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boar guy posted:good right now all CEOs (expect for the insane ones) work from home but students have to go to school same difference, right?  goddamnedtwisto posted:Surely air is forced through all face masks, otherwise you'd die? I thought the actual problem was that lycra and similar materials, which these tend to be made from, is at a bad sweet spot in terms of weave size where it both forces you to breathe more heavily but doesn't actually slow the exhaled droplets much, so you're actually spreading your diseases further than you would with no mask at all? in short: don't think of community masks as a filtration system, but as an airflow control system. community masks do gently caress all to filter your air output, but they stop the air stream from going a cool 2 meters forward from your mouth and just create a cloud of turbulence around your head and cause stuff to drop quicker you can test this super easy by taking a lighter, and blowing it out with a handkerchief wrapped tight around your lips, versus the handkerchief being held half an inch away from your lips (or like, trying to move a strip of paper by blowing against it) Mithaldu fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Aug 11, 2020 |
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Aug 11, 2020 20:26
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I hope the students relying on sports scholarships will be supported during this. Either way, it was the right call.
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Aug 11, 2020 20:28
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Iron Crowned posted:Now the chuds riot 
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Aug 11, 2020 20:42
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Surely air is forced through all face masks, otherwise you'd die? made a quick demo. note that the shown difference in beheavior is significant for the study, and reality, because the study measured which particles will be found in front of the mask, which can only happen if the airflow carries them there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BBJGvtJ2lk Mithaldu fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Aug 11, 2020 |
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Aug 11, 2020 20:44
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Mithaldu posted:right now all CEOs (expect for the insane ones) work from home Okay, I think I get you - a bit of quick experimenting with two of my neck tubes and a couple of masks I had lying about : Old dust mask (the type that looks like a duck's bill) - blowing as hard as I can, could feel a bit of air movement about 30cms away (using the highly scientific wet finger method), but normal breathing wasn't really noticeable at all unless I was basically touching the fabric. Single-layer neck tube - could feel air movement with just normal breathing at 15cms, blowing hard easily detectable at arm's length Double-layer neck tube (also considerably thicker material): blowing hard detectable at about 10cms, normal breathing at a couple of cms. Also counter-intuitvely pulling it tighter improved matters, but I think that's because it was my nose and chin making a bigger gap over my mouth. Thick lycra and carbon cycling mask (valved) - the valves have a cover over them that forces the air to turn 180 degrees - I could feel it easily at about 10cms but any further than that was my own shoulders so... maybe not as useless as I thought? Disposable paper mask (the type with a load of folds in it) - basically undetectable, either breathing or blowing, further away than 5 cms. However two very noticeable "jets" of air out of the sides that stretched a good 20-30 cms if I sighed (actually blowing didn't seem to cause it, so probably just a matter of the shape of it changing with my face). Winter balaclava (cotton/lycra with cotton panel over the mouth) - somehow worse than the neck tube, which is disappointing because I was looking for a reason to wear it. I also attempted a reverse solvent test by breathing on my cat while chewing menthol chewing gum (which makes him pull a funny face) but he got bored and went to go fight a bit of dust after the second test so my results lack rigour, but I'll say the neck tube *did* seem to prevent face-pulling while the dust mask doesn't. I've got a reusable cotton mask that's basically the same design as the paper one but without the folds kicking about somewhere, I'll try this test with that when I find it and I suppose just go back to having an uncomfortable nose and ears.
