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Wife is finally on board with ditching the Grand Caravan and replacing it with something that isn't loving awful to drive in every conceivable way. Yay! Proposed Budget: Would like to keep it under $40k New or Used: Slightly used. Body Style: An SUV that seats 6 comfortably. I have 4 kids and they're all loving giants. How will you be using the car? It will mostly be my commuter (~40 miles each way), but needs to be able to fit the whole family comfortably as well. Vacations, trips to in-laws, etc... If I could put a tow rig on it, that would be swell as well. What aspects are most important to you? Reliability, comfort (roominess, I'm also a giant), mpg and a little luxuries are what matter. My current commuter is a RAV4 Sport with 150k miles on it that I bought at 28k miles and it's been fantastic. I plan to keep that and let the wife use that. The Dodge had an oil pump fail literally on day 2, an insane feature where you push down on the gas pedal and the car actually decelerates before accelerating, and an incredibly irritating vibration at highway speeds that 4 different auto technicians could not solve. gently caress that car, and gently caress Dodge. I keep reading good things about the Kia Telluride, and I'm slowly working my wife around to the idea of buying a KIA.
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Jul 30, 2020 01:34
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JimboMaloi posted:Both, closer to 200mi/mo, don’t care about HOV, and yeah manual not in the cards for now. The BFC part of me would get an e-bike if I were only driving 200 miles a month, and rent a car for longer trips, because cars are expensive. Buy a car whenever you move instead of buying the car in anticipation of the move. SouthShoreSamurai posted:Wife is finally on board with ditching the Grand Caravan and replacing it with something that isn't loving awful to drive in every conceivable way. Yay! How important is towing to you, and what would you be towing? If you will be regularly towing near or above the Telluride's 5000 lb tow capacity, I would go with a Chevy Suburban or a Ford Expedition Max. Nothing else combines room for 6 and towing capacity like those two vehicles. You'll pay for it everywhere else: a Telluride gets 22 MPG or 37.5% better fuel economy vs the 16 a Suburban gets in combined real-world driving per Fuelly. Kia has made solid vehicles for over a decade now, and the Telluride is a great vehicle if you can brave your local Kia dealer. Never pay above MSRP. Bring your large adult sons with you to make sure the third row is good enough.
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Jul 30, 2020 02:24
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SouthShoreSamurai posted:Wife is finally on board with ditching the Grand Caravan and replacing it with something that isn't loving awful to drive in every conceivable way. Yay! Sequoias are pretty nice and they can do 7,100 lb. They are quite large and roomy inside, but I'm not especially large so I wouldn't know. Echoing the "bring your kids" comment for any vehicle you check out
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Jul 30, 2020 02:45
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I don't think any SUV regardless of size seats 6 adults comfortably. 3rd rows even on Expeditions and Tahoes are best left to those 16 and under. The 3rd row on standard size SUV's cut into storage space considerably as well. I shopped the Expedition last year when my Explorer lease was up, and there isn't really that much more usable space in the Expedition than the Explorer. We'd have to move to the Expedition Max to get 3 full rows and lots of space. My Explorer can tow 5K, and the Expedition is good for over 8K. Unfortunately the Minivan is the undisputed king of moving more than 4 adults in comfort. Something else to think about (maybe), there are multiple large families in my neighboorhood and several of them have MB Sprinter vans. My next door neighbor has 6 kids and they have a diesel MB Sprinter van that tow a smaller trailer with on long road trips. The Kia Telluride/Hyundai Pallisade are very nice vehicles.
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Jul 30, 2020 02:52
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232 is ok on any full size suv. That’s (counting) more than 6
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Jul 30, 2020 02:54
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SouthShoreSamurai posted:Wife is finally on board with ditching the Grand Caravan and replacing it with something that isn't loving awful to drive in every conceivable way. Yay! You aren't going to be able to find a Kia Telluride used. Possibly the Ford Flex? You're really in van territory though.
