|
Oh well, I just went an test drove a Kia e-Niro today and bought one, and get it in 2 weeks. Apparently in the UK a big corporate sale of the things just fell through so they have a few containers of black/graphite 4's to get sold quick. Even managed to get servicing and a pile of accessories thrown in. It's not exactly my dream car, but it's thoroughly practical for me.
cynic fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Jul 28, 2020 |
#
?
Jul 28, 2020 22:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 15:41 |
|
|
Cars with battery thermal management will keep their batteries in spec temperatures when parked, especially when plugged in.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2020 22:20
|
|
|
YOLOsubmarine posted:Wonder when ID.4 reviews will start to show up. Either that or the XC40 electric is probably going to be the replacement for our CX-5. Me too. Those videos definitely sold me on the Polestar but the price and the fact that the NJ rebate ($25 per mile range with a max of $5000) cuts out above $55,000 took it out of the running. How has Volvo quality and reliability been in general since they were bought out by Geely? I don't see a lot around but I have yet to see a Volvo courtesy car. That still isn't that much of a metric when their overall numbers in my area are comparatively few.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2020 22:30
|
|
|
My model 3 is parked outdoors in a driveway or in a surface lot in southern Arizona and after two years and 20K miles, I'm at 1-2% range loss from new, so with active thermal management it's NBD to be outside.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2020 22:41
|
|
|
dialhforhero posted:Hi all, hoping to gain some insight here. This is a crosspost from the VW/Audi thread. My wife and I both like VWs so we took a serious look at them when we were shopping last fall. Didn't actually drive one but never the less I have opinions. If the delivery time for a new model hadn't been 12 -18 months we might be driving one now instead of a Bolt. We considered going down island to take a look at a 2016. It would have been fine for my wife's commute (40 kilometres / 25 miles round trip) and there should have been no problem recharging overnight on a regular 120v outlet. The range however wasn't enough to get it back home (140 kilometres) without stopping at a fast charger, never mind the occasional highway trip my wife needs to take. We intend to keep the vehicle long enough that battery replacement might be an issue. The 2016 is a conventional Golf body (which is good) with battery packs stuffed in every possible nook and cranny and probably complicated to replace as a result. dialhforhero posted:
As far as I know, all EVs come standard with a 120v Level 1 charger that connects your car to an ordinary outlet. Those chargers are fine for a lot of commuter situations. We ended up upgrading to a 240v Level 2 for the occasional busy day when my wife is driving in and out of town several times a day. After a day like that it can take two or three days for the 120v charger to catch up and fully recharge the battery overnight. We already had a 240v dryer/welding outlet next to where the car parks so there weren't any extra wiring costs involved. Level 2 is pretty much a luxury for us though and we don't really need it. I wouldn't buy a car without a Level 3 DC fast charging port. They're standard here on all the cars we looked at but seem to an option in other parts of North America. We don't need it except for out of town trips but having that port increases your options if you're travelling or have a busy day. You might want to take a look at PlugShare to see what other charging options are available to you. Again, if you have a plug at home 90+% of your charging will take place there. We live on the west coast of British Columbia, so rain was a concern for us as well. The charging ports seem to be well sealed. Haven't found rain getting where it shouldn't yet. In snowy areas some people fabricate a little cover to slip over the charging connector to keep snow from building up on it. The brain boxes on the charging cords we looked are also well sealed and I have no concerns about a roof overhang providing enough protection for ours. If I didn't have a convenient overhang I'd look at a Tupperware container or maybe one of those connection boxes designed for outdoor christmas lights but maybe I'm just too paranoid, living on the Wet Coast and all. dialhforhero posted:How is the driving performance when compared to gas versions? (Not very important but I love the torque and turbo on my SportWagen) I'm a conservative, hyper-miling type of dialhforhero posted:Maintenance costs and needs especially vs. a TSI (or standard gas/diesel engine). How expensive? Consumables like tires, windshield wipers, washer fluid, and cabin air filters remain the same. There's some discussion that the combination of weight and torque reduces tire life. I don't doubt that as I have a bad habit of chirping the tires while accelerating onto the highway. Maintenance schedule for the Bolt: Wipers – Replace 12,000 km, 1 year Cabin Filter – Replace 36,000 km, 2 years Coolant - Replace 240,000 km, 5 years Brake Fluid - Replace 5 years Air con desiccant - Replace 7 years Gas struts - Replace 120,000 km, 10 years That's it. Still a bit surprised there's no front end lubrication on the list. Note that the older eGolfs used air cooled batteries so any coolant replacement is limited to whatever is used for cabin climate control. Every five years you need