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So there was a bunch of specifically explosive poo poo stored on the docks because a Russian left it there?
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Aug 6, 2020 11:11
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| # ? May 31, 2024 22:21 |
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When you write it like that it seems like the plot of a bad in flight paperback. My question stands though: how much would it have cost to get the ship many kilometres at sea and blow it up?
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Aug 6, 2020 11:16
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Memento posted:...The thing is, none of them are going to look at bags of Nitroprill and think anything other than "what's this knock-off poo poo, no thank you". And no one at all is going to want it after a few years sitting in a damp warehouse in Lebanon. (I'm sorry)
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Aug 6, 2020 11:17
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haveblue posted:Make sure to record your final thoughts on a nearby notepad, and put two clips of ammo in your desk drawer At one point I got real tired of all the video games doing this. "People aren't just gonna audiolog everything they think as they die." I've since watched too many disaster videos of people doing exactly that poo poo. Turns out every videogame dev since Bioshock slapping journal and audiologs everywhere, especially ones of their last minutes, had a better understanding of the human psyche than most people did.
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Aug 6, 2020 11:22
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By popular demand posted:When you write it like that it seems like the plot of a bad in flight paperback. Was the ship even existing at this point or was it scrapped after the crew got send back years ago?
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Aug 6, 2020 11:23
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By popular demand posted:When you write it like that it seems like the plot of a bad in flight paperback. Write it off as target practice for the Lebanese Air Force, they've got some Cessna planes that have been retrofitted with Hellfire missiles. I was going to say tow it out with the Lebanese Navy but it doesn't look like they've got anything big enough for that. They also don't have anything with enough stand-off range to join in on the shoot without getting caught in the blast. Jack-Off Lantern posted:Was the ship even existing at this point or was it scrapped after the crew got send back years ago? It was impounded between 2014 and 2017 and has been "missing" since then. Google Earth imagery of the port shows it being tied up to the little concrete wall to the north of the blast site until at least June 2017. Can't find any good answers as to what "missing" means but that's the word a lot of people around the place are using. It will probably turn up pretty soon, the number of journalists researching it right now has to be in the hundreds.
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Aug 6, 2020 11:28
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Meanwhile theres a much bigger stockpile of the Orica non-knockoff in Newcastle here in Australia  It IS 2020 so who knows!
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Aug 6, 2020 11:30
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C.M. Kruger posted:So who in Mozambique circa 2014 would have bought 2700 tons of counterfeit Georgian ammonium nitrate used for mining explosives and then just write it off after it gets seized because the sketchy Russian shipping company was cutting corners on maintenance? From what I can find, back in 2018 28% ammonium-urea fertilizer was running like $280/ton so 2700 tons of the stuff would be close to a million dollars, so it's not like it's just a bunch of bauxite ore or jute rope or whatever where it wouldn't be economical to try and get it back. I suspect it's not all that easy to find a shipping company that will just gladly take your 2700 tons of shady explosives that have just been impounded by the Lebanese. I doubt any insurance company would accept that risk, and it seems like this all started because all they could find was a half rotten unseaworthy ship that couldn't make it past the Mediterranean. So in my mind the question is, could you deliver that million dollar shipment without at least a collateral of several millions because the cargo is uninsurable?
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Aug 6, 2020 11:37
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Humphreys posted:Meanwhile theres a much bigger stockpile of the Orica non-knockoff in Newcastle here in Australia Time to dig yourself a an NABC shelter in the outback, things can in fact get worse than this.
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Aug 6, 2020 11:37
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By popular demand posted:My question stands though: how much would it have cost to get the ship many kilometres at sea and blow it up? To get it properly out of everyone's way you'd probably need to take it to the Atlantic, and the ship wasn't considered safe enough for that. Even there, you'd be rightfully pissing off environmentalists and fishermen. Wondering if it could be used as fertilizer anyway despite being formulated as an explosive?
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Aug 6, 2020 11:39
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C.M. Kruger posted:So who in Mozambique circa 2014 would have bought 2700 tons of counterfeit Georgian ammonium nitrate used for mining explosives and then just write it off after it gets seized because the sketchy Russian shipping company was cutting corners on maintenance? From what I can find, back in 2018 28% ammonium-urea fertilizer was running like $280/ton so 2700 tons of the stuff would be close to a million dollars, so it's not like it's just a bunch of bauxite ore or jute rope or whatever where it wouldn't be economical to try and get it back. I'm guessing it needed more than 1 million in repairs and was cheaper to write it off.
