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MomJeans420
Mar 19, 2007




At first I had questions like "well is the wear on the tire standard curb rash" and "what kind of dent on the bumper are we talking about," then I remembered it's a Tesla and of course those have nothing to do with the actual issue. At this point I don't think I can feel any sympathy when someone buys a Tesla and this happens. For most people purchasing a new car is a big deal financially, and you'd hope they'd do at least the bare minimum of due diligence. Once you start talking about $80k spent on one of the ugliest SUVs in the world, I kind of hope the car just burns down and they didn't have comprehensive.

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gschmidl
Sep 3, 2011

watch with knife hands


Deserves it just for "Elon Musk sir".

gschmidl fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Jul 31, 2020

Powerful Two-Hander
Mar 10, 2004

Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.


MomJeans420 posted:

At first I had questions like "well is the wear on the tire standard curb rash" and "what kind of dent on the bumper are we talking about," then I remembered it's a Tesla and of course those have nothing to do with the actual issue. At this point I don't think I can feel any sympathy when someone buys a Tesla and this happens. For most people purchasing a new car is a big deal financially, and you'd hope they'd do at least the bare minimum of due diligence. Once you start talking about $80k spent on one of the ugliest SUVs in the world, I kind of hope the car just burns down and they didn't have comprehensive.

i clipped the front left hand tire of a hire care on a raised curb at like 20mph and instantly blew the tire and the wheel stayed attached/nothing else was damaged, that tesla looks like it just turned right at low speed and the shear force snapped the suspension beam in half

gschmidl
Sep 3, 2011

watch with knife hands

:gary: We're building a car and making the bazingas pay for it!

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant
Musk thinks Americans are too entitled and loved the hard working intellectuals in China

Flared Basic Bitch
Feb 22, 2005

Invading your personal space since 1968.

Musk impressed that plants in China are full of smart, hard working Uighurs.

Cactrot
Jan 11, 2001

Go Go Cactus Galactus





Those awful complacent workers had the gall to complain about the pay cuts I needed to do so I could secure my bonus, such entitlement.

EIDE Van Hagar
Dec 8, 2000

Beep Boop
i am indeed full of complacency and entitlement and it’s pretty great!

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant
He's gonna cry when Shenzai Motordynamics releases the Model D and Pooh Bear labels him an enemy of the state and nationalizes the factories.

goddamnedtwisto
Dec 31, 2004

If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you
Fun Shoe
https://insideevs.com/news/436912/driver-suspended-adjusting-wiper-speed-model-3/

quote:

German Court Suspends Driver For Adjusting Wiper Speed In Tesla Model 3

JUL 31, 2020 at 1:57PM

A recent verdict from Germany will start a fascinating discussion. The Higher Regional Court in Karlsruhe confirmed that a driver would have to be suspended from driving for a month. He was sentenced to that because he drove his Tesla Model 3 into an embankment and hit some trees after trying to adjust the windshield wiper speed on the touchscreen.

This driver, which did not have his identity revealed, suffered this accident on the evening of March 15, 2019. The first lawsuit he was subject to happened on August 22, 2019, and he was condemned to pay a €200 fine and got suspended from driving for one month. The 1 Rb 36 Ss 832/19 lawsuit if the final one, and it does not admit any appeal.

According to judges involved with this lawsuit, "the touchscreen permanently installed in the Tesla vehicle is an electronic device." Therefore, its operation "is permitted to the motor vehicle driver only under the conditions" of German's regulation, "without it being of any importance what purpose the motor vehicle driver pursues with its operation."

Before you come up with the old saying that you never know what you'll find in verdicts and baby diapers, the judges gave many reasons to consider the infotainment screen at the Model 3 as an "electronic device." Although the driver said that the speedometer there makes it a "safety control panel," the court ruled it could not be considered as such when a quick gaze is not enough for him to check a submenu with five options. The driver would also be to blame because he had not "observed the care required in road traffic."

