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Nitrousoxide posted:What pack? Osprey Kestrel in 38L
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Jul 30, 2020 03:13
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incogneato posted:I've been happy with Gaia (paid subscription for offline use). Prior to that we used Avenza with manually downloaded Caltopo maps. Works fine for individual hikes, but requires more planning ahead. Also happy with Gaia, annual subscription is a nominal fee compared to the costs of even a single trip. What’s the consensus on satellite communicators—it seems like the Garmin inReach mini is what I’m looking for. It has some extra features I might be able to take advantage of, but really, I only need it to do 3 things well: 1. Text with my wife so she knows everything is good and if I’m on schedule 2. Send my GPS coords to her for the same reason 3. Send an SOS. Also I don’t want it to weigh a ton. In the past, either I’ve gone solo without it, someone else brought one, or we rented a sat phone.
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Jul 30, 2020 03:31
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The inReach mini works fine for those things, yeah. You can connect it to your phone to get maps too, but if you have a preferred app that does that for you then you can just use it solo. I have noticed that it takes quite some time to pick up satellites, so I’ll turn it on before we even park at the trailhead. By the time we’ve got all our stuff together it’s usually got a signal, but I’ve gone 30+ minutes with a decently unobstructed sky before it’ll grab them. Getting weather updates is pretty nice too if you’re in an area where it’s more unpredictable and you don’t get cell service.
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Jul 30, 2020 04:34
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+1 Gaia (paid). I work in UTM. Back when I started looking for decent overlay apps, there weren't many with that as an option. Now I'm just used to the app and cant see changing. Also the desktop version can spit out some pretty nice maps in just a couple of clicks.
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Jul 30, 2020 04:38
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I have an inReach Mini and it's great. Battery is good, usability is good enough and the weight and size are convenient. It should cover your needs well. You can get a lot of mileage from the preset messages by thinking in advance how you want to communicate and you can include location in the messages too so you get basically unlimited locations. My 3 preset messages, all including location, are usually something like Everything's going as planned/Staying here for the night/Change of plans or delayed but everything's fine. I think it's silly to waste the preset messages on single use texts like "I'm at the trailhead and starting now". If you stay somewhere where there's no coverage, like a wilderness hut, you should remember to turn off the device since constantly looking for satellites drains the battery fast. Even if you're not planning to use it for navigation it's good to program in waypoints, landmarks, shelters etc in the device for emergency use too. These things are probably obvious but there's no harm in repeating them out loud.
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Jul 30, 2020 11:02
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What blows me away about the inReach is that the SOS won't work if you don't have the subscription. Like their satellites will straight up pick up your SOS and they'll just ignore you.
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Jul 30, 2020 12:39
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Nitrousoxide posted:What blows me away about the inReach is that the SOS won't work if you don't have the subscription. Like their satellites will straight up pick up your SOS and they'll just ignore you. That's hosed up. I wonder if there will be a lawsuit when someone someone dies because they didn't pay that month.
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Jul 30, 2020 15:46
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The Garmin stuff is running on a private network of satellites so yeah, they charge for SOS access. They have very big scary warnings when you sign up for their service so I’m sure they’re shielded from liability by a EULA. Here’s an article I found about Garmin’s SOS experience. They route you to a call center and try and help you with your situation if possible, it’s not just a “call in the choppers” kind of thing. I can see why you would need a subscription for this https://www.outdoorproject.com/gear/sos-activating-scary-sos-button-my-garmin-inreach
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Jul 30, 2020 16:06
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It’s not hosed up. It’s how you get features like SMS (including two-way comms if you hit the big red button) and GPS tracking. Those are recurring costs for Garmin and, thus, recurring costs for users. Moreover, if SOS always worked, it would break the business model, meaning that the other features would either cost more of cease to exist. It’s also clear communicated that SOS capabilities require a subscription. If you want SOS-only capabilities, there are a number of solid options with no subscription fee. No one is forcing people to choose inReach devices or go into the backcountry in the first place.
