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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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The contras were particularly bad because their whole MO for undermining the Nicaraguan government was "let's rape and kill every peasant we can find". This is the type of person who is now welcome in our "left-wing" party and people are still trying to argue that we will be able to pull Biden left somehow.
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Aug 7, 2020 18:11
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Biden has made real efforts to at least appear to be moving left on domestic policy, but I can’t think of anything similar he’s done in foreign policy. He’s not even highlighting the odd Good Obama Foreign Policy like the JCPOA and has focused more on “looking tough”. Our best hope is that he does as little abroad as possible, but the terrible post-Reagan foreign policy consensus isn’t going anywhere under him. I mean, the last president to pass real left wing programs also got us into the worst proxy war of the entire Cold War, so the two ideas can coexist. I’m much more confident his foreign policy will be bad than I am his domestic policy will be good, though. 
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Aug 7, 2020 18:41
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Here's an article from the Washington Post that basically states that Biden has been all over the place when it comes to his support for various wars, including being back and forth on what to do in Afghanistan. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/18/biden-afghanistan-military-power/?arc404=true Washington Post posted:In the 1990s, Biden had made an impassioned argument that U.S. credibility and the country’s moral standing demanded that it use military force to stop a slaughter in the Balkans. In Afghanistan, Biden rejected the notion that America had any moral obligation to improve the lives of Afghans or prevent civil wars.
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Aug 7, 2020 18:42
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People were talking about Carter earlier. Interestingly, Carter actually worked with and provided aid to the Sandinistas, and then Reagan came in and openly funded the Contras and helped them destroy the country. I guess the dems have moved to the right on this specific issue too.
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Aug 7, 2020 18:43
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joepinetree posted:Democrats most definitely have a establishment and a hierarchy. One that coordinated and cooperated both internally and with donors on how to drag the party right. It wasn't a haphazard process. But I don't really get what your point is here. Jimmy Carter went against a segregationist during the 76 primaries trying to rebrand himself in the 70s. As much as I agree that Carter isn't some progressive dream, he did have some positive welfare reform policies that were nixed with Democratic control, and in turn people in the party pitted Kennedy who I'd argue was a bit more progressive than Carter on several fronts against him. I feel like your post paints the image of the DNC has having this planned and uniformed right wing movement, and that's just not true. You're absolutely right that there was a shift away from New Deal type politics in the 70s even before Carter came in as the DNC began to resettle itself after the political realignment of the 60s. But like are you arguing that if Humphrey had beat Nixon and called for an earlier ceasefire in Vietnam that would not impact things? Or was the election that defined the last half a century of politics somehow part of the plan? I'm sorry, but as much as I'll side with you that Carter was not some progressive hero of leftwing politics and as much as I will blame Democrats who supported right wing policies, I think it absolutely was haphazard. Carter's not a Progressive hero, but Carter was also at times to the Left of many of his fellow Democrats. The Democratic Party has not been following some grand conspiracy to the Right because they have not consistently moved to the right. They're a big tent filled with conflicted interests of contradictory and over hypocritical people, and there is an ebb and flow to who has power. Yeah, there are hierarchies and power exists, but they also respond to national trends and the zeitgeist. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Aug 7, 2020 |
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Aug 7, 2020 18:57
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Mellow Seas posted:Biden has made real efforts to at least appear to be moving left on domestic policy, but I can’t think of anything similar he’s done in foreign policy. He’s not even highlighting the odd Good Obama Foreign Policy like the JCPOA and has focused more on “looking tough”. Our best hope is that he does as little abroad as possible, but the terrible post-Reagan foreign policy consensus isn’t going anywhere under him.
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Aug 7, 2020 18:57
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punishedkissinger posted:The contras were particularly bad because their whole MO for undermining the Nicaraguan government was "let's rape and kill every peasant we can find". This is the type of person who is now welcome in our "left-wing" party and people are still trying to argue that we will be able to pull Biden left somehow. yea there's no 'ethical' way to overthrow a government but the Contras were really a special kind of evil where their plan was basically just 'if we run rampant like a barbarian horde raping and pillaging then the pro-dictator people can go 'wow look how unstable and violent the country is'. Like, there was no 'statecraft' or spy work involved it was just brutality and cruelty. And that's who Joe Biden values more than leftist voices, and that's who you vote for if you vote for Biden
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Aug 7, 2020 19:02
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Mellow Seas posted:Biden has made real efforts to at least appear to be moving left on domestic policy, Citation loving Needed.