Whether you agree with the German judge's reasoning or not, it is crucial to consider the decision opens an in-depth discussion as to whether fundamental functions in a car, such as windshield wipers, should have anything to do with a touchscreen or not.

Tesla decided to create a car that concentrates many of its operations on the touchscreen of its infotainment computer. In some of these vehicles, that is called MCU. We have covered the issues the MCUv1 presents. In Model 3 and Model Y units, any problem with the touchscreen would prevent the driver from properly using the windshield wiper, for example.

On Tesla's defense, that could probably be overcome if the Model 3 had the automatic mode for the wipers on or if the driver used the voice command to adjust the speed – you can even active farts sound with it. Why he decided to change it on the touchscreen manually is something only this German driver could answer. If you happen to know him, please put him in touch with us. We would love to hear his version of the story.

love that it's being framed as "those big meanies claiming the touch screen is an electronic device" like it's some technicality and ignoring the fact that doing something that on every car built since the war is a matter of moving one finger now involves you taking your entire attention of the road to the point where you crash. this ignores the whole "we'll just use the cameras to work out how fast to run the wipers" bullshit and every other terrible ergonomic decision tesla hve made

Not a Children
Oct 9, 2012

Don't need a holster if you never stop shooting.

I still cannot wrap my head around the fact that they removed tactile operation for 99% of functions

I assume the true reason is because with hardware it's a fuckload harder to obsfucate fail conditions that occur due to design negligence than in software, and you don't have to worry about pesky things like "build quality" or "safety factors"

psiox
Oct 15, 2001

Babylon 5 Street Team

Not a Children posted:

I assume the true reason is because with hardware it's a fuckload harder to obsfucate fail conditions that occur due to design negligence than in software, and you don't have to worry about pesky things like "build quality" or "safety factors"

it's called "agility" jeez

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



goddamnedtwisto posted:

https://insideevs.com/news/436912/driver-suspended-adjusting-wiper-speed-model-3/


love that it's being framed as "those big meanies claiming the touch screen is an electronic device" like it's some technicality and ignoring the fact that doing something that on every car built since the war is a matter of moving one finger now involves you taking your entire attention of the road to the point where you crash. this ignores the whole "we'll just use the cameras to work out how fast to run the wipers" bullshit and every other terrible ergonomic decision tesla hve made

lmao this kicks rear end

refleks
Nov 21, 2006



ban the car

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003



quote:

driver used the voice command... you can even active farts sound with it

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull

Not a Children posted:

I still cannot wrap my head around the fact that they removed tactile operation for 99% of functions

I assume the true reason is because with hardware it's a fuckload harder to obsfucate fail conditions that occur due to design negligence than in software, and you don't have to worry about pesky things like "build quality" or "safety factors"

you're thinking too hard and confusing cause and effect

elon musk has a 420 lolhamsterdance cringememe understanding of everything. so when he insists on putting as many functions as possible on the ipad, it's only because he thinks it's cool and good to have no physical controls, not because he is trying to 4d chess cover up for something else

the design negligence happens because tesla can't hold on to good talent in spite of being viewed as a dream job by so many valley stemlords. when musk dictates that engineers do stupid things, the good ones push back. they either get fired or pushed into resigning. once musk achieves a sufficient density of yes-men on his teams, his bad ideas go forward, but the people available to implement them are on average bad, so it's bad ideas implemented poorly

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003



fewer moving parts means less to break, and given tesla's build quality, this seems like a good thing for them, considering they already have the industry's highest rate of warranty issues

just don't ask what happens when the touchscreen inevitably breaks (they blame it on you and say it's out of warranty and have fun spending thousands of dollars replacing it after you wait months for the parts to come)

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
they dont care about fewer UI elements breaking. they care about pushing monkeycheese gimmicks to the dash. thats it. its incredibly hard to charge people $299 and update a physical a/c switch to play fart noises when you put it on recirculate

big scary monsters
Sep 2, 2011

-~Skullwave~-
german courts seem to love smacking down american tech companies seeking to "disrupt" the market - see also banning uber, berlin making airbnb illegal, forcing twitter and facebook to hide hate speech from german users, preventing some of google's mapping projects in germany. and honestly they've been right every time

Not a Children
Oct 9, 2012

Don't need a holster if you never stop shooting.

