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Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I feel like SMB3 style level design works well for Super Mario Maker, mind. I like using it for short-and-sweet levels.

It's kind of unusual among the classic Mario games for level length. SMB1 levels tended to be longer, SMB2 even moreso (yes, I'm aware it wasn't originally a Mario game) and SMW varied but tended to take advantage of its newly introduced checkpoints. Quite possibly they went for shorter level design both to fit more levels onto a NES cartridge and because they didn't have checkpoints yet.


Remember these games are made for literal children

i think the real audience was grown men all along. they planned for this.

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Dewgy
Nov 10, 2005

~🚚special delivery~📦

Shibawanko posted:

the fact that the snes cd was never released was a blessing in disguise because 16 bit cd rom systems added virtually nothing and resulted in a lot of bad games. secret of mana is probably better off with most of its content cut because lets be honest it was probably going to be anime cutscenes and stuff

The Sega CD was worth it for the BIOS music.

https://youtu.be/Q7UxwtkNSjI

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

i am a dweebus with really bad taste so it should be right up my alley but that new avengers game looks absolutely joyless to me

Barudak
May 7, 2007

I like Dauntless significantly more than Monster Hunter World and I have no idea why. Scientists remain baffled, but their hoping my autopsy can shed more light on the matter.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
If you die on the ship levels and even have to see them move, ya stink at a kids game. If you get pinned between the side-scroll wall and level geometry, you might just be a kid.

Flutes can be used to get you to not-world 8, so you could put it down and come back to not-8 (or just play with save-states like it's the year 2020.)

I do agree there were too many parts where you slowly scroll in clouds collecting useless coins. You don't need lives from coins, you can't buy anything with coins, AFAIK the only point to coins was to get the secret stuff to trigger by having very specific coin amounts on certain stages. Coins in Mario games are almost always useless though, I think kids just like collecting for their own sake though. It's probably good coins are usually useless, the alternative is a situation like Mario Odyssey where coins do have a use, but you need heaps of them, so you end up googling "fastest way to make hella coins mario odyssey" before realizing maybe you don't have to play this anymore.

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

i'm like 99.9999% sure checkpoints have been in mario since smb 1 so i have no idea what that other poster was talking about

Punkinhead
Apr 2, 2015

Yeah there are checkpoints for every level except for those in world 8 and castles.

The checkpoints are invisible so they're easy to forget about.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
One of the New Super Mario Bros games was basically built around being a coin collecting time attack, though the gimmick doesn't seem to have taken off. They ran that series into the ground fast.

EA Sports
Feb 10, 2007

by Azathoth
just wanted to say in regards to the smb3 having short and sweet levels, the 3ds mario 3dland game is the only game i found that replicated that perfect pacing. i remember even not liking smworld asmuch back in the day cause they never hit the same pacing with the levels.

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

EA Sports posted:

just wanted to say in regards to the smb3 having short and sweet levels, the 3ds mario 3dland game is the only game i found that replicated that perfect pacing. i remember even not liking smworld asmuch back in the day cause they never hit the same pacing with the levels.

super mario 3d land was really, really good and i want a remake of 3d world (the wii u one) that includes the 3d land levels on the switch

it would be close to the perfect mario game

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
Kinda annoying that the NSMB series gave people ammo for the 'ten zillion interchangeable mario games' bullshit because for one, Mario games have been almost singlehandedly keeping the 3D platformer genre alive, and Galaxy and Odyssey are legitimate experiences.

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

Shibawanko posted:

the fact that the snes cd was never released was a blessing in disguise because 16 bit cd rom systems added virtually nothing and resulted in a lot of bad games. secret of mana is probably better off with most of its content cut because lets be honest it was probably going to be anime cutscenes and stuff

the only cut content from secret of mana was Solar

e: alternatively we mightve had anime cutscenes except like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wM1hvu6IM4

Fur20 fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Aug 10, 2020

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

i think my iso rips of galaxy and galaxy 2 were lost in a HDD crash and i'm too lazy to rip them again (or, god forbid, try to find a working wii remote to play it on actual hardware) :(



...actually wait i might have a fuckin' wii u of all things set up somewhere

Vakal
May 11, 2008

Walrus Pete posted:

edit: my unpopular opinion is that no action-rpg has yet been better than Diablo 1

Look at this loving guy that has never played Nox.

