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Jul 21, 2020 02:03
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| # ? May 23, 2024 18:53 |
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Why is everyone suddenly considering bella useless because shes a newborn? Newborns were like the super strong oh-so-scary big threat before! Shouldnt bella be their biggest asset in a fight right now, even if they dont have time to train her fully??
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Jul 21, 2020 02:47
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Lysistrata posted:Why is everyone suddenly considering bella useless because shes a newborn? Newborns were like the super strong oh-so-scary big threat before! Shouldnt bella be their biggest asset in a fight right now, even if they dont have time to train her fully??
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Jul 21, 2020 03:33
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PetraCore posted:Bella is like, well, pretty impulsive but at the exact same level she was before, she doesn't have the mental issues and she's all pumped up on her own blood, so. Exactly! The logical thing to do would be to teach her to fight as much as they could, she's a gigantic asset. She's got the newborn strength, she's got perfect control of her vampire "instincts", and she's immune to the mental powers that would incapacitate anyone else. She should be the frontline defense here! Of course, Meyer handwaves all that and declares her useless because ~bella is a girl and therefore it is her job to be protected~.
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Jul 21, 2020 03:39
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Lysistrata posted:Why is everyone suddenly considering bella useless because shes a newborn? Newborns were like the super strong oh-so-scary big threat before! Shouldnt bella be their biggest asset in a fight right now, even if they dont have time to train her fully?? The Cullens have lost virtually all of their coolness from the past books, and the only explanation I can come up with is that it's once again Meyer refusing to change her Forever Dawn draft to really fit with her old canon. When the Cullens found out that Victoria had a newborn army coming to Forks, they immediately began coming up with a plan and training themselves and the Quileute for a fight. They ended up absolutely curbstomping the army because of it despite being massively outnumbered. When they hear the Volturi are coming, they're completely frozen with terror for hours if a psychic can't tell them how to win. In Forever Dawn, the fight with James is the only fight the Cullens have had on the page. There's no details about Jasper's time as a hardcore newborn army commander and nothing of the Cullens repeatedly telling Bella "I promise we have this handled" while she cries about how they must be in terrible danger and tries to impulsively sacrifice herself for no reason. When Meyer originally wrote this, this was the introduction to the Volturi. As lovely as it is introducing them and providing all of this exposition without them showing up until the ending, we have no reason not to believe everything we're told. With the context of two books before it, it looks like the Cullens have gone from one of the most powerful covens in the world to a bunch of cowards who can't take on more than one vampire at a time. It also doesn't mesh with even the first book. When Bella was in danger of James, they stormed the building and tore him apart before Carlisle coolly determined a way for Edward to save Bella. Now they're completely incapable of functioning when in danger and Edward has reacted to the stress by completely dissociating and deciding that there's no choice but to let his entire family die if it comes down to a fight. By the way, that "If." typo is in the print copy of the book. I guess the proofreaders had more trouble getting through it than I did.
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Jul 21, 2020 04:59
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I don’t see it as a typo.
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Jul 21, 2020 10:58
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Did you mean “if” is misprinted as “is?” Is it just me or is Edward becoming less of a presence in the story? I always felt once Bella became a vampire the focus on Edward disappeared since Edward wasn’t what Bella wanted, but vampirism, at least that’s how it reads to me because while I often feel I can pick out Meyer’s intent she almost never ends up with the result due to Bella’s introspection and Meyer’s word choice.
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Jul 21, 2020 14:44
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Up Circle posted:I don’t see it as a typo. I read again and you're right. It's such a bad word placement that I thought it was an accident.
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Jul 21, 2020 15:24
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:Did you mean “if” is misprinted as “is?” I also noticed that Jake fades into the background the second the love triangle is resolved. It goes from "oh thank god I have my best friend in my life forever!" to "cool, free babysitter." I don't think they ever hang out together or have a real conversation for the rest of the book. It's almost as if he was a one-dimensional plot device or something.
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Jul 21, 2020 15:29
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I think it's that he now has the, ugh, love of his life in the form of an infant and Bella is married. Without the possibility of boning men and women simply have nothing in common to engender spending time together.
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Jul 21, 2020 16:00
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I believe Jacob was even more of a non-entity in Forever Dawn. Because he never had the "love triangle" and two books of angst, he never lost his chipper status as Bella's generic best friend. No drama, no POV segments. He just exists to be a cool werewolf babysitter for Renesmee. On the other hand, this does mean that we wouldn't have had Bella constantly insisting that the man who repeatedly assaults her (both sexually and physically), fights with her in every conversation, and once attempts to murder her is her best friend that she can never lose.
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Jul 21, 2020 16:37
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quote:“Tanya shouldn’t be too much longer,” Edward said. “We need to be ready.” Remember that vampires should be able to hear and smell Renesmee no matter where she's hidden in the house. quote:In the end, Renesmee, Jacob—in his human form again—and I waited around the corner from the front door in the dining room, sitting at the big polished table. Jacob let me hold Renesmee; he wanted space in case he had to phase quickly. Remember how when surprised she instinctually did a perfect backflip off a table to pose dramatically against the wall? She's already got fighting superpowers. quote:I tried to remember Tanya, Kate, Carmen, and Eleazar from the wedding. Their faces were murky in my ill-lit memories. I only knew they were beautiful, two blondes and two brunettes. I couldn’t remember if there was any kindness in their eyes. Once again, they can hear all the way to the highway from their house. This is a normal level for vampires to be at. And Renesmee has a beating heart and smell that they naturally use to hunt. From miles away. quote:Renesmee nestled into my neck, her hand against my cheek but no images in my head. She didn’t have pictures for her feelings now. The demon speaks! quote:“Of course they’ll—,” Jacob started to say, but I silenced him with a look. We now have dueling Mary Sues. quote:She shook her head in disagreement. She thought of our strained faces and said, “This is my fault.” Someone tally up how many hours are spent in this book just staring. quote:The car moved quickly through the woods, faster than Charlie or Sue drove. We heard it pull into the meadow and stop by the front porch. Four doors opened and closed. They didn’t speak as they approached the door. Edward opened it before they could knock. "In a sexual manner." quote:A woman chuckled. Last time someone in this book said that, he began stripping naked on the spot. quote:“Is Carlisle all right?” a male voice asked anxiously. Eleazar. None of us are all right, Edward. quote:“Physically?” Tanya asked sharply. “What do you mean?” More staring. quote:“We’re listening,” Tanya finally said. “We will hear it all before we judge.” Good job admitting to them that you were involving them in your possible crime without their permission! quote:Edward moved. We heard four sets of footsteps walk through the doorway. Imagine trying to explain to the Denali what the gently caress has been happening in the plot since they left. quote:The reminder silenced Tanya. Meyer is still using the "Bella pretends to be asleep" device to have scenes occur without her, only through super hearing instead. quote:Edward took a deep breath. “I’d like you to witness for yourselves first. Listen—in the other room. What do you hear?” A heartbeat as fast as a bird's would put Renesmee's resting heart rate around 400 BPM. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt69D9qen5o At this point it would be better if Meyer just said magic is real, because her vague attempts at handwaving unknown science as the cause of everything fall apart immediately with poo poo like this. Renesmee is an overheating perpetual motion machine. quote:“No, but remember what you’re hearing. Now, what do you smell? Besides the werewolf.” This is the book now firmly establishing everything that I've said before: it takes a vampire mere seconds to figure out that Renesmee isn't a vampire even when not in the same room as her. The only possible explanation we can have now for their fear is "vampires are extremely impulsive and stupid and resort to violence immediately if given the chance." Which is a really great characterization for your super beautiful and perfect family that you threw away everything to join! quote:“You most certainly have not, Tanya. Please, please remember that this is something entirely new to you. Throw away your preconceived notions.” So instead of outright saying "We've discovered proof that vampires and humans can breed, I promise I'm not showing you an immortal child in a second", he's being mysterious and dramatic. Let's see how that pans out! quote:“I promised you I would listen, Edward.” For once, I'm on Jacob's side. They've just been shown something that is very clearly not a vampire and they're still reacting to Renesmee by flinging themselves across the room and hissing like cats. quote:Edward put his arm around Renesmee and me. “You promised to listen,” he reminded them. So yes, vampires are that dumb and impulsive. Maybe their fear of the Volturi makes sense now. When Bella was (correctly) insisting that Renesmee clearly shows no signs of vampirism and it should be incredibly obvious that she's not an immortal child, she got blown off because "the Volturi just won't care." Now I think they were right. They would just ignore everything to commit violence. quote:“Her heartbeat?” Carmen whispered, peering around Eleazar’s shoulder.  