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Jul 30, 2020 12:28
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Seems like you're just noticing a transmission that goes to the highest gear as quickly as possible and then is slow to kick down under acceleration. I guess make sure to test drive whatever you're looking at thoroughly to make sure it doesn't do the same thing. I get that Chrysler isn't the best maker of FWD transmissions (or any kind of transmission before they adopted the ZF 8HP) out there but I don't think Ford or GM are particularly better, best to stick with Toyota and cars using Aisin transmissions.
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Jul 30, 2020 13:16
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I'm going to schedule a test drive for a Prius soon, based on the advice of this thread. I kinda want to drive it and then sleep on it, but I know there's a chance I'll just want to get it out of the way rather than waiting for the next time I manage to be free. So, what do i need to do ahead of time to be ready to get a car? I assume bring a check for the down payment and any trade ins, title etc, but I don't know what else.
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Jul 30, 2020 15:21
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i would advise not buying a car on your first test drive the purpose of the test drive is 1) to confirm that you want this particular KIND of car. if you haven't driven a prius before, you may absolutely hate the driving experience (hello!). 2) to confirm that you want to buy this SPECIFIC car (used vehicles only) For the former, you want to test a bunch of poo poo. Start off with driving. Don't listen to the radio or any poo poo like that. Go drive, city, highway, hit some place with potholes, try to pass on the freeway, etc. You should be driving for 15 mins or so. Make sure you can get everything adjusted, visibility is good, you are comfortable in the seat, etc. Then test out some of the other features - make sure your phone pairs or plugs in, that the call quality is decent, play with the infotainment, navigation, climate controls, etc. Put your seat in a driving position and sit in the back seat to gauge room (important if you ever drive people, if it's a pure solo commuter who cars). If you have kids or carseats or weird high bulk items like musical instruments test those out. For the latter, it's basically the same. You will want to have driven at least a couple of the example car so you can gauge if anything seems "off" about the drive. Then do what you would do on the first test drive. Also check stuff like - do all the windows work? do all the lights work correctly? pop open the engine bay and see poo poo looks hosed (heavily corroded, dirt/leaves/animal nests, some things looking very shiny and new that aren't documented, etc). If in a salt state, check in common rust areas (these are documented for every specific car on owner forums). Then get the car PPI'd.
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Jul 30, 2020 15:43
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To answer your other question, you really do not need to bring that much stuff to buy a car 1) A way to pay for the car. This includes a check for the downpayment if any, a check to pay in cash, proof of financing if you're BYO financing, or a couple forms of ID if you are taking the dealer's financing. 2) If you are trading in, the title for your trade. 3) Some form of ID, best to bring a couple. 4) If you are financing through the dealer, you may need some kind of proof of income. 5) If you want to transfer your registration from an old car but are not trading the car in (possibly because you have already sold it) you will need the registration from that car and the plate.
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Jul 30, 2020 15:51
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What are generally considered the best reliability ratings for vehicles? I've noticed some pretty big discrepancies in terms of how they are rated. Repairpal (which is partnered with carmax) puts the honda HR-V as the most reliable vehicle for 2019. But JD Power gives it 2.5 out of 5, way below most of its competitors. Consumer reports seems to be the one that most closely links with public perception (e.g., CR ranks prius first, but neither of the ones mentioned before have it in the top 5), but that is unsurprising given that it is survey based.
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Jul 30, 2020 16:42
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joepinetree posted:What are generally considered the best reliability ratings for vehicles? I've noticed some pretty big discrepancies in terms of how they are rated. JD power is based on the number of complaints received from owners, and as far as I have ever heard is a terrible metric for anything.
