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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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I think that movements like those surrounding Bernie and Corbyn are busyboxes for progressives and don’t do anything effective. Can’t wait for AOC’s abortive run in a decade. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 9, 2020 20:12
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shrike82 posted:I think that movements like those surrounding Bernie and Corbyn are busyboxes for progressives and don’t do anything effective. Can’t wait for AOC’s abortive run in a decade. Again, what the gently caress are you talking about?
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Aug 9, 2020 20:13
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Somfin posted:Again, what the gently caress are you talking about? He looks to me like an obvious troll.
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Aug 9, 2020 20:16
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shrike82 posted:https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1292320728541474817?s=20 Bernie himself is a pretty reasonable person
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Aug 9, 2020 20:28
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The fun thing about the Dem apologists (I'm talking more the pundit class than say people on here) chanting "We can push Biden left," is, if the campaign is invested in winning through Republican switchover with no help from the left... what does that mean for the down ballot? We're supposed to believe all these suburbanites will vote Dem for their reps and not just for the presidency? So when Biden doesn't have a Congress that's pushing him left... who's pushing him left? Will he even do anything other than govern as a Republican?
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Aug 9, 2020 20:52
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AARP LARPer posted:I still cannot wrap my mind around the fact that Kasich is speaking at the convention. Not so much that he’d do it, but that the DNC is up for it. Holy poo poo. One (1) nevertrumper isn't crazytown, Kasich isn't going to impact the party's direction, so I don't really care about that. but this roster of "normal people not politicians" they've been talking about better have a hearty helping of progressives Probably Magic posted:The fun thing about the Dem apologists (I'm talking more the pundit class than say people on here) chanting "We can push Biden left," is, if the campaign is invested in winning through Republican switchover with no help from the left... what does that mean for the down ballot? We're supposed to believe all these suburbanites will vote Dem for their reps and not just for the presidency? So when Biden doesn't have a Congress that's pushing him left... who's pushing him left? Will he even do anything other than govern as a Republican? i mean, they did in 2018, leading to a strengthening of the centrist faction in the House
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Aug 9, 2020 21:06
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GreyjoyBastard posted:One (1) nevertrumper isn't crazytown, Kasich isn't going to impact the party's direction, so I don't really care about that. "Normal people" just reads as "consultants and lobbyists" to me, but maybe they'll surprise me and have some actual humans on the call instead of a bunch of corporate-owned lizardmen. Probably not, but they might!
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Aug 9, 2020 21:13
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GreyjoyBastard posted:i mean, they did in 2018, leading to a strengthening of the centrist faction in the House Midterm voters aren't the same as regular voters though, and the campaigning from the Biden campaign is notably on the right ("Let's gently caress Venezuela") compared to the mid-term messaging ("We have to save Obamacare" when there appeared to be immediate efforts and votes against it). Like, was the Lincoln Project part of the mid-term effort? And sure, this was before the coronavirus, but it was also before the riots and New York trying to shut the NRA down, I wouldn't count on the same demographics being invested in this vote compared to that one.
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Aug 9, 2020 21:22
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GreyjoyBastard posted:One (1) nevertrumper isn't crazytown, Kasich isn't going to impact the party's direction, so I don't really care about that. but 2018 was just a self fulfilling thing. The establishment dems said nobody would support a radical candidate for congress so they packed the race with lovely 'I spent 5 years blowing up Muslims and that means I can stand up to Trump (and keep you from getting healthcare)' ghouls who won because the election was a general referendum on Trump. It's just like the Virginia poo poo, they ignore the actual leftists that won when they talk about it, focus on 'well this democrat won with centrist plans in fuckin CIA Acres suburb so that's proof that's what the whole party needs to be'
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Aug 9, 2020 21:30
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It's almost like the people in charge have an agenda to deny any influence to the left
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Aug 9, 2020 21:30
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Somfin posted:Again, what the gently caress are you talking about? check his post history, he's a troll who switches between a MIGF style smug lanyard moron, and a smarmy member of the BernieBro dirtbag left depending on what thread he's in in order to antagonize people
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Aug 9, 2020 21:44
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GreyjoyBastard posted:One (1) nevertrumper isn't crazytown, Kasich isn't going to impact the party's direction, so I don't really care about that. How would you feel if they invited Tucker Carlson (or someone else who is essentially a "gently caress you" to many people) to speak? Would you think that this implies something about the opinions they think are acceptable? Kasich's inclusion is indicative of an attitude towards Republican policies (namely that they're not really opposed to them, as long as they aren't being done by someone like Trump). The whole problem is the fact that the Democratic Party thinks that elevating and normalizing terrible people is worth the mere possibility of maybe gaining some suburban white voters. That sort of thing isn't harmless. GreyjoyBastard posted:i mean, they did in 2018, leading to a strengthening of the centrist faction in the House If Biden wins it's likely that it will translate to downballot gains in this election, but it's even more likely that there will be huge losses in 2022 onward.