Eleazar, who comes from 18th century Spain, was played by Christian Camargo. He had previously appeared in the famous role of Brian on Dexter and would later guest star as Dracula on Penny Dreadful, presumably fearing that he was typecast all the while. He's also a major stage actor, having been part of the inaugural Globe Theatre cast upon the replica's opening in 1997 and appearing in the 2013 Broadway production of Romeo & Juliet as Mercutio. quote:“How?” Kate breathed. Casual reminder that most of this book's cast is actually murderers. quote:“Come now, Eleazar. Surely you can see the resemblance.” "Her features are literally half and half." quote:It was Carmen who responded to Edward’s words. She stepped around Eleazar, ignoring his half-articulated warning, and walked carefully to stand right in front of me. She leaned down slightly, looking carefully into Renesmee’s face. You called it with the "Renesmee will just look like Edward" joke! quote:Renesmee’s answering smile was dazzling. She touched my face without looking away from Carmen. She imagined touching Carmen’s face, wondering if that was okay. No, she's too good for your primitive forms of communication. quote:“Yes,” Renesmee answered in her trilling high soprano. All of Tanya’s family flinched at the sound of her voice except for Carmen. “But I can show you more than I can tell you.” Including all the strange noises you hear coming from mommy and daddy's bedroom at night? quote:Another minute passed, and Renesmee dropped her hand from Carmen’s face. She smiled winningly at the stunned vampire. We can still shift this to a horror book at any time! quote:Eleazar’s face was rigid with distress. “Carmen!” This is the second time a character's face has been described as "rigid" with a particular emotion and I don't think it means what she thinks it means. quote:Carmen took his hands into her own and squeezed them. “Impossible as it seems, Edward has told you nothing but truth. Let the child show you.” Because Eleazar and Carmen are Spanish, they're obligated to randomly thrown in Google Translate Spanish when they talk. Never mind that no other vampire of a foreign origin does this or even has a noticeable accent. They're our Spanish speakers, so they get to be the obligatory Spicy Latin Couple. quote:“What did she do to you?” Tanya demanded, coming closer warily. Kate crept forward, too. Isn't it convenient for our "We need to convince our allies to join our side and convince the bad guys not to harm us" plot that we not only have a child who can transmit her memories into anyone's mind by touch, but a Volturi member who can touch anyone and instantly see all of their memories? Gee, I wonder how that will play out? quote:Eleazar eyed her suspiciously and then glanced at Carmen for help. She nodded encouragingly. Eleazar took a deep breath and then leaned closer until his forehead touched her hand again. This scene is a double whammy of bad writing decisions because you can find two different flaws depending on where you come at it from. The first is that it assumes that Renesmee is always telling the truth. These vampires have all had thoughts projected into their minds and immediately taken them as absolute fact, rather than thinking they could be some kind of manipulation. None of them question if they might be getting tricked, because Renesmee is the most perfectly good and pure child in the world and must be loved and trusted instantly by everyone. This certainly has no connection at all to the previously stated fact that immortal children are notorious for having the power to force their creators to love them to the point of violently protecting them even as they slaughter whole villages! The second is that if you do assume this is true, that there's some special aspect of Renesmee's power that imparts on people that it truly is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then combined with her audible heartbeat and warm, non-sparkling skin it makes the Denali coven (and vampires in general) look even more awful. Because they had both solid evidence that she wasn't a vampire right in front of them and the ability to instantly have all of the truth imparted into their minds, and yet their first reaction was to leap around the room screaming in horror and hissing like a cornered cat to the point where they were ignoring things right in front of them. Edward's insistence on drama instead of explaining poo poo certainly didn't help, but it makes you wonder how they react to seeing normal human children around vampires. This book is one of the most impressive clusterfucks of bad writing that I've encountered. I've read a lot of bad books, but this is fractal badness. It's got holes like a cheese grater, with something wrong in a new way every time you look at it differently. You come up with a plausible explanation for one interpretation, and it immediately causes problems with prior or future pages. quote:I shot a glance at Edward’s smooth face, wondering if it could really be so easy. His golden eyes were clear, unshadowed. There was no deception in this, then. How does that make any kind of sense? Do people normally take on a mysterious shadowy expression when they're lying? quote:“Thank you for listening,” he said quietly. “But there is the grave danger you warned us of,” Tanya said. “Not directly from this child, I see, but surely from the Volturi, then. How did they find out about her? When are they coming?” Yes, we get it, the Cullens are the most perfect badasses (when the plot demands it, otherwise they're suddenly dumb and frozen). quote:“When Bella saw Irina that day in the mountains,” Edward explained, “she had Renesmee with her.” You just said it was the Volturi, guys. quote:“No,” Tanya whispered. “Someone else…” People don't "wince" when they say a name. This kind of writing must be what inspired Robert Pattinson's performance, twisting his face and jaw all around like he's having sandpaper rubbed on his toenails whenever he speaks. quote:“How could she do this thing?” Eleazar asked of no one. Seriously, is this not a first draft? How did she get away with sentences like this? quote:“Imagine if you had seen Renesmee only from a distance. If you had not waited for our explanation.” A distance that, as has been repeatedly established, is nothing to a vampire. quote:Tanya’s eyes tightened. “No matter what she thought… You are our family.” Remember how the Denali refused to help the Cullens fight the newborn army and was just going to let them die because they allied with the people who killed Irina's boyfriend? Because he was trying to eat Edward's girlfriend? quote:“There’s nothing we can do about Irina’s choice now. It’s too late. Alice gave us a month.” It takes an entire month to do that? Are they sending letters by horseback courier? quote:Shock glazed over all their eyes. "We all sat there for the next 2 days." quote:“Impossible,” Eleazar said blankly. Ah, I see we're starting on Fifty Shades early. quote:“Where are the others, Edward? Carlisle and Alice and the rest?” Tanya asked. I swear, becoming a vampire really does infuse you with drama. quote:Edward shook his head quickly. “We’re not asking you to fight and die with us, Tanya. You know Carlisle would never ask for that.” Okay but if the Volturi are really as impulsive as every other vampire and would just swoop in and decapitate all the Cullens without even checking if Renesmee has a pulse, wouldn't they also kill all the people who showed up to help advocate for the "immortal child"? quote:Tanya nodded slowly. “Do you think her past will matter to them so much?” "Who I repeatedly bite hard enough to draw blood and laugh at." quote:Tanya and Kate exchanged a quick glance. Vampires haven't had the best track record with evidence so far! quote:“Yes, we can witness for you,” Tanya said. “Certainly that much. We will consider what more we might do.” "Unless it might make Irina sad. Then we'll text you that we're not coming." quote:“I, too, will do what I can to protect the child,” Carmen agreed. Then, as if she couldn’t resist, she held her arms out toward Renesmee. “May I hold you, bebé linda?” Renesmee instantly learns Spanish on the spot. quote:It was like it had been with Charlie, and before that with all the Cullens. Renesmee was irresistible. What was it about her that drew everyone to her, that made them willing even to pledge their lives in her defense? gently caress off. "How will I handle criticism of my writing? I know! I'll have my characters call it out and wonder why it's happening!" quote:For a moment I thought that maybe what we were attempting might be possible. Maybe Renesmee could do the impossible and win over our enemies as she had our friends. chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 22, 2020 14:52
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Hey, want to play a fun game? Read back through that and try to spot how many times Bella actually speaks to the Denali. How much she's involved with "the hardest job of them all."
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Jul 22, 2020 15:55
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quote:Jacob let me hold Renesmee; he wanted space in case he had to phase quickly. So glad he let her mother hold his child bride. quote:“Of course they’ll—,” Jacob started to say, but I silenced him with a look. The only thing healthier than being raised by your future husband (  ) is being constantly sheltered because he'll only tell you what you want to hear. No matter what kind of danger that puts you in!
