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Please do not remind me how dissapointing that fight scene was and how its repeated again in TRoS.
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Jul 31, 2020 05:26
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Technically speaking spice could be legal but restricted, with smuggling occurring to get around tariffs, import restrictions, or exclusive contracts à la tea before the American Revolution. Star Trek actually has an equivalent of this with Romulan Ale, technically illegal in the Federation but plenty of Starfleet officers have tried it, and there's even implications they turn a blind eye to smugglers. More or less equivalent to Cuban cigars.
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Jul 31, 2020 06:05
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The only mystery is whether because Spice is mined they're actually talking about a drug/food condiment, or whether in Star Wars world this is some incredibly rare alloy.
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Jul 31, 2020 10:11
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Since it's canonical that Jango Fett and all his clones have New Zealand accents, maybe Luke thought his father was a navigator on a space freighter and just misheard.
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Jul 31, 2020 12:29
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I think we've had this exact conversation about what "Spice" is before. But I'll mention again I loved Legends how kept with it being a Dune reference by spice being a drug that got you so hosed up you thought It expands life, expands consciousness. Of course later authors just made it space cocaine complete with cutting it with razorblades to snort it which was much lamer.
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Jul 31, 2020 12:46
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Rogue Squadron on the N64 had a mission on Kessel, and I think it was the mission description for that which said spice is a drug which gives people psychic powers
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Jul 31, 2020 12:50
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:To be clear: the "Anakin and Obiman swing their swords in a loop for several mintues without hitting eachother" complaint is literally confusing a popular animated gif with what happens in the actual movie. Well now you're not arguing in good faith. No one said "several minutes" so just stop it. I remember it happening in the movie. I even said in this thread that it's a quick moment, but a silly one. I remember people laughing in the theater, on opening night, when it happened, in a kind of, "Wait, what the hell was that?" way. It's okay for it to be a silly moment, not every fight can be perfect. But it is a silly moment . I'm going to regret getting into an argument in the Star Wars thread. I told myself I wouldn't do this again. 2house2fly posted:Rogue Squadron on the N64 had a mission on Kessel, and I think it was the mission description for that which said spice is a drug which gives people psychic powers "ROGUE SQUADRON, WHERE ARE YOU?!" Payndz posted:Since it's canonical that Jango Fett and all his clones have New Zealand accents, maybe Luke thought his father was a navigator on a space freighter and just misheard. This brings up an interesting question. Is Star Wars saying accents are in your DNA? Or instead, did they keep Jango Fett around to teach the Clones how to speak, and that's why they have his accent, even though they themselves also speak Basic? If so, does that mean Jango Fett, Bounty Hunter, was teaching a bunch of kids the Star Wars equivalent of English 101? Like...this is not how accents work, I think.
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Jul 31, 2020 14:25
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:To be clear: the "Anakin and Obiman swing their swords in a loop for several mintues without hitting eachother" complaint is literally confusing a popular animated gif with what happens in the actual movie. yeah i just watched that youtube clip of the fight and it's incredibly clumsy looking, like the red guys all randomly run off to the sides for no reason very awkwardly
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Jul 31, 2020 14:34
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I asked so nicely but now I remember the absolutely anemic trouncing of the knights of ren and star wars tastes like ashes in my mouth all over again
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Jul 31, 2020 14:36
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punishedkissinger posted:yeah i just watched that youtube clip of the fight and it's incredibly clumsy looking, like the red guys all randomly run off to the sides for no reason very awkwardly It’s not substantively different that the choreography in say, Power Rangers.
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Jul 31, 2020 14:39
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Barudak posted:Please do not remind me how dissapointing that fight scene was and how its repeated again in TRoS. I still like the TLJ fight despite, and maybe partly because of, how clumsy and dumb it is. TRoS fight, between the lighting and editing, was loving incomprehensible.
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Jul 31, 2020 15:04
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Even this choreography works way better. You still have a bunch of guys hanging back from the fight, but in this case it makes sense since Luke is facing them and is an actual threat to them. That TLJ fight has groups of guys just spinning out of frame for no reason other than to maintain the dance choreo they are doing 
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Jul 31, 2020 15:07
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I don't have a problem with the guards running out of frame because they immediately regroup and charge back in together.
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Jul 31, 2020 17:18
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punishedkissinger posted:Even this choreography works way better. You still have a bunch of guys hanging back from the fight, but in this case it makes sense since Luke is facing them and is an actual threat to them. That TLJ fight has groups of guys just spinning out of frame for no reason other than to maintain the dance choreo they are doing It’s also made less ridiculous by the fact that they are (presumably) just a bunch of hired goons working for a mob boss on a backwater shithole.