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Jul 30, 2020 17:24
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A truly good reliability metric is near impossible. Counting problems is hugely flawed because what constitutes a problem? Is the radio not working because the customer doesn't know how to use it, or because Sync keeps crashing? Is the audio quality muffled because the dash tweeters are blown, or because the customer put a dashmat on top of them? Was the poor shifting fixed by a transmission fluid change, or is it a fundamental design problem in the transmission? You'd need incredibly detailed data from manufacturers, which none of them want to provide. When you rely on user reports, you have to take everything with a pinch of salt. You don't know whether any one case was actually a mechanical defect, a design flaw, or the owner's teenager banging off the rev limiter for an hour. Also, how much public information can there be on a two year old car? If there's something that isn't likely to fail until, say, 120k miles, very few examples would have even reached that point yet. Anytime you buy a vehicle you are taking a gamble on reliability. No way around that. Buying new, you can hedge your bets by buying from manufacturers who have a good track record, or a model that uses a lot of proven / carryover parts, but you still aren't ever going to know if the specific example you get is a gem or a turd until you actually put some miles and time on it. Buying used, depending on how long that vehicle has been around there will be more user experiences, but then you're adding the unknown of "what did the PO do to this thing". TL;DR I really doubt a Honda HRV is actually unreliable in a meaningful way.
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Jul 30, 2020 19:01
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I know some people have a beef with them, but I think that Consumer Reports does a good enough job to at least give you a steer on the relative reliability between vehicles. Anecdotally, my dad has car issues going back 20+ years and when I was hitting the various Volvo forums to figure out potential problem areas with my 2004 XC70 the general consensus 16 years in matched up with CR's used car reliability survey data from 5 years in. The survey isn't just "do you feel like your car is reliable" either, it's, did your car require a trip to the mechanic in the last 6 months, what was the problem area, and then criteria for it being major or minor. I still get those survey questions on my 2003 and 2004 cars even though I have no idea where that data is actually going. I think the average consumer looking for a car could do a lot worse than just picking up a CR car issue and looking over their options. powderific fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 19:24
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Godzilla07 posted:How important is towing to you, and what would you be towing? If you will be regularly towing near or above the Telluride's 5000 lb tow capacity, I would go with a Chevy Suburban or a Ford Expedition Max. Nothing else combines room for 6 and towing capacity like those two vehicles. You'll pay for it everywhere else: a Telluride gets 22 MPG or 37.5% better fuel economy vs the 16 a Suburban gets in combined real-world driving per Fuelly. Towing is by far the least important of my wants. Cool if it can do it, doesn't need to tow a lot. Just be able to hook up a trailer to go grab some fallen tree wood or tow bikes or whatever. Not pulling boats or campers or anything. Throatwarbler posted:Seems like you're just noticing a transmission that goes to the highest gear as quickly as possible and then is slow to kick down under acceleration. I guess make sure to test drive whatever you're looking at thoroughly to make sure it doesn't do the same thing. It's more than slow. It's a total loss of power for anywhere between .5 and 1.5 seconds. Honestly it's borderline dangerous if you ever needed power suddenly for any reason. It also then overcorrects because your natural reaction is to push down a little harder on the gas, so then you shoot past the gear you want into super-high gear. It's atrocious. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:You aren't going to be able to find a Kia Telluride used. drat, this is a good point that I hadn't even thought of. (The used part. Definitely not getting a van.) Thanks for the help all.
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Jul 30, 2020 19:33
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SouthShoreSamurai posted:
Do the RPMs surge with your lack of power? If so sounds like the transmission is slipping. Every case is different but when I had low transmission fluid it would slip every time I tried giving it more than 25% gas. Another telltale sign of low transmission fluid (in most cars anyway) is slippage during left turns.
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Jul 30, 2020 20:18
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powderific posted:I know some people have a beef with them, but I think that Consumer Reports does a good enough job to at least give you a steer on the relative reliability between vehicles. Anecdotally, my dad has car issues going back 20+ years and when I was hitting the various Volvo forums to figure out potential problem areas with my 2004 XC70 the general consensus 16 years in matched up with CR's used car reliability survey data from 5 years in. The survey isn't just "do you feel like your car is reliable" either, it's, did your car require a trip to the mechanic in the last 6 months, what was the problem area, and then criteria for it being major or minor. I still get those survey questions on my 2003 and 2004 cars even though I have no idea where that data is actually going. I just took my CR survey today. But as thorough as it is, it is only as good as the perception of the person filling out the survey. My mom would swear up and down that the car she had when I was a teenager was an unreliable piece of poo poo. She had the receipts from the mechanic to prove it. But one day I asked to borrow it to go on a roadtrip with friends and ended up having to put 4 quarts of oil to get to the minimum mark on the dipstick.