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Jul 22, 2020 16:41
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Chapter 31: Talentedquote:“What is the werewolves' part in this?" Tanya asked then, eyeing Jacob. I don't know what's worse: Edward's insistence on speaking over everyone like he's the boss, or Bella still bitching about the nickname. quote:“Very brave, child, but that would be impossible for more experienced fighters than you are.” Remember that in Forever Dawn, we've never seen any of the Cullens or werewolves' fighting abilities. The Volturi are the first threat they've faced other than James, so Meyer can simply tell the audience that they're ultra-powerful and unstoppable. quote:Jacob’s eyes flickered to Renesmee—still in Carmen’s arms with Kate hovering over them—and it was easy to read the longing in them. "Isabella quote:“Excuse me,” Edward said in a stunned voice. He reached out and caught Eleazar’s shoulder as he was about to turn again for the door. “What did you just call my wife?” There you go. 74% of the way through the final book, Meyer finally gives an explanation for why some vampire powers don't work on her. Something that was almost certainly a simple plot device in the first book without any intention of explaining it. The brief explanation for Eleazar "having to concentrate more with humans than vampires" is the quick throwaway line justifying why he never caught on at the wedding, despite her having such a powerful talent that it can manifest unconsciously. quote:I frowned. “What are you talking about? How can I be a shield? What does that even mean?” All I could picture in my head was a ridiculous medieval suit of armor. So you don't even picture a shield? quote:Eleazar leaned his head to one side as he examined me. “I suppose we were overly formal about it in the guard. In truth, categorizing talents is a subjective, haphazard business; every talent is unique, never exactly the same thing twice. But you, Bella, are fairly easy to classify. Talents that are purely defensive, that protect some aspect of the bearer, are always called shields. Have you ever tested your abilities? Blocked anyone besides me and your mate?” You've done it before! You did it to Aro and Jane in New Moon! Your brain is working slower than mine! quote:“It only works with certain things,” I told him. “My head is sort of… private. But it doesn’t stop Jasper from being able to mess with my mood or Alice from seeing my future.” Almost like the author only wrote her as blocking Edward specifically and had to scramble to come up with explanations for her plot holes! quote:“Aro couldn’t hear her,” Edward interjected. “Though she was human when they met.” Wait, so you knew this was a power that existed and just never questioned Bella? quote:Eleazar had recovered slightly. “Yes, no talent ever manifests in precisely the same way, because no one ever thinks in exactly the same way.” The one in the random sundress? quote:“I wonder…,” Eleazar mused. “You see, Renata is a powerful shield against a physical attack. If someone approaches her—or Aro, as she is always close beside him in a hostile situation—they find themselves… diverted. There’s a force around her that repels, though it’s almost unnoticeable. You simply find yourself going a different direction than you planned, with a confused memory as to why you wanted to go that other way in the first place. She can project her shield several meters out from herself. She also protects Caius and Marcus, too, when they have a need, but Aro is her priority. Thank you, obnoxious demon. quote:I felt disoriented. Didn’t I already know my gift? I had my super-self-control that had allowed me to skip right over the horrifying newborn year. Vampires only had one extra ability at most, right? You know, I think there is! quote:“Can you project?” Kate asked interestedly. Well we don't have centuries, so of course she'll just become an expert within days. quote:I stared at her, mystified. My "I don't sadistically torture people" shirt is raising a lot of questions already answered by my shirt. quote:Kate’s words were sinking in, beginning to make connections in my mind. Shield someone besides yourself, she’d said. As if there were some way for me to include another person in my strange, quirky silent head. Silent, completely devoid of thought. quote:I remembered Edward cringing on the ancient stones of the Volturi castle turret. Though this was a human memory, it was sharper, more painful than most of the others—like it had been branded into the tissues of my brain. What if I could stop that from happening ever again? What if I could protect him? Protect Renesmee? What if there was even the faintest glimmer of a possibility that I could shield them, too? Bella goes from passively standing around to leaping at people and breaking their arms in a single bound! quote:“You’re shielding, all right,” Kate said. “That move should have about shocked your arm off. You didn’t feel anything just now?” Hang on. Kate said she "passes a current over her skin." That implies actual electricity, right? Bella's a mental shield. Jasper and Alice's powers explicitly work on her! Is she tasing people with her mind? Is Meyer the worst goddamn writer? Who knows! quote:“That wasn’t really necessary, Kate. She didn’t mean any harm,” Edward muttered under his breath. Neither of us paid attention to him. But she did do harm! What, Bella gets a pass on involuntary usage of her powers but Kate doesn't in self-defense? quote:“No, I didn’t feel anything. Were you doing your electric current thing?” She just told you! Seriously, has the IQ in the room dropped to loving 2? quote:“I was. Hmm. I’ve never met anyone who couldn’t feel it, immortal or otherwise.” Thank you, now shut up. quote:“But after a lot of practice, I can radiate the current all over my body. It’s a good defense. Anyone who tries to touch me drops like a human that’s been Tasered. It only downs him for a second, but that’s long enough.” That sounds like it would make you really overpowered in a fight! quote:I was only half-listening to Kate, my thoughts racing around the idea that I might be able to protect my little family if I could just learn fast enough. I wished fervently that I might be good at this projecting thing, too, like I was somehow mysteriously good at all the other aspects of being a vampire. My human life had not prepared me for things that came naturally, and I couldn’t make myself trust this aptitude to last. Just because you have your characters speak aloud their problems with the plot doesn't mean it stops being a problem. I've seen much better books that do the same thing. You know why they're better? Because they acknowledge how strangely convenient it all is and craft an explanation for it. quote:It felt like I had never wanted anything so badly before this: to be able to protect what I loved. Remember when she used to want vampire powers so he could hurt people? quote:Because I was so preoccupied, I didn’t notice the silent exchange going on between Edward and Eleazar until it became a spoken conversation. What "silent conversation"? Eleazar isn't telepathic. Were they just staring at each other? quote:“Can you think of even one exception, though?” Edward asked. I looked over to make sense of his comment and realized that everyone else was already staring at the two men. They were leaning toward each other intently, Edward’s expression tight with suspicion, Eleazar’s unhappy and reluctant. How is Eleazar mixing up thoughts? Did Meyer just forget which of the E names was telepathic? quote:“Your intentions were always the best, Eleazar.” Nobody talks like this. quote:“Oh, haven’t I?” Eleazar muttered. Then he shrugged out from under her hand and began his pacing again, faster even than before. Human fast or vampire fast? Is he bolting from wall to wall at the speed of sound? quote:Tanya watched him for half a second and then focused on Edward. “Explain.” In the same sentence you said the Cullens are the biggest mature coven they've dealt with, then said that other covens have banded together to fight the Volturi. Which is it? The answer is "plot hole." The Illustrated Guide, which Meyer actually wrote herself, said that the Romanian coven at one point had over one hundred members, which Alec and Jane wiped out by themselves. So not only have there been covens far larger and stronger than the Cullens even with every ally they can find, there's no actual need for the Volturi to deploy their entire guard when only two of them are supposedly enough to take down an army. quote:“He was remembering other times that covens have been punished, for one thing or the other, and a pattern occurred to him. It was a pattern that the rest of the guard would never have noticed, since Eleazar was the one passing the pertinent intelligence privately to Aro. A pattern that only repeated every other century or so.” Every other century, except Eleazar was turned in the 18th century. So there's no "pattern" for him to have seen. At most, this would be the second time he's seen this happen. The Illustrated Guide is plot hole city in general. Breaking Dawn is obviously extremely poorly written, but the guide tries to explain the backstory of every single vampire and exactly when and where they were transformed, as well as providing "scientific" explanations for vampirism. It ends up causing tons of problems as Meyer ignores or forgets her previous writing and tries establishing new canon that doesn't fit. quote:“What was this pattern?” Carmen asked, watching Eleazar as Edward was. Seeing the Volturi in the previous two books really ruins this, because we've already established the Volturi as relatively reasonable with an important place in the continuing existence of their species. Because we're in Forever Dawn, the Volturi are now totally evil. quote:“It must be a heady thing to be chosen,” Kate suggested. Yes, that is another new character in the same chapter! With a major power that we weren't told about! quote:Eleazar came to an abrupt halt. “We all understood why Chelsea was important. In a fight, if we could separate allegiances between allied covens, we could defeat them that much more easily. If we could distance the innocent members of a coven emotionally from the guilty, justice could be done without unnecessary brutality—the guilty could be punished without interference, and the innocent could be spared. Otherwise, it was impossible to keep the coven from fighting as a whole. So Chelsea would break the ties that bound them together. It seemed a great kindness to me, evidence of Aro’s mercy. I did suspect that Chelsea