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mobby_6kl posted:Some interesting if unsurprising takes on the situation Whole twitter account is full of comedy gold: https://twitter.com/JoshuaYJackson/status/1292793538250514432 I mean poor guy probably think that even china is socialist / communist country.
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Aug 10, 2020 20:57
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https://twitter.com/2020Belarus/status/1292913787876659200
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Aug 10, 2020 21:06
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HorseBodyInspector posted:Whole twitter account is full of comedy gold: There is a kernel of truth in all that. Even Tsepkalo who now has to hide from Lukashenko abroad, acknowledges that the first 10-15 years or so of his reign were really good for the economy (you'll have to ignore alleged political killings, of course), and that's partly why the traditional opposition always failed to attract any real popular support. It genuinely helped struggling collective farms, for example, that they were forced on banks and big companies as subsidiaries, but at certain point this type of economic dependency just becomes unsustainable. So while there are basically no oligarchs in Belarus, now the country is facing unprecedented levels of hidden unemployment, almost no growth in real income and a plethora of issues that come from that. What tankies also miss in their 'analysis' is that none of Lukashenko's main opponents in this election were laissez-faire neoliberals who promised to sell everything to the highest bidder. People specifically don't want that, but they don't want Lukashenko either.
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Aug 10, 2020 21:16
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Paladinus posted:There is a kernel of truth in all that. Even Tsepkalo who now has to hide from Lukashenko abroad, acknowledges that the first 10-15 years or so of his reign were really good for the economy (you'll have to ignore alleged political killings, of course), and that's partly why the traditional opposition always failed to attract any real popular support. It genuinely helped struggling collective farms, for example, that they were forced on banks and big companies as subsidiaries, but at certain point this type of economic dependency just becomes unsustainable. So while there are basically no oligarchs in Belarus, now the country is facing unprecedented levels of hidden unemployment, almost no growth in real income and a plethora of issues that come from that. What tankies also miss in their 'analysis' is that none of Lukashenko's main opponents in this election were laissez-faire neoliberals who promised to sell everything to the highest bidder. People specifically don't want that, but they don't want Lukashenko either. I think much of economy relative success was due Russia dumping prices on oil/gas for Belarus. But honestly my knowledge is probably outdated, and/or incomplete. What is hilarious ( or infuriating ) is that once people like him convince themself that Lukashensko ( or other rear end in a top hat ) is socialist, they are looking on Lukashenko, like republicans are looking on Saudi King Salman. And local population is of course dumb and paid by "nefarious entity" to protest. edit:I am open to recommendation of some good books about post Soviet Union Belarus. HorseBodyInspector fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Aug 10, 2020 |
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Aug 10, 2020 21:55
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First confirmed death of the day in Minsk on the protester side. Many protester in cars, so some videos around with
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Aug 10, 2020 22:10
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HorseBodyInspector posted:I think much of economy relative success was due Russia dumping prices on oil/gas for Belarus. Good gas and oil prices were definitely a factor, but Lukashenko kind of had hand in that with how successfully he navigated relationship with Russia. And again, he's failing on that front now, too. You could probably call Lukashenko a socialist in the sense that Brezhnev's USSR was a socialist state. He has preserved undeniably good things like socialised healthcare, free higher education, affordable housing, etc., and honestly, Belarus is probably more socialist economically speaking than China. It just it shouldn't excuse literally everything he's done and is still doing apart from that.
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Aug 10, 2020 22:12
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Paladinus posted:Good gas and oil prices were definitely a factor, but Lukashenko kind of had hand in that with how successfully he navigated relationship with Russia. And again, he's failing on that front now, too. Well many of these things were preserved in Czechia, Slovakia (and probably Poland too) and I do not see them calling Babis/Matovic/Duda socialists heroes. So it still doesn't make sense to me. (affordable housing is one thing I am willing Lukashenko point, if it is not affordable housing "for friends")
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Aug 10, 2020 22:35
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Even Ukraine has free healthcare, education, government pensions, child and housing subsidies etc. Not that it's doing much good though.
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Aug 10, 2020 22:49
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Video now online of a whole unit of russian anti-riot police in Minsk downtown. https://twitter.com/poleschukg/status/1292939698374148096?s=21 Mokotow fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Aug 10, 2020 |
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Aug 10, 2020 22:50
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Mokotow posted:Video now online of a whole unit of russian anti-riot police in Minsk downtown. Do we actually know if these are Russian anti riot police?
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Aug 10, 2020 23:07
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Twitter tells me Paige does not exist
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Aug 10, 2020 23:18
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Guys Ive found evidence the election was not tampered with As you can see, Lukashenko has had the same polling numbers every election since 94.
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Aug 10, 2020 23:18
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Charliegrs posted:Do we actually know if these are Russian anti riot police? Not 100% - people filming from the car as they drive through a crowd of ant riot police remark how the uniforms have russian markings. They also look different than the riot police I’ve been seeing on video all day. https://twitter.com/et_fullhd/status/1292940335308562432?s=21 Mokotow fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Aug 10, 2020 |
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Aug 10, 2020 23:23
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The bus driver from a few posts up is now reported as deceased, and there’s another fatality.
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Aug 10, 2020 23:27
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This tweet claims that they aren’t russian after all, and that it’s a newly formed special forces unit. https://twitter.com/cwtaml/status/1292943649907585024?s=21
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Aug 10, 2020 23:32
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Looks like things are wrapping up for the night. Barricades went up for the first time today, but they’re no match for the anti riot trucks. https://twitter.com/novosyolov/status/1292953264460374024?s=21
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Aug 10, 2020 23:40
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Nitrox posted:Twitter tells me Paige does not exist wait, is this the D&D Eastern Europe thread or have i teleported to the TVIV The Americans thread? Charliegrs posted:Do we actually know if these are Russian anti riot police? Of course not. As always: 
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Aug 10, 2020 23:48
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So things seem to be escalating in Minsk. https://twitter.com/Jake_Hanrahan/status/1292956984636067840
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Aug 11, 2020 00:49
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https://twitter.com/Jake_Hanrahan/status/1292965735938109440
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Aug 11, 2020 00:51
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https://twitter.com/franakviacorka/status/1292974378288910339 Looks like this is where the molotovs were, you can see them burning in front of a barricade in one photo.
