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galagazombie posted:Was there ever really any way for the natives of the Americas to not get wiped out? Forming an alliance with the norse 
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Jul 26, 2020 15:31
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It's interesting to think about what happens if the norse presence were enough to spread disease and the population is bouncing back when Columbus arrives.
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Jul 26, 2020 16:38
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:It's interesting to think about what happens if the norse presence were enough to spread disease and the population is bouncing back when Columbus arrives. I suspect that the Norse population probably didn't have enough disease-carrying capacity - the population of Greenland was tiny.
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Jul 26, 2020 17:51
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Schadenboner posted:IIRC blue pigment is super-duper toxic (even by the standards of pigments) so it's possible this is a folkway developed around it or some poo poo?
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Jul 26, 2020 17:59
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chippocrates posted:I suspect that the Norse population probably didn't have enough disease-carrying capacity - the population of Greenland was tiny.
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Jul 26, 2020 18:39
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Scarodactyl posted:Not woad or ultramarine. Which pigment are you thinking of? Azurite could give you copper poisoning if ingested, but it's probably not insanely toxic, not by pigment standards anyway. Maybe it's a different color. Which ones are especially bad and are those connected with supersitions of unluck?
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Jul 26, 2020 18:43
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Schadenboner posted:Maybe it's a different color. Which ones are especially bad and are those connected with supersitions of unluck? Cinnabar, maybe? It was used to make red pigment and I think mining it was pretty much a death sentence (or at least a quicker death sentence).
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Jul 26, 2020 18:49
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Cool stuff https://twitter.com/dvoshart/status/1286704635370143745?s=21 
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Jul 26, 2020 19:10
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Jul 26, 2020 19:27
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Florianus 
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Jul 26, 2020 19:29
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Fellblade posted:Florianus He was done using the dreamworks algorithm.
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Jul 26, 2020 19:34
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Numerian looks like Will Smith. Edit: I would trust Pertinax with my plumbing, I would let Lucious Verus & Markus Aurelius play at my wedding and I would use Aurelian to sell my beard trimmer. I would not trust Nero with my car, I would not trust Otho to not eat my pizza while taking a piss, I would not pick a fight with Carcalla and Commodus would not be entrusted with anything that could be sold or broken. Zudgemud fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 19:36
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Are we sure that Vespasian didn't intimidate senators by taking a poo poo in front of them, tell his tailor his clothes needed more room for his dick, or terrify the passengers of his boat-chariot by driving it into the Tiber?
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Jul 26, 2020 19:36
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Grand Fromage posted:Yeah the Europeans were a fairly minor push factor on an already tottering and decaying empire. The Qing might've lasted longer without that, but the rot was well in place before Europeans showed up in force. Would've been interesting to see what replaced the Qing without that external threat though. A new monarchy, the CCP again, the republic? Tbf platt (i think it was him at least) argues in one of his books that the drain on the Qing's silver bullion from trade with europe was a major factor in the collapse of its internal economy
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Jul 26, 2020 19:53
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chippocrates posted:I suspect that the Norse population probably didn't have enough disease-carrying capacity - the population of Greenland was tiny. https://www.sciencenews.org/article/smallpox-virus-ancient-dna-teeth-vikings-europeans they did have smallpox apparently
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Jul 26, 2020 19:53
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The gooniest looking is Nero, shocking no one. Marcus Aurelius is the one who looks most like my platonic ideal of a monarch. The sexiest is a tie between Hadrian and Maximinus Thrax, but Hadrian is definitely who I'd date.
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Jul 26, 2020 20:03
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Fuligin posted:Tbf platt (i think it was him at least) argues in one of his books that the drain on the Qing's silver bullion from trade with europe was a major factor in the collapse of its internal economy That doesn't really jive with all the stories I've heard about European trade with China where silver kept going into the country from merchants buying but the Chinese wouldn't buy much, so none of that silver came back out. That was the whole point of opium, introducing something that the Chinese would buy. Of course, an influx of way too much silver could devalue the currency and be damaging in its own way.
