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WhiskeyJuvenile vindicated at last by Marxism-Leninism
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Aug 3, 2020 18:45
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imo the feds were caught flat footed when DSA's membership exploded and haven't fully taken it over yet
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Aug 3, 2020 18:46
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is angela davis really considered to be a fed psyop I saw her speak in ghana and it was neat
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Aug 3, 2020 19:03
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THS posted:lol eliot higgins accusing other people of having no real ideology his ideology "i loving love blood money" is very real op
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Aug 3, 2020 19:07
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Peanut President posted:chariman beb
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Aug 3, 2020 19:32
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i say swears online posted:is angela davis really considered to be a fed psyop Not some kind of inserted and commanded figure, just another person who limits their stances to an acceptable level of radicalism and is given some media publicity as a reward. Same as all of the popular academic left. Possibly has directly collaborated with cops in her youth, but that's all speculation based on movement history. For all we know, the historical psyop could have been treating her differently without any collaboration and the whole ordeal just spooked her to keep a lower profile from then on.
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Aug 3, 2020 20:44
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i also get the impression that a lot of older lefties are genuinely more alarmed by trumpism than the younger set
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Aug 3, 2020 20:50
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and it's weird because i feel it's all decorum poo poo, itt we know bush was worse now that i'm not a dipshit teenager i respect cindy sheehan a lot
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Aug 3, 2020 20:56
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V. Illych L. posted:i also get the impression that a lot of older lefties are genuinely more alarmed by trumpism than the younger set I think this probably has a lot to do with different generational perspectives wrt reality. The internet poisoned our brains but now the olds are living in our internet infested world. They either refuse to deal with it and become decorum libs or fully embrace it and become Q posters
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Aug 3, 2020 21:04
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i think the internet has broken everyone, but we were kids when it happened so the effects were less harmful. like a, uh, virus of some sort
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Aug 3, 2020 21:08
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i suspect that a lot of it has to do with the sheer chaos and vulgarity of the trump regime distinguishing it from previous republican presidents in a way which i'm guessing a lot of older lefties see as a bellwether for outright fascism. the direct threat to their lives from his covid nonsense might also be a factor
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Aug 3, 2020 21:14
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Dreddout posted:I think this probably has a lot to do with different generational perspectives wrt reality. Yeah I see this a lot. Trump has old people shook for whatever reason. V. Illych L. posted:i suspect that a lot of it has to do with the sheer chaos and vulgarity of the trump regime distinguishing it from previous republican presidents in a way which i'm guessing a lot of older lefties see as a bellwether for outright fascism. the direct threat to their lives from his covid nonsense might also be a factor All true, but it's jarring to see fairly prescient people not see the continuity between presidencies, nor the incremental gains conservatives have made in the US over the past 20 years.
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Aug 3, 2020 21:28
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its lead poisoning, thats the only materialist explanation for old brain
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Aug 3, 2020 21:38
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THS posted:its lead poisoning, thats the only materialist explanation for old brain lede poisoning
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Aug 3, 2020 21:42
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Dreylad posted:Yeah I see this a lot. Trump has old people shook for whatever reason. I think a lot of it has to do with visibility. like the Me Too movement is very visible and zeitgeistey, but states and municipalities passing laws that make it harder for women to access abortion and prenatal healthcare isn’t
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Aug 3, 2020 21:48
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Trump definitely makes it impossible to ignore the fact that USA has been a dumpster fire for a long while now
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Aug 3, 2020 21:52
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THS posted:its lead poisoning, thats the only materialist explanation for old brain one materialist reasoning i can see is that these older leftist tend to also be wealthier, own property, more settled etc and so are ultimately more invested in the status quo, which trump threatens, while millenials mostly have jackshit to lose.