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Jul 30, 2020 16:06
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Yeah, each of my preset messages include location and say something like, “Just checking in. All is well! -or- Staying here tonight. All is well! -or- To a question: Yes.” It’s a little odd, but by establishing how I’ll communicate with my partner/emergency contact beforehand, it works really well. Different topic: how do you all go about selling used gear? I’ve always found it difficult to flip things locally, so I’m curious what others might do. Also, is anyone interested in a very lightly used Talon 22? 
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Jul 30, 2020 17:12
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I love my Inreach Mini, usually I use it sans smartphone as I can just use one of my presents and plot my course on a map with a lat/lon reading off of the device.Senf posted:Different topic: how do you all go about selling used gear? I’ve always found it difficult to flip things locally, so I’m curious what others might do. Also, is anyone interested in a very lightly used Talon 22? The best place I've found to both buy and sell gear is reddits geartrade. I've purchased almost all of my hammock camping gear from there for like 50% off and sold a few items as well. Otherwise in normal times there are some gear garage sales/swaps near me that are pretty great. I see a lot of stuff on Facebook Marketplace too but I dont have an account on there to buy/sell.
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Jul 30, 2020 17:49
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Dangerllama posted:It’s not hosed up. It’s how you get features like SMS (including two-way comms if you hit the big red button) and GPS tracking. Those are recurring costs for Garmin and, thus, recurring costs for users. Moreover, if SOS always worked, it would break the business model, meaning that the other features would either cost more of cease to exist. It’s also clear communicated that SOS capabilities require a subscription. I Don't care about Garmin's bottom line. I care about the scenario where they get an SOS message from someone who doesn't have a subscription, shrug their shoulders and move on.
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Jul 30, 2020 18:59
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It's obviously morally reprehensible but there's no law in the US obligating them to do anything with a distress call. Obviously there's exceptions, all over the world there's countries that requiring a response to a distress signal but I'll assume Garmin is aware of that and don't offer the product for sale in those regions. It'd be interesting to know if it's happened to them yet. I imagine if they get the SOS they'll forward it to a regional authority and send the person a huge bill for the headache.
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Jul 30, 2020 19:10
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This is all interesting because during the time they were ransomwared and I was trying to reactivate my sub all of the options were about the number of texts, waypoints, and weather options you would get. SOS seemed an assumed function given the language of the site. Perhaps you need first pay the $75 or whatever activation fee in order to get SOS functionality (which makes sense)?
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Jul 30, 2020 19:30
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Dangerllama posted:It’s not hosed up. It’s how you get features like SMS (including two-way comms if you hit the big red button) and GPS tracking. Those are recurring costs for Garmin and, thus, recurring costs for users. Moreover, if SOS always worked, it would break the business model, meaning that the other features would either cost more of cease to exist. It’s also clear communicated that SOS capabilities require a subscription. Just like how 911 always working even if you don't have a sim in your phone means that it breaks the business model of cell phone companies?
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Jul 30, 2020 19:54
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Nitrousoxide posted:Just like how 911 always working even if you don't have a sim in your phone means that it breaks the business model of cell phone companies? In this comparison the cell phone companies would also have to pay for and staff the 911 call centers and do so with a product that has significantly lower volume. Things currently solved on the telco side by taxes, fees, and orders of magnitude more volume. Think less 911 and more ADT and On*Star. Anyway, I get it…no ethical backpacking under capitalism.
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Jul 30, 2020 20:17
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Slimy Hog posted:I Don't care about Garmin's bottom line. I care about the scenario where they get an SOS message from someone who doesn't have a subscription, shrug their shoulders and move on. Are you sure that's the case? These are closed satellite networks, I don't know why they would allow some coms but not others when you don't have a subscription, my assumption would be that they just don't allow you to connect to the network at all. These aren't like SOS beacons, any SOS messages go to Garmin's call center first. Garmin then notifies local authorities on you behalf.