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Aug 7, 2020 19:31
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:All of you people who have spent months repeating "Biden can be pulled leftwards!" and "Most progressive platform in history" should really be made to answer for Anna loving Navarro, actual real-life death squad apologist. That argument is the sort of stupid that can't be reasoned with. There's obviously no remotely plausible path by which a Biden administration is convinced to move left, but these people have a dogmatic belief that there's always a possibility of Democratic politicians doing good things in the future. I have yet to see anyone articulate how this is specifically supposed happen; I think the idea is that the Democratic Party/Biden administration suddenly decide that they need to support left-wing ideas to be re-elected, but this is completely ludicrous to anyone who isn't an idiot. They basically feel like it's unreasonable to not constantly be open to the possibility of Democrats doing good things in the future. This ultimately stems from the fact that they absorb their perception of politics from mainstream US political culture and have a gut feeling that opinions outside of that sphere can't be correct. Timeless Appeal posted:I'm sorry, but as much as I'll side with you that Carter was not some progressive hero of leftwing politics and as much as I will blame Democrats who supported right wing policies, I think it absolutely was haphazard. Carter's not a Progressive hero, but Carter was also at times to the Left of many of his fellow Democrats. The Democratic Party has not been following some grand conspiracy to the Right because they have not consistently moved to the right. They're a big tent filled with conflicted interests of contradictory and over hypocritical people, and there is an ebb and flow to who has power. Yeah, there are hierarchies and power exists, but they also respond to national trends and the zeitgeist. I think you're confusing "there's some variation within the party" with "the party has no consistent ideology." It's possible for there to be some variation while still having certain lines the party is completely unwilling to cross. The Democratic Party could have taken various forms during the latter half of the 20th century, but all of those forms would have been firmly opposed to the left.
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Aug 7, 2020 19:33
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Ytlaya posted:That argument is the sort of stupid that can't be reasoned with. There's obviously no remotely plausible path by which a Biden administration is convinced to move left, but these people have a dogmatic belief that there's always a possibility of Democratic politicians doing good things in the future. I have yet to see anyone articulate how this is specifically supposed happen; I think the idea is that the Democratic Party/Biden administration suddenly decide that they need to support left-wing ideas to be re-elected, but this is completely ludicrous to anyone who isn't an idiot. There's a lot of otherwise very media literate people who buy into the messaging that the democrats put out from time to time. I know Parker Molloy will often go to town on people who suggest that the House passes leftish bills while out of power that they never, ever would if there were some chance that they would actually become law. And she's a very respectable journalist who pokes holes in lies for a living. I think there's a need for people to see politics as having some measure of good faith when there really isn't any substantial evidence that that's actually the case. A lot of people will see Ana Navarro joining up as a good sign that "finally the gridlock in Washington will end!" but I'm not really sure how they come to that conclusion short of simply uncritically taking everything at face value. Well, not even face value. Preface value? Whatever it is that would allow you to see "I'll reach across the isle" as an end instead of a means, I guess.
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Aug 7, 2020 19:38
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article's kinda hinky and fails to day what she's actually doing for/with the Biden campaign, but from what I can tell it's referring to this: https://twitter.com/jeremymbarr/status/1291061165012004865?s=19 which isn't great
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Aug 7, 2020 19:56
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Timeless Appeal posted:I really don't know what your point is here though. Obviously there is an establishment and hierarchy, but that's not in of itself bad. Obviously there is ridiculous imbalance of power based on money in both parties which is bad. Carter first ran for governor as an anti-integration candidate. His main opponent was Carl Sanders, owner of the Atlanta Hawks, so the Carter campaign distributed pictures of Sanders with Black basketball players to win election. He was less interventionist than a lot of his party, but he was in no way, shape or form "left." And yes, the democrats have consistently moved to the right. The DNC isn't filled with people who just happen, by coincidence, to be lobbyists. They are lobbyists first and foremost. The people who made deficit reduction the cornerstone of the 1984 and 1988 campaigns were the people who were part of the Clinton administration. All you have to do is read any history of the people who created the Democratic Leadership Council, of people like Al From, Lloyd Bentsen. Or of the changes that were implemented because of the insurgent anti-war candidates of 68 and 72. A lot of money from the military industry and from finance went into making sure that democrats would also welcome war and deregulation.