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Aug 11, 2020 01:07
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Why the sad face? gently caress those cops
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Aug 11, 2020 01:16
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Charliegrs posted:Why the sad face? gently caress those cops absolutely ACAB but was hoping it wouldn't come to this.
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Aug 11, 2020 01:19
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:absolutely ACAB but was hoping it wouldn't come to this. yeah. my genuin hope would be a romania type situation where Lukashenko tries to save himself and tries to flee and then gets caught and deposed of, either through exile or something more permanent.
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Aug 11, 2020 02:02
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Mokotow posted:Where are you seeing this, sounds like Wypok. Konfederacja facebook group. So, yeah, kinda the same headspace lol.
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Aug 11, 2020 06:35
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Tikhanovskaya is out of the country. https://twitter.com/belamova/status/1293070338985807872 https://twitter.com/LinkeviciusL/status/1293055918586953730
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Aug 11, 2020 08:02
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https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1293076863166885888 Cops ran out of cells and started to lay people out in the yard of one of the police stations Slav Drivers: gently caress Around and Find Out cant find a confirmation for that but sounds like a warcrime https://twitter.com/Belsat_Eng/status/1292931504465678345 fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Aug 11, 2020 |
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Aug 11, 2020 09:00
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CMYK BLYAT! posted:Tikhanovskaya is out of the country. https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1293099260364435456 Looks like Lukshenko managed to find way how to force her to leave Belarus.
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Aug 11, 2020 10:02
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It gets worse https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1293127604330016769
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Aug 11, 2020 11:42
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The couch looks familiar... Edit: While being more serious: video indeed looks very odd. Even in the one where she tries to explain what and why she did (leaving for Lithuania), she looks kind of scared. Quite the difference from previous very bold statements. VoltairePunk fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Aug 11, 2020 |
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Aug 11, 2020 11:53
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I’ve rebelled against the government yesterday. Almost all protesters are millennials and zoomers. Ukraine had a similar dynamic (older generations supported the status quo and good relations with Russia while younger people overwhelmingly identified with long-repressed national culture).
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Aug 11, 2020 11:57
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Is Sekenr back? They haven’t posted since yesterday evening here, and they’ve been participating in the protest. 
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Aug 11, 2020 12:20
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If she's out of the country that means it's over, right?
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Aug 11, 2020 12:34
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:If she's out of the country that means it's over, right? I can't see how that is, either the protests succeed to the point that she can come back, or they won't.
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Aug 11, 2020 12:42
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Mokotow posted:Is Sekenr back? They haven’t posted since yesterday evening here, and they’ve been participating in the protest. I'm fine, thanks for your concern  Just have nothing else to post that others didn't and internet is lovely all day.
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Aug 11, 2020 12:42
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Sekenr posted:I'm fine, thanks for your concern The internet has been lovely every day since at least 1993. (Good to hear you're ok!)
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Aug 11, 2020 15:28
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She wasn't instrumental to the protests in any way. She didn't call for them, she didn't lead or coordinate them. What her de-facto deportation means is that there is no-one who can even claim to be the leader, and there is no opportunity for dialogue, so the only path right now, and it's scary beyond belief, is escalation of street violence and Lukashenko is the one to blame for it.
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Aug 11, 2020 15:31
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Paladinus posted:She wasn't instrumental to the protests in any way. She didn't call for them, she didn't lead or coordinate them. What her de-facto deportation means is that there is no-one who can even claim to be the leader, and there is no opportunity for dialogue, so the only path right now, and it's scary beyond belief, is escalation of street violence and Lukashenko is the one to blame for it. From her video, obviously taken under duress, it seems they were threatening her children.
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Aug 11, 2020 15:32
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How do the tankies handle hereditary successions like North Korea? I'm sure once they learn more about Lukashenka, his young almost adult son, and the Kim like grooming of him to be the next leader there will be denials and when it does happen, unwavering support of the correct leader to lead Belarus. It's also ironic that the one guy is decrying EU infiltration of Belarus when Belarus has been an intermediary, way around Russia sanctions between the EU and Russia. Lukashenka has been playing both sides for a while although Russia is pretty firmly dominant in terms of relations regardless of what happens. If the EU attempted or supported a coup of the government, Russia would just come in and install their own or incorporate Belarus into Russia in a far more legal and acceptable fashion than the Russian adventure into Ukraine. There would be international protests but at the end of the day, they're already a part of Belarus in a fashion far greater than I think any other former Soviet Republic. Paladinus posted:She wasn't instrumental to the protests in any way. She didn't call for them, she didn't lead or coordinate them. What her de-facto deportation means is that there is no-one who can even claim to be the leader, and there is no opportunity for dialogue, so the only path right now, and it's scary beyond belief, is escalation of street violence and Lukashenko is the one to blame for it. Yeah, this seems like it's been a long time coming due to the conditions in Belarus.
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Aug 11, 2020 17:34
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I missed that Tsikhanouskaya's husband is incarcerated in Belarus https://twitter.com/simonostrovsky/status/1293162655407112194?s=21
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Aug 11, 2020 17:53
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Yeah the authorities are definitely threatening her with something. Probably the life of family members.
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Aug 11, 2020 18:10
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