kept our own band more tightly knit, but that, too, was a good thing. It made us more effective. It helped us coexist more easily.” Brainwashing: famous good thing. quote:This clarified old memories for me. It had not made sense to me before how the guard obeyed their masters so gladly, with almost lover-like devotion. That never happened. Go back to the last two books and you'll never see Bella commenting on that. quote:“How strong is her gift?” Tanya asked with an edge to her voice. Her gaze quickly touched on each member of her family. First thing: Eleazar has been part of the Denali coven for a very long time, possibly over 100 years, and has never once talked to the rest of the coven about the Volturi guard. Second: Eleazar has no actual way of knowing whether this is true, because he hasn't seen Chelsea use her powers on vegetarian vampires. quote:Tanya nodded, seeming reassured, while Eleazar continued with his analysis. “I could only think that the reason Aro had decided to come himself, to bring so many with him, is because his goal is not punishment but acquisition,” Eleazar said. “He needs to be there to control the situation. But he needs the entire guard for protection from such a large, gifted coven. On the other hand, that leaves the other ancients unprotected in Volterra. Too risky—someone might try to take advantage. So they all come together. How else could he be sure to preserve the gifts that he wants? He must want them very badly,” Eleazar mused. But he had two vampires wipe out a coven of over a hundred! Why does he need this much protection? Oh, right. Because Meyer wrote the Illustrated Guide over 5 years after she wrote Forever Dawn and didn't want to look back at anything to make sure the new canon made sense. quote:Edward’s voice was low as a breath. “From what I saw of his thoughts last spring, Aro’s never wanted anything more than he wants Alice.” So they've known for over a year that Aro wanted Alice for his coven. They've characterized him as a perverse collector of rare powers. Eleazar had been with the Volturi for years and is familiar with their methods; he even personally worked for them as their magic-people-finder. And they have just now put together that maybe this is why the Volturi are showing up. Why didn't Alice actually put that in her note? Who knows! quote:“He wants you, too,” I whispered. He has a member who specifically exists to brainwash people into becoming Volturi. quote:Eleazar frowned at Edward’s nonchalance. “He also knows your weaknesses,” Eleazar pointed out, and then he looked at me. Yes, both members of our loving couple would instantly throw away all of their morals and loved ones just to keep the other from dying. quote:Edward changed the subject. “I think the Volturi were waiting for this—for some pretext. They couldn’t know what form their excuse would come in, but the plan was already in place for when it did come. That’s why Alice saw their decision before Irina triggered it. The decision was already made, just waiting for the pretense of a justification.” Yes, we already talked about this. quote:“If the Volturi are abusing the trust all immortals have placed in them…,” Carmen murmured. So exactly what makes Edward the expert here? He's the youngest vampire except for Bella and has interacted twice with the Volturi. Now he's suddenly able to predict their every whim? quote:“Of course,” Tanya murmured.
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Jul 23, 2020 19:13
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I can't even imagine the amount of Original Characters (DO NOT STEAL) circulating on the internet relating to Twilight vampires, or at least "what's your vampire power?" quizzes or whatever.
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Jul 23, 2020 21:15
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And so far it's been implied that many of the vampires with powers (Alec, Jane, Bella, and Alice to my knowledge) had them manifesting in a weaker form as humans before the transformation turned them into outright superpowers. These people come from all sorts of backgrounds and time periods, yet all manage to find each other. Which means Meyer has now established that in this universe it's relatively common for humans to be born with various psychic powers...but we still don't see any of them show up as non-vampires and we don't see any supernatural creatures aside from what we already have (aside from one reference to something very close to the end of the book which is clearly just Meyer trying to write herself out of a corner again).
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Jul 23, 2020 21:40
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chitoryu12 posted:And so far it's been implied that many of the vampires with powers (Alec, Jane, Bella, and Alice to my knowledge) had them manifesting in a weaker form as humans before the transformation turned them into outright superpowers. These people come from all sorts of backgrounds and time periods, yet all manage to find each other. Which means Meyer has now established that in this universe it's relatively common for humans to be born with various psychic powers...but we still don't see any of them show up as non-vampires and we don't see any supernatural creatures aside from what we already have (aside from one reference to something very close to the end of the book which is clearly just Meyer trying to write herself out of a corner again).
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Jul 23, 2020 23:49
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Chapter 32: Company So what begins this chapter is one of the most infamous excerpts of Breaking Dawn among Twilight fans. The strongest encapsulation of everything wrong with the book. quote:The Cullens' enormous house was more crowded with guests than anyone would assume could possibly be comfortable. It only worked out because none of the visitors slept. Mealtimes were dicey, though. Our company cooperated as best they could. They gave Forks and La Push a wide berth, only hunting out of state; Edward was a gracious host, lending out his cars as needed without so much as a wince. The compromise made me very uncomfortable, though I tried to tell myself that they’d all be hunting somewhere in the world, regardless. Starting out with the house somehow being "too crowded" when they previously had a graduation party take up just the first floor, we instantly shift gears into horror. The rest of the vampires here are not "vegetarians." They're people eaters. Despite knowing that it's possible to survive off of animal blood and having plentiful game nearby, Bella and Edward aren't even trying to set a "don't murder while you're here" ground rule. But it gets worse. Edward is not just accepting the "compromise", but gladly handing out his fancy sports cars and Volvo to them so they can indulge in killing innocent people! As long as they don't kill anyone in his town, he'll even facilitate it! And presumably the rest of the Cullens are accepting it as well. The supposed "love and respect for human life" is a sham. And as for Bella? She just shrugs and goes along with it. "Well they're gonna kill people anyway, so as long as they don't interfere with my life they can do whatever." quote:Jacob was even more upset. The werewolves existed to prevent the loss of human life, and here was rampant murder being condoned barely outside the packs’ borders. But under these circumstances, with Renesmee in acute danger, he kept his mouth shut and glared at the floor rather than the vampires. And our fearless leader, the Alpha that's supposedly the best Alpha ever, has decided to just grumble and let it happen. The imprinting has broken his will so badly that he can't even look angry at the vampires for murdering innocents in nearby towns. All of his morals and ideals have been wiped away to make him completely subservient to whatever will help Renesmee. I want to say that's another Forever Dawn change only because it's so against the previous continuity we've seen. In that draft, imprinting wasn't introduced at all until this book. But now we've seen it occur with multiple people previously, and all of them are perfectly capable of being away from their imrpintee to do their jobs. Jacob's imprinting is downright broken. quote:I was amazed at the easy acceptance the visiting vampires had for Jacob; the problems Edward had anticipated had never materialized. Jacob seemed more or less invisible to them, not quite a person, but also not food, either. They treated him the way people who are not animal-lovers treat the pets of their friends. A pet. The member of the native tribe is labeled as a loving pet. quote:Leah, Seth, Quil, and Embry were assigned to run with Sam for now, and Jacob would have happily joined them, except that he couldn’t stand to be away from Renesmee, and Renesmee was busy fascinating the strange collection of Carlisle’s friends. Not only has Jacob decided to let all the new vampires kill to their heart's content, he even sent his pack away so they couldn't stop them! quote:We’d replayed the scene of Renesmee’s introduction to the Denali coven a half dozen times. First for Peter and Charlotte, whom Alice and Jasper had sent our way without giving them any explanation at all; like most people who knew Alice, they trusted her instructions despite the lack of information. Alice had told them nothing about which direction she and Jasper were heading. She’d made no promise to ever see them again in the future.  Peter, Jasper's old war buddy, was played by Erik Odom. He had only been acting professionally for a few years at the time of this film, mostly in shorts and small time TV, and his career has been little different since. He seems to act theatrically more often in local LA productions.  Charlotte was played by Valorie Curry, who seems to have been made up specifically to resemble Alice and keep everyone confused during filming. She had previously appeared as Jane on Veronica Mars and would later gain more prominent TV roles as Emma on The Following and Dot Everest on The Tick. Nerds will recognize her as Kara in Detroit: Become Human. quote:Carlisle had sent friends from Ireland and Egypt. Isn't it great how multiple covens have people with superpowers that let them be completely trustworthy? Also, hope you guys like some stereotypes because here we go!  Siobhan was played by Lisa Howard, a predominately theatre actress who originated the role of Jenny in It Shoulda Been You, Ms. Piretti in The 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee, Missy in 9 to 5, and Tammy in Escape to Margaritaville (we can't all be winners) on Broadway.  