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Wark Say posted:Oh most def. I enjoyed Apoc for what it is and it's a fun game. It just didn't give me the same highs that Vanilla IV and Nocturne gave me when it came time to kicking rear end and taking names. Yeah It's a pretty fun game, I just can't say I ever give it a second thought after beating it like I do with most other megaten games
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Aug 7, 2020 03:54
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:If they had made it a $30 DLC for owners of the original and let you ng+ from your save, I would have bought it day one.  It's basically the same as the DQ11S situation. They release the PS4/Steam versions first, and I bought the game then, because there was no word on the Switch version at that point other than "it will exist at some point". Then the Switch version comes out a literal year later with all these QoL improvements and the 2D stuff from the canned 3DS version, and I feel kinda cheated for being an early adopter. Now they release the Switch version for PC/PS4 as the Definitive Edition, and early adopters are STILL left out in the cold because it's a whole new updated version as opposed to a $30 DLC pack.
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Aug 7, 2020 04:13
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Then again, they did the paid DLC route for Pokemon and people were foaming at the mouth.
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Aug 7, 2020 04:27
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ApplesandOranges posted:Then again, they did the paid DLC route for Pokemon and people were foaming at the mouth. They were foaming at the mouth because they weren't getting the exact improbable thing that they wanted, which was some combination of 'free Pokedex expansion', 'gen 4 remakes', and 'Let's Go Johto'. Even though they literally did get that first one. At this point a lot of the louder angry Pokemon fans have preemptively decided to be mad, either by drawing completely absurd conditions for satisfaction or just straight-up ignoring reality. They're at the summit of the mountain that 'Persona 5 on Switch' people have only begun to climb.
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Aug 7, 2020 04:31
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ApplesandOranges posted:Then again, they did the paid DLC route for Pokemon and people were foaming at the mouth. Probably would've been received fine if they hadn't cut hundreds of pokemon, because the most profitable franchise on earth couldn't afford to make the models.
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Aug 7, 2020 04:32
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Weren't the models used in SW/SH just the hi rez masters of the ones used in the 3ds games? Meaning they already had the models too..
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Aug 7, 2020 04:33
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Gaius Marius posted:Probably would've been received fine if they hadn't cut hundreds of pokemon, because the most profitable franchise on earth couldn't afford to make the models. I mean they were already mad about that before the dlc was announced.
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Aug 7, 2020 04:37
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Weren't the models used in SW/SH just the hi rez masters of the ones used in the 3ds games? Meaning they already had the models too.. Please just buy the product instead of asking questions. I assure you there was no way they could've afforded to make a game that had the full pokedex, dungeons, or any of the numerous features they've cut throughout the gens.
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Aug 7, 2020 04:38
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Gaius Marius posted:Probably would've been received fine if they hadn't cut hundreds of pokemon, because the most profitable franchise on earth couldn't afford to make the models. Hot drat, right on cue. This is largely disconnected to Megaten, but I do want to set the record straight on this one: they've outright said it takes months to implement a Pokemon. And that's not even a new one, because there's a lot that has to go into implementing a Pokemon. On top of making/upgrading the model (which, you know, isn't nothing), every single one has to be statted out, given a movelist, usually factored into the actual game world in terms of spawn location and trainers, and then get introduced to whatever new concepts that turn up for that generation, including gen-specific stuff like Z-moves and Dynamax as well as simpler stuff like new moves and abilities, or just interactions with the Pokemon allocation that's already there. And most of that can't get skipped for returning Pokemon. It's not just a matter of 'Make Graphics More Good'.
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Aug 7, 2020 04:42
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Cleretic posted:Hot drat, right on cue. You don't have to defend billion dollar franchises Edit: Just to not be a dick, They put out a lovely subpar product with dozens of good features people wanted and expected cut. You can rationalize it however you want, but like Mario man says a delayed game will be good, a bad game will always be bad. Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Aug 7, 2020 |
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Aug 7, 2020 04:46
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I'm pretty sure they already have a spreadsheet with all the Pokemon stats that they can just import. That doesn't normally change between generations. The art should be the only hard part.
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Aug 7, 2020 04:49
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Clarste posted:I'm pretty sure they already have a spreadsheet with all the Pokemon stats that they can just import. That doesn't normally change between generations. The art should be the only hard part. This is an inappropriate venue for talking about children's pocket monsters. We only talk about terrifying demons here. 
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Aug 7, 2020 04:55
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But what about DemiKids?
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Aug 7, 2020 04:58
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What about DemiKids?
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Aug 7, 2020 05:02
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Is demikids worth playing? I want to know. for the first english game in the franchise(or was that Persona 1) nobody ever talks about it
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Aug 7, 2020 05:05
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Nah. It's really boring. I got it when I was like 12 for a roadtrip and was pretty underwhelmed. Still beat it though but missed out on stuff since I didn't know anyone with the Light version to link up with or whatever the deal with that was. Was funny that they kept Lucifer as is in an E rated game though.
