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Rutibex posted:i would totally go back to Quake 2 graphics. i played Minecraft for years i dont give a gently caress about graphics or ray trace or whatever. its all about the gameplay You don't get better gameplay by reducing graphical quality or vice versa, they're completely orthogonal parts of a game. Take Hollow Knight, its gameplay is excellent and its art and sound production is top notch
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Jul 30, 2020 05:52
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*Sits at programmer desk and starts moving two levers labeled "graphics" and "gameplay" back and forth*
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Jul 30, 2020 05:57
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lol
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Jul 30, 2020 06:54
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Problem is a lot of that fancy rear end graphics technology gets used in games so otherwise generic and forgettable that it doesn't matter five minutes later. Especially in the lost decade of brown and bloom. Of all the graphical fads video games had, it seems like cel shading is the one that's held up. Games and cartoon aesthetics have always gone together well.
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Jul 30, 2020 07:02
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the worst thing about brownbloom is that the games are often visually unclear, even back then i thought that when games started introducing bloom and bumpmapping and stuff it was a downgrade not an upgrade thief 2: https://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/22898-thief-ii-the-metal-age-windows-screenshot-look-it-s-a-bank.jpg all of the elements stand out, the cameras are obvious and from the decorations its clear that this is a bank and you can tell that its not a safe place, if youre familiar with the game, its also nice and colorful thief 3: https://www.mobygames.com/images/promo/original/1517378303-1038692495.jpg whats even going on here? i can see some shadowy figures but because of the lighting you cant really see what they look like or who they are or even who the player is aiming at. place looks like a super generic castle or some poo poo but i cant tell exactly. its boring
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Jul 30, 2020 07:30
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deus ex: https://images.eurogamer.net/2013/06/06/112257-DeusEx1.jpg this is a particularly boring screenshot of deus ex but its obvious who the enemies are. there are some obvious powerups and stuff on the shelves and theres a big colorful box in the corner that clearly contains some ammo deus ex 2: https://www.digiseller.ru/preview/295444/p1_1772716_fc46ee9c.jpg looks like it takes place in the same goddamned castle as in thief 3 even though its supposedly set in the future. omar is as grey as the rocks surrounding him, shadows are weird and its not clear to me where i can walk and where id bump into some wonky physics object
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Jul 30, 2020 07:36
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Problem is a lot of that fancy rear end graphics technology gets used in games so otherwise generic and forgettable that it doesn't matter five minutes later. Especially in the lost decade of brown and bloom. Game graphics have moved past that contrived stage and look great now though. You can't say that Ghost of Tsushima, Horizon Zero Dawn and God of War aren't lovely looking colourful games. Red Dead 2 creates amazing vistas and vibes. I like games that achieve a heavy atmosphere and graphics help that a lot.
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Jul 30, 2020 08:20
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QuarkJets posted:You don't get better gameplay by reducing graphical quality or vice versa, they're completely orthogonal parts of a game. Take Hollow Knight, its gameplay is excellent and its art and sound production is top notch lurker2006 fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 08:24
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lurker2006 posted:The immense, inhuman amount of resources dedicated to tertiary fidelity has neutered the industry. We're living in a veritable golden age of good video games covering basically any combination of features that you may want, I don't think "neutered" accurately describes the state of things
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Jul 30, 2020 08:27
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QuarkJets posted:We're living in a veritable golden age of good video games covering basically any combination of features that you may want, I don't think "neutered" accurately describes the state of things That golden age is isolated to segments that can bypass the fidelity demands.
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Jul 30, 2020 08:38
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lurker2006 posted:That golden age is isolated to segments that can bypass the fidelity demands. Which segments are unable to bypass these fidelity demands to which you're alluding? I'm having trouble thinking of a single genre that requires the resources of a AAA development team. FPS games are rife with titles that push the limits on graphical quality, yet there are countless excellent FPS titles that can basically run on a toaster.
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Jul 30, 2020 08:45
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QuarkJets posted:Which segments are unable to bypass these fidelity demands to which you're alluding? I'm having trouble thinking of a single genre that requires the resources of a AAA development team. FPS games are rife with titles that push the limits on graphical quality, yet there are countless excellent FPS titles that can basically run on a toaster. AA and AAA level games. The last few years have been great for indies sure, but most major studios have ground to a halt. In the past it was reasonable for flagship titles to get cranked out on a 2-3 year clip, we just went through essentially one game per generation release cycles.
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Jul 30, 2020 08:53
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The huge expense of doing all the art for an ultra-high-fidelity AAA game means publishers are a lot more conservative with their "investment" and a lot less willing to let devs take risks with new ideas.
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Jul 30, 2020 09:32
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Also a big part of what made the HD transition basically a mass extinction event for developers only matched by the 3D leap.