Liam was played by Patrick Brennan; despite being a 17th century Irish soldier, the production team evidently decided to make him look like an early 20th century dockworker. He previously had a recurring role as Earl on The Black Donnellys and villain of the week Marcus Daniels (the MCU version of Blackout) on Agents of SHIELD.  Maggie was played by Marlane Barnes, another actress who started in shorts and minor TV before landing this role. She's since made a number of minor TV appearances, such as Sandy on two episodes of Sons of Anarchy. quote:Amun and the other Egyptian vampires were another story. Even after two younger members of his coven, Benjamin and Tia, had been convinced by Renesmee’s explanation, Amun refused to touch her and ordered his coven to leave. Benjamin—an oddly cheerful vampire who looked barely older than a boy and seemed both utterly confident and utterly careless at the same time—persuaded Amun to stay with a few subtle threats about disbanding their alliance. Amun stayed, but continued to refuse to touch Renesmee, and would not allow his mate, Kebi, to touch her, either. It seemed an unlikely grouping—though the Egyptians all looked so alike, with their midnight hair and olive-toned pallor, that they easily could have passed for a biological family. Amun was the senior member and the outspoken leader. Kebi never strayed farther away from Amun than his shadow, and I never heard her speak a single word. Tia, Benjamin’s mate, was a quiet woman as well, though when she did speak there was great insight and gravity to everything she said. Still, it was Benjamin whom they all seemed to revolve around, as if he had some invisible magnetism the others depended upon for their balance. I saw Eleazar staring at the boy with wide eyes and assumed Benjamin had a talent that drew the others to him. 56k warning for this post I guess.  Amun was played by Omar Metwally. He first came to fame playing Anwar El-Ibrahimi in Rendition, based on the true story of Khalid El-Masri (an innocent man who was mistaken for a potentially non-existent terrorist on a hunch and promptly kidnapped and tortured by the CIA, because we're the bad guys all along).  Kebi was played by Andrea Gabriel, daughter of soap opera stars John and Sandy Gabriel. She previously had a recurring role as Nadia Jaseem on Lost (one of the few actors to appear in every season) and has followed her parents in making a few soap appearances, though she seems to have done little in the last 5 years.  Tia was played by Angela Sarafyan, who was born in Armenia. While her career had its ups and downs, she's currently starring as Clementine Pennyfeather on Westworld.  Benjamin was played by- Oh poo poo, it's Rami Malek! Yeah, you all know who this guy is. While his most prominent role before this was Pharaoh Ahkmenrah in the Night at the Museum series, he exploded in popularity after this film. He starred in the leading role as Elliott in Mr. Robot, which earned him an Emmy among many other awards, and became the first Egyptian to win the Academy Award for Best Actor for playing Freddie Mercury in Bohemian Rhapsody. quote:“It’s not that,” Edward told me when we were alone that night. “His gift is so singular that Amun is terrified of losing him. Much like we had planned to keep Renesmee from Aro’s knowledge”—he sighed—“Amun has been keeping Benjamin from Aro’s attention. Amun created Benjamin, knowing he would be special.” We've finally exited the vague mental powers and are now into straight up throwing fireballs. Also, how is Benjamin this super independent guy who will never be exploited yet still following around the guy that he knows is trying to manipulate him? quote:“You like him,” I surmised from the tone of his voice. "Except for killing people. They do that a lot." quote:Amun’s attitude was something else, and he and Kebi kept to themselves, though Benjamin and Tia were well on their way to being fast friends with both the Denali and the Irish covens. We hoped that Carlisle’s return would ease the remaining tension with Amun. Oh God there's more. quote:Garrett came first—a tall, rangy vampire with eager ruby eyes and long sandy hair he kept tied back with a leather thong—and it was apparent immediately that he was an adventurer. I imagined that we could have presented him with any challenge and he would have accepted, just to test himself. He fell in quickly with the Denali sisters, asking endless questions about their unusual lifestyle. I wondered if vegetarianism was another challenge he would try, just to see if he could do it. Ah yes. The challenge of not murdering people.  Garrett, who seems to be a rejected Harry Potter character design, was played by the great Lee Pace! Whether you've seen him as Ronan in Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel, Thranduil in The Hobbit, or Ned on Pushing Daisies, everyone knows him. quote:Mary and Randall also came—friends already, though they did not travel together. They listened to Renesmee’s story and stayed to witness like the others. Like the Denalis, they considered what they would do if the Volturi did not pause for explanations. All three of the nomads toyed with the idea of standing with us.  I guess they overruled Meyer's racism, as Mary was played by Toni Trucks. She had a main role in the Showtime series Barbershop, which only lasted one season, and has made many TV appearances on shows like CSI: NY and The Mentalist. She's currently playing Ensign Lisa Davis on SEAL Team.  Randall was played by Bill Tangradi, who appeared that same year in Argo as hostage Alan B. Golacinski. Another TV actor, he played Cyrus on Justified and Jake in the Twin Peaks revival. quote:Of course, Jacob got more surly with each new addition. He kept his distance when he could, and when he couldn’t he grumbled to Renesmee that someone was going to have to provide an index if anyone expected him to keep all the new bloodsuckers’ names straight.* See that handy asterisk there? That's because this book actually includes a loving index! Go to the back and it provides a convenient list of every single coven and their members, including helpful labels for mated pairs, supernatural powers, and who's dead. Because that's a sign of writing a good book where all of the characters are distinct and their relationships are easily understood. quote:Carlisle and Esme returned a week after they had gone, Emmett and Rosalie just a few days later, and all of us felt better when they were home. Carlisle brought one more friend home with him, though friend might have been the wrong term. Alistair was a misanthropic English vampire who counted Carlisle as his closest acquaintance, though he could hardly stand a visit more than once a century. Alistair very much preferred to wander alone, and Carlisle had called in a lot of favors to get him here. He shunned all company, and it was clear he didn’t have any admirers in the gathered covens.  Alistair was played by Joe Anderson. He had previously starred as Max in the Beatles musical film Across the Universe, Joy Division and future New Order bassist Peter Hook in Control, Bill Stutz in Amelia, and The Fool in Operation: Endgame. For the third season of Hannibal, he would take over the role of Mason Verger after the notoriously difficult Michael Pitt walked off the show. quote:The brooding dark-haired vampire took Carlisle at his word about Renesmee’s origins, refusing, like Amun, to touch her. Edward told Carlisle, Esme, and me that Alistair was afraid to be here, but more afraid of not knowing the outcome. He was deeply suspicious of all authority, and therefore naturally suspicious of the Volturi. What was happening now seemed to confirm all his fears. Oh no! Not a brooding, dark-haired vampire! quote:Of course, now they’ll know I was here,” we heard him grumble to himself in the attic—his preferred spot to sulk. “No way to keep it from Aro at this point. Centuries on the run, that’s what this will mean. Everyone Carlisle’s talked to in the last decade will be on their list. I can’t believe I got myself sucked into this mess. What a fine way to treat your friends.” Maybe he has a point. quote:But if he was right about having to run from the Volturi, at least he had more hope of doing that than the rest of us. Alistair was a tracker, though not nearly as precise and efficient as Demetri. Alistair just felt an elusive pull toward whatever he was seeking. But that pull would be enough to tell him which direction to run—the opposite direction from Demetri. Yeah. It's about to get worse. quote:“Carlisle,” the taller of the two very tall feline women greeted him when they arrived. Both of them seemed as if they’d been stretched—long arms and legs, long fingers, long black braids, and long faces with long noses. They wore nothing but animal skins—hide vests and tight-fitting pants that laced on the sides with leather ties. It wasn’t just their eccentric clothes that made them seem wild but everything about them, from their restless crimson eyes to their sudden, darting movements. I’d never met any vampires less civilized. It's almost impressive how blatantly, mind-bendingly racist this book is. Those darn Amazonian savages, with their uncivilized costumes! quote:But Alice had sent them, and that was interesting news, to put it mildly. Why was Alice in South America? Just because she’d seen that no one else would be able to get in touch with the Amazons? For someone who supposedly ditched the Cullens out of terror and cowardice, Alice sure has been spending a lot of time traveling the world to send them allies! quote:“Zafrina and Senna! But where’s Kachiri?” Carlisle asked. “I’ve never seen you three apart.”  