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I don't think I've ever seen Windows 8 with my own eyes. I've heard murmurs and rumors and rumblings of it much like a mythical undiscovered great ape, but I never thought it was real
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Aug 5, 2020 19:26
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Quaint Quail Quilt posted:Some goon told me to try open-shell about a year ago, It feels better than win 10 start menu, other than that I'm pretty vanilla though. I use StartIsBack myself but I think they're all much of a muchness
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Aug 5, 2020 19:43
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doctorfrog posted:Yeah, I only adopted Windows 10 since January, and my overall impression is that it is pretty sloppy. It limits customization, spies on you, has the usual Microsoft trash you can't remove or disable entirely, and it's a sloppy uneven mess. Really curious as to what spying Windows 10 is doing that you feel so strongly about.
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Aug 6, 2020 10:51
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beuges posted:Really curious as to what spying Windows 10 is doing that you feel so strongly about. Any telemetry is pretty much unforgivable because it eats bandwidth and battery life which are still finite resources to most people and is used for gently caress-all by Microsoft to offer a more stable product.
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Aug 6, 2020 12:47
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I use my Pi-Hole to block that telemetry traffic and hoo boy there's a lot of it.
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Aug 6, 2020 12:50
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bobfather posted:Any telemetry is pretty much unforgivable because it eats bandwidth and battery life which are still finite resources to most people and is used for gently caress-all by Microsoft to offer a more stable product. Those are valid points, but different from labelling the telemetry as spyware.
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Aug 6, 2020 13:17
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Last Chance posted:I use my Pi-Hole to block that telemetry traffic and hoo boy there's a lot of it. If I call somebody, they don't answer and I continue calling every couple minutes until they do. In my phone log it would look like I make many calls, but actually its a single phone call I am trying to make.
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Aug 7, 2020 00:27
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beuges posted:Really curious as to what spying Windows 10 is doing that you feel so strongly about. Standby for tinfoil. I object to any amount of telemetry collected on any device, without my consent, that I own or have in my home. I object to being opted-in to any telemetry by default. If a signal is being sent somewhere without your consent or control, it's wrong. Further, I don't need to cite anything to justify my suspicions, a tech company should actively seek to earn my trust before collecting any information. Any opt-in gathering of information from a device I own is itself untrustworthy. I should not have to seek out the information collected about me and evaluate it for whether or not I approve of it; the fact that it is collected at all without my express approval and permission is objectionable enough. Yes, I live in the real world. Yes, I use products all the time that do this. But just because it's everywhere, done by everyone, and is or is not benign is not justification for opt-in collection of information. I should be asked permission, it should be turned off by default, and I should have the ability to fully use the product I paid for with information collection turned off.
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Aug 7, 2020 02:20
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MikusR posted:If I call somebody, they don't answer and I continue calling every couple minutes until they do. In my phone log it would look like I make many calls, but actually its a single phone call I am trying to make. Yeah and if you're repeatedly calling like that, you're a creep.
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Aug 7, 2020 02:28
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doctorfrog posted:Standby for tinfoil. This... privacy needs to be protected
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Aug 7, 2020 03:41
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doctorfrog posted:Standby for tinfoil. I think you mean opt-out? But agreed.
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Aug 7, 2020 04:47
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MikusR posted:If I call somebody, they don't answer and I continue calling every couple minutes until they do. In my phone log it would look like I make many calls, but actually its a single phone call I am trying to make. stop doing this!!
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Aug 7, 2020 05:06
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God I loving hate Windows. I've been trying to disable every goddamn annoying system sound there is. First, the obvious place of Sound in the Old Control Panel. Setting the Sound Scheme to None doesn't disable every sound, because by default a bunch of system sounds are hidden from the Control Panel via registry keys. These include Alarm 1-10 and Incoming Call Notification 1-10 (? the gently caress?). That isn't all - there is a system beep that can be disabled via the registry (the instructions I tried didn't work) or in the command line running "sc stop beep" and "sc config beep start= disabled". This stopped an aggravating beep that sounded in Notepad++ when searching returned no results. Now the last thing I'm left with is a sound that plays the first time I login after booting. This is obviously not the Windows Logon sound in the Control Panel, because I've already set that to None, so what the gently caress is it and how do I get rid of it?
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Aug 7, 2020 05:41
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Have you considered not turning on your speakers? or using the mute button?
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Aug 7, 2020 06:08
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eXXon posted:God I loving hate Windows. What about muting via the volume mixer? 
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Aug 7, 2020 09:24
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Does Windows 10 make sounds? I turned on Focus Assist and that was pretty much that, and even then it never made a sound that wasn't caused by another program loving about. It doesn't even have a startup or shutdown sound by default, you have to enable it in system sounds. It sounds like you have third party programs causing issues, so try disabling startup programs until the sound goes away, then either mute it or try to work out why it's complaining.