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Aug 7, 2020 05:09
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Clarste posted:I'm pretty sure they already have a spreadsheet with all the Pokemon stats that they can just import. That doesn't normally change between generations. The art should be the only hard part. Stats actually change more often than you think, and do more than you think. It's actually stunning if you look at competitive Pokemon where that stuff REALLY matters and see things like '20 point buff in special defense, this is THE ERA OF VICTREEBELL' and it actually has a measurable effect. The same things happen with movelists, which shift around every generation even before factoring in totally new moves and TM selections, which of course are gamechangers. And then if you want to actually put them in the game world as a catchable Pokemon (which they usually do) you have to factor in things like 'okay this Steel-type is meant for around the second, third gym, does the game's selection and areas at that time actually have things it synergizes with so it's not just a lone weirdo? Is there enough that's good against it that it isn't a total fucker to fight at that stage? If we instead put it later, is it totally obsolete?' Pokemon is complicated, yo. And there's a lot of romhacks and fangames that showcase how bad it is if you do it bad, because a lot of these considerations are largely invisible.
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Aug 7, 2020 05:10
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Gaius Marius posted:Is demikids worth playing? I want to know. for the first english game in the franchise(or was that Persona 1) nobody ever talks about it Not surprised nobody knows about it.
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Aug 7, 2020 05:13
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Nah. It's really boring. I got it when I was like 12 for a roadtrip and was pretty underwhelmed. Still beat it though but missed out on stuff since I didn't know anyone with the Light version to link up with or whatever the deal with that was. This game is bizarre it starts with lucifer and Norn, but the music is crazyily generic RPG instead of SMT flavored, all the Lads look like generic anime characters. It looks like that yu gi oh game for GBA sacread cards or something. Hi i'm ami I've heard your into summoning demons Oh the mall has a demon lab At least it doesn't gently caress around full party ten minutes in Pixy is male, very strange Jack frost is miny icy. I'm thinking this game ain't any good Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Aug 7, 2020 |
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Aug 7, 2020 05:19
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woops
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Aug 7, 2020 05:47
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I think a lot of the sword and shield backlash is gamers growing out of pokemon, looking back on the series and thinking "oh no oh wait these are actually bad games my life is a lie i'll just watch pokemon yellow speedruns instead"
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Aug 7, 2020 06:23
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No it actually had quite a few problems
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Aug 7, 2020 06:27
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yeah I'm not discounting that, but a lot of the complaints I heard were "this game literally hasn't changed in any meaningful way in decades, they just keep rehashing poo poo as lazily as possible" which are also complaints I heard about every other pokemon game since the gbc. I think you could throw as much money as exists in the world at that team and they would come up with the exact same rushed mess clone shovelware they always make oh my god I really don't like pokemon games
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Aug 7, 2020 06:30
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If they were still making generic red blue/ gold silver level clones I'd still be playing them. The fact is they're regressing. Pokemon, mégas, follow Pokemon, dungeons post game content all of em have been removed or reduced. Pokemon blue was the first game I ever played. I don't want to dislike the new games but the quality of games they're putting out now is embarrassing
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Aug 7, 2020 06:35
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I think I started to flame out around Black/White, and while ORAS and then SuMo was a return to form I think I was just tired by then. So it's probably me just not being able to keep up anymore, and then newer stuff haven't done enough to get me excited again.
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Aug 7, 2020 06:58
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I think the main thing that hurt Sword and Shield wasn't necessarily that it did anything wrong (I actually think it's probably the strongest generation in more ways than it isn't), but that it was the one that finally had to make some hard choices. They were never going to be able to keep adding on to the previous games indefinitely. Every new Pokemon in one generation adds to the load in importing all the old ones into the next; every new battle mechanic is another new layer to factor into the design of future games and Pokemon. Every single new generation made it harder to import everything from the older generations, and there came a time that eventually, it just wasn't feasible to do that entire porting job for day one of a generation just because someone, somewhere, will be desperate to use a Durant as soon as possible. The only real comparison is a bit like if a fighting game franchise had spent 20+ years only ever adding to their roster, never, ever taking away, until eventually they had a release where that just wasn't possible anymore. I'm still surprised it took until generation eight for them to reach that point, if I were guessing what the breaking point was I'd have been sure it'd be the 3D models in gen 6. The timing suggests that the straw that broke the camel's back was Z-moves, but honestly I think they were on borrowed time ever since they put in a second wave of Mega-Evolutions in the Ruby and Sapphire remakes.
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Aug 7, 2020 11:06
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Gaius Marius posted:This game is bizarre it starts with lucifer and Norn, but the music is crazyily generic RPG instead of SMT flavored, all the Lads look like generic anime characters. It looks like that yu gi oh game for GBA sacread cards or something. It's incredibly wild in that the two branching titles have entirely different stories that just cross over at points, and also there are a lot more training potties than I expected from it. But it does suck, yes.
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Aug 7, 2020 12:05
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Atsuro's ending is the start of a new SMT. Man, 2009 must be an innocent time where giving the government the controlled usage of demons is considered a good end.