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Aug 11, 2020 21:06
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I also attempted a reverse solvent test by breathing on my cat while chewing menthol chewing gum (which makes him pull a funny face) but he got bored and went to go fight a bit of dust after the second test so my results lack rigour, but I'll say the neck tube *did* seem to prevent face-pulling while the dust mask doesn't.  some comments.the dust mask thing is fascinating, what exact type was it? sounds like an ffp1 equivalent, which basically just catch dust bunnies. the double neck tube tight result is probably related to the physical shape created, yeah. for the paper masks some people recommend crossing over the rubber strips to create a better seal on the sides, but ultimately air will go somewhere. and in case you didn't see, i made a little video above.  as for uncomfortable ears: Mithaldu posted:in my experience that happens because the mask is ill-fitted. try telling her to tie rubber bands to the mask and connect them behind her head with a paper clip or key ring, or safety pin or similar
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Aug 11, 2020 21:16
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Mithaldu posted:that's a hella lot of good science, and i appreciate the cat involvement I saw the video after doing all my science, thanks. The mask came with a sander I bought, it's got no identifying marks on it at all - the material feels sort of like polyester fleece (like the interior of a quilted jacket) but denser - of all the masks it leaves the biggest gap in front of the face and is the most comfortable to wear, but like you say it's designed to stop little bits of dust (and looks goofy as poo poo which is why I never wore it when I was sanding either - I've for a proper paint mask I use for that sort of thing which I didn't bother testing because I *know* the outlet valves are basically virus turbochargers). I know that trick at the back of the head, but it won't work for me cos I've got a big old melon and I guess masks are designed for non-Elephant-Man types.
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Aug 11, 2020 21:44
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Iron Crowned posted:Now the chuds riot Chuds here are the primary cause for this being outright canceled at this point. Seeing Pence, the Coronavirus Task Force Leader Chud calling on football to continue is an example of how loving dumb our administration is right now. While we are breaking day to day records and schools that are already closing down as you tweet makes for a really bad take. Colleges wont even be open to support anything, let alone a football team. Idiots. Philthy fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Aug 11, 2020 |
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Aug 11, 2020 22:11
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Back in the Early Times when masks were first starting to be talked about I remember people saying gaiters weren't ideal because to get them off you have to pull them over your mouth, nose, and eyes, increasing the chances for any cooties to get in you. This video pointed me to the pattern I've been using, I'm making mine out of 3 layers of quilting cotton, not the fancy medical grade stuff they have in the video. The video is a little long, but it's pretty interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZBbkn-g-vE Here's a link to the pattern with instructional videos! (I make the Prototype 2 style) https://anest.ufl.edu/clinical-divisions/mask-alternative/ I'd like to thank Trump and his supporters for making this mess last longer than it needs to so I was forced to sit in the car while my friend of 15 years went to his final vet appointment today. 
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Aug 11, 2020 22:45
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Man, my mask savers came and apparently my head is too fuckin fat for "one size fits all" 
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Aug 11, 2020 22:46
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Mithaldu posted:the gaiter in the study is fleece. is fleece knit? sorry, english isn't my first language, and i'm not familiar with cloth types indepth. Fleece is always knitted, yeah. Knits provide that nice stretchiness that you expect from a comfy gaiter, but knits make for bad mask material because of that stretchiness. Weaves are very inflexible by comparison, like denim. Pure denim is not very flexible, and usually elastic or spandex has to be incorporated into jeans to provide more flexibility.
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Aug 11, 2020 22:48
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Surely air is forced through all face masks, otherwise you'd die? I thought the actual problem was that lycra and similar materials, which these tend to be made from, is at a bad sweet spot in terms of weave size where it both forces you to breathe more heavily but doesn't actually slow the exhaled droplets much, so you're actually spreading your diseases further than you would with no mask at all? There's an issue where the material could act like a grating, turning heavy droplets into smaller ones that leave the mask. Smaller droplets experience less drag, so they travel further, which is bad. The material should ideally stop droplets altogether. Surgical masks leak tons of air out of the sides, but they catch droplets and generally reduce aerosol momentum by introducing turbulence, so they're still very effective
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Aug 11, 2020 23:01
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Squidder posted:I'd like to thank Trump and his supporters for making this mess last longer than it needs to so I was forced to sit in the car while my friend of 15 years went to his final vet appointment today. That really sucks and I'm sorry you weren't able to be there with your friend. Loss and grieving are really hosed up with all the isolation.
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Aug 11, 2020 23:08
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Squidder posted:I'd like to thank Trump and his supporters for making this mess last longer than it needs to so I was forced to sit in the car while my friend of 15 years went to his final vet appointment today.
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Aug 11, 2020 23:13
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Squidder posted:I'd like to thank Trump and his supporters for making this mess last longer than it needs to so I was forced to sit in the car while my friend of 15 years went to his final vet appointment today. I don't know what I'd do if that was the case. Being with my cat as she passed is still a powerfully emotional memory for me. I doubt there's a lot of people doing in-home euthanasia right now either. I'm so sorry your final moments with a good friend were taken from you.