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Jul 30, 2020 20:22
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Slimy Hog posted:I Don't care about Garmin's bottom line. I care about the scenario where they get an SOS message from someone who doesn't have a subscription, shrug their shoulders and move on. That person should buy a ResQLink PLB if they don't want a subscription service. And why would you buy a satellite communication device and not subscribe to the service that makes it work? How many people do you think buy an Inreach mini and don't subscribe? It would be like buying a wifi router and modem but not internet service.
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Jul 30, 2020 20:35
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*Person dying in valley alone because Garmin ignores their SOS after their recurring billing doesnt go through due to someone stealing their card number* "Heh, shoulda got a PLB, loser! Check your account! Gotta make a profit you know, no freeriders"
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Jul 30, 2020 20:39
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Nitrousoxide posted:Just like how 911 always working even if you don't have a sim in your phone means that it breaks the business model of cell phone companies? That method is paid for by numerous telco taxes on bills. Not saying that Garmin and Spot and the like couldnt replicate it but we'd all be paying more for their service to do so. Also who doesnt test out their Garmin before leaving? If you want a simple press a button get rescued buy a PLB for way less money. BaseballPCHiker fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 20:47
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Do iridium phones provide emergency service with no subscription?
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Jul 30, 2020 20:48
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Garmin is not a PLB device, it's a GPS and communication device. If you don't have a subscription, Garmin doesn't let you connect to their network at all. An SOS signal on Garmin's network is a text message to a Garmin call center. They message you back to work you through your situation and, if necessary, will contact local authorities for a rescue. You've basically texting a call center worker. What is this imaginary scenario where a device without access to the Garmin network is still able to send a message to Garmin who in turn promptly ignores it? Like, the device simply says you need active subscription to use it and won't allow you to use any functionality except the clock.
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Jul 30, 2020 20:48
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FCKGW posted:Garmin is not a PLB device, it's a GPS and communication device. If you don't have a subscription, Garmin doesn't let you connect to their network at all. An SOS signal on Garmin's network is a text message to a Garmin call center. They message you back to work you through your situation and, if necessary, will contact local authorities for a rescue. You've basically texting a call center worker. As someone with a PLB, this entire discussion is pretty stupid. Just buy a PLB if you want PLB behavior (no subscription fees, international GPS enabled OH poo poo! button). If you want a messaging device, buy a messaging device. As the poster I'm replying to says, they're completely different things that work completely different ways and are intended for different use cases. Five seconds of googling will reveal the differences.
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Jul 30, 2020 20:56
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Any bear canister recommendations? There's one on REI.com that looks like a plastic piece of poo poo
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Jul 30, 2020 20:57
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ROFLburger posted:Any bear canister recommendations? There's one on REI.com that looks like a plastic piece of poo poo Any of these: https://www.nps.gov/dena/planyourvisit/brfc.htm
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Jul 30, 2020 20:59
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Also check the local regulations for wherever you're headed! Some designs are not approved everywhere. So it's less about the quality of the canister and more about the regulations.
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Jul 30, 2020 21:07
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ROFLburger posted:Any bear canister recommendations? There's one on REI.com that looks like a plastic piece of poo poo BearVault stuff has been fine for me and the 500 I still find is about the sweetspot size for longer trips if you want to get spendy you can check out Bearikade's, which are lighter but I don't think they're grizzly approved in areas where that matters.
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Jul 30, 2020 22:07
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:*Person dying in valley alone because Garmin ignores their SOS after their recurring billing doesnt go through due to someone stealing their card number* You can just buy a month of the service for the times when you plan to go. You don't have to keep a recurring charge that runs year long.