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Aug 9, 2020 21:44
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GreyjoyBastard posted:One (1) nevertrumper isn't crazytown... My dude, Kasich, a Republican from Lehman Brothers will be sharing a stage at the loving convention with two Democrats he was running against in 2016. If that doesn’t strike you as loving weird optics, I don’t know.
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Aug 9, 2020 21:47
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It's not crazy to have Kasich hang out and talk up unity since that's what the squishy middle of the country wants. Leftist ideas are popular in most circles, but leftist ideology isn't popular at all. The majority of people want to ignore politics except for big games (like the presidential election) and have it not impact them at all at any other point in time. The reason conventional wisdom says "don't talk about politics or religion" is because culturally we have a norm that politics can only ever divide us if we talk about it. Cowardly poo poo, sure, but popular! And that's the democrat mainstream. Let's be popular however we can. Please vote for us. If you vote for us I promise we'll never bother you again. Pretty please? We're not the target audience for what they're selling.
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Aug 9, 2020 21:55
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GreyjoyBastard posted:One (1) nevertrumper isn't crazytown, Kasich isn't going to impact the party's direction, so I don't really care about that. One (1) prior potential leader of the most powerful white supremacist, anti-trans, anti-woman organization in the country actually is a very big deal.
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Aug 9, 2020 22:31
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GreyjoyBastard posted:One (1) nevertrumper isn't crazytown, Kasich isn't going to impact the party's direction, so I don't really care about that. hey greyjoybastard how do you as a human being feel about your party celebrating someone so anti-abortion he set a national standard for it, and who spent his entire career violently crushing the poor and minorities in his state? Not loving 'optics' or 'politics' but how does it make you feel for an absolute ghoul like that to get center stage because he sometimes says 'trump bad' while supporting his agenda totally
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Aug 9, 2020 22:54
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shrike82 posted:https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1292320728541474817?s=20 Sanders has been in Congress for 30 years, and has been endorsed by the Democratic party for most of that time. When the Democrats controlled the Senate, he was the head of the Veterans Affairs Committee, and he's now the ranking member of the Budget Committee. He and Schumer have cohosted rallies for the ACA together They cowrote an editorial arguing that against stock buybacks, and they're personal friends. In his voting record, he almost always votes the Democratic Party position. Sanders is a lot of stuff, but he's never been antiestablishment.
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Aug 9, 2020 23:14
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Listen, Kasich may not really consider women to be people, but [bunch of words about bipartisanship and coming together, leaving unsaid what anyone would be coming together with homophobic and misogynistic bigots to accomplish].
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Aug 9, 2020 23:15
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Listen, Kasich may not really consider women to be people, but [bunch of words about bipartisanship and coming together, leaving unsaid what anyone would be coming together with homophobic and misogynistic bigots to accomplish]. yeah. fewer people are rich and getting richer and hanging out in their little niche, while the rest of the country is poor and getting poorer. the democratic machine has only one way to go to generate their wealth anymore so next time we'll see a trump son or GWB or loving glenn beck. one day it will be a group of rich republicans fighting the other group of rich republicans while everyone else is too poor to pay amazon to mail their votes. edit: hey everyone remember when obama said he was a republican? 
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Aug 9, 2020 23:39
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I think the bigger indicator is Kasich is going to be there but AOC isn't because assholes like Ed Rendell "BUH WE DON'T HAVE OUR CENTRIST FRESHMAN CONGRESS PEOPLE THERE, SO IT WOULDN'T BE FAIR," because God forbid we pay attention to the national mood.
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Aug 9, 2020 23:47
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Probably Magic posted:I think the bigger indicator is Kasich is going to be there but AOC isn't because assholes like Ed Rendell "BUH WE DON'T HAVE OUR CENTRIST FRESHMAN CONGRESS PEOPLE THERE, SO IT WOULDN'T BE FAIR," because God forbid we pay attention to the national mood. I don't think there's been any actual decision about AOC speaking yet, has there? Ed Rendell just told Politico he didn't like the idea. But there hasn't been a complete speaker list released yet.
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Aug 10, 2020 00:53
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JT Jag posted:He's tired, and is trying to get whatever progressive gains he can manage until a new standard bearer for the movement is ready. The incremental gains immediately curbstomped by the rest of the party rhetorically and legislatively. The only incrementalism Bernie is running interference for is the increasingly right-wing corporatism the Democrats have had wet dreams about for decades. Not surprised he's going up there with Kasich though, he already knows a thing or two about gaslighting women.
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Aug 10, 2020 02:07
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Office Pig posted:Not surprised he's going up there with Kasich though, he already knows a thing or two about gaslighting women.
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Aug 10, 2020 02:17
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I know that AOC won't be allowed anywhere near the democratic convention, but does anyone happen to know when Jeb Bush or Mitt Romney are slated to speak?
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Aug 10, 2020 03:46
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GreyjoyBastard posted:One (1) nevertrumper isn't crazytown, Kasich isn't going to impact the party's direction, so I don't really care about that. Actually coming back to this with of fresh pair of eyes, this makes sense if you already accept that the Democrats in their current form are an anti-trans, anti-women, and white supremacist organization. So, yeah I guess I agree with this.