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Jul 30, 2020 21:20
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Sure, that’s why they don’t just have one person’s response per car and won’t put a rating to it if they don’t have enough responses.
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Jul 30, 2020 21:27
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DildenAnders posted:Do the RPMs surge with your lack of power? If so sounds like the transmission is slipping. Every case is different but when I had low transmission fluid it would slip every time I tried giving it more than 25% gas. Another telltale sign of low transmission fluid (in most cars anyway) is slippage during left turns. No, the opposite. RPMs drop for that .5 - 1.5 secs.
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Jul 30, 2020 22:37
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SouthShoreSamurai posted:No, the opposite. RPMs drop for that .5 - 1.5 secs. I’m sure you realize this, but this is not normal, this isn’t something “they all do”, your car is hosed up. It’s a moot point now since you’re selling it, but I drive a bunch of Grand Caravans in the course of my job - mostly ‘16-17’s with the 3.6 motor, which I think is all they put in the GC - and none of them exhibit the behavior that you describe. They shift too drat early and don’t wanna downshift until you bury the throttle in ‘Eco’ mode, which is normal for most/all newer cars, and they accelerate fairly sprightly in destroy-the-planet mode. They’re pieces of poo poo for the most part, but power output/acceleration is fine.
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Jul 31, 2020 01:35
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So, I saw some discussion of "four squares' in the TFF chat thread, and even if I'm going to Carmax, that sort of intimidates me as a way I could get flimflammed. Also, MA does not seem to have a law against car loan pre-payment penalties (I believe my former home state of RI does have a law like that, but obviously paying additional use tax would almost certainly outstrip the penalty). With those facts combined, it makes me inclined to buy my next car outright with a check. Is there anything different that I would need to know ahead of time if I am paying cash?
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Aug 1, 2020 11:07
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OK first of all - God love the boys, girls, and nonbinary people in TFF but that's where you go to talk about football, not car buying. The foursquare is transparent and amateurish. Very few dealers use it at this point and Carmax won't as their whole deal is firm fixed price. The absolute most important thing you need to do to not get a bad deal on a car is to be willing to walk. Based on all your post so far, I get the sense that you Just Want To Get This Over With!! which is how you get hosed on a deal. You can always walk. There are hundreds of thousands of Toyota Priuses and if you don't buy the specific one you are looking at, nothing bad will happen to you. Do you have a friend that can go with you when you go to the dealership, ideally someone who knows a bit more about the process than you? I think that would be helpful. Even if they don't know poo poo, if you tell them what your objectives are and tell them to get you to walk if things go even slightly sideways, you'll be better off. When you're writing the check and receiving the shiny object, emotions tend to enter in to the situation a lot more. If you are paying in cash outright for a 10k car the dealer probably won't accept a personal check, or they'll wait for it to clear before turning the car over to you. These policies vary. I don't understand your post about prepayment and taxes. No prepayment penalties is not a reason to pay cash (if anything, the opposite), but at the roughly $10k used car market level there are not a lot of advantages to taking financing as there are no manufacturer incentives. I think it's worthwhile to get quotes on a loan if your credit score is decent, as rates are pretty good and you should be able to find under 4% for a used car note. You aren't obligated to take the financing and as you said, there are no prepayment penalties to just paying off the loan early if you so desire.