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Jul 30, 2020 09:35
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William Henry Hairytaint posted:Most of the Watch Dogs criticism I remember was about Aiden being a Dark Knight Jr. more than anything specific to the gameplay. Some folks had issues with the vehicle handling. I thought it was a fun game and it's one of very few triple A open world games I actually completed. Aw man, I LOVED Watch Dogs 2, because despite how it opens, for the vast majority of the game you're totally safe from harm if you want to be. Like it felt similar to death stranding in how you keep levelling up all these guns without ever firing them once unless you go out of your way for it. That sounds like it would be boring, but you're still doing all the cool missions and exploring the open world and doing side missions and stuff, and the threat is always there if you want to confront it. It's just that you can actually play it as an open world cybercrime game, as advertised. These days that's SO rare. Like if there was an open world golf game, you wouldn't really bat an eyelid if it turned out you also shoot people with lots of different types of guns in it (maybe your caddy suggests different guns for different scenarios? It writes itself). Most games 'say' you can play them entirely stealth, but then you have a gun in your field of view 100% of the game and doing it stealthily is just a more tedious way to play. I really enjoyed exploring San Fran, too, and then when we visited a bunch of places were actually familiar. That's kind of gimmicky I guess but I really enjoyed it. As such I'm really really looking forward to WD3, set in my own Lahndan taaaaaaaahn. 'Ardest game in thu wurld ol' Lahndan is. And while I'm sure they've probably taken some liberties, the first thing I saw was a video playing a clip of the game, and before I knew what the video was about I was like "Oh, cool, Piccadilly circus in a computer game!" so they've at least got some bits perfect!
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Jul 30, 2020 09:39
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what are these super risky and weird games you guys are talking about that we are missing out on like what were we getting 15 years ago that was so interesting
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Jul 30, 2020 09:39
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Caesar Saladin posted:what are these super risky and weird games you guys are talking about that we are missing out on Katamari Damacy comes to mind immediately.
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Jul 30, 2020 09:46
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Katamari Damacy comes to mind immediately. that game seems like it could easily be a modern indie game or even a ps4 game like bugsnax, i'm not sure what precludes a game like that from existing nowadays its not like these massive overbudgeted AAA games come from japan either.
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Jul 30, 2020 09:52
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Caesar Saladin posted:that game seems like it could easily be a modern indie game or even a ps4 game like bugsnax, i'm not sure what precludes a game like that from existing nowadays The point is they could exist today but that's only a very recent thing- there was a 10 year stretch where they couldn't because middle-budget titles died completely when everything had to be AAA and digital distribution wasn't really a thing yet. Basically a lost decade. A shitload of genres went extinct and anything new basically had to be snuck through the development process; Demon's Souls in particular barely got any traction and reviewed poorly in Japan because they had no idea what to make of it and players expected it to play like a musou.
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Jul 30, 2020 10:19
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Things are okay now is my point, Demon's Souls has like 5 games that follow after it and a bunch of ripoffs. The xbox 360 era was bad but games are good right now with tons of variety. I mean they're about to make like, the 9th Yakuza game. There are a big variety of video games now, weird and niche and also lame standard ones too.
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Jul 30, 2020 10:32
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Did this whole thing just not apply to PC? Because I’ve been buying weird and low/middle budget poo poo this whole time. Loves me some eurojank RPGs.
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Jul 30, 2020 11:14
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Console gaming has always been lacklustre
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Jul 30, 2020 11:40
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Did this whole thing just not apply to PC? Because I’ve been buying weird and low/middle budget poo poo this whole time. Loves me some eurojank RPGs. PC was pretty much the refuge for middleware along with handhelds, hence why the PSP has so many visual novels and weird stuff.
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Jul 30, 2020 11:43
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Ghost Leviathan posted:PC was pretty much the refuge for middleware along with handhelds, hence why the PSP has so many visual novels and weird stuff. That kind of points towards licensing/patching fees and actually getting your games in front of people via limited space in retail stores being the issue, instead of graphics.
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Jul 30, 2020 11:51
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I'm late to the 3ds chat but the 3ds Zelda is the only game that has used 3d in a way that doesn't instantly make me go googly eyed, it also uses perspective really well in most dungeons, it's also a great loving zelda game. I got myopia so maybe that's got something to do with it. Mario 3d world is a great game but the 3d strains my eyes super quickly sadly. Also nthing everything about motion blur, film grain, etc. I already have lovely vision IRL, I wear glasses to remove that poo poo, don't add it back!!
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Jul 30, 2020 12:54
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The point is they could exist today but that's only a very recent thing- there was a 10 year stretch where they couldn't because middle-budget titles died completely when everything had to be AAA and digital distribution wasn't really a thing yet. Basically a lost decade. I mean, I don't doubt you, but I don't really know exactly what you mean? Because like, the Neverhood Chronicles, Creepers, Vib Ribbon, Oddworld, Unholy War, No one can stop mister domino, Omikron, Ico, Zeno Clash, Journey, etc, all happened, there are lots more like them, and non of them were the things I would consider niche indie games, of which there were TONS of weird games? Which ten year period are you talking about? I guess you're talking about stuff between these and indie games?