to replace the brake fluid otherwise atmospheric water contaminates it and will rust out your brake hydraulics. If you drive with a bit of forethought and regenerative (electric motor) braking turned on your brake pads can last 100,000+ kilometres. New pads need be worn in for the first 350 kilometres (i.e.: you brake with your brake pedal, not your motor). Once we did that in January I've used the brakes exactly four times - twice for idiots cutting into traffic, once to abort approaching a stale yellow, and once for moron who left a heavy equipment trailer parked in the middle of a lane on a blind corner. No idea what it costs to get the air conditioning desiccant replaced. Guess I'll find out in 2027. I haven't looked closely, but gas struts for the rear hatch should be a relatively cheap DIY job. Batteries aren't cheap to replace. Assuming costs remain the same (not true for batteries as they continue to go down) we would save enough on fuel and maintenance to be able to replace the battery every ten years and be money ahead. Ditto for the electric motors. They should be very reliable but you never know when someone is going to develop the electrical equivalent of a Chrysler transmission. I'm sure other things will break. All modern cars are crap, with the possible exception of Toyotas (as long as they aren't some joint venture thing) and maybe Hyundais/Kias on a good day. (I'm still a bit sour that one of the things destroying our beloved GTI Golf was disintegrating plastic timing chain guides.) Early Bolts had issues with the front ends. Hopefully any similar bugs in VWs make themselves evident during the warranty period. dialhforhero posted:I think I found that charging costs are more expensive still than gas prices when comparing tank charge vs. gas and distance traveled. True? That hasn't been our experience with fuel costs. (Prices in $  , monthly averages):F250, 7.3l diesel: $15/100 km. VW GTI, 6 cyl premium gas: $15/100 km. (expensive fuel, terrible fuel economy for mixed highway/city driving) Smart TwoFour, diesel: $4/100 km. Bolt: $1.98 -$2.90 /100 km. (Local power @ $0.14 per kilowatt hour). $2.90 was from Jan-Feb, lots of heat needed in the car and we were learning how to drive an EV. Since then we've been running $1.98 - $2.35. Air conditioning doesn't seem to be as demanding as cabin heating. dialhforhero posted:I really like Golfs and VWs so if an eGolf is reliable and I can get about 120k miles on it I think that would be great. Despite my grumpyness about hard plastic and twit salescritters in VWs, me too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2020 22:45
|
|
|
Westy543 posted:Is the e-tron switching to MEB? I thought it was staying on their premium electric platform along with the Taycan. I think Volkswagen intends to keep both platforms relevant, but that might be outdated info. Either way, yeah, the I-Pace is just too drat expensive to be worth it for the majority. I don’t think it is but the Q4 is going to be based on the id4 and is rumored to run from 45k-65k with a range over 250 mi which is much more in the realm of EV someone would want to buy. E: GM is also having their Lyriq presentation on the 6th and that is square in the etrons price point with next gen EV tech inside Jimong5 fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Jul 28, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2020 23:16
|
|
|
Edward IV posted:Me too. Those videos definitely sold me on the Polestar but the price and the fact that the NJ rebate ($25 per mile range with a max of $5000) cuts out above $55,000 took it out of the running. Not great, but you can't really blame it on Geely. They had a bunch of aging product and redesigned everything at once, like in car systems, electronics, powertrains, platforms, etc. That never goes well for a small company. It was the same Swedes doing the work as before.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2020 23:20
|
|
|
drat I priced out a polestar 2 and that poo poo is expensive in Canada at about 83k CAD after taxes. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2020 23:30
|
|
|
dialhforhero posted:I can then only assume that since no e-Golfs are sold new in my region I am SOL on maintenance. Check out a Hyundai Ioniq EV (not hybrid) if you're looking on Carvana. Better range than the eGolf, charges faster, very efficient and can be had for in the teens.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2020 23:56
|
|
|
Here in the Atlanta area, there's tons of CCS Type 1 DCFC stations that are free. Most of these free stations aren't fast but my Energica Ego only charges at 26kW so they're more than enough for me. But any car charging at that speed would get 96 mph. In a way I'm glad Teslas don't have the ability to use CCS Type 1 in North America so they won't overcrowd what little stations there are out there. Nfcknblvbl fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jul 29, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 04:00
|
|
|
Paywalled article about this study 
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 18:16
|
|
|
Doing my part to combat climate change! *NG peaker fires up* Seriously though, TOU billing is probably the only reliable way to get most people charging off-peak. You can design all the smart charging systems you want, but people will defeat it or refuse to participate unless their actions hit them in the wallet. Related to this issue, I think there should be tax breaks/incentives/whatever other programs to promote employers to install chargers for employee use, even if they're just slow charging. Put some of this excess solar to use, and uh.... flatten the curve. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 19:17