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Aug 10, 2020 04:19
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Ershalim posted:It's not crazy to have Kasich hang out and talk up unity since that's what the squishy middle of the country wants. Lol. Edit: The middle does not exist and has not existed for a long time. It's a myth perpretated by the media and lanyards to convicne people that shifting to the right isn't dumb.
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Aug 10, 2020 04:45
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MonsieurChoc posted:Lol. There's also a small industry of statisticians who desperately search for justifications for why nominating moderates is just ~effective politics~  Oops this model can't even describe a situation as simple as a person being equally satisfied by spending a transportation budget public/private/divested 70/20/10 or 5/95/0 , but relatively inconvenienced with 25/70/5 because that would no longer be concave. Oh well, might as well keep assuming that people who vote for the heavily subsidized private instead of the inadequately increased public subsidies would have no reason to vote for a robust public transportation option with money to give up for other expenses 
Ruzihm fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Aug 10, 2020 |
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Aug 10, 2020 05:28
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MonsieurChoc posted:Lol. i don't know if you mean "liberalism might as well just be on the right at this point," but that's what i'm assuming and that's why i'm agreeing that there is no middle.
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Aug 10, 2020 05:35
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Ruzihm posted:There's also a small industry of statisticians who desperately search for justifications for why nominating moderates is just ~effective politics~ This stuff is interesting because it's difficult to understand how anyone who isn't a complete layperson could come up with this reasoning and not immediately realize that's it's complete nonsense. This whole sub-field basically exists to lend a veneer of credibility/"science-ness" to ideological positions, but it's still amazing how anyone with even the slightest knowledge related to math/science could end up taking it seriously.
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Aug 10, 2020 06:09
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MonsieurChoc posted:Lol. To the extent that unity is the goal, sure. But like I said in the same post you quoted: most people don't want to think about politics at all. They support the status quo because the only thing they want is not to be bothered. That's what I mean by "squishy middle" -- not like the weird political centrist elemental class that gets to write every article.
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Aug 10, 2020 07:02
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Ershalim posted:To the extent that unity is the goal, sure. But like I said in the same post you quoted: most people don't want to think about politics at all. They support the status quo because the only thing they want is not to be bothered. That's what I mean by "squishy middle" -- not like the weird political centrist elemental class that gets to write every article. much, much, different then being impressed by bipartisianship or John loving Kasich giving a soppy unity speech.
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Aug 10, 2020 07:21
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Famethrowa posted:much, much, different then being impressed by bipartisianship or John loving Kasich giving a soppy unity speech. I could be wrong about this or jumping too many points ahead in the way I'm thinking about this so it's hard to follow, but my understanding is that the democratic establishment attempts to rule via committee at all times, and so they focus test everything. So the flow I'm going with is that the polls show people don't like eternal gridlock or open divisiveness of the candidates, and the establishment is aware of that. So in order to signal to the people that they will do what they can not to be divisive, Biden openly says "nothing will significantly change" and "we'll go back to normal," and the democrats make public moves to "reasonable seeming" republicans like Kasich. tl;dr: I think the reason Pelosi et al. suck so much from our perspective is because the data she's working with shows her the country likes it when she doesn't do anything, but likes it even more when she says nice things about her opponent. Remember in the debate how much people praised Hilary for saying nice things about the orange poo poo heap's children? This is just that, but like, for the whole party.
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Aug 10, 2020 07:38
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https://dcist.com/story/20/08/06/fairfax-county-absentee-ballot-applications-virginia-department-of-elections/quote:Fairfax County election officials rushed to reassure voters Thursday after a D.C. non-profit organization mailed residents nearly half a million absentee ballot applications with the wrong return address on them. Fairfax County is one of the few reliably blue parts of Virginia.
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Aug 10, 2020 17:07
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I'm not saying the Democrats might be throwing the election, but if they were, it'd be impossible to tell.
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Aug 10, 2020 17:24
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I'm not saying the Democrats might be throwing the election, but if they were, it'd be impossible to tell. <citation needed>
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Aug 10, 2020 18:03
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:<citation needed> If we needed a citation for every hot take in this thread then there would be no hot takes. And who wants to read a thread with no hot takes?
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Aug 10, 2020 18:08
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:<citation needed> You're asking for a citation on someone sharing the subjective impression that they're getting from current events.
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Aug 10, 2020 18:15
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:<citation needed> Yeah, you're right, it's actually possible to tell when they are throwing elections. One way to tell is if a democratic leader purposely helps an incumbent republican beat a democrat. Good thing nobody relevant has done that though. oh wait https://twitter.com/NomikiKonst/status/1236315521584443394 Ruzihm fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Aug 10, 2020 |
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Aug 10, 2020 18:22
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I never get tired of hearing the excuses for this
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Aug 10, 2020 18:25
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Ruzihm posted:Yeah, you're right, it's actually possible to tell when they are throwing elections. Don't worry, I'm sure you'll get to how this is relevant in 2020 and in this situation any day now...
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Aug 10, 2020 18:35
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