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Jul 30, 2020 13:03
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Barudak posted:I was older than I should have been but I couldn't bring myself to ever play Counter-Strike again when I found out the bullet spray patterns were pre determined.  everything in a computer game is predetermined QuarkJets posted:You don't get better gameplay by reducing graphical quality or vice versa, they're completely orthogonal parts of a game. Take Hollow Knight, its gameplay is excellent and its art and sound production is top notch Hollow Knight isn't what i mean when i say "graphics". i'm talking about attempts at photorealism and higher res textures and weather dependent horseballs Rutibex fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 14:32
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Caesar Saladin posted:what are these super risky and weird games you guys are talking about that we are missing out on we are not really missing out on anything. indy games are the only games worth playing these days, and there is more than ever
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Jul 30, 2020 14:36
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sounds like more of a case of you becoming an old man
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Jul 30, 2020 14:37
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Rutibex posted:we are not really missing out on anything. indy games are the only games worth playing these days, and there is more than ever 
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Jul 30, 2020 14:38
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An unpopular opinion about a whole genre of video games: I don't care about gear in MMOs except for pretty princess purposes. I regard gear as nothing but a means to an end, and if there's no ends I care about that require a specific level of gear to do, I don't give a poo poo about improving my gear, running hard dungeons, doing PvP, raiding, or grinding. I'm over the whole gear treadmill, and it's kind of a relief, to me, to hit the endgame in an MMO and be content to stop because there's nothing to do at endgame that isn't jumping on the treadmill.
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Jul 30, 2020 14:39
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Cythereal posted:An unpopular opinion about a whole genre of video games: I don't care about gear in MMOs except for pretty princess purposes. I regard gear as nothing but a means to an end, and if there's no ends I care about that require a specific level of gear to do, I don't give a poo poo about improving my gear, running hard dungeons, doing PvP, raiding, or grinding. Have you tried Sea of Thieves? Its a progressionless game where the only rewards are more clothes to dressup in.
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Jul 30, 2020 14:41
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I can't be bothered with any videogame that requires me to remember or care about anything session to session. The best videogames are the ones you can play for 5 minutes or 5 hours and have broadly the same experience... rocket league, binding of isaac, Diablo, maybe counterstrike if your idea of a videogame is realistically murdering human people.
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Jul 30, 2020 14:41
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Barudak posted:Have you tried Sea of Thieves? Its a progressionless game where the only rewards are more clothes to dressup in. Looks like forced group content for everything, so nope.
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Jul 30, 2020 14:43
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!Klams posted:I mean, I don't doubt you, but I don't really know exactly what you mean? Because like, the Neverhood Chronicles, Creepers, Vib Ribbon, Oddworld, Unholy War, No one can stop mister domino, Omikron, Ico, Zeno Clash, Journey, etc, all happened, there are lots more like them, and non of them were the things I would consider niche indie games, of which there were TONS of weird games? Which ten year period are you talking about? I guess you're talking about stuff between these and indie games? Mostly around 2006-2016, or the launch of the PS3/360? A shitload of devs struggled to adapt to HD development and went broke trying or were screwed over by their publishers every step of the way, a ton of franchises disappeared, pretty sure this was peak EA devouring its subsidies and Microsoft getting in on the action too. I bet a lot of the things you named were before or after that.
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Jul 30, 2020 15:23
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Vakal posted:The 90's were a magical time for video game magazines. Jesus christ, lol Now I'm starting to see why old people think video games cause school violence.
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Jul 30, 2020 16:07
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JollyBoyJohn posted:I can't be bothered with any videogame that requires me to remember or care about anything session to session. Realistic is not an adjective I'd use to describe counterstrike.
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Jul 30, 2020 16:25
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ilmucche posted:Realistic is not an adjective I'd use to describe counterstrike. I mean in comparison to Overwatch or Valorant
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Jul 30, 2020 16:27
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In therapy for PTSD after playing the ultra realistic murder simulator Counter-Strike while also thinking about planting a real bomb somewhere, I"m trained for it, it's simple, put it on the floor and stand around the corner eight feet away.
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Jul 30, 2020 16:29
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Shibawanko posted:deus ex: https://images.eurogamer.net/2013/06/06/112257-DeusEx1.jpg This was the time though where the unified renderer was the next big thing, the holy grail of "next gen graphics". See Doom 3. The engine where moving objects are not rendered over a pre-lighting-baked level architecture, but everything was rendered in the same go. Imo, it was jaw-dropping back then, even seeing the pitch-black Doom 3 stencil-shadows vs. the Unreal Engine real-time shadow maps, and it took some time until everyone realized it doesn't add that much to the gaming experience. Still everyone had to have the best shadows, and the darkest environments to show off dynamic shadows. Until studios realized that it actually doesn't matter that much...
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Jul 30, 2020 16:59
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