|
|
|
pun pundit posted:Cars with battery thermal management will keep their batteries in spec temperatures when parked, especially when plugged in. I'd like more information on this because I know how tricky batteries are and it's hard to find actual information online to calm my nerves regarding them. So say your car is parked in a hot parking lot in the summer- will it start running an air conditioner or something to keep itself cool? A heater when the opposite is true and it's winter? How much juice does this take out of the battery while it's running and how long could a car sit on its own before it has to give up and allow the batteries to be damaged? How much power will it pull out of the wall to do the same?
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 19:38
|
|
|
angryrobots posted:Doing my part to combat climate change! *NG peaker fires up* TOU billing won't help anything described in that article since it would require employers to accommodate workplace charging for everyone, not some choice by individuals. People already push charging to night right now due to TOU billing where applicable, but when you're concerned about lining up with solar generation rather than fossil fuel generation, you're pushing the high supply into a time window when people are going to be at work assuming we ever go back to work.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 19:38
|
|
|
PIZZA.BAT posted:I'd like more information on this because I know how tricky batteries are and it's hard to find actual information online to calm my nerves regarding them. So say your car is parked in a hot parking lot in the summer- will it start running an air conditioner or something to keep itself cool? A heater when the opposite is true and it's winter? How much juice does this take out of the battery while it's running and how long could a car sit on its own before it has to give up and allow the batteries to be damaged? How much power will it pull out of the wall to do the same? This is quite a loaded question. It really depends on the particular EV.. Tesla's will cool the battery, even when unplugged, if they start to get really really hot but will eventually stop once the battery reaches a low enough SoC%. But it won't do anything if its unplugged and really cold. The Bolt EV will supposedly cool the battery in extreme hot temperatures even when unplugged under basically the same parameters. Heat does damage, whereas cold doesn't. Hence why they follow this strategy. Pretty much every EV on the market, and even some PHEVs with active management will maintain battery temperature when plugged in. I see this with my '17 Volt... It tries to prevent the battery from dipping below 48F or so and it will turn the battery heater on occasionally while plugged in. I can see it happen with my power usage meter. It amounts to maybe an additional $1 per month or so in the winter. It will also run the A/C when plugged in to chil the battery in the summer if needed. Long term storage unplugged can be an issue, as it is with any car. For Volts anyways, GM recommends leaving it plugged in. Unless its going to be more than a couple months, then they recommend discharging to 50% and disconnecting the 12v battery to stop any vampire drain. Tesla's have a complete power down mode that shuts down everything for long term storage. Really... don't worry about it. Unless you have a Nissan Leaf. They famously don't have active cooling. And suffer badly because of it. Battery replacements are fairly common with them. They don't do well being fast charged a lot... or living in a hot climate for an extended period of time. This is not a trend seen with EVs that have active thermal management. stevewm fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jul 29, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 20:00
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Not great, but you can't really blame it on Geely. They had a bunch of aging product and redesigned everything at once, like in car systems, electronics, powertrains, platforms, etc. That never goes well for a small company. It was the same Swedes doing the work as before. I have 25k miles on a 2018 V90 cross country. Time will tell, but it has been problem and rattle free this far.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 20:05
|
|
|
Ola posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZxAeMBtoSg Capacitive touch switches in a vehicle? No thank you. I have enough trouble using my phone in the car as a passenger. Trying to adjust that poo poo while driving would be a nightmare.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 20:13
|
|
|
Terminus Est posted:I have 25k miles on a 2018 V90 cross country. Time will tell, but it has been problem and rattle free this far. Have you shared this is the post your ride thread? If not, would you be willing to because I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in loving the V90.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 20:20
|
|
|
Heating/Cooling the battery doesn't really factor in because it turns out managing the temperature of a battery pack is pretty easy for an electrical system designed to propel a 3,500lb object at 80 mph.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 20:21
|
|
|
Outlines for Hummer truck and Hummer SUV BEVs:
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 20:41
|
|
|
but why?
