lil poopendorfer posted:

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

yook posted:

It’s been pretty gratifying to finally see it from someone after waiting so long for the Democrats to pick up on it. I’m wondering if they still haven’t done it because they still somehow believe in decorum and bipartisanship despite everything or some political consultant said those voters are unreachable and positive ads help more with motivating the base.

Mithaldu posted:

Particularly in the case of the EMT transporting 1-4 covid patient per hour, for days, on 12hr+ shifts, with only very basic small plastic glasses, a cheap N95 mask that they get used, use for an entire day, return it for cleaning, and had to beg to get an extra new one when a strap broke, and has not seen any hazard pay since the thing started, and will not get their covid infection covered by work unless they can prove they got it at work. (So never.)

quote:

https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/journal-scans/2020/05/18/13/42/variation-in-false-negative-rate-of-reverse
The false-negative rate for SARS-CoV-2 RT-PCR testing is highly variable: highest within the first 5 days after exposure (up to 67%), and lowest on day 8 after exposure (21%).

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Here in Melbourne it was the first day of the compulsory mask rule coming into effect and it looks like it went really smoothly. My housemate went out earlier in the day and said he only saw one person who wasn't wearing a mask, I went out at 11pm to go to the supermarket and even though there were hardly any people on the street they were all wearing masks still. Every single customer at the supermarket was also in a mask (except for a very young girl, and kids that age are exempt) and all the staff had masks but a few had them pulled down below their noses.


Also our ICUs are apparently having an 85% survival rate, compared to 60% in the UK and 30% in the US
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg_lHHHBcW0

20 Blunts posted:

goons, i feel dumb as gently caress

in terms of quarantine, i can count on one hand the people ive come into direct contact with since March, and I've been wearing a mask but I've been wearing one of these:

https://rzmask.com/collections/m2-5-masks

there is a carbon filter within these masks between the wearer and the valve, but apparently these only protect the wearer, not others. in terms of actual "exhaust" coming from my mouth it doesn't seem like much gets out at all but I don't know. Would a strip of cloth over the valves make these acceptable? ughhh i feel loving stupid.

Illuminti posted:

Is that mask better than a disposable one? Most likely, in which case you are doing the right thing. Don't beat yourself up for doing the right thing.

Your isolating is doing far more to prevent the spread, your perfectly acceptable mask is just the cherry on top.

Illuminti posted:

I was quite pleased to see nearly everyone in Melbourne taking up mask wearing quite happily. I saw a couple of tradies on construction sites using their masks as a beard holder but most of them were using them properly. Was quite shocked to see more than a few people with their noses out. Also have a friend, a person with two degrees, wearing one with her nose out....she seemed too genuinely not know that wasn't how you wore them. Baffling. It's one of those things you encounter occasionally where I literally cannot fathom how you could not know it. Like even if you've never worn, talked about or met anyone wearing a face mask, surely just by osmosis and exposure to life in general you would know it goes over the nose as well as the mouth. You've never seen a doctor in tv wearing a mask? You've not seen a news report in the last six months? Anyway.....she is wearing it correctly now.

Also saw one dude rocking a full steam punk bioshock outfit and gas mask. Looked cool but I doubt he could see poo poo when he was crossing the road.

Is that mask better than a disposable one? Most likely, in which case you are doing the right thing. Don't beat yourself up for doing the right thing.

Your isolating is doing far more to prevent the spread, your perfectly acceptable mask is just the cherry on top.

Illuminti posted:

But SARS wasn't a big deal except for 800 people who died. China loses 700 people a day in traffic accidents. It was a big deal for 24 hour news and mask manufacturers.

If an equivalent of Spanish Flu arose today it wouldn't make a loving dent. Sorry, but virus's missed their chance.

If fun to doomsday about a killer virus but frankly I don't see it happening. Swine Flu will be worse than this and most people didn't know anything about it while it was happening

bird with big dick posted:

20 Blunts posted:

I think the material its made out of is excellent, yes, its just the valves on it. They say on their website that this mask filters air coming in, but not air coming out.

Still, when I breathe out with this mask on I feel no exhaust, and I would think that the sheer thickness of the mask + carbon filter is comparable to the plethora of cheap cloth masks I see out there?

Can I just plug the valves and feel better about this?