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Jul 26, 2020 20:24
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Hadrian looks like a nerd with a bowl cut, I think he's tied with Nero for Gooniest Look. Edgar Allen Ho posted:The gooniest looking is Nero, shocking no one. Marcus Aurelius is the one who looks most like my platonic ideal of a monarch. The sexiest is a tie between Hadrian and Maximinus Thrax, but Hadrian is definitely who I'd date. ~*~max thrax~*~ looks handsome, nice, and charming, this is amazing. 
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Jul 26, 2020 20:35
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Fuligin posted:Tbf platt (i think it was him at least) argues in one of his books that the drain on the Qing's silver bullion from trade with europe was a major factor in the collapse of its internal economy The Qing didn't pay out silver. Part of the motivation for selling opium was that Britain was tired of sending all its silver to China for tea, since the Chinese wouldn't accept anything else. Opium was very popular in China before the British (despite what official Chinese histories nowadays will tell you) so it was an easy thing to sell/trade for tea. The Chinese insistence on silver as the core of the economy was a constant source of weakness, though. The devaluation of silver due to American mines was a huge destabilizing force on the Ming, and the requirement of converting actual everyday money to silver to pay taxes squeezed the peasantry at various times to cause huge revolts.
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Jul 26, 2020 21:01
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It also made the Qing aristocracy much less willing to intervene in the economic chaos in the agrarian heartland. The same silver deflation crisis that was bankrupting tens of millions of small farmers was making the Qing government ministers personally wealthy. Scapegoating foreigners and performative drug interdiction policies were much easier for the Qing elite than actually trying to solve the fundamental economic policies that were sending people into deaths of despair.
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Jul 26, 2020 21:07
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Arglebargle III posted:It also made the Qing aristocracy much less willing to intervene in the economic chaos in the agrarian heartland. The same silver deflation crisis that was bankrupting tens of millions of small farmers was making the Qing government ministers personally wealthy. I'm glad nothing in history ever has parallels to the modern world.
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Jul 26, 2020 21:09
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too slow!
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Jul 26, 2020 21:10
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Arglebargle III posted:It also made the Qing aristocracy much less willing to intervene in the economic chaos in the agrarian heartland. The same silver deflation crisis that was bankrupting tens of millions of small farmers was making the Qing government ministers personally wealthy. Scapegoating foreigners and performative drug interdiction policies were much easier for the Qing elite than actually trying to solve the fundamental economic policies that were sending people into deaths of despair. Yeah the internal policy discussions on what to do about the opium epidemic are fascinating
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Jul 26, 2020 21:26
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I was going to guess Colm Meaney, but LBJ is better. Half of them look like George Clooney.
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Jul 26, 2020 22:40
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Septimius Severus has that look you get when you’ve been doing boring work at the Senate and then you see your failsons doing the same stupid poo poo again.
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Jul 26, 2020 22:51
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Florianus looks like Jack Black
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Jul 26, 2020 23:11
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Grand Fromage posted:The Qing didn't pay out silver. Part of the motivation for selling opium was that Britain was tired of sending all its silver to China for tea, since the Chinese wouldn't accept anything else. Opium was very popular in China before the British (despite what official Chinese histories nowadays will tell you) so it was an easy thing to sell/trade for tea. You got any book or article recommendations to know more about this (worldwide silver deflation)?
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Jul 26, 2020 23:18
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Rockopolis posted:I was going to guess Colm Meaney, but LBJ is better. Missed opportunity not to have a DS9 episode where O'Brien becomes emperor of the ancient Rome planet. And then is horribly tortured because it's O'Brien.
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Jul 26, 2020 23:19
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GoutPatrol posted:You got any book or article recommendations to know more about this (worldwide silver deflation)? My understanding is that the relative quantity of gold and silver in Europe greatly increased due to the massive influx from the New World as well as improved mining methods in Germany.
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Jul 26, 2020 23:29
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Epicurius posted:Fun fact a lot of people don't know. Montezuma's descendants are still Spanish nobility today. The Duke of Moctezuma de Tultengo just got into a public argument with the President of Mexico last year after AMLO wrote a letter to Spain and the Vatican demanding they apologize for the Spanish conquest of Mexico. Accurate, because this just blew my mind.
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Jul 27, 2020 00:56
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All the native American talk got me thinking, is it possible native Americans had their own diseases they were immune from, but the diseases never spread to Europe since there weren't large numbers of migration from the Americas to Europe?