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Jul 31, 2020 17:37
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Barudak posted:I asked so nicely but now I remember the absolutely anemic trouncing of the knights of ren and star wars tastes like ashes in my mouth all over again It’s fun to look at what they’re going with here, because the on-paper concept is that Kylo Ben is using ‘Force Strength’ or something to launch two guys across the room. One of them smashes into the third guy, and Ben uses that distraction as an opportunity to impale him through the belly. From that description, you can picture how a good action director might convey “literally throwing a guy at another guy”. You’re probably picturing the collision happening in the frame. In that TLJ clip, the part where they bump into eachother is literally offscreen, so it takes several rewatches to decipher why the guy in the middle threw his spear away. So it’s not a ‘realism’ issue; it’s a ‘storytelling’ issue.
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Jul 31, 2020 17:48
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https://twitter.com/rodrigosalem/status/1289206871820132352
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Jul 31, 2020 18:14
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“c’mon guys” lol
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Jul 31, 2020 18:18
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The clones also attack in episode 2, but he makes a good point
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Jul 31, 2020 19:28
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Shouldn't TRoS -> AotC?
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Jul 31, 2020 19:58
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Why isn't Kylo Ren at all like Han Solo? Wouldn't it make sense if his character was jokey or wannabe-suave? His whole arc is the struggle of an apparently good person versus a war machine and people trying to use him, but he doesn't appear to have an individual identity with which to struggle. He seems a lot like Anakin, but almost more than Luke did. Is Poe also Han's son? I'm interested in what the storyboards for the fight sequence look like, if it played better in stills or was just poorly drawn from the start. I think the guy getting chopped up by the electricity hole that's in the floor is funny. The music in that scene is very bad.
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Jul 31, 2020 19:59
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FunkyAl posted:I'm interested in what the storyboards for the fight sequence look like, if it played better in stills or was just poorly drawn from the start. I think the guy getting chopped up by the electricity hole that's in the floor is funny. The music in that scene is very bad. Modern action movies usually have stunt-vis rather than storyboards, where the stunt team gets together and just shoots a low-budget version of the fight to reflect what the final version might resemble. Since it's actually filmed and performed by stunt people (and has to sell the fight to the director), it can sometimes be more kinetic than the final sequence. Here's one for Winter Soldier, and you can see how a version of the TLJ fight done like this could be approved by Rian Johnson in concept, with the assumption that any gaps in believability would be filled in once the scene is shot with the right costumes, sets, and VFX. Also, since these sequences are designed to play to specific camera angles, changing any of the shots in the sequence would reveal the gaps in choreography.
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Jul 31, 2020 20:19
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
With the spinning at the start I think the intention there is that Kylo has just pushed their swords away so the spin they're doing is like a recovery. It doesn't really make tactical sense I suppose but it looks neat.
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Jul 31, 2020 20:56
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Those weren't snoke's guards they were his personal dance troupe and they did the best they could
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Jul 31, 2020 21:01
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Robot Style posted:Modern action movies usually have stunt-vis rather than storyboards, where the stunt team gets together and just shoots a low-budget version of the fight to reflect what the final version might resemble. Since it's actually filmed and performed by stunt people (and has to sell the fight to the director), it can sometimes be more kinetic than the final sequence. Fascinating, and perhaps ultimately a weird use of resources. ALSO I am doing a 180 on my opinion about the last jedi lightsaber battle, I think it is supposed to be like kabuki, and that the set specifically reflects this in that (according to my one minute of research) "The kabuki stage features a projection called a hanamichi (花道, "flower path"), a walkway which extends into the audience and via which dramatic entrances and exits are made. Okuni also performed on a hanamichi stage with her entourage. The stage is used not only as a walkway or path to get to and from the main stage, but important scenes are also played on the stage," and this is reflected in the last jedi's set with the little walkway to the elevator. Theres obviously other theatrical elements people have pointed out, the curtains burning and the Wizard of Oz stuff, and this reads to me as a possible undressing of the theatrical tendency to glorify violence in its depiction, being all like cool and about being stabbed in the head and etc. The figures are almost like blood ghosts, one of them, again, falls through a hole in the floor into a chopping mechanism, at the end one of them falls OFF the stage, there is an ocular device with no apparent purpose, like a lens. The scene is certainly "staged" so it's at least worth that.
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Jul 31, 2020 22:46
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I like that read. One point, though: the ocular device does serve a purpose. Snoke uses it to direct Rey's attention to the destruction of her fleet. And it works in concert with the curtains. They draw back a little and the device then magnifies the bit of space they reveal. That only reinforces the "staged" nature of the scene.
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Jul 31, 2020 23:07
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Robot Style posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oso4iQFuAzM
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Jul 31, 2020 23:15
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galagazombie posted:I think we've had this exact conversation about what "Spice" is before. But I'll mention again I loved Legends how kept with it being a Dune reference by spice being a drug that got you so hosed up you thought It expands life, expands consciousness. Of course later authors just made it space cocaine complete with cutting it with razorblades to snort it which was much lamer. I'm still mindfucked at the casual existence of paper in the ST. That was a major universe quirk the EU had fun writing itself around.