Anne Whateley posted:

Plugging the valves won't feel good because it's designed to have you breathing out through the valves. Just put a cloth mask or surgical mask on over it. Anecdotally, I can tell you that's what medical professionals are doing here (plus face shields)

Polio Vax Scene posted:

i got the covid and died from it, op

Mithaldu posted:

We're mostly agreed. And thanks.
Decon workflows a valid concern too. Though i'm curious. The main issue with n95 in decon is they can't get seriously wet. I'm probably overlooking something, but isn't a mask you can dunk in a soap bath and hang out to dry and be sure it's safe much preferrable?

bird with big dick posted:

You’ve been saying dumb poo poo this entire thread and you’re still doing it and you should shut the gently caress up.

The notion that a mask with exhalation valves is “most likely” better than a disposable N95 is moronic and you are a moron.

astral posted:

If anyone is still hunting for some disinfectant spray, you can place an order for this one for shipping on/around August 8:

https://www.amazon.com/Windex-Multi-Surface-Disinfectant-Cleaner-Fluid-Ounce/dp/B01GFLZ46W/

Illuminti posted:

Oh shut the gently caress up you insufferable prick

JesusFists posted:

GRECOROMANGRABASS posted:

Unemployment in Florida maxes out at $275 a week. Florida is also unique in that it cuts off unemployment benefits after 12 weeks. Every other state provides 26+ weeks of coverage.

20 Blunts posted:

I think the material its made out of is excellent, yes, its just the valves on it. They say on their website that this mask filters air coming in, but not air coming out.

Still, when I breathe out with this mask on I feel no exhaust, and I would think that the sheer thickness of the mask + carbon filter is comparable to the plethora of cheap cloth masks I see out there?

Can I just plug the valves and feel better about this?

quote:

Can the valve on a respirator result in the release of particles containing germs if the wearer is infected with a disease that spreads through the air?
Currently, 3M is not aware of any studies on whether airborne germs exit a respirator through the exhalation valve. To date, no guidance has been issued by the CDC, WHO, or NIOSH on this issue.
Government-certified/approved respirators such as N95, FFP2, KN95, and similar are designed to help reduce the wearer’s exposure to airborne contaminants. In addition, the breathing rate of people during normal or sedentary work is relatively low. As a result, the valve on a filtering
facepiece respirator would not be expected to open very far during exhalation, which would create only a limited path for the large aerosols expelled by the wearer to navigate. Particle physics predicts that at least some of the wearer-generated aerosols would impact on the back of the valve instead of exiting out through the valve opening.

Since there have been no published studies on this topic, it cannot be definitively said that no virus-containing aerosols expelled by a wearer would exit the respirator through the exhalation valve.
Note that surgical masks, procedural masks and face coverings – which are often worn to control the spread of infectious diseases – are not designed to fit tightly to the face and have gaps around the face through which air will leak both inward when the wearer inhales and outward when the wearer exhales, potentially including expelled particles.

Should tape be placed over the exhalation valve of respirators to help protect the surrounding environment from exhaled air?
Taping over or otherwise covering a respirator valve voids the regulatory approval and may impact how the respirator functions. 3M does not recommend altering respirators that are worn for the purpose of reducing wearer exposure to airborne
hazards.
3M respirators are intended to help protect the wearer. They do this by helping reduce the wearer’s exposure to airborne contaminants. When properly selected and worn, 3M respirators are safe and effective for this use. This includes 3M respirators with valves. Exhalation valves help reduce breathing resistance when the wearer exhales (breathes out). Those valves open only when the wearer exhales, helping air exit the respirator. Currently 3M is not aware of any studies on the risk of infectious material exiting through the exhalation valve of respirators.

quote:

While a valve does not change a respirator’s ability to help reduce a wearer’s exposure to bioaerosols, it is not recommended that a person who is exhibiting symptoms of illness wear a valved respirator, because there is a possibility that exhaled particles may leave the respirator via the valve opening and enter the surrounding environment, potentially spreading the disease.

bird with big dick posted:

I’ll shut up when you stop saying poo poo that is objectively stupid and false you cretin. I.e. never.

zer0spunk posted:

i like this chart but i wish it was more nuanced and not like a bad character selection screen from a shovelware fighting game

nocal posted:

Activate carbon, stop odor? Yes what a chart

zer0spunk posted:

if it makes you feel any better this is what 3m says about valves


from their document revised june 2020
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1791526O/respiratory-protection-faq-general-public-tb.pdf

Duck and Cover posted:

EXCUSE me I'm an internet expert and have heard valves bad. So valves are bad and I preach that even without any studies to back myself up. Also masks don't work. Masks are super hard to properly fit and well beyond the abilities of people.

unpacked robinhood posted:

Exhaust valves shouldn't be used don't be loving dense

zer0spunk posted:

3ms stance is basically "valves are most likely bad but none of y'all have proven it so your call bros" which is annoying to be honest

quote:

In what settings could elastomeric respirators be considered an alternative to disposable N95 respirators?