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Jul 27, 2020 03:41
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downout posted:All the native American talk got me thinking, is it possible native Americans had their own diseases they were immune from, but the diseases never spread to Europe since there weren't large numbers of migration from the Americas to Europe? there's debate over whether syphilis was given to Europeans in the colombian exchange. Aside from that a lot of tropical diseases in Africa hit Europeans worse, but since they were spread by warm weather vectors like mosquitoes or whatever they didn't really get back to Europe (but then they ended up getting spread to the americas with the slave trade).
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Jul 27, 2020 03:45
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downout posted:All the native American talk got me thinking, is it possible native Americans had their own diseases they were immune from, but the diseases never spread to Europe since there weren't large numbers of migration from the Americas to Europe? It's thought syphilis comes from the Americas, but there's some debate about that. Otherwise not really, there weren't as many opportunities for diseases to emerge because Americans didn't have domestic animals in the same way as the old world. Syphilis spread all over the world quickly after American contact, so presumably if the Americans had their own smallpox that would have traveled too. E: I personally think syphilis was American. The other idea is that it existed in the old world but for some reason nobody mentioned it, with the first recorded outbreak being in 1495. Seems real suspicious to me that no one would notice a horrific disease until, conveniently, just after Europeans started doing serious expeditions to the Americas. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 03:45
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Nero and Otho met playing offensive tackle positions in gymnasium. EDIT: I just realized the synchronicity of this post with my "NFL quarterback depicted as a Roman emperor" avatar. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 03:56
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Everything I know about Rome I learned from reading 1) I, Claudius 2) Claudius the God Really two of the best books I've ever read
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Jul 27, 2020 05:16
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Omnomnomnivore posted:Are we sure that Vespasian didn't intimidate senators by taking a poo poo in front of them, tell his tailor his clothes needed more room for his dick, or terrify the passengers of his boat-chariot by driving it into the Tiber? Vespasian's horses "accidentally" drive his aqua-cart into the lake at his country estate and he says "Oh poo poo, I think I'm becoming a god"
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Jul 27, 2020 05:27
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Vitellius knows a guy who knows a guy who can fix your little problem. Aemillian has been cast in the Mass Effect movie, and Elagabalus has strong opinions about the ethics of that and other casting decisions. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 09:11
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downout posted:All the native American talk got me thinking, is it possible native Americans had their own diseases they were immune from, but the diseases never spread to Europe since there weren't large numbers of migration from the Americas to Europe? There's some evidence that one of the epidemics that struck post-Aztec Mexico was some sort of local pandemic disease. Though it wasn't like they were immune to it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoliztli_epidemics The general issue for the Native Americans was that the epidemics never stopped coming. Populations rebound surprisingly quickly from horrible events like brutal wars and epidemics, so long as they're reasonably quick. If you get hit with smallpox, then typhus, then influenza, and then tuberculosis sweeps the survivors, that's going to seriously decimate a few generations.
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Jul 27, 2020 09:19
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excellent bird guy posted:Everything I know about Rome I learned from reading 1) I, Claudius 2) Claudius the God You should read Augustus by John Williams too.
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Jul 27, 2020 09:55
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downout posted:All the native American talk got me thinking, is it possible native Americans had their own diseases they were immune from, but the diseases never spread to Europe since there weren't large numbers of migration from the Americas to Europe? A popular idea is that there weren't any (save maybe syphilis) because the Americas lacked the animals that plagues generally come from. Most every big plague disease comes from a domesticated animal like cows or pigs, or from the rats that plagued old world cities. Living in such close proximity to these animals for thousands of years both gave these diseases the time to adapt to infecting humans, and then the fleas did the rest of the work. The Americas on the other hand don't really have any domesticatable animals, save the Dog and Llama. The Llama is kinda limited to the Andes and Dogs aren't big disease vectors. So thats no Smallpox or TB from Cows, or Influenza from Pigs/Chickens. And not having Plague Rats obviously means no Bubonic Plague. So while the population of the Old World was stewing in a mass of diseased animals the Americas were denied the opportunity to live with a bunch of filthy livestock.
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Jul 27, 2020 12:10
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