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Aug 7, 2020 20:14
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joepinetree posted:Carter first ran for governor as an anti-integration candidate. His main opponent was Carl Sanders, owner of the Atlanta Hawks, so the Carter campaign distributed pictures of Sanders with Black basketball players to win election. He was less interventionist than a lot of his party, but he was in no way, shape or form "left." We Got People covers a lot of this ground from a progressive perspective
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Aug 7, 2020 20:17
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MonsieurChoc posted:Citation loving Needed. “Real efforts to at least appear” is not a high, or adequate, standard, but Biden has met it. His outreach to Bernie and AOC, moving carbon goal to 2035, etc have been clear attempts to appear more palatable to the left. I’m not saying he’s going to actually do any of that poo poo but he’s made it part of his messaging, which he has not even attempted to do on FP.
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Aug 7, 2020 20:38
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https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1291812724683558913?s=20 What angle of attack do you think they would take?
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Aug 7, 2020 20:52
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Herstory Begins Now posted:https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1291812724683558913?s=20 ads on facebook that 200 people will see. if it's like last time.
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Aug 7, 2020 20:59
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Buff Howie?
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Aug 7, 2020 21:00
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is pepsi ok posted:Buff Howie? inshallah
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Aug 7, 2020 21:00
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Famethrowa posted:ads on facebook that 200 people will see. I can't wait for Biden to do like Trump and spend his entire administration 'investigating' a conspiracy against him that didn't actually happen. In 2024 we'll get a somber senate briefing from majority leader Ted Cruz explaining that the fifth bipartisan committee to investigate found that Russian hacker cells named "KumGoblin and FancyDress" spent seven million dollars to make facebook adds seen by 12 people that said Joe Biden raped Baby Yoda.
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Aug 7, 2020 21:06
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Famethrowa posted:ads on facebook that 200 people will see. I think your number might be off here.
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Aug 7, 2020 21:08
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I think your number might be off here. there were a handful of successful ads (buff bernie lost hillary the election), but the vast majority went nowhere. of all the shady poo poo involving Russian intelligence agencies, that was the funniest and least effective.
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Aug 7, 2020 21:12
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Mellow Seas posted:“Real efforts to at least appear” is not a high, or adequate, standard, but Biden has met it. His outreach to Bernie and AOC, moving carbon goal to 2035, etc have been clear attempts to appear more palatable to the left. I’m not saying he’s going to actually do any of that poo poo but he’s made it part of his messaging, which he has not even attempted to do on FP. He didn't do any actual outreach, and his team has been poo poo-talking anyone to the left of Reagan. He has made zero attempts to appeal to the left, and in fact it has been made clear that the Dems want the left crushed and obedient.
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Aug 7, 2020 21:22
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joepinetree posted:Carter first ran for governor as an anti-integration candidate. His main opponent was Carl Sanders, owner of the Atlanta Hawks, so the Carter campaign distributed pictures of Sanders with Black basketball players to win election. He was less interventionist than a lot of his party, but he was in no way, shape or form "left." I agree with you that Carter was not a left candidate in any meaningful sense and was not portrayed by that at the time. There was an extent to which, like all politicians, he tried to be everyone to everyone, so there were some people who saw him as a left liberal, but I think his main brand was political outsider that would make government work for the people. However, that all men to all people strategy was also evident in his governor race, in the primary he was anti segregation and in the general he wasn't explicitly anti-integration he was anti-integration in a coded manner. When he was in power he was not anti-integration at all. In fact from his inauguration onward he was viewed as a betrayer. From his inaugural speech: " At the end of a long campaign, I believe I know our people as well as anyone. Based on this knowledge of Georgians North and South, Rural and Urban, liberal and conservative, I say to you quite frankly that the time for Governor Jimmy Carter’s Inaugural Address – January 12, 1971 1 racial discrimination is over. Our people have already made this major and difficult decision, but we cannot underestimate the challenge of hundreds of minor decisions yet to be made. Our inherent human charity and our religious beliefs will be taxed to the limit. No poor, rural, weak, or black person should ever have to bear the additional burden of being deprived of the opportunity of an education, a job or simple justice. We Georgians are fully capable of making our judgments and managing our own affairs. We who are strong or in positions of leadership must realize that the responsibility for making correct decisions in the future is ours. As Governor, I will never shirk this responsibility. "
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Aug 7, 2020 21:32
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No AOC or anybody under 55 but we get Republican John Kasich and the Clintons! https://twitter.com/politico/status/1291683023910572032?s=20
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Aug 7, 2020 22:10
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GreyjoyBastard posted:article's kinda hinky and fails to day what she's actually doing for/with the Biden campaign, but from what I can tell it's referring to this: any follow up on this? GreyjoyBastard posted:it's a clip that, as is traditional, starts off at the part we're supposed to get mad at, and as is slightly less traditional, cuts off before he finishes his sentence, so eh joepinetree posted:Here's the full transcript from that quote:
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Aug 7, 2020 22:16
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is pepsi ok posted:Buff Howie? Buff Howie is already a loving fact. https://twitter.com/HowieHawkins/status/1259170671567015936?s=20
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Aug 7, 2020 22:29
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Bootleg Trunks posted:No AOC or anybody under 55 but we get Republican John Kasich and the Clintons!