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Aug 12, 2020 00:06
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quote:Squidder posted: I'm sorry for your loss. Your buddy looks a lot like one of my childhood cats.Appreciate the mask tips though, always looking for those. quote:Mithaldu posted: 
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Aug 12, 2020 00:11
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explosivo posted:Man, my mask savers came and apparently my head is too fuckin fat for "one size fits all" If you need something more custom I'm sure we could 3d print you some elongated ear savers. There's a whole bunch of 3d model files available and you can scale stuff in the slicer software on the 3d printer to stretch it in X, Y, or Z. https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=ear+saver&type=things&sort=relevant Let me know if you want me to make something for you, I have one printer that's pretty well tuned for PETG right now although the bed is 200x200mm (about 7 1/2 inches).
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Aug 12, 2020 00:46
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Aug 12, 2020 01:38
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Mithaldu posted:in short: don't think of community masks as a filtration system, but as an airflow control system. This needs to be posted every time mask discussion comes up.
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Aug 12, 2020 01:43
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goodbye pretty kittygoddamnedtwisto posted:Okay, I think I get you - a bit of quick experimenting with two of my neck tubes and a couple of masks I had lying about :  rad experiment.
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Aug 12, 2020 01:55
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Hell yeah, I just bought some reflective window film for $10, and applied it to my full-face respirator: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P9Q4ZP8/ Now I'm the fuckin' Cobra Commander 
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Aug 12, 2020 02:09
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Safe from COVID-19, in danger from the Geth - fair tradeoff, imo
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Aug 12, 2020 02:14
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Rexxed posted:If you need something more custom I'm sure we could 3d print you some elongated ear savers. Thanks! I think I'm just going to give these to my GF and deal for the time being but that's very nice of you to offer
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Aug 12, 2020 02:18
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Okay, I think I get you - a bit of quick experimenting with two of my neck tubes and a couple of masks I had lying about : What about putting a gator over a disposable mask? The disposable mask wouldn't need to be tight to prevent side leaks, because the gator will hold it in place. The crinkly disposable mask would prevent the gator from pressing directly against your lips, the extra layers making a small air-gap. explosivo posted:Man, my mask savers came and apparently my head is too fuckin fat for "one size fits all"
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Aug 12, 2020 02:21
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QuarkJets posted:There's an issue where the material could act like a grating, turning heavy droplets into smaller ones that leave the mask. Smaller droplets experience less drag, so they travel further, which is bad. The material should ideally stop droplets altogether. Surgical masks leak tons of air out of the sides, but they catch droplets and generally reduce aerosol momentum by introducing turbulence, so they're still very effective They experience less drag, but that is more than compensated by their lower momentum. Big bullets travel farther than little bullets. The problem comes when the droplet has ceased forward movement and starts falling out of the air. Now the higher drag/weight ratio of the little drops slows their fall. Little drops hang in the air longer and that’s how they present their danger.
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Aug 12, 2020 03:18
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How dumb is my alma mater for trying to do in-person instruction due to their claimed special ability to social distance? I can confirm that the place feels really empty because it was waaaay overbuilt in the early 1900s expecting a much larger student population that never happened. There are only two roads that reach into campus and they have a manned gatehouse to check in visitors, but alumnae and student Facebook groups are exploding in rage about this and I'm inclined to agree. e: then again, one of the points of outrage is that not wearing a mask in public will be an honor code violation so they might be coming at this from the other direction
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Aug 12, 2020 03:19
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Youth Decay posted:How dumb is my alma mater for trying to do in-person instruction due to their claimed special ability to social distance? I can confirm that the place feels really empty because it was waaaay overbuilt in the early 1900s expecting a much larger student population that never happened. There are only two roads that reach into campus and they have a manned gatehouse to check in visitors, but alumnae and student Facebook groups are exploding in rage about this and I'm inclined to agree. Extremely dumb
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Aug 12, 2020 03:25
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Youth Decay posted:How dumb is my alma mater for trying to do in-person instruction due to their claimed special ability to social distance? I can confirm that the place feels really empty because it was waaaay overbuilt in the early 1900s expecting a much larger student population that never happened. There are only two roads that reach into campus and they have a manned gatehouse to check in visitors, but alumnae and student Facebook groups are exploding in rage about this and I'm inclined to agree. How do I feel about this? I feel that the Dunning–Kruger effect is at play. Anyone who says “we can control it” cannot control it.