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

food court bailiff posted:

i'm like 99.9999% sure checkpoints have been in mario since smb 1 so i have no idea what that other poster was talking about

no, 3 definitely doesn't have them

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Kinda annoying that the NSMB series gave people ammo for the 'ten zillion interchangeable mario games' bullshit because for one, Mario games have been almost singlehandedly keeping the 3D platformer genre alive, and Galaxy and Odyssey are legitimate experiences.

i think a single nsmb game would have been fine or even welcomed but the sheer amount of them and the visual design made them so boring

silence_kit
Jul 14, 2011

by the sex ghost

Vakal posted:

Look at this loving guy that has never played Nox.

Nox was so good. I never encounter people on the internet talking about that game. I’ve never played any of the Diablo games though, so I don’t know how to compare it with Diablo.

silence_kit fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Aug 10, 2020

Taima
Dec 31, 2006

tfw you're peeing next to someone in the lineup and they don't know

Caesar Saladin posted:

Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart will bet he next game with impressive graphics, it is the only one justifying a new console.

This was from forever ago but I see this a lot and don't get it at all.

If the graphics were the same but 60 fps that would already be worth it. 30 fps loving sucks.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Shibawanko posted:

i was harsh on mario 3 earlier in here so i decided to play it again to see if im wrong, im doing a full playthrough without using flutes on a real cart on my famicom

the game is good of course but it definitely has way more annoyances than it should have. one thing i didnt really notice that much before is how the collision detection is kind of off. there are moments where you feel like you should have landed on an enemy but you dont, or you do but mario reacts strangely and gains no momentum from jumping on something where you'd expect him to (this seems to happen with the cannonballs in the ship stages). i hate the ship stages and especially how the ship flies away if you die, so you have to pointlessly run around the map to find it again

i already mentioned this before but the game has far too many autoscrolling stages and particularly unforgivable is how it sometimes corners you into unwinnable paths. at some point in the world 3 ship stage theres a bit where you get to choose two apparently viable paths forward, but if you use the bottom one the stage scrolls up so you die unless you get out really fast, which happens without warning. you just have to know not to take that path or try again

a lot of the stages also feel too short, like they just cut up a single stage into two bits and scattered them around the map, as a result you spend more time on the map doing nothing. smw fixed this by making levels a lot bigger but giving you a halfway point too. in fact, smw fixed most of the issues with smb3 which probably means that the developers were aware of the problems. smw does have maze levels too for example, but theyre far less frustrating since theres usually some kind of logic to how they work, where in smb3 the maze is often like "pick the correct door or you lose"

i still really dont like the clouds bonus stage or just how much the game makes you jump at coins. theres a lot of p-block bits where you jump on the block, mindlessly collect some coins and go on. whats the point? coins in smw and smb1 have a function: they indicate the correct path for mario to jump along, guiding you through the level, or occasionally putting you in risk-reward situations where you could collect some coins but you have to dodge something else at the same time. smb3 does this too but too often its just "yo collect this ocean of coins please" and it doesnt really add to the game, similar to the bonus stages in donkey kong country where you are just hoovering up golden statues

game's also just too long. im midway through world 4 and paused and turned off my tv. if this was smb1 i'd be almost done by now but actually playing through smb3 from start to finish without flutes is kind of a chore and seems like it would be annoying for a kid to have to turn off their nintendo before being able to finish the game. the alternative to this is to do a flute run and go straight to world 8 but world 8 suuuuucks so this is also a miserable way to play the game

please pull forward to the pickup window

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

dont know what that means. i live in a country with real restaurants

Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


If anything I like Mario 3 more than World because 3 doesn't feel like it's babying me through the whole time. I mean NES games are harder in general just because the coin op design mentality hadn't completely faded, but still.

SIDS Vicious
Jan 1, 1970


Shibawanko posted:

dont know what that means. i live in a country with real restaurants

lol you live in such a poor country they don't even have fast food yet

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

Sodomy Hussein posted:

If anything I like Mario 3 more than World because 3 doesn't feel like it's babying me through the whole time. I mean NES games are harder in general just because the coin op design mentality hadn't completely faded, but still.

neither of them are hard but world at least has the challenge stages

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

mario’s sprites in world are fuckin hideous

Ruffian Price
Sep 17, 2016

Taima posted:

This was from forever ago but I see this a lot and don't get it at all.