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Aug 7, 2020 10:33
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I disabled all sounds in the Control Panel by selecting the "none" scheme and haven't heard any notification sounds since.
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Aug 7, 2020 10:38
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The Lord Bude posted:Have you considered not turning on your speakers? or using the mute button? They're passive speakers with the power button on the back, so it would have been annoying to have to turn them off every time or to remember to mute before shutting down, but luckily I found the cuplrit. After disabling every startup program I could, I found the sound was still playing about 12 seconds after the login screen showed up whether I logged in by then or not. It turns out that it's coming from the ScpToolkit service (drivers for PS3 Dualshock 3 controller), so it played whenever that started. I suppose the lesson is that services can also play arbitrary sounds if they feel like it. Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Does Windows 10 make sounds? I think the logon/logoff and others are off by default, but other apps can apparently play system sounds, including the hard-coded non-configurable beep in Notepad++ that I mentioned.
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Aug 7, 2020 17:34
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I know that you shouldn't have to buy new stuff, but I'd honestly replace the dual shock, as any one of the current controllers including Switch Pro has native support in Steam, with extremely good touchpad and gyro support as well. For Notepad++, just mute that one program. If that doesn't work for whatever reason then gently caress knows why they've made it that way.
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Aug 7, 2020 18:11
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So it sounds like ( ) you're blaming windows for 3rd party programs making noises?See if they show up as a separate thing in the mixer and mute them there, if it's making its own noise it'll be in there and a mute will get remembered
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Aug 7, 2020 18:14
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:For Notepad++, just mute that one program. If that doesn't work for whatever reason then gently caress knows why they've made it that way. It's fine; the "sc stop beep" and "sc config beep start= disabled" commands disabled it, as I said above. I'm not sure if it's anywhere in the Control Panel but whatever.
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Aug 7, 2020 23:49
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I just had to trouble shoot my parents' wireless HP printer and Jesus Christ I have a headache. Literally the only thing that worked is completely nuking all HP printer stuff AND uninstalling the printer as a device. Windows default printer drivers work fine somehow lol
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Aug 8, 2020 01:53
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bobfather posted:Any telemetry is pretty much unforgivable because it eats bandwidth and battery life which are still finite resources to most people and is used for gently caress-all by Microsoft to offer a more stable product. Millions of computers still got infected (by different attackers, who wrote Conficker) thanks to people not installing the update. Unrelated: Anybody know how to determine why Windows 10 2004 isn't "ready for your device"? I want to know if it's because something I'm actually using is incompatible or if it's seeing the presence of some ancient software I have installed somewhere and refusing to install.
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Aug 8, 2020 01:57
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Malloc Voidstar posted:Unrelated: Anybody know how to determine why Windows 10 2004 isn't "ready for your device"? I want to know if it's because something I'm actually using is incompatible or if it's seeing the presence of some ancient software I have installed somewhere and refusing to install. Tea leafs or entrails. Maybe https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-information/status-windows-10-2004
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Aug 8, 2020 04:14
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Malloc Voidstar posted:Here's an old story about MS08-067, where Microsoft used telemetry to discover and fix a wormable vulnerability before the attackers researching it could finish creating an actual attack. The idea that telemetry is not used by MS to improve Windows is false. The definition of telemetry in 2008 (Windows Error Reporting) is quite different than today’s telemetry. Please explain how anyone’s web browser history will stop the next big worm?
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Aug 8, 2020 04:26
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Malloc Voidstar posted:Unrelated: Anybody know how to determine why Windows 10 2004 isn't "ready for your device"? I want to know if it's because something I'm actually using is incompatible or if it's seeing the presence of some ancient software I have installed somewhere and refusing to install. If you use the upgrade assistant until the point where it bombs out, you can read the human-readable XML in the Windows/Panther directory and it'll tell you what it is. It's probably OneDrive.
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Aug 8, 2020 04:26
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bobfather posted:The definition of telemetry in 2008 (Windows Error Reporting) is quite different than today’s telemetry. Please explain how anyone’s web browser history will stop the next big worm? I mean they give their reasons right there in that page you linked, and this seems pretty well aligned with the goal of stopping exploitation of client systems: quote:Data about potentially abusive or malicious domains is used to make updates to Microsoft Edge and Windows Defender SmartScreen to warn users about the domain.
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Aug 8, 2020 04:59
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That (and also to build advertising profiles). It's 99% this reason, but don't worry about that it's for security.
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Aug 8, 2020 05:20
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jokes posted:and also to build advertising profiles Source?
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Aug 8, 2020 08:33
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MikusR posted:Source? Capitalism.
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Aug 8, 2020 12:52
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biznatchio posted:I mean they give their reasons right there in that page you linked, and this seems pretty well aligned with the goal of stopping exploitation of client systems: Mmhmm. What about the telemetry for ink, on-screen keyboard and speech? They seem to capture everything you write, type, or ask about and also have ways to tell if a child is writing, typing, or using Cortana. Will you say that all that telemetry over the years has been used to make Microsoft inking superior to Apple’s implementation? Or Cortana’s speech recognition better than Google’s?