BobHoward posted:

you're thinking too hard and confusing cause and effect

elon musk has a 420 lolhamsterdance cringememe understanding of everything. so when he insists on putting as many functions as possible on the ipad, it's only because he thinks it's cool and good to have no physical controls, not because he is trying to 4d chess cover up for something else

the design negligence happens because tesla can't hold on to good talent in spite of being viewed as a dream job by so many valley stemlords. when musk dictates that engineers do stupid things, the good ones push back. they either get fired or pushed into resigning. once musk achieves a sufficient density of yes-men on his teams, his bad ideas go forward, but the people available to implement them are on average bad, so it's bad ideas implemented poorly

This makes a lot of sense. When I designing a UI for equipment I'm designing, the question I ask is "what will allow this to operate safely, intuitively, and with as little chance of breaking as possible over its intended useful life". Looks like the question Telsa is asking is "how can I make this feel like driving in DA FYOOCHORE"

NFX
Jun 2, 2008

Fun Shoe

Endless Mike posted:

driver used the voice command... you can even active farts sound with it

a serious news outlet

gschmidl
Sep 3, 2011

watch with knife hands

NFX posted:

a serious news outlet

I mean, look at the NYT's embarrasing Musk fellatio by Dowd. I'm still not over how fawning and uncritical that poo poo was.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

ERM... Actually I have stellar scores on the surveys, and every year students tell me that my classes are the best ones they’ve ever taken.

Not a Children posted:

I still cannot wrap my head around the fact that they removed tactile operation for 99% of functions

I assume the true reason is because with hardware it's a fuckload harder to obsfucate fail conditions that occur due to design negligence than in software, and you don't have to worry about pesky things like "build quality" or "safety factors"

it's because a 10-position rotary switch and the associated wiring and plastic bits costs you $5.35 per car, but 200 lines of javascript in the UI are free (you just take a guy off the airbag programming team or whatever).

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003

Endless Mike posted:

fewer moving parts means less to break, and given tesla's build quality, this seems like a good thing for them, considering they already have the industry's highest rate of warranty issues
it's this. it's far fewer tools to make and maintain, and far fewer byzantine failure modes to investigate as tools age. On an assembly line it's fewer pieces to put together. Reliable, 200-pound-gorilla rate switchgear isn't easy/cheap.

evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Aug 2, 2020

Not a Children
Oct 9, 2012

Don't need a holster if you never stop shooting.

evil_bunnY posted:

fewer byzantine failure modes to investigate as tools age

This does not click with my knowledge of just-in-time software development

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005

DEATH TO AMERICA
:xickos:

goddamnedtwisto posted:

https://insideevs.com/news/436912/driver-suspended-adjusting-wiper-speed-model-3/


love that it's being framed as "those big meanies claiming the touch screen is an electronic device" like it's some technicality and ignoring the fact that doing something that on every car built since the war is a matter of moving one finger now involves you taking your entire attention of the road to the point where you crash. this ignores the whole "we'll just use the cameras to work out how fast to run the wipers" bullshit and every other terrible ergonomic decision tesla hve made

lol good

goddamnedtwisto
Dec 31, 2004

If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you
Fun Shoe

evil_bunnY posted:

it's this. it's far fewer tools to make and maintain, and far fewer byzantine failure modes to investigate as tools age. On an assembly line it's fewer pieces to put together. Reliable, 200-pound-gorilla rate switchgear isn't easy/cheap.

remember his cars don't even have a speedo, let alone other instruments, in front of the driver, something you could trivially implement with another screen, because musk hates "clutter" and so everything has to be on one big screen. i bet if you could actually look into his brain (shudder) he probably thinks that soon his cars won't even need the wheel and pedals, so why bother with any other controls?