Elastomeric half-mask and full facepiece respirators with N95 or higher particulate filters can be considered as options for respiratory protection of healthcare personnel in certain settings where N95 respirators are not available. While there is little accumulated experience with their use in patient care settings, they do offer some advantages over disposable N95 respirators, including greater durability and their ability to be cleaned and re-used by the same user or by multiple users. In addition, full facepiece respirators offer a greater level of respiratory protection, as well as eye protection. Disadvantages in healthcare settings include the lack of healthcare personnel experienced in their use; the need for devices to be routinely inspected, cleaned, and disinfected; interference with communication with patients and coworkers and the presence of exhalation valves precluding their use in sterile fields. Effective communication with patients and other personnel is also generally limited when wearing these devices. Although elastomeric respirators may not be a practical option for use in many patient care settings, their use even in limited situations, such as aerosol-generating procedures and in clinical laboratory settings would increase the supply of disposable N95 respirators for other uses.

Illuminti posted:

I was mistaken, but I was at least being pleasant.

zer0spunk posted:

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

Well there's a number of considerations. For one, yes not being able to get disposable N95s wet was an issue for decontamination. Heat was another. One of the most common ways of decontaminating things in a hospital is steam sterilization, typically at 121°C or 132°C. Both the moisture and temperatures that high could have compromised the masks. I could imagine this being an issue with some reusable respirators as well, as 132°C IIRC is above or near the limits of the temperatures that some synthetic rubbers can handle.The more common methods I've seen with the disposable N95s are either gently "blooming" the mask and then using a couple big industrial UV-C lamps to blast rows of them at a time or some variation of hydrogen peroxide vapor sterilization. As far as "being sure it's safe", it'd never be as simple as dunking it in a soap bath and hanging it out to dry. I mean you don't just dunk your hands in soapy water when you're washing them. Air pockets, bubbles, little crevices, that sort of thing. Do you gently scrub it to get in the cracks? Rotate it around in the bath? Don't forget you want as little manual involvement as possible by the technician decontaminating things to lower their infection risk. Does it kill other pathogens? That's actually a big issue. Let's not forget that HCWs may be dealing with more than just COVID, so if you're decontaminating things it has to get it all (presumably you're not throwing out the big reusable masks every time they're "visibly soiled" like a lot of the N95 decontamination protocols called for). I'm not sure how well UV-C would work on those since they generally can't be flattened out, but let's say for the sake of argument some sort of hydrogen peroxide vapor setup worked. Whatever process you use, you're likely having to build some sort of new ad-hoc facility to decontaminate things if they can't go through the "normal" sterilization methods and need to be done in large batches.

So then you've got the issue of volume. How many masks would, say, an average nurse need? One likely isn't enough, since it'd be hard to guarantee that an entire shift's worth could be decontaminated overnight. Are the masks "assigned" to each HCW? Or after decontamination to they go back into a general pool and you just get them reassigned as if they're "fresh" (this was not a popular idea with the HCWs by the way). Let's assume they're assigned then. So now I need to collect, transport, sterilize, track, and store multiple masks per nurse. That's a nightmare in terms of logistics. Can you even purchase them in the volumes you'd need right now?

But here's the other thing, a big issue with repeated decontamination like that is if I'm a HCW, how much trust do I have in a repeated process where if a step goes wrong I get COVID? A disposable mask? If it gets all COVID covered from a patient, as long as I safely doff it (which when done incorrectly is a key point of potential infection) then it just goes in the trash and I'm not worrying about what was on it. But a mask being repeatedly decontaminated on a daily basis? What if something gets missed in the process? What if a spot gets missed and a bit of the virus survives? Like even the idea of reusing a mask *once* was a bridge too far for some, and now you're telling them they have to trust that not only is the process getting *everything* every time, but that it's not weakening the seal somehow or reducing the effectiveness of the filter?

Long story short it's a hell of a challenge and a real morale hit even with limited decontamination of disposable N95s. Relying exclusively on a similar process for big reusable respirators really wasn't considered practical. Even decontaminating the disposables was viewed as a last ditch effort to save time until more disposables could be obtained.

unpacked robinhood posted:

Any pointers for KN95 masks in europe ? Amazon is a deluge of bullshit.