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Aug 8, 2020 13:17
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bobfather posted:Mmhmm. What about the telemetry for ink, on-screen keyboard and speech? They seem to capture everything you write, type, or ask about and also have ways to tell if a child is writing, typing, or using Cortana. Why are you moving goalposts by comparing the quality of Microsoft's implementations? Microsoft's usage of telemetry has no bearing on quality of implementation relative to other companies, who are also capturing as much data as possible for their implementations.
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Aug 8, 2020 13:24
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isndl posted:Why are you moving goalposts by comparing the quality of Microsoft's implementations? Microsoft's usage of telemetry has no bearing on quality of implementation relative to other companies, who are also capturing as much data as possible for their implementations. Sorry, I realized in my first quoted post on this page I merely opined about telemetry not seeming to be used to increase the stability of Windows. I guess it is moving goalposts to suggest that the telemetry also isn’t being used to offer better features than competitors. I’ll reframe my question from earlier: How does knowing exactly what a child is typing on the on-screen keyboard help with the stability of the on-screen keyboard?
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Aug 8, 2020 13:30
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Well hypothetically it could avoid completing to words kids shouldn't be seeing. Or ignoring data that's not really coming from someone using the keyboard properly, which would make its accuracy worse? And you're not allowed to use personalised advertising in a lot of jurisdictions if a kid is using the device, so maybe they'd want to avoid that and the hefty fines with Cortana. Like some of this stuff could actually be good from a data protection perspective, as in being forced to take measures to comply with it Without knowing the details though, who knows? It's free software op baka kaba fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Aug 8, 2020 |
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Aug 8, 2020 15:56
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bobfather posted:Mmhmm. What about the telemetry for ink, on-screen keyboard and speech? They seem to capture everything you write, type, or ask about and also have ways to tell if a child is writing, typing, or using Cortana. That's not what that does. It's not capturing and sending in everything you do, it's sending statistics about use. At most for stuff like Ink it'll send in isolated bits of handwriting where the recognition algorithm made mistakes. (Stuff you type in / say to cortana does go to MS of course, but that's because cortana is a search engine. If you use google, google knows what you search for. If you use any voice assistant, the panopticon has recordings of your voice.) bobfather posted:I’ll reframe my question from earlier: How does knowing exactly what a child is typing on the on-screen keyboard help with the stability of the on-screen keyboard? They treat child data differently because there are laws in the US and EU that are much more strict about child data, and they don't have exceptions for "but we're using to improve our product" or "this is just one word that our app couldn't recognize". If you collect data from kids you have to do one of two things: follow those stricter rules for everything, or silo off the kids. This is why pretty much every internet service makes you tell them your age. Also I think you are conflating some privacy info from Win10 telemetry (generally innocuous and non-personal, other than the websites thing) with MS Account privacy (way more personal data, like a google account). Don't use a MS Account.
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Aug 8, 2020 16:14
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A good poster posted:Capitalism. If you have proof then contact FTC and news organizations. They will be interested.
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Aug 8, 2020 16:17
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MikusR posted:If you have proof then contact FTC and news organizations. They will be interested. Source: I just did a fresh install. I use open shell and only use edge for video, so it doesn't apply to me much anyway
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Aug 9, 2020 01:02
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Quaint Quail Quilt posted:I've literally seen an option to disable tailored ads when you install windows, you can opt out some of the stuff so it's like you are opting in if you don't. We were talking about using browser history telemetry for targeted advertisements. Tailored experiences specifically exclude that.
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Aug 9, 2020 04:04
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I think the general rule of thumb is to assume that huge tech companies that make money off of getting as much data as possible off of you will attempt to get as much data as possible off of you in strangely insidious ways. Syncing your browser history across devices by way of a unified account that also serves as the hub of all the other data they've gotten off you seems like a really weird thing to assume they don't track. Microsoft knows that you went to https://www.somethingawful.com by way of telemetry purposes. Should we assume they aren't going to attempt to make money off of that data by building it into your profile?
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Aug 9, 2020 04:12
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jokes posted:I think the general rule of thumb is to assume that huge tech companies that make money off of getting as much data as possible off of you will attempt to get as much data as possible off of you in strangely insidious ways. Syncing your browser history across devices by way of a unified account that also serves as the hub of all the other data they've gotten off you seems like a really weird thing to assume they don't track. I feel like Microsoft is uniquely positioned by way of being a traditional tech juggernaut that lost an anti-trust lawsuit and since silo'd all its teams. Yeah, the telemetry team has your data, but the telemetry team also put a ton of work into their privacy safeguards and is very willing to tell the user profiling team to gently caress off.
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Aug 9, 2020 04:38
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