(actually i'm legit surprised that he hasn't tried to revive the various joystick control schemes that people tried through the years, i assume he definitely would have if there weren't laws requiring mechanical steering to be possible in the event of power failure)

TerminalRaptor
Nov 6, 2012

Mostly Harmless
What's this about Elon now saying aliens built the pyramids?

gschmidl
Sep 3, 2011

watch with knife hands

Anything to get attention. Next he'll be claiming "STEM" is short for upcoming show "Star Trek: Elon Musk," starring Elon Musk, the inventor of Star Trek.

TerminalRaptor
Nov 6, 2012

Mostly Harmless
I mean, I guess I get it. The pyramids were built to exacting tolerances and Tesla can't even line up two door panels. Therefore aliens must have built it.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

TerminalRaptor posted:

What's this about Elon now saying aliens built the pyramids?

it's racism, op

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Lutha Mahtin posted:

it's racism, op

this is the source of 99% of the ancient alien bullshit

“how could brown people have done this? must be A Superior Race”

gschmidl
Sep 3, 2011

watch with knife hands

Lutha Mahtin posted:

it's racism, op

jfc I didn't even think of that but of loving course.

psiox
Oct 15, 2001

Babylon 5 Street Team

Lutha Mahtin posted:

it's racism, op

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

one of my favorite things about classical architecture is the greeks and romans used to just try building poo poo different ways without any kind of plan [actually this went on well into the middle ages in europe] and a lot of it just straight up fell down so we're left with winner's bias for classical building design and dumb racists think they were master builders because all they can see is the stuff that lasted [they also think the greeks and romans were white, which, lol]

TerminalRaptor
Nov 6, 2012

Mostly Harmless
"But you don't understand, those granite slabs are perfectly smooth. They simply didn't have the tools to do that. It's impossible given their technology" from an actual argument with my father.

Not just the Egyptians though, he told me he also thought aliens helped build Noah's ark. I couldn't bring myself to go anywhere near that one. :stonk:

He raised me smarter than that, and while he's always been one for conspiracy theories it's gone insane in his later years. I'm honestly afraid it's a sign of oncoming dementia.

I also wonder if I didn't have higher education if I'd be just as much going down the rabbit hole.

Roosevelt
Jul 18, 2009

Tony Pizzuto Says Hello

TerminalRaptor posted:

"But you don't understand, those granite slabs are perfectly smooth. They simply didn't have the tools to do that. It's impossible given their technology" from an actual argument with my father.

Not just the Egyptians though, he told me he also thought aliens helped build Noah's ark. I couldn't bring myself to go anywhere near that one. :stonk:

He raised me smarter than that, and while he's always been one for conspiracy theories it's gone insane in his later years. I'm honestly afraid it's a sign of oncoming dementia.

I also wonder if I didn't have higher education if I'd be just as much going down the rabbit hole.

you don't need a college degree to not be a dumbass idiot poo poo fucker

TerminalRaptor
Nov 6, 2012

Mostly Harmless
It's like there is a critical flaw in being able to vet sources. Man with PhD is equally valid in theories as man who talks on TV. I mean they wouldn't let the man on TV if he was full of poo poo.

Replace TV with Twitter and you have our current state of society.

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
three plates method is a really fun trick for making flat surfaces out of nothing

https://ericweinhoffer.com/blog/2017/7/30/the-whitworth-three-plates-method

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qirex
Feb 15, 2001

the idea that they just had thousands of dudes whose whole lives were spent making perfectly square blocks of stone and they got beaten or starved if they messed up and a giant block with a missing corner got carved down probably doesn't naturally occur to modern people because it's kind of a ridiculous image

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