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Aug 7, 2020 22:32
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Phone posted:any follow up on this? actually i missed that post, so sure, biden line was dumb
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Aug 7, 2020 22:36
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Bootleg Trunks posted:No AOC or anybody under 55 but we get Republican John Kasich and the Clintons! bernie becoming a loving stage-prop for the DNC to parade on-stage is seriously depressing
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Aug 7, 2020 22:38
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Famethrowa posted:bernie becoming a loving stage-prop for the DNC to parade on-stage is seriously depressing Bernie and an actual factual Republican sharing a night is amazingly gross to me.
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Aug 7, 2020 22:43
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Phone posted:any follow up on this? Bad things said about Democrats deserve the utmost scrutiny (and also have an expiration period of like 6 months), while good things are just blindly trusted until debunked in the most stark and undeniable manner possible.
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Aug 7, 2020 23:02
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lol wait did biden really not announce his VP today I thought he said this week? He's got like fuckin 10 days to the convention.
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Aug 7, 2020 23:08
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He probably forgot, on account of he's a senile, demented gently caress.
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Aug 7, 2020 23:10
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I looked it up and clinton announced Kaine on the loving 22nd of July, the convention was on the 25th so I guess as long as he doesn't do it literally the day before the con he's still ahead of the curve????
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Aug 7, 2020 23:12
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sexpig by night posted:I looked it up and clinton announced Kaine on the loving 22nd of July, the convention was on the 25th so I guess as long as he doesn't do it literally the day before the con he's still ahead of the curve???? he can actually do it up through the last day of the convention, but it would probably be a good idea to at least a little bit organize things for Vice President Karen Bass sexpig by night posted:yea like I'm pretty sure he doesn't even fully have to do it at the convention but yea you kinda need to give your number two a little pre-horse race time to work! i believe the convention delegates vote for who they're going to nominate for both slots, so Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Aug 7, 2020 |
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Aug 7, 2020 23:18
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yea like I'm pretty sure he doesn't even fully have to do it at the convention but yea you kinda need to give your number two a little pre-horse race time to work!
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Aug 7, 2020 23:19
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Crows Turn Off posted:They seriously just need to get rid of the Clintons. Losing to Trump should have been the end of their public careers forever. Nope, Dems are a pro-rape party now, so being a rapist is a huge selling point for getting a speaking role. Surprised they aren't bringing Al Franken up on the stage and forcing Gillibrand to publicly apologize to him now that they've taken MeToo behind the shed and put a bullet in it.
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Aug 7, 2020 23:21
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Nope, Dems are a pro-rape party now, so being a rapist is a huge selling point for getting a speaking role. Surprised they aren't bringing Al Franken up on the stage and forcing Gillibrand to publicly apologize to him now that they've taken MeToo behind the shed and put a bullet in it. guest speaker: Alyssa Milano, President of #MeToo
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Aug 7, 2020 23:26
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sexpig by night posted:lol wait did biden really not announce his VP today I thought he said this week?
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Aug 7, 2020 23:27
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| # ? Jun 2, 2024 12:05 |
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I for one can't wait for months of terrible 'the bass are biden' jokes
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Aug 7, 2020 23:27
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