Fierce. Zafrina was played by Judi Shekoni, who played Precious Hudson on famed British soap opera EastEnders, and is the co-founder of hair extension company Extension Evolution. Senna was played by Tracey Heggins, who started out with repeated appearances as an unnamed model in Fashion House and a few one-off TV appearances on shows like Cold Case and Code Black. While Kachiri is supposed to appear later in the book, she was kept out of the film as she does little of consequence there. quote:Despite their fierce appearance, they listened very calmly to our story, and then allowed Renesmee to prove the point. They were every bit as taken with Renesmee as any of the other vampires, but I couldn’t help worrying as I watched their swift, jerky movements so close beside her. Senna was always near Zafrina, never speaking, but it wasn’t the same as Amun and Kebi. Kebi’s manner seemed obedient; Senna and Zafrina were more like two limbs of one organism—Zafrina just happened to be the mouthpiece. Yes, Bella. Be terrified of the fearsome blacks as they observe your precious white baby. Clutch your purse tighter at their leather pants. quote:The news about Alice was oddly comforting. Clearly, she was on some obscure mission of her own as she avoided whatever Aro had planned for her. Feels good to know that the Cullens thought so little of her that when she left on her secret mission, the first thought they had was "She must be running away and leaving us to die!" quote:Edward was thrilled to have the Amazons with us, because Zafrina was enormously talented; her gift could make a very dangerous offensive weapon. Not that Edward was asking for Zafrina to side with us in the battle, but if the Volturi did not pause when they saw our witnesses, perhaps they would pause for a different kind of scene. At this point it's hard to think of any vampires who don't have powers, especially ones that are completely overpowered in practice. quote:Zafrina’s lips twitched into her hard version of a smile. A second later, Edward’s eyes focused again, and he grinned back. Commanded. quote:After that, it was hard to keep Renesmee away from Zafrina and her pretty pictures. I worried, because I was quite sure that Zafrina was able to create images that were not pretty at all. But through Renesmee’s thoughts I could see Zafrina’s visions for myself—they were as clear as any of Renesmee’s own memories, like they were real—and thus judge for myself whether they were appropriate or not. Pray tell, why exactly did you think Zafrina would put "not pretty" images into your daughter's head? I'll wait. quote:Though I didn’t give her up easily, I had to admit it was a good thing Zafrina was keeping Renesmee entertained. I needed my hands. I had so much to learn, both physically and mentally, and the time was so short. This level of dramatics would be more appropriate for a comedy. quote:“I’m sorry, Bella,” he said. Just going frozen again! quote:“Edward? What’s wrong? Why won’t you teach me?” A full minute? Imagine a conversation where you and the other person just stare at each other for an entire minute, waiting for the other to speak. quote:“I just can’t… bear it. Emmett and Rosalie know as much as I do. Tanya and Eleazar probably know more. Ask someone else.” Like I said before, this is like a rotten fanfic instead of the author's actual book. Edward is so wound up about teaching Bella to fight that he's zipping around the field to dramatically freeze and stare into the distance. quote:I scowled. And if they do, then all of this time spent teaching you how to fight would be wasted pages! quote:“Find another teacher.” She just can't help but lay it on thick. quote:I learned many things from my teachers, but I had the sense that my knowledge was still impossibly basic. I had no idea how many seconds I would last against Alec and Jane. I only prayed that it would be long enough to help. Alec, Jane, and all of the other vampires there who aren't just going to stand and watch you attack them. Maybe if you had your own side's powerful mental vampires do something to them? Like teamwork is a thing? This is basically a repeat from Eclipse. Bella is so determined to sacrifice herself that she's privately making plans for how to interfere in a fight that nobody else knows about, which would inevitably throw them off if she did it. quote:Every minute of the day that I wasn’t with Renesmee or learning to fight, I was in the backyard working with Kate, trying to push my internal shield outside of my own brain to protect someone else. Edward encouraged me in this training. I knew he hoped I would find a way of contributing that satisfied me while also keeping me out of the line of fire. I would kill to see hours of Edward just repeatedly getting tased. quote:It killed me that it was Edward who had to suffer, my arms wrapped uselessly around him while he winced over and over from Kate’s “low” setting. I tried as hard as I could to push my shield around us both; every now and then I would get it, and then it would slip away again. Kate is literally the origin of the succubus myth because of how many men her coven killed for sexual pleasure. quote:“Hey,” Edward said cheerfully, trying to hide any evidence of distress in his voice. Anything to keep me from fighting practice. “That one barely stung. Good job, Bella.” "Why hasn't my status as the protagonist granted me perfection on the same day like usual!" quote:“You’re doing an amazing job, Bella,” Edward said, pulling me tight against him. “You’ve really only been working at this for a few days and you’re already projecting sporadically. Kate, tell her how well she’s doing.” Go and shock Renesmee! quote:I stared at her in disbelief, my lips automatically curling back from my teeth. How could she think I lacked motivation with her shocking Edward right here in front of me? I think they just wanted to see the dork keep getting floored. quote:“Kate…,” Edward said in a warning voice as some new course of action occurred to her, but she was already in motion. She darted along the curve of the river to where Zafrina, Senna, and Renesmee were walking slowly, Renesmee’s hand in Zafrina’s as they traded pictures back and forth. Jacob shadowed them from a few feet behind. YES!
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Jul 24, 2020 18:05
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chitoryu12 posted:Chapter 32: Company FWIW the whole 'only we can feel true bonds of love because we don't feed on humans' argument Edward was trotting out was dumb as gently caress. Not only are there multiple extremely close couples we see among human-eating vampires (including Victoria's love for James!), the narrative shifts between 'eating animal blood gives you more emotional control' and 'eating animal blood makes your emotions stronger and purer' depending on what crown Meyer wants to give the Cullens that paragraph. Obviously not eating humans when there's another viable option is the moral choice, but 'natural' vampires can be predatory monsters who see humans as weak and below them while still being perfectly able to connect with each other. It also annoys me because Edward is the last person who should be patting his back about the morality of it, given that he's a serial killer not out of desperation to eat and being able to convince himself humans weren't people, but because he wanted to. His power explicitly means he has to know the personhood of everyone he kills.
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Jul 24, 2020 18:55
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PetraCore posted:Cynically, I interpret the Cullens not putting up a guest rule of 'no murder' because human blood makes vampires stronger than animal blood (if more emotional) and they want an edge, but want the illusion of moral superiority. Nothing else makes sense - drinking animal blood isn't harmful, there's plenty of large predators in the peninsula to be somewhat appealing, and if these people are such good friends with the Cullens they would presumably accept temporarily shifting diets when staying in Cullen territory. Not only did Jasper briefly suggest switching to killing humans to give them an edge with the newborn army, but Bella even considered encouraging it! Her morality has always been questionable.
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Jul 24, 2020 19:16
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That there are a few vampires that refuse to touch Baby Sue as well as at least one vampire with full sensory illusion powers brings up yet another problem with the Renesmee character. Since vampire babies are widely known to be extremely charismatic, and since every vampire has some kind of super power, it seems a little foolish to trust anyone who vouches for Baby Sue and encourages you to “let her touch your mind so you can see the truth,” since it’s equally likely that Baby Sue is just a vampire baby who is projecting a heartbeat and other life signs, and then mind controlling vampires who touch her into supporting the “she’s a hybrid” story. The Volturi are still absolutely justified in destroying everyone present at the Cullen house unless they can take Baby Sue away for a comprehensive examination by their own people.
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Jul 24, 2020 19:54
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That sure is a lot of new characters to be dropping in in the last act.
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Jul 25, 2020 00:14
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Inspector Gesicht posted:That sure is a lot of new characters to be dropping in in the last act. I’m sure it will all be worth it and there will be an immensely satisfying conclusion. A writer of Meyer’s caliber could do no less surely. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Jul 25, 2020 00:16
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Inspector Gesicht posted:That sure is a lot of new characters to be dropping in in the last act. This chapter might be the worst yet, because it emphasizes all of Meyer's "I'm on the same level as a teenager writing her first fanfic" writing flaws. Very few of the characters have a distinct voice (many haven't even spoken yet) but she wants to have her badass crew of cool vampires show up, so she just has them all arrive simultaneously to sit around and glare dramatically. Because they're all interchangeable and introduced within a few pages, she sees an index as a legitimate tool to help readers understand the connections without realizing that a good series won't require that. I'll warn you now that they new cast will also subsume most of the attention the Cullens have had until Emmett, Rosalie, Esme, etc. are now the background characters. As I'm currently reading the new Dresden Files book, Peace Talks, it actually shows how much better Jim Butcher was at keeping everyone and everything recognizable. Despite being 7 years since the last book and having only re-read the first two by now, the characters all feel sufficiently distinct that I can jump right back into the plot without wondering who anyone is or why they're here. A brand new character in the second chapter (Austri) is given a completely unique voice, purpose, and established relationship with Harry that formed between books that you will easily remember on his next appearance. As much as people in TBB like to lambaste the series, it's never bad and it shows how much Meyer's prose and storytelling fail to reach even the level of pulp urban fantasy.