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 20:59
|
|
|
stevewm posted:This is quite a loaded question. It really depends on the particular EV.. Tesla's will cool the battery, even when unplugged, if they start to get really really hot but will eventually stop once the battery reaches a low enough SoC%. But it won't do anything if its unplugged and really cold. The Bolt EV will supposedly cool the battery in extreme hot temperatures even when unplugged under basically the same parameters. Gotcha. I figured this was a solved problem because I haven't heard of it being one yet and definitely would have by now with how long they've been on the road. I just didn't like not actually knowing how it worked. Thanks So basically going out and about for the day and leaving it in the elements isn't going to drain the battery. It may take a bit of a hit but it's a small hit compared to the energy used for just driving in general
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 21:11
|
|
|
I looked up the warranty on the Mach-e and saw that they're offering 8 years / 100k miles on the electrical system which is making it even harder for me to talk myself out of this. Guys help me talk myself out of this
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 21:13
|
|
|
gwrtheyrn posted:TOU billing won't help anything described in that article since it would require employers to accommodate workplace charging for everyone, not some choice by individuals. People already push charging to night right now due to TOU billing where applicable, but when you're concerned about lining up with solar generation rather than fossil fuel generation, you're pushing the high supply into a time window when people are going to be at work assuming we ever go back to work. TOU billing doesn't necessarily have anything to do with workplace charging? Residential TOU billing would create an incentive to charge off-peak, either by behavior changes and/or participating in smart charging systems (to be implemented). Specifically, it helps with scenario #2 in the posted article where EV adoption can continue without massive upgrades in distribution and more NG usage to accommodate bigger daily peaks. Yes, ideally workplace charging becomes the norm which also shifts load to solar, but the article didn't say this was part of their study or the two given scenarios.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 21:27
|
|
|
PIZZA.BAT posted:I looked up the warranty on the Mach-e and saw that they're offering 8 years / 100k miles on the electrical system which is making it even harder for me to talk myself out of this. Guys help me talk myself out of this Are you planning on having it in the next year? If so, and if you're in the US, I have some bad news for you...
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 21:28
|
|
|
PIZZA.BAT posted:So basically going out and about for the day and leaving it in the elements isn't going to drain the battery. It may take a bit of a hit but it's a small hit compared to the energy used for just driving in general Nope! Also remember that a battery is a very dense object thus with a lot of thermal mass. It can take quite some time for them to heat up or cool down from external influence.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 21:34
|
|
|
Darchangel posted:Capacitive touch switches in a vehicle? No thank you. I have enough trouble using my phone in the car as a passenger. Trying to adjust that poo poo while driving would be a nightmare. I saw in one test a guy having problems selecting +1 or +10 on the cruise control, since it depended where on the capacitive surface you touched. Also accidental touches galore and the dumb "haptic feedback", a concept which never addressed or even properly understood the problem it tried to solve. It would be a better car if they took the buttons from the e-Golf, or just ripped off the Model 3. The small display attached to the steering column is great though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 21:40
|
|
|
gwrtheyrn posted:Are you planning on having it in the next year? If so, and if you're in the US, I have some bad news for you... Ah. I thought they were going to be rolling out in the next month. Well that’s disappointing
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 21:40
|
|
|
PIZZA.BAT posted:Ah. I thought they were going to be rolling out in the next month. Well that’s disappointing I think Ford desperately needs to meet some EV mandate in the EU or be hosed, so they are gonna ship the entire first run there to meet the deadline.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 21:44
|
|
|
Yeah, they're allocating like <1/3 of them for the first year to the US. It's going to be pretty scarce pickings even if it's officially launched in a month. This isn't to say you won't be able to get one or that you shouldn't, but it may not be available and the dealer might gently caress you hard since they know there aren't that many staying in the US
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 21:49
|
|
|
PIZZA.BAT posted:I looked up the warranty on the Mach-e and saw that they're offering 8 years / 100k miles on the electrical system which is making it even harder for me to talk myself out of this. Guys help me talk myself out of this buy the goddamn horse  (if it's available near you, anyway)
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 21:57
|
|
|
That's the first time I'm even hearing that they're bringing the Mach-E to the Europe. The Mustang brand just isn't much of a thing outside of car nerds so I'm wondering what their angle's going to be. Well probably "electric CUV buy buy buy!" and dump all of them in Norway.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 22:24
|
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:That's the first time I'm even hearing that they're bringing the Mach-E to the Europe. The Mustang brand just isn't much of a thing outside of car nerds so I'm wondering what their angle's going to be. Well probably "electric CUV buy buy buy!" and dump all of them in Norway. And we'll buy them, now that it seems sales tax is coming back for EVs in the not too distant future (1-3 years).