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Aug 6, 2020 11:39
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By popular demand posted:When you write it like that it seems like the plot of a bad in flight paperback. In one go, no way. Mediterranean is really busy and a blast like that will break radars and such sensitive sensors on ships, and Lebanon just doesn't have any way to cordon off a big enough area from traffic. In smaller portions like one or two sacks at a time it would have been easier. With that amount it would still be expensive.
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Aug 6, 2020 11:43
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They should have chained it to a lampost with a cheap bicycle lock. The whole shipment would have disappeared within 2 hours.
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Aug 6, 2020 11:46
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Xaintrailles posted:To get it properly out of everyone's way you'd probably need to take it to the Atlantic, and the ship wasn't considered safe enough for that. Even there, you'd be rightfully pissing off environmentalists and fishermen. No. The "pril" in Nitropril refers to the process by which it is converted to small, solid pellets for ease of handling for blasting crews. I think you'd need to grind it up to use as fertilizer? I actually don't know if it would be chemically suitable, just that it definitely wouldn't be physically suitable. edit: lol I guess that assumes it's anything remotely resembling the legitimate Orica product, which is pure speculation on my part. Googling around I've looked at a bunch of results of various sorts, some old, some new. An older one I found was the price of Nitropril for a uranium mine in Kazakhstan, they were budgeting $410US per thousand kilograms. Another newer one I found was the AR 15 forums talking about how this was a great test of a new terrorism system and to expect a similar ship to be pulled up the New York or San Francisco sometime soon. There's no  big enough.
Memento fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 11:46
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I mean while it's playing the long game it's some pretty canny terrorism to take advantage of capitalism's inability to deal with a simple and urgent problem when every authority would rather pass the buck and ignore it for years on end
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Aug 6, 2020 12:06
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Osama Bin-Laden came from a rich family, he could have probably sent several dodgy ships loaded with cheap explosive to get held and confiscated instead of his lovely Master of Terror career. capitalism would have done the rest.
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Aug 6, 2020 12:10
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I mean while it's playing the long game it's some pretty canny terrorism to take advantage of capitalism's inability to deal with a simple and urgent problem when every authority would rather pass the buck and ignore it for years on end 
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Aug 6, 2020 12:12
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By popular demand posted:Time to dig yourself a an NABC shelter in the outback, things can in fact get worse than this. I'm already in the 'vaporised' range of a company site I work for. My office is in town and out of range, everytime we see smoke in the air (bushfires/backburning on the mountains) we laugh and I check my security cameras or torrent box for link to see if my house is still there.
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Aug 6, 2020 12:15
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So a brief interruption to boomchat, there was an accident at a sister facility of my workplace involving new contractors attempting to remove a 5 ton jib crane by *checks notes* chaining it to the top of a fully extended scissor lift and being surprised when it fell over as soon as they undid the floor bolts The conclusion of the internal safety review was that they should have had two scissor lifts 
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Aug 6, 2020 13:07
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shame on an IGA posted:So a brief interruption to boomchat, there was an accident at a sister facility of my workplace involving new contractors attempting to remove a 5 ton jib crane by *checks notes* chaining it to the top of a fully extended scissor lift and being surprised when it fell over as soon as they undid the floor bolts Don't those things have a weight capacity of only a few hundred pounds?
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Aug 6, 2020 13:10
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yes
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Aug 6, 2020 13:14
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So clearly the solution is actually to use a dozen scissor lifts
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Aug 6, 2020 13:30
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haveblue posted:So clearly the solution is actually to use a dozen scissor lifts If you stack them on top of each other, the capacity obviously doubles.
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Aug 6, 2020 13:33
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I found my apocalpse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiXlqxusl1Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTiKKoMl63M
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Aug 6, 2020 14:15
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Humphreys posted:I found my apocalpse This and a ramset, gently caress yes, time to ingress.
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Aug 6, 2020 14:16
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Humphreys posted:I found my apocalpse That is fricken cool
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Aug 6, 2020 14:20
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I wonder what kind of steel they use in those things and how quickly it dulls.
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Aug 6, 2020 14:25
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LifeSunDeath posted:This and a ramset, gently caress yes, time to ingress. Holy poo poo, I wonder if I could get the chief of the rescue agency I volly at to buy one. I want that so fuckin’ bad.
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Aug 6, 2020 14:31
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It has a certain Russian appeal, but I am a little wary of a device that requires you to dump a freshly-fired ammunition cartridge on the floor if you failed to cut all the way through the doorframe of a car with a person trapped in it and gasoline pooled around your feet.