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Aug 1, 2020 14:36
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Magnetic North posted:So, I saw some discussion of "four squares' in the TFF chat thread, and even if I'm going to Carmax, that sort of intimidates me as a way I could get flimflammed. Also, MA does not seem to have a law against car loan pre-payment penalties (I believe my former home state of RI does have a law like that, but obviously paying additional use tax would almost certainly outstrip the penalty). With those facts combined, it makes me inclined to buy my next car outright with a check. The four-square sheet is just a way to get you to focus on monthly payments. It has a bad reputation, so a lot of dealers don't use that specific layout any more, but they will still do everything they can to make you think about cost-per-month instead of total purchase cost. Don't ever base what you can afford on the monthly payment cost. Carmax makes money by putting a high but not crazy unreasonable value on their cars, and refuses to haggle on them by one penny. If you can't fit one in your budget, they find you a different car rather than coming down on the one you liked before. You'll basically always overpay a bit compared to haggling well on a similar car through a different seller. But, they won't ever try to put you in a 1987 Cavalier at $250/month for 96 months, either. Their commissions aren't based on sales price, but their salespeople are paid based on how many cars they sell, so you can expect them to give you a bit of "what'll it take to get you into a car today" pressure. You can always walk away. The other place where Carmax makes money, like almost all dealerships, is upsales - the stuff that they throw on at the end after you've fallen in love with the car. Their salespeople, like every other dealership, get heavy incentives to get you to buy these very profitable extras, and are expected to keep their take rate above a target. This is where you'll get to the real "but it'll only add a few dollars to your monthly payment!" pressure. Accepting this stuff is almost always a bad idea. Extended warranties usually aren't worth the money, but if you do want breakdown insurance, they're almost always cheaper from a third-party option like Carchex or Endurance (if you really want a warranty, you can get instant quotes from them on your phone while you shop - make sure you use burner contact info, though!). If you need gap insurance, your car insurance provider is almost always a better place to buy it. I don't think Carmax does paint protector/rustproofing/VIN etching type add-ons, but those are 100% bad ideas that are far cheaper from detailing shops if you want them at all. Basically, once you agree to buy the car, just start saying "no" to everything else they try to offer you.
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Aug 1, 2020 15:57
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Bought 2 cars from Carmax in the last 18 months. Zero pressure on anything at any time of the processes. Declining the warranty and such was just a “are you sure?” Outside of the test drive and signing papers I was left completely alone.
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Aug 1, 2020 17:27
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It's honestly paying slightly more for a much more streamlined and comfortable process. Even the test drives are better.
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Aug 1, 2020 18:41
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Is their warranty still a savior of old cars from a financial standpoint?
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Aug 1, 2020 20:06
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I thought post Doug Range Rover they’ve pretty substantially overhauled their warranty pricing?
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Aug 1, 2020 20:25
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TheBacon posted:I thought post Doug Range Rover they’ve pretty substantially overhauled their warranty pricing? I think that's true, although there's a part of me that still wonders whether it can be gamed. Honestly, I can't imagine they still came out behind on the warranty thing in the end: they probably sold a ton of warranties on Camrys. I don't know if this is the norm, but I bought my last car in cash remotely. I paid the price + $200 doc fee. I got to go in on a zoom call with the finance (?) manager who tried to upsell me on warranties/etc, but I was able to decline everything pretty easily and was done in 15 minutes. Buying a car during COVID was pretty easy. Residency Evil fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Aug 2, 2020 |
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Aug 2, 2020 15:26
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Residency Evil posted:I think that's true, although there's a part of me that still wonders whether it can be gamed. He still paid an above market price to start, together with a fairly expensive extended warranty. and at the end of the day, He drove an old range rover for a couple of years, with probably a significant portion of those years spent waiting for parts or repairs. I guess he might have come out slightly ahead with the warranty in the sense that he recouped the cost of the warranty and the initial carmax price premium, and then some on top, but was that really worth the effort vis a vis just leasing a new Range Rover? His mechanic was the real winner. It's an amusing story but you probably shouldn't be taking it as "car buying advice." unless you shop exlusively for out of warranty Range Rovers and V12 AMG Mercs. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Aug 2, 2020 |
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Aug 2, 2020 15:41
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Above market just means dealer pricing when it comes to Carmax.
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Aug 2, 2020 18:18
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Loan Dusty Road posted:Above market just means dealer pricing when it comes to Carmax. Cross shopping comparable cars, there is a noticeable price disparity between an average dealership price and CarMax/Carvana.