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Jul 30, 2020 22:15
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FCKGW posted:Are you sure that's the case? These are closed satellite networks, I don't know why they would allow some coms but not others when you don't have a subscription, my assumption would be that they just don't allow you to connect to the network at all. I am not, I was basing my comment on this: Nitrousoxide posted:What blows me away about the inReach is that the SOS won't work if you don't have the subscription. Like their satellites will straight up pick up your SOS and they'll just ignore you. If this is the case and you're okay with Garmin doing ignoring SOS calls because they didn't get paid for it, you're a horrible person and I hope to never meet you in real life. (This isn't directed at you FCKGW)
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Jul 30, 2020 22:47
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Slimy Hog posted:I am not, I was basing my comment on this: quote:SOS - There will be no active SAR services. GEOS will NOT provide SOS services without an active subscription. https://support-inreach.roadpost.ca/kb/articles/using-the-inreach-explorer-while-suspended-or-deactivated
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Jul 31, 2020 00:01
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Nitrousoxide posted:https://support-inreach.roadpost.ca/kb/articles/using-the-inreach-explorer-while-suspended-or-deactivated That doesn't mean they receive the call and ignore it. The SOS button works on the same tech as a SMS messages. It all goes through the Iridium satellite network. So if you don't have a subscription, you don't get Iridium access. They probably don't even get the call.
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Jul 31, 2020 00:05
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They'll get a transmission indicating an SOS from a device that doesn't have an active subscription and they will ignore the transmission. They'll ignore people in distress. Edit: either that or they will require validation of a current subscription before you leave cell phone coverage and if that isn't in place they will disable the button for SOS. I don't know how that's any better though since in that case they're instructing their device to ignore a user who's attempting to call for help as opposed to instructing their receiving antenna to ignore a call for help. Nitrousoxide fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Jul 31, 2020 |
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Jul 31, 2020 00:08
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Nitrousoxide posted:They'll get a transmission indicating an SOS from a device that doesn't have an active subscription and they will ignore the transmission. They'll ignore people in distress. Without a subscription, all data service is disabled. That includes SOS messages that travel over their data network. The only things that work are local features like maps and waypoints. If you want something that doesn't use the Garmin data network for SOS features then get a PLB.
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Jul 31, 2020 00:26
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You can always email them and ask instead of this back and forth speculation.
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Jul 31, 2020 00:32
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in a place called chadron until sunday, looks like this from the (car) campsite:  looking forward to walking around in the not-quite-sandhills, not-quite-black-hills terrain of the pine ridge
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Jul 31, 2020 00:48
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FAUXTON posted:in a place called chadron until sunday, looks like this from the (car) campsite: This is one of my favorite, underrated places in the US, the sandhills too.
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Jul 31, 2020 00:57
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FCKGW posted:Without a subscription, all data service is disabled. That includes SOS messages that travel over their data network. In the other hand, how do they know you don't have a subscription? They have to contact the central server somehow right? But this is the last ill say on it because I already made my views pretty clear. Oh also because we're all speculating. I woke up early this morning and went for a short hike. It was really great! But I also forgot that rush hour was a thing so there was a bit of traffic coming back to the city.
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Jul 31, 2020 01:26
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charliebravo77 posted:This is one of my favorite, underrated places in the US, the sandhills too. It's far enough from practically everywhere citywise that it's not chock full of shitheels, which is a nice feature even if we had to drive almost 8 hours.
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Jul 31, 2020 01:28
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charliebravo77 posted:This is one of my favorite, underrated places in the US, the sandhills too. I've tried to sell people on the northern border of Nebraska in general and just get laughed at. Whenever we road trip I try to pick a different US route that isn't an interstate, and one year we did US-20. It was gorgeous through there. Fort Robinson SP in particular was a highlight.
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Jul 31, 2020 03:03
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xzzy posted:I've tried to sell people on the northern border of Nebraska in general and just get laughed at. Yeah, I've been turkey hunting in the Chadron/Pine Ridge area once and deer hunting in the sandhills 3?4? times and it never disappoints. I was supposed to go turkey hunting in Pine Ridge again back in April and I was going to turn it into a ~4-5 day drive back to Chicago stopping to fly fish along the Niobrara and all of the little feeder creeks along US-20 but lol COVID  
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Jul 31, 2020 03:46
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