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 23:01
|
|
|
Ford dealers are absolutely terrible when it comes to low allocation/high demand models. Most are asking above MSRP for Mach E's and many aren't honoring the various friends and family/vendor Plan pricing. They were the same way when I tried to buy a Lightning back in the day, when I was looking at a first year Thunderbird (glad I didn't buy that one) and when I was looking at a Raptor. The Mach E is the same way so expect to wait unless you're willing to pay above MSRP.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 23:05
|
|
|
At what point in time will most manufacturers get fed up enough with the regional laws preventing them from selling directly to the consumer that they will A) Lobby to have those laws removed B) Allow an individual to complete the paperwork to be considered a dealer by allowing them to fold those associated local costs into the vehicle purchase price? Because, if every single dealer is preventing me from ordering something from the manufacturer and paying MSRP but will sell to me right away if I'm a registered car dealer, you bet I'm paying the ~$1000 (in my municipality anyways) to become one.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 23:31
|
|
|
PIZZA.BAT posted:I looked up the warranty on the Mach-e and saw that they're offering 8 years / 100k miles on the electrical system which is making it even harder for me to talk myself out of this. Guys help me talk myself out of this I would help you out, were I not a bigger dumbass for reserving a Polestar 2 1500 miles away from the nearest place that can service it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 23:31
|
|
|
angryrobots posted:TOU billing doesn't necessarily have anything to do with workplace charging? Residential TOU billing would create an incentive to charge off-peak, either by behavior changes and/or participating in smart charging systems (to be implemented). Specifically, it helps with scenario #2 in the posted article where EV adoption can continue without massive upgrades in distribution and more NG usage to accommodate bigger daily peaks. Best option is both, of course.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 23:33
|
|
|
MomJeans420 posted:but why? Because no one ever buys anything but trucks and SUVs, duh. Any auto manufacturer knows that! Or were you asking "why outlines" rather than "why another CUV/SUV"? I actually welcome the electric pickup, even though it will likely cost more than twice my annual salary. Maybe 1.5x. Ola posted:I saw in one test a guy having problems selecting +1 or +10 on the cruise control, since it depended where on the capacitive surface you touched. Also accidental touches galore and the dumb "haptic feedback", a concept which never addressed or even properly understood the problem it tried to solve. It would be a better car if they took the buttons from the e-Golf, or just ripped off the Model 3. The small display attached to the steering column is great though. Yeah, "haptic feedback" still never tells you *what* you're going to tap, just that you *have*. edit: changed emphasis in that last sentence.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 23:34
|
|
|
McTinkerson posted:At what point in time will most manufacturers get fed up enough with the regional laws preventing them from selling directly to the consumer that they will Manufacturers love dealers. They serve as a buffer to even out production and as a layer of financial protection. They have no interest in selling directly to the consumer. I suspect Tesla will drop or at least significantly scale back direct-to-consumer deliveries once they get big enough.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2020 23:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 15:41 |
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:That's the first time I'm even hearing that they're bringing the Mach-E to the Europe. The Mustang brand just isn't much of a thing outside of car nerds so I'm wondering what their angle's going to be. Well probably "electric CUV buy buy buy!" and dump all of them in Norway. When Ford brought the Mustang to Europe a few years back it sold much better than expected even at an absurd price.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2020 00:02
|
|