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Aug 2, 2020 18:30
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TheBacon posted:I thought post Doug Range Rover they’ve pretty substantially overhauled their warranty pricing? They definitely updated the rates on certain vehicles. Doug posted:CarMax paid $21,276 in warranty claims on my Range Rover. I purchased the Range Rover for $26,998, and I paid $3,699 for the warranty He still owns the car, kept it all 6 years of the extended warranty. The genius part is it launched his million+ dollar a year YouTube career, and he got to write the drat thing off on his taxes. Nitrox posted:Cross shopping comparable cars, there is a noticeable price disparity between an average dealership price and CarMax/Carvana. True, but there are a lot of people out there willing to pay the premium to avoid the average dealership. I don't know if it's true or not, but I like to think CarMax and Carvana are a little bit more picky about their inventory as well. They seem to target really good condition popular used vehicles.
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Aug 2, 2020 18:40
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Loan Dusty Road posted:Bought 2 cars from Carmax in the last 18 months. Zero pressure on anything at any time of the processes. Declining the warranty and such was just a “are you sure?” Outside of the test drive and signing papers I was left completely alone. I'll agree that it was the lowest pressure dealer experience ever, but thanks to an archaic lending system, a salesperson who was so slow at typing I wanted to take his keyboard and do it myself, and AZ's old title/registration system, in my case it was still a solid 1.5 hours of paperwork / waiting after we agreed to buy the truck. I don't think I even got an "are you sure" on anything, they took our answers at face value. But overall, would do again, and I think there are some bargains to be had there once in a while.
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Aug 2, 2020 18:52
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I want to see anything remotely close to a bargain at CarMax/Carvana place. Compared to private sellers, their cars are easily 30% above market value. And you can haggle with private sellers. Actually, you can haggle with these "price is set" places as well, you just need to know how. If you have a trade-in, that price is negotiable, and people desperate for a sale, will over value your trade-in just so they can pad their numbers. I bought one of my construction vans from Enterprise sales, and because it was December 31st, they paid me 2.5 times as much for my trade-in then it was worth. Only took 4 hours of negotiations, but hey, $6,000 saved.
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Aug 2, 2020 23:33
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Nitrox posted:I want to see anything remotely close to a bargain at CarMax/Carvana place. Compared to private sellers, their cars are easily 30% above market value. And you can haggle with private sellers. I've found exactly one 2016+ Colorado / Canyon diesel with ~20k miles or less, for under $29k. These things are nearly nonexistent on the private market, and sales tax is worth not having to try and buy and finance a vehicle out of state from a private seller.
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Aug 3, 2020 01:39
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IOwnCalculus posted:I've found exactly one 2016+ Colorado / Canyon diesel with ~20k miles or less, for under $29k. These things are nearly nonexistent on the private market, and sales tax is worth not having to try and buy and finance a vehicle out of state from a private seller. You sound like me trying to buy a new truck. I have a feeling I'm ordering one from the factory and waiting months to get it. I'm not going to get a deal, but I'll get what I want.
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Aug 3, 2020 02:13
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IOwnCalculus posted:I've found exactly one 2016+ Colorado / Canyon diesel with ~20k miles or less, for under $29k. These things are nearly nonexistent on the private market, and sales tax is worth not having to try and buy and finance a vehicle out of state from a private seller.
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Aug 3, 2020 02:27
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Nitrox posted:Cross shopping comparable cars, there is a noticeable price disparity between an average dealership price and CarMax/Carvana. Wasn’t my experience at all.
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Aug 3, 2020 02:43
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I don't have any actual knowledge of this, but it wouldn't surprise me if the disparity between haggle-free and haggle...ful dealerships varied wildly. A large selling point of the haggle-free companies is a nationwide selection of cars, with the cost of transit being a line item (at least hypothetically based on distance). That means you'll pay the same price for a Prius regardless of whether you're in North Dakota or the Bay Area. Meanwhile, dealerships can be more responsive to local price pressures.
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Aug 3, 2020 03:07
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In my area at least, carmax prices are indistinguishable from the truecar upfront price that dealers make available. Which is to say that you can get it cheaper if you bargain and bargain well, but if you don't want to bargain or don't do it well it is also not particularly more expensive than other dealers.
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Aug 3, 2020 15:19
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