If the graphics were the same but 60 fps that would already be worth it. 30 fps loving sucks.
It's fun seeing people talking about the proper screen investment for next gen when it's doubtful we'll even see stable 1080p60 for all first party games

SIDS Vicious
Jan 1, 1970


the best super Mario game is the Mario themed Same Game on Super Famicom

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs 🎤of siren 🧜🏻‍♀️songs
To oohs😮 to ahhs😱 to 👏big👏applause👏
With all of my 😡anger I scream🤬 and shout📢
🇺🇸America🦅, I love you 🥰but you're freaking 💦me 😳out
Biscuit Hider

Taima posted:

This was from forever ago but I see this a lot and don't get it at all.

If the graphics were the same but 60 fps that would already be worth it. 30 fps loving sucks.

Looks too much like a soap opera

tango alpha delta
Sep 9, 2011

Ask me about my wealthy lifestyle and passive income! I love bragging about my wealth to my lessers! My opinions are more valid because I have more money than you! Stealing the fruits of the labor of the working class is okay, so long as you don't do it using crypto. More money = better than!

christmas boots posted:

Looks too much like a soap opera

Isn't it 120 Hz that looks too much like a soap opera?

Caesar Saladin
Aug 15, 2004

Taima posted:

This was from forever ago but I see this a lot and don't get it at all.

If the graphics were the same but 60 fps that would already be worth it. 30 fps loving sucks.

it has instant loading between completely separate environments with completely different assets you mook

30fps is fine nowadays unless you're a spergy pc gamer

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Dewgy
Nov 10, 2005

~🚚special delivery~📦

tango alpha delta posted:

Isn't it 120 Hz that looks too much like a soap opera?

It’s anything with artificial frame blending usually. Soaps were (about) 60fps but transmitted in a way that wasn’t designed for it. Most broadcasts at the time were ~30fps at 60 refreshes, with the image split from line to line into alternating pairs, which essentially blurred together on the TV and produced a higher quality image. (Interlacing.) Soaps had unique images for every refresh, leading to smooth video but very blurry image quality, and frames smearing into each other.

A TV with frame blending on has a very similar effect, where it looks smooth but at the same time wrong.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

Sid Vicious posted:

the best super Mario game is the Mario themed Same Game on Super Famicom

Somari is his True Form

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

food court bailiff posted:

mario’s sprites in world are fuckin hideous

i dont really like worlds graphics in general very much, like theres too many ugly gradients and pastel colors

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.

Shibawanko posted:

i dont really like worlds graphics in general very much, like theres too many ugly gradients and pastel colors

Do wonder what you'd think of the postgame version that turns it into Halloween.

Playing that as a kid is kinda wild, you start out in the tiny little island area then climb up on top of a massive hill and get a preview of the massive overworld. Not a lot of games even try to give you a sense of wonder like that.

Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Aug 11, 2020

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

Vakal posted:

Look at this loving guy that has never played Nox.

Nox is a loving treasure and I'm salty that it got buried under the Diablo2 hype, when it was clearly the better game.

Popoto
Oct 21, 2012

miaow
Nox’s multiplayer was a god drat blast to play.

Taima
Dec 31, 2006

tfw you're peeing next to someone in the lineup and they don't know

Caesar Saladin posted:

it has instant loading between completely separate environments with completely different assets you mook

30fps is fine nowadays unless you're a spergy pc gamer

I respectfully disagree friend, it actually sucks balls

Caesar Saladin
Aug 15, 2004

Taima posted:

I respectfully disagree friend, it actually sucks balls

go play an mmo or a moba or whatever you lameass pc gamers are playing nowadays

edit: thought i was in another thread at first

Caesar Saladin fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Aug 11, 2020

Stunt_enby
Feb 6, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
actually the human eye cant see past 24 fps

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
Actually only a moron would care about having double digit FPS I say cleverly as my Switch melts holes into my hands.

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Ruffian Price
Sep 17, 2016

Caesar Saladin posted:

it has instant loading
Have we seen the same demo? The initial "entering portal" animation is using a static view of the target area that gets jarringly replaced after being loaded in, it's shorter, but still just another version of Kratos looking at his feet

Of course, this doesn't matter if the game's good

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