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Aug 6, 2020 14:43
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Moo the cow posted:If you stack them on top of each other, the capacity obviously doubles. Does a stack of scissor lifts add up in parallel or in series?
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Aug 6, 2020 14:44
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Moo the cow posted:It has a certain Russian appeal, but I am a little wary of a device that requires you to dump a freshly-fired ammunition cartridge on the floor if you failed to cut all the way through the doorframe of a car with a person trapped in it and gasoline pooled around your feet. So what you're saying is that it needs a magazine or a revolver chamber so you can just rapid-fire cartridges and get the person out before the gasoline has a chance to ignite.
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Aug 6, 2020 14:47
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Moo the cow posted:It has a certain Russian appeal, but I am a little wary of a device that requires you to dump a freshly-fired ammunition cartridge on the floor if you failed to cut all the way through the doorframe of a car with a person trapped in it and gasoline pooled around your feet. You could probably fit it with a DIY shell catcher if you have to, but I don’t think I’d want to use it anywhere where there’s risk of flammable or explosive vapors.
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Aug 6, 2020 14:47
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Finally a suitable tool for my circumcision.
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Aug 6, 2020 15:24
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Ak Gara posted:I'm guessing it needed more than 1 million in repairs and was cheaper to write it off. Yeah, the emerging narrative seems to be this:
Around the last point, things start to get murky as everyone involved now is desperately trying to cover their own asses, but I'm pretty sure that all those points are factually accurate (please correct if not). What follows is speculation. The port authorities are trying to throw the judiciary under the bus, saying that they repeatedly appealed to the appropriate courts to be allowed to dispose of the explosives but were never given proper authorization from said court. I haven't seen any statements from the owner, but it does seem like he basically told the Lebanese authorities to gently caress off. Not saying it's right, but it's not surprising and is probably what the Lebanese authorities should have expected to happen given that he doesn't appear to have any ties to Lebanon. My read is that this is all going to boil down to who is responsible for the cost of disposal. So either: The port authorities basically kicked the can down the road and didn't want to pay to dispose of it and/or were afraid that if they gave it to the military that the owner would then ask for compensation. or The port authorities were not allowed to dispose of the explosives because a distant court and/or government agency was still trying to get the owner to pay for the disposal.
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Aug 6, 2020 15:25
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mobby_6kl posted:Finally a suitable tool for my circumcision. it might be small but it's literally made of steel 
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Aug 6, 2020 15:28
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Someone has to have a an archive of CCTV/webcam video overlooking the port that can at least tell us when the ship left.
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Aug 6, 2020 15:29
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Platystemon posted:Someone has to have a an archive of CCTV/webcam video overlooking the port that can at least tell us when the ship left. I'm going to speculate that it was shortly after the crew were allowed to be repatriated, since it seems like after the crew was gone, the explosives got moved to the warehouse pretty quickly. And once that happened, the ship was less than useless. Whether it went to the shipbreaker equivalent of a shady scrap dealer, is rusting away in some literal backwater, or someone sailed it out to deep water and opened the seacocks while everyone looked the other way is still to be determined.
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Aug 6, 2020 15:41
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The ship itself probably got resold to a ship breaker and that was that. In some morbidly dark way, I find some humour in the fact the Haber-Bosch process which is responsible for feeding basically civilization as we know it, has been directly responsible for producing some of the biggest civilian explosions ever. It's been 73 years since a ship carrying ammonium nitrate detonated in Galveston harbor, and here we as a human species are still storing massive quantities of this poo poo in suburban areas. I get that the vast majority of the reason for these detonations are  , but man, you'd think that at some point we'd stop treating this poo poo like run of the mill fertilizer and start treating it like the explosive it can be and is.
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Aug 6, 2020 15:50
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I showed the above bullet points to my Lebanese friend. He agreed with all of them, and added that the Lebanese news are saying the ship was sold for weapons smuggling in Syria.
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Aug 6, 2020 15:51
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A White Guy posted:In some morbidly dark way, I find some humour in the fact the Haber-Bosch process which is responsible for feeding basically civilization as we know it, has been directly responsible for producing some of the biggest civilian explosions ever. It's been 73 years since a ship carrying ammonium nitrate detonated in Galveston harbor, and here we as a human species are still storing massive quantities of this poo poo in suburban areas. I get that the vast majority of the reason for these detonations are It’s a fitting legacy for a man who drove his wife to suicide and left the next morning to supervise the deployment of poison gas on the eastern front.
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Aug 6, 2020 16:11
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