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Aug 7, 2020 15:09
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I tried Puzzle Boy. I can't recall what stage I made it up to in my first run but here I only made it to Stage 7. I just can't do it. Not only is my brain no good at this kind of Chess-like see several steps ahead thinking, it is so profoundly, mindnumbingly boring. I've been stumped in many video games and I love a challenge. But the challenge of SMT is if one strategy doesn't work, go out and find another. Make better demons, give your demons specific abilities, hone your team for a fight. Here? There is one way and one way only to victory and if you don't see it, you just lose again and again. It's not fun for me. I do like puzzles, but I dunno. It's the puzzles like the moon cycle stuff in the tower dungeon that I'll be going to soon. And the entier idea of a game about puzzles is totally not for me, hence why I'll never play that Catherine game my fellow Atlus fans have raved about for years. IIRC HardType allowed you to just buy the Magatama you won from the kid. I would bet anything Nocturne HD won't make a similar improvement. I guess we'll see but I predict a new generation of people getting frustrated and calling it quits/looking up a guide. I won't look up a guide, I'll just make do without the Magatama. Tired Moritz posted:Atsuro's ending is the start of a new SMT. Man, 2009 must be an innocent time where giving the government the controlled usage of demons is considered a good end. Pretty sure Gin's idea was the better one in terms of more "Neutral" routes.
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Aug 7, 2020 15:27
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NikkolasKing posted:I can't believe this. I've always heard how Daisouujou's Meditation is broken but I figured it was because it restores a lot of HP and MP. You've got a perpetual mage with no weaknesses and a lot of great immunities. It was great being able to cast Fog Breath over and over again. It's possible to fuse a Daisoujou with Makatora and Watchful. Having Makatora on it removes your MP woes for the rest of the game, while having Watchful lets Daisoujou level in the back row to let it keep up with the power curve.
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Aug 7, 2020 15:55
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amigolupus posted:It's possible to fuse a Daisoujou with Makatora and Watchful. Having Makatora on it removes your MP woes for the rest of the game, while having Watchful lets Daisoujou level in the back row to let it keep up with the power curve. that li'l bell's gonna come ringing we've all gotta answer that bell that li'l bell's gonna come ringing to send every demon to hell
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Aug 7, 2020 16:09
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Apocaplyse’s gameplay is phenomenal but the story is a really meh Persona knockoff with some cool bits that doesn’t fit the tone of SMT at all. Massacre is pretty fun though and I’d respect the games balls if that was the only way to fight the true final boss. The last dungeon is a complete afterthought in Bonds
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Aug 7, 2020 17:03
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Quick side question: magic or strength for DDS 1? Leaning strength so I can Rend and Slaughter.
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Aug 7, 2020 17:41
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RevolverDivider posted:Apocaplyse’s gameplay is phenomenal but the story is a really meh Persona knockoff with some cool bits that doesn’t fit the tone of SMT at all. I think this is probably why the Apocalypse story is so unpopular among SMT fans. They took a conventional SMT plot and centered it around the power of friendship. I think some parts of that don't land (basically everything related to the assassin girl, Toki, is terrible,) but some cool stuff does happen. I think my favorite "story in dialogue with itself" thing they do is to introduce Gaston and Hallelujah, who are very much traditional Law and Chaos characters; but in the end, they side with the protagonist against their respective alignment paragons. But yeah, it's mostly about the gameplay. It's not only the literal mechanics of the game itself; the UI around the battle system also just feels good. Menus are quick to navigate; animations are fast and punchy; the unique death effects are satisfying; the sound effects and music are both solid. The partner system is pretty clearly just a way to square the circle of "we want a party of Nanashi and a bunch of demons" and "the story we wrote has a big cast of characters," but it doesn't take up much conceptual space and it provides some texture to the pacing of boss battles. And of course, press turn still owns.
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Aug 7, 2020 18:01
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BrightWing posted:Quick side question: magic or strength for DDS 1? Leaning strength so I can Rend and Slaughter. There's only enough physical skills to really use one strength character at a time in DDS1 and Atsuro is one of your only party members for most of the game. Definitely magic.
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Aug 7, 2020 19:00
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WrightOfWay posted:There's only enough physical skills to really use one strength character at a time in DDS1 and Atsuro is one of your only party members for most of the game. Definitely magic. He's talking about Digital Devil Saga
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Aug 7, 2020 19:03
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BrightWing posted:Quick side question: magic or strength for DDS 1? Leaning strength so I can Rend and Slaughter. I don't have an answer to this but in case you don't already know you should try to send each character down the path for their opposite element so that you can get resist and null skills to cover up their weaknesses. So for Serph this means learning fire magic instead of ice
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Aug 7, 2020 19:05
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Pretty sure I made Serph a caster and let heat do all the eating. It's not too difficult if a game so there's no real trap options
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Aug 7, 2020 20:48
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SMT4A's story is absolutely not similar to any modern Persona game's other than that friendship is a thing that exists
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Aug 7, 2020 21:56
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Saagonsa posted:SMT4A's story is absolutely not similar to any modern Persona game's other than that friendship is a thing that exists You're not wrong, but in generally speaking in mainline SMT games friendship does not exist.
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Aug 7, 2020 22:06
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