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Aug 3, 2020 22:05
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dex_sda posted:Trump definitely makes it impossible to ignore the fact that USA has been a dumpster fire for a long while now I disagree completely I think the trump presidency allows liberals to hold onto nostalgia for pre-2017 America. Which is why you get figures like W being idolized as a "good republican"
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Aug 3, 2020 22:07
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Dreddout posted:I disagree completely I think the trump presidency allows liberals to hold onto nostalgia for pre-2017 America. Which is why you get figures like W being idolized as a "good republican" Oh sure that's the effect it has, I'm just saying that's a defensive mechanism. Trump brings their failures and the failures of the american empire into sharp relief, and their only way to cope with the contradiction when compared to the overwhelming "USA #1" propaganda is to start pretending he is somehow different - that pre-2017 there were 'good republicans'
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Aug 3, 2020 22:12
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:one materialist reasoning i can see is that these older leftist tend to also be wealthier, own property, more settled etc and so are ultimately more invested in the status quo, which trump threatens, while millenials mostly have jackshit to lose. Also this, becoming wealthy changes a person's political views to be more conservative more than anything else. Usually in ways even they don't notice. The reverse is true of downward. The big reason leftism is vastly more popular among the under-40 cohort is due to the inability to by into the system. Largely due to the more established generations hoarding all the capital and property. Bernie really was the Dems last chance to save liberalism from itself. He was the last politician with widespread youth support and they tossed him aside. I know the American political class doesn't think in material terms, but I seriously wonder what they think there plan is going to be when all the boomers die and all the young people hate them.
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Aug 3, 2020 22:15
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Yeah I guess my brain is broken because 2016 didn't seem like some kind of rupture from the rest of American history. I feel a big disconnect with people who treat it as some kind of radical shift.
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Aug 3, 2020 22:16
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Dreylad posted:Yeah I guess my brain is broken because 2016 didn't seem like some kind of rupture from the rest of American history. I feel a big disconnect with people who treat it as some kind of radical shift. You've just resolved the dialectic by recognising the failures of the USA, I think. A lot of americans struggle with the disconnect they have between thinking USA is great and The Good Guys and then seeing Trump show it is decidedly not. It's why 2016 was so radicalising for a lot of people in America. It's not that it was a radical shift. It just was the moment the contradictions have mounted beyond the point of stability. Some correctly recognised that this is a symptom of a larger disease, and moved leftward. Others cling to the mistaken belief that actually it was a big shift, and that handling manifests in whitewashing people like Bush.
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Aug 3, 2020 22:22
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https://twitter.com/irockgnomes/status/1290387466654949376
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Aug 3, 2020 22:25
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Brace Belden radioing in air strikes to the US gov: "I will not be revealing my current location to you, only the location of the SAA units I'd like you to bomb. You guys have been spying on us communists for too long!"
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Aug 3, 2020 23:21
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Dreylad posted:Yeah I see this a lot. Trump has old people shook for whatever reason. I think even among many ostensible radicals there is still a belief in the US system that's hard to shake. Along with the material conditions mentioned earlier that factors in bigly.
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Aug 4, 2020 02:14
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V. Illych L. posted:i also get the impression that a lot of older lefties are genuinely more alarmed by trumpism than the younger set you'd think that communists would embrace the futility of this election with open arms, as it exposes the problems of bourgeois electoral politics at an almost fundamental level
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Aug 4, 2020 02:19
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dex_sda posted:You've just resolved the dialectic by recognising the failures of the USA, I think. A lot of americans struggle with the disconnect they have between thinking USA is great and The Good Guys and then seeing Trump show it is decidedly not. I'm not American, so that probably helps some. I have a harder time coming to terms with Canadian politics for the same reason a lot of Americans would with their own country, I'm sure.
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Aug 4, 2020 02:30
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Communist Party USA and Angela Davis have told people to vote for the Democratic nominee as long as I've paid attention to either of them. Avakian is the real funny Biden endorsement. I don't know if that's normal, or if the Boomer love for "Refuse Fascism" means he's now got a donor base to appease.
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Aug 4, 2020 02:37
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:Brace Belden radioing in air strikes to the US gov: "I will not be revealing my current location to you, only the location of the SAA units I'd like you to bomb. You guys have been spying on us communists for too long!" this but it's stalin getting lend-lease shipments
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Aug 4, 2020 05:10
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Dreylad posted:I'm not American, so that probably helps some. I have a harder time coming to terms with Canadian politics for the same reason a lot of Americans would with their own country, I'm sure. For sure it's a lot easier when you're a detached observer.