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Aug 1, 2020 00:45
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Dishwasher posted:I'm still mindfucked at the casual existence of paper in the ST. That was a major universe quirk the EU had fun writing itself around. Not glass, Transparasteel Not plastic, Plasteel Not [insert metal], Durasteel Not concrete, Duracrete Not bathrooms, Refreshers Not coffee, Caff Not hell despite Han Solo literally saying it, The Pit/The Netherworld/insert generic hack fantasy term for when writers just use Christian metaphysics with the number filed off Or all the awkward fake profanities they would use like "Sithspit" and "Emperors Black Bones" because they gotta keep this PG. Though Disney seems to be getting in on this with "Karabast". Edit: Holy Sithspit I just remembered, we've had paper all along! The EU is a lie wake up sheeple! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX0CDwZJe-s galagazombie fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Aug 1, 2020 |
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Aug 1, 2020 01:38
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FunkyAl posted:Fascinating, and perhaps ultimately a weird use of resources. I would argue its why its the episode that made the most sense to do as a Kabuki stage show like they chose, but word was the Kabuki version wasn't much better
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Aug 1, 2020 01:56
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
They're not randomly spinning, and the one guard that gets stabbed doesn't toss away their weapon. Two of the guards have their weapons locked with Kylo's saber, and Kylo breaks them off, sending them stumbling outward in opposite directions. One of those guards that got pushed off inadvertently clips the staff of the third guard coming in, knocking the staff out of their hands, leaving that third guard defenseless and open for Kylo to kill.
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Aug 1, 2020 02:10
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Regarding the TLJ throne room scene, I actually found some giant sword nerd on YouTube who went over every frame commenting on the fight choreography and how plausible it is of the Throne Room fight, the Obi-Wan and Anakin duel from RotS, and the Luke/Vader duel from ESB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvW4touytkc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVFZHSkLZdM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyzwBWsqqw8 It's actually surprisingly interesting to hear it all broken down. Haven't watched the ESB video yet, but the consensus on the first two seem to be that with a handful of exceptions (Including, of course, the infamous spinning lightsabers), Anakin and Obi Wan's duel is actually really well done, while the TLJ fight is... not so good. (To say nothing of the visuals and music, where RotS has the TLJ scene beaten hands-down.) 
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Aug 1, 2020 02:20
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Plausibility of each duel is neat to explore, but the "realism" of said fights doesn't affect much in the way of story or them being character driven moments for me. I like both the TLJ and ROTS fight for different reasons, but the TLJ fight hits much harder because it's such a great character building "high" for me. The TLJ fight also feels the most "raw" and brutal compared to every other duel in the film series imo.
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Aug 1, 2020 02:31
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galagazombie posted:Not glass, Transparasteel You didn't even name the one in question https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Flimsiplast
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Aug 1, 2020 04:33
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The TLJ fight is great. For me to poop on. Because it's sh
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Aug 1, 2020 04:46
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teagone posted:Plausibility of each duel is neat to explore, but the "realism" of said fights doesn't affect much in the way of story or them being character driven moments for me. I like both the TLJ and ROTS fight for different reasons, but the TLJ fight hits much harder because it's such a great character building "high" for me. The TLJ fight also feels the most "raw" and brutal compared to every other duel in the film series imo. Agreed somewhat on “realism” being a stupid way to evaluate space wizards battling in bottomless exhaust shafts etc, but the TLJ fight feels totally inert to me because they’re basically teeing up on putties from Power Rangers. In terms of raw emotion nothing can match Luke hacking away at his own dad in blind revenge until he cuts his hand off. You just can’t beat it. And then Luke pivots from bloodlust to shock and terror... perfect in every way.
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Aug 1, 2020 04:57
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teagone posted:The TLJ fight also feels the most "raw" and brutal compared to every other duel in the film series imo. i don't even understand that like the fight is them just dunking on mooks
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Aug 1, 2020 07:33
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Fight choreography seems almost a lost art, especially in franchise blockbusters. The best fight in the sequel trilogy is still Finn versus the 'Traitor!' guy.
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Aug 1, 2020 08:02
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Best fight in the ST was Luke vs. Kylo not even close.
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Aug 1, 2020 08:08
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Elfgames posted:i don't even understand that like the fight is them just dunking on mooks I think that’s what people mean: it’s mainly just a series of “creative kills” edited sequence, without much of a narrative actually occurring. It’s like a compilation video. The one guy gets zapped through the eye, one gets tossed into an industrial fan, one gets impaled, etc. The only actual progression in the scene is with the state of the curtain.
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Aug 1, 2020 08:12
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Elfgames posted:i don't even understand that like the fight is them just dunking on mooks The manner in which the mooks are dunked on and how said dunking is presented is what I'm referring to. The TLJ throne room brawl has really great sound design, and a lot of the hits feel and look very weighty. It's arguably also one of the more, if not THE most, violent displays of lightsaber combat in the entire saga.
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Aug 1, 2020 08:25
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