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Jul 25, 2020 01:19
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chitoryu12 posted:This chapter might be the worst yet, because it emphasizes all of Meyer's "I'm on the same level as a teenager writing her first fanfic" writing flaws. Very few of the characters have a distinct voice (many haven't even spoken yet) but she wants to have her badass crew of cool vampires show up, so she just has them all arrive simultaneously to sit around and glare dramatically. Because they're all interchangeable and introduced within a few pages, she sees an index as a legitimate tool to help readers understand the connections without realizing that a good series won't require that. I'll warn you now that they new cast will also subsume most of the attention the Cullens have had until Emmett, Rosalie, Esme, etc. are now the background characters. Butcher's issues come from a few different angles, but there's no question he's a professional writer and really talented compared to, well...teenagers writing fanfics.
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Jul 25, 2020 01:52
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Up Circle posted:Butcher's issues come from a few different angles, but there's no question he's a professional writer and really talented compared to, well...teenagers writing fanfics. And I honestly don't find his issues as a writer to be that bad after everything I've experienced. Harry's "chivalry" is considered obnoxious in-universe and eventually dropped, and the female characters are such a world of badass that it almost comes off as unrealistic that every single woman in the universe would be this awesome. Even the more one-dimensional villainous females are still mostly "hot, tough girl."
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Jul 25, 2020 02:22
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chitoryu12 posted:And I honestly don't find his issues as a writer to be that bad after everything I've experienced. Harry's "chivalry" is considered obnoxious in-universe and eventually dropped, and the female characters are such a world of badass that it almost comes off as unrealistic that every single woman in the universe would be this awesome. Even the more one-dimensional villainous females are still mostly "hot, tough girl."
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Jul 25, 2020 03:50
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The way the Amazon group is introduced and described is another example of how Meyer is utterly clueless to what her writing means/implies.
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Jul 25, 2020 15:14
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Midjack posted:That there are a few vampires that refuse to touch Baby Sue as well as at least one vampire with full sensory illusion powers brings up yet another problem with the Renesmee character. Since vampire babies are widely known to be extremely charismatic, and since every vampire has some kind of super power, it seems a little foolish to trust anyone who vouches for Baby Sue and encourages you to “let her touch your mind so you can see the truth,” since it’s equally likely that Baby Sue is just a vampire baby who is projecting a heartbeat and other life signs, and then mind controlling vampires who touch her into supporting the “she’s a hybrid” story. The Volturi are still absolutely justified in destroying everyone present at the Cullen house unless they can take Baby Sue away for a comprehensive examination by their own people. As I mentioned up thread, an echocardiogram is trivial, hard to fake, and conclusive proof that a heart is there and beating away. If you're worried about mind control, have it monitored. This entire plot beat where "renesmee will be mistaken for an immortal child" is in contention for the dumbest vampire plot ever, and it's irritating that it wastes such a great idea. Vampire children being lovable sociopathic monsters is great. As usual, Meyer's worldbuilding is interesting and her ability to write the book in that world just can't keep up. For all the mud slung at Anita Blake and Harry Dresden, they are both written by far more competent writers and never approach this level of outright bad craft.
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Jul 25, 2020 16:03
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Ugh I didn't know there was a vampire with my own first name in this stupid book. At least she looks cool.
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Jul 25, 2020 16:07
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:The way the Amazon group is introduced and described is another example of how Meyer is utterly clueless to what her writing means/implies.
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Jul 25, 2020 16:24
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Anias posted:This entire plot beat where "renesmee will be mistaken for an immortal child" is in contention for the dumbest vampire plot ever, and it's irritating that it wastes such a great idea. Vampire children being lovable sociopathic monsters is great. As usual, Meyer's worldbuilding is interesting and her ability to write the book in that world just can't keep up. The problem was only Renesmee getting mistaken for an immortal child when it was Irina who saw her. Now the problem is the Volturi will use that as an excuse to sweep in, murder the Cullens no questions asked and let Aro keep Edward and Alice as new pets. Which is why they need all these "Witnesses" to give the V pause long enough for the Cullens to talk Aro out of his plan.
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Jul 26, 2020 14:15
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That reading would make more sense if they hadn't started clearly that all the other vampires would also mistake Renesmee for an immortal child and emphasised how much all of them expect the Volturi to wipe everyone out. If that's actually an intentional twist from Meyer she ruined it by writing everyone fully believing the Volturi are going to actually flip out and not pause to actually see or hear anything exactly like the other vampires almost do. So either she's got a perfectly good explanation for why the Volturi would take so long and not have vampire sensing powers but every other vampire acts exactly like they will claim to and even the Cullens believe they will or every other vampire is dumb as a bag of rocks and no one is even able to imagine the Volturi are so manipulative. On another the note: what the hell are the 'wives'? They're clearly valued and protected but what reason is there for that? I mean they're vampires so they're all but indestructible and it's not like they can reproduce so what role do they play other than Meyer having some clichéd vision of European nobility/eighteenth century vampire fiction.
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Jul 26, 2020 17:45
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MrNemo posted:That reading would make more sense if they hadn't started clearly that all the other vampires would also mistake Renesmee for an immortal child and emphasised how much all of them expect the Volturi to wipe everyone out. If that's actually an intentional twist from Meyer she ruined it by writing everyone fully believing the Volturi are going to actually flip out and not pause to actually see or hear anything exactly like the other vampires almost do. So either she's got a perfectly good explanation for why the Volturi would take so long and not have vampire sensing powers but every other vampire acts exactly like they will claim to and even the Cullens believe they will or every other vampire is dumb as a bag of rocks and no one is even able to imagine the Volturi are so manipulative. They are literally the leaders’ wives.
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Jul 26, 2020 18:06
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I still can't get over the stupid song and dance they're going though every time they introduce the kid to someone else. The whole "tell me what you smell...tell me what your hear..." bit. "Hey, so Bella and I got married while she was human, and I know it's weird, but we had a child who's half human, half vampire. I didn't want to turn Bella into a vampire until she'd given birth because I was scared for her safety. If you don't believe me, here's the kid. Check it out, she has a heartbeat." Bam. Tell them what they need to know right off the bat, then bring in the kid to prove it. Don't do a parlor trick where you show them a kid and go "oh ho, you thought it was an immortal child, didn't you? Psych! Remember how I asked you what you heard five minutes ago? That was her heartbeat!"
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Jul 26, 2020 21:53
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hyperhazard posted:I still can't get over the stupid song and dance they're going though every time they introduce the kid to someone else. The whole "tell me what you smell...tell me what your hear..." bit. The only explanation I can think of for why vampires aren't driven mad by their own senses is that they have to specifically focus on exactly what they want to see, hear, or smell and everything else gets tuned out. They can see the eyes of a fly from a mile away and hear people talking from the other side of town, or track prey by heartbeat and scent, but they somehow show no signs of sensory overload and conveniently fail to notice obvious things right in front of them all the time.