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Aug 4, 2020 08:08
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uncop posted:Not some kind of inserted and commanded figure, just another person who limits their stances to an acceptable level of radicalism and is given some media publicity as a reward. Same as all of the popular academic left.
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Aug 4, 2020 08:29
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlUUdOdGI70
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Aug 4, 2020 08:29
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:one materialist reasoning i can see is that these older leftist tend to also be wealthier, own property, more settled etc and so are ultimately more invested in the status quo, which trump threatens, while millenials mostly have jackshit to lose. i read an article from the CPUSA party boss a few months about the election and he told a story about talking to his mother in 1992 about why he wouldn't support clinton, and his mother would just say "you like bush." and she was an old black woman who had probably experienced all kinds of stuff. and then she fell ill and died in the hospital and her last words were "you like bush." and it's like, drat  but what are you supposed to say?like... what do you say? i talk to my mother on the phone and when politics comes up she's just distraught. "it's so awful..." and if i go "well biden is just an agent of the ruling class, like trump, and..." she's not going to buy it because she wants the virus dealt with so she can go outside without wearing a mask, and maybe go see a movie, instead of being cooped inside her house for months on end. and trump winning again does mean he's going to gently caress over your mother or your grandmother, which he has pretty much promised to do including to his own supporters. not that this is an endorsement of the other guy who might as well be an empty suit, but the libs obviously aren't going anywhere.
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Aug 4, 2020 08:58
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Also there are complaints about the Biden campaign referencing FDR in his advertisements, like "how dare he compare himself to..." the president who came from one of the wealthiest patrician families in the United States? FDR was not even boojie he was one of the boojiest presidents the U.S. ever had. He didn't make all those reforms because he was "good" and a socialist and just like Bernie, and decided it was the morally correct thing to do, but because he had to, due to demands from below and in the context of the Great Depression. I don't think about the election that much. I don't think these small communist orgs do either. But it's just funny to me to see people go GRRRRR about a Communist Party saying Biden would not be as bad as Trump, because I think that is pretty silly and superficial. The Cubans and Venezuelans and the Chinese would probably prefer him in there instead of Trump, and it's going to be one or the other, and the CPUSA still maintains contacts with these surviving Marxist-Leninist parties in power. They're just very Soviet in their approach with the idea of supporting the "continuing bourgeois democratic revolution against the reactionary forces" and so forth. Meanwhile you'll see ex-Bernie supporters saying they're not going to vote for Biden because he's a "globalist" who has sold out Americans to the Chinese communists (see the comments): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W50EgkxNcPk
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Aug 4, 2020 09:26
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:she's not going to buy it because she wants the virus dealt with so she can go outside without wearing a mask, and maybe go see a movie, instead of being cooped inside her house for months on end. Dreddout posted:Bernie really was the Dems last chance to save liberalism from itself. He was the last politician with widespread youth support and they tossed him aside. I know the American political class doesn't think in material terms, but I seriously wonder what they think there plan is going to be when all the boomers die and all the young people hate them. the liberal politicians probably think it will just blow over though like last time since they believe in the end of history comedyblissoption fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Aug 4, 2020 |
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Aug 4, 2020 09:49
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it also bears mentioning that nojoe is a fundamental endorsement of electoral democracy - it means embracing a particular voting strategy to achieve some aim rather than the easier 'idgaf just vote blue i guess' what i'm saying is, people are too quick to assume bad faith imo
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Aug 4, 2020 11:30
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lol nojoe doesnt require you to vote for some russiagating dweeb in the greens or w/e
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Aug 4, 2020 11:41
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well no, but a commitment to nojoe involves an affirmation of the importance of electoral politics - actively refusing to vote for a candidate necessarily assumes that such a vote would be meaningful in some sense, i.e. it's an electoralist strategy
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Aug 4, 2020 11:55
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it doesnt mean that at all lmao it's about making fun of the legion of morons pleading and begging and scolding people to vote for sleepy joe
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Aug 4, 2020 12:18
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V. Illych L. posted:well no, but a commitment to nojoe involves an affirmation of the importance of electoral politics - actively refusing to vote for a candidate necessarily assumes that such a vote would be meaningful in some sense, i.e. it's an electoralist strategy Even saying beb is beb? Doesn't sound right to me.
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Aug 4, 2020 12:26
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