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Jul 27, 2020 02:43
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quote:Edward hugged me reassuringly. I shook him off just as Renesmee flitted across the yard to me, with Kate, Zafrina, and Senna right behind her. Kate just outright said she's going to go electrocute your baby and you're just hugging your wife and saying it's okay? You're going to find out why and you're going to hate Edward even more soon. quote:“Absolutely not, Kate,” I hissed.  quote:“But Momma, I want to help,” she said in a determined voice. Her hand rested against my neck, reinforcing her desire with images of the two of us together, a team. This child speaks like an alien imitation of a child. Remember how earlier she was supposed to be "smarter than any adult" and reciting literature? Now she's regressing into a toddler. quote:“No,” I said, quickly backing away. Kate had taken a deliberate step in my direction, her hand stretched toward us. The Mother Sue is unleashed! Stephenie Meyer is here to tell us that yes, she truly is better than any of you who haven't had children! quote:The rage brought every aspect of my being into sharper focus. I could even feel the elasticity of my shield more exactly now—feel that it was not a band so much as a layer, a thin film that covered me from head to toe. With the anger rippling through my body, I had a better sense of it, a tighter hold on it. I stretched it around myself, out from myself, swaddling Renesmee completely inside it, just in case Kate got past my guard. We even get the swaddling metaphor! quote:Kate took another calculated step forward, and a vicious snarl ripped up my throat and through my clenched teeth. You're going to do this fight with your baby riding piggyback? quote:“Can you hear anything from Nessie?” Kate asked him, her voice calm and easy. "NEWBORN RAAAAAAAGE" quote:“We don’t have time to do this gently, Edward. We’re going to have to push her. We only have a few weeks, and she’s got the potential to—” Yes, you read that right. Edward had read Kate's mind and knew she was only going to pretend to tase his kid, which is why he was doing nothing to intervene. This is a cast of sociopaths. Nobody else knew that it was a sham, but they still all sat there and watched. All of our heroes were going to just let a child get electrocuted for the sake of Bella's training. And the only explanation Meyer is giving is "Well, they aren't mothers so of course they wouldn't care." Also, here's a question: where is Jacob? The wolf boy so obsessively in love with and protective of Renesmee that he stays at her side 24/7? I guess Meyer realized that he would hamper her idea, so he just sort of...disappears. quote:This did not pacify me. The spectrum of light I saw still seemed tainted with crimson. But I was in better control of myself, and I could see the wisdom of Kate’s words. The anger helped me. I would learn faster under pressure. Never mind how Bella is suddenly completely accepting of this new method of training despite being the Mother Goddess, she's historically someone who utterly crumbles under pressure instead of getting better. quote:“Kate,” I growled. I rested my hand on the small of Edward’s back. I could still feel my shield like a strong, flexible sheet around Renesmee and me. I pushed it farther, forcing it around Edward. There was no sign of a flaw in the stretchy fabric, no threat of a tear. I panted with the effort, and my words came out sounding breathless rather than furious. “Again,” I said to Kate. “Edward only.” Remember how Bella was once so obsessed over Edward that she repeatedly attempted suicide for saving him or because she was depressed about him leaving her? Nah, Renesmee's here and Bella is a Mother so Edward can get the poo poo kicked out of him forever. quote:She rolled her eyes but flitted forward and pressed her palm to Edward’s shoulder. stop being racist dear god quote:“I don’t see anything I shouldn’t,” Edward said. "We need to make her angry! Quickly, throw a knife at her daughter!" quote:There was a shocked gasp from everyone there—Eleazar, Carmen, Tanya, Garrett, Benjamin, Tia, Siobhan, Maggie—everyone but Senna, who seemed prepared for whatever Zafrina was doing. The others’ eyes were blank, their expressions anxious. So while everyone is standing frozen in shock for an entire night over the prospect of how powerful Alec and Jane's powers are, Zafrina has now demonstrated that she can do the exact same thing. Just blind the entire Volturi at once when they show up. quote:“Raise your hand when you get your sight back,” Zafrina instructed. “Now, Bella. See how many you can shield.” I'm sure all of this attempt at logically figuring out the limits and capabilities of Bella's shield will be relevant in the final battle. quote:He continued to mumble to himself, but I couldn’t listen to the words. I ground my teeth together, struggling to force the shield out to Garrett, who was closest to Kate. His hand came up. That's completely nonsensical. quote:“Of course,” Zafrina said, and the spectators relaxed as she let them see again. Except earlier, you said everyone was drawn to them and staring at you. quote:“I wouldn’t, Garrett,” Edward cautioned. Found his kink. quote:“Maybe,” Kate said, her face suddenly serious. “Maybe it only works on the weak or the young. I’m not sure. You look strong, though. Perhaps you could withstand my gift.” She stretched her hand out to him, palm up—a clear invitation. Her lips twitched, and I was pretty sure her grave expression was an attempt to hustle him. Just like all of the men she lured to their deaths for sexual pleasure. In case you forgot she did that. quote:Garrett grinned at the challenge. Very confidently, he touched her palm with his index finger. Except you have seen that before, in New Moon. Again, because this is Forever Dawn, that event never existed and Meyer was too lazy or incompetent of a writer to make changes. quote:“I told you so,” Edward muttered. Oh my God it is a kink thing. quote:Edward rolled his eyes. Yes, there are more characters! She's introducing 17 loving people in one chapter! quote:Edward darted into the house and most of the others imitated him. I followed more slowly, Renesmee still perched on my back. I would give Carlisle a moment. Let him warm up the new guest, prepare him or her or them for the idea of what was coming. Hopefully Carlisle has a better method of introduction than Edward. quote:I pulled Renesmee into my arms as I walked cautiously around the house to enter through the kitchen door, listening to what I couldn’t see. "His voice! A sure sign of evil!" quote:I knew the front room was crowded—almost everyone had gone in to see the newest visitors—but there was barely any noise. Shallow breathing, that was all. Sounds like people you want on your side! quote:“We’ve been waiting a millennium and a half for the Italian scum to be challenged,” said the first. “If there is any chance they will fall, we will be here to see it.” Would you stop just springing this girl on vampires! Jesus Christ! quote:It helped to know that probably half of the vampires in the other room would come to Renesmee’s defense if these Romanians were upset by her. I didn’t like the sound of their voices, or the dark menace in their words. As I walked into the room, I could see that I was not alone in that assessment. Most of the motionless vampires glared with hostile eyes, and a few—Carmen, Tanya, Zafrina, and Senna—repositioned themselves subtly into defensive poses between the newcomers and Renesmee.  Our first "token evil teammate" newcomer, Stefan, was played by Israel actor Guri Weinberg. His father, Moshe Weinberg, was the Olympic wrestling coach who was killed in the 1972 Munich Olympics terrorist attack, his naked body flung into the street. Guri's mother took him to the United States, where he became an actor starting with bit parts in shows like The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles. Then he got the role of a lifetime: playing his own father and recreating his murder in Steven Spielberg's Munich. The film received 5 Oscar nominations, but Weinberg's own mother was unhappy with the film and demanded that people not watch it; chances are she wasn't too happy about the prospect of seeing her husband played by her son getting shot again.  Vladimir, who really chooses to look like that I guess, was played by Noel Fisher. He had gained fame as Mickey Milkovich on Shameless, though his first American role would be Brian Gibbons (he of the exploding barbecue grill) in Final Destination 2. He would later play Michelangelo in the awful live action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles films. quote:The dark one grinned when I came into view. “Well, well, Carlisle. You have been naughty, haven’t you?” Awesome. You're going to let the guys who want to intentionally egg on a fight be on your side. quote:In the end, we had pulled together seventeen witnesses—the Irish, Siobhan, Liam, and Maggie; the Egyptians, Amun, Kebi, Benjamin, and Tia; the Amazons, Zafrina and Senna; the Romanians, Vladimir and Stefan; and the nomads, Charlotte and Peter, Garrett, Alistair, Mary, and Randall—to supplement our family of eleven. Tanya, Kate, Eleazar, and Carmen insisted on being counted as part of our family. You know you've done a good job writing when you have to give another full list of characters and their covens to make sure everyone's got it right. quote:Aside from the Volturi, it was probably the largest friendly gathering of mature vampires in immortal history. Illustrated Guide says no! quote:We all were beginning to be a little bit hopeful. Even I couldn’t help it. Renesmee had won over so many in such a brief time. The Volturi only had to listen for just the tiniest second.… You were just theorizing with Eleazar how this was probably a plot to get all the powered vampires into the Volturi and they wouldn't give a poo poo about Renesmee being a hybrid or not! quote:The last two surviving Romanians—focused only on their bitter resentment of the ones who had overthrown their empire fifteen hundred years earlier—took everything in stride. They would not touch Renesmee, but they showed no aversion to her. They seemed mysteriously delighted by our alliance with the werewolves. They watched me practice my shield with Zafrina and Kate, watched Edward answer unspoken questions, watched Benjamin pull geysers of water from the river or sharp gusts of wind from the still air with just his mind, and their eyes glowed with their fierce hope that the Volturi had finally met their match.
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Jul 27, 2020 20:28
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So our two new friends have just been hanging out doing absolutely nothing waiting for a plot to find them? Just sharing "The Romanian Vampires Can Still Win, and Here's How" articles on Vampire Social Media like a bunch of impotently belligerent online immortals?
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Jul 27, 2020 21:21
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Grammarchist posted:So our two new friends have just been hanging out doing absolutely nothing waiting for a plot to find them? Just sharing "The Romanian Vampires Can Still Win, and Here's How" articles on Vampire Social Media like a bunch of impotently belligerent online immortals? Leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet!
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Jul 27, 2020 21:34
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