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Aug 12, 2020 03:26
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Platystemon posted:How do I feel about this? quote:And that is why you think that to build a place like this is simple.
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Aug 12, 2020 03:30
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Youth Decay posted:e: then again, one of the points of outrage is that not wearing a mask in public will be an honor code violation so they might be coming at this from the other direction Pennywise the Frown posted:This needs to be posted every time mask discussion comes up. Zero VGS posted:Hell yeah, I just bought some reflective window film for $10, and applied it to my full-face respirator: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P9Q4ZP8/ QuarkJets posted:Fleece is always knitted, yeah. Knits provide that nice stretchiness that you expect from a comfy gaiter, but knits make for bad mask material because of that stretchiness. Squidder posted:I'd like to thank Trump and his supporters for making this mess last longer than it needs to so I was forced to sit in the car while my friend of 15 years went to his final vet appointment today. also, thanks for the links yeah that sounds very much like ffp1, which, better than a cloth mask i guess, but def not protection also, did you try settling the rubbers below your ears? if your head is big putting it below the bump on the back might work
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Aug 12, 2020 03:36
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Mithaldu posted:If "in public" means "literally everywhere except for when you're alone in your dorm room"? Cool. If it means "lol outside, but not in the lecture hall"? They tryna kill ye, pal. No they mean everywhere. Half the people are mad they are doing in-person at all and the other half is mad they're being so strict about their protocols because MY FREEDOMS or whatever. It's hilarious to watch the two sides talking past each other.
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Aug 12, 2020 03:46
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Youth Decay posted:No they mean everywhere. Half the people are mad they are doing in-person at all and the other half is mad they're being so strict about their protocols because MY FREEDOMS or whatever. It's hilarious to watch the two sides talking past each other. tbh if the class rooms are well ventilated and everyone is forced at gunpoint to wear masks unless alone, then things are cool also that sounds fun as heck. i guess it's in private groups?
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Aug 12, 2020 03:49
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Mithaldu posted:gently caress, that's awesome, but i don't think it'd be legal here in germany Curious about that, you can't wear something like that in public streets? Or is it more that you can't wear it in stores?
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Aug 12, 2020 03:49
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Zero VGS posted:Curious about that, you can't wear something like that in public streets? Or is it more that you can't wear it in stores? turns out i'm wrong, it's only a crime in conjunction with protests. now the only thing stopping me from doing that is that i'd feel amazingly awkward.
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Aug 12, 2020 03:51
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Mithaldu posted:tbh if the class rooms are well ventilated and everyone is forced at gunpoint to wear masks unless alone, then things are cool So this is a college that almost closed in 2015 and got brought back to life with alumnae pressure and legal wrangling (turns out there was financial fuckery going on with the board of directors making the college look bankrupt when it wasn't so they could use the money for their golden parachutes...) and a bunch of facebook groups not affiliated with the college (because at the time the college was ran by said corrupt BoD) were created to organize the response and rebirth of the school. Since then those groups have become places for alumnae to complain about things that are Different Now or spread rumors and now to spread petitions to move to remote schooling and petitions to loosen up the restrictions. Which are spearheaded by different groups of students and parents. Not quite civil war down there yet but it sounds like it's getting contentious.
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Aug 12, 2020 04:05
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Mithaldu posted:turns out i'm wrong, it's only a crime in conjunction with protests. How could I feel awkward if I'm 100% anonymous though? It's considerably less dorky than the Guy Fawkes masks at least. I'm realizing this film has a ton of uses: - Adds scratch resistance to a pretty expensive respirator (somehow much better than the official 3M protectors which have a plastic-on-plastic rainbow effect which increases glare) - Reflecting most of the light should keep the inside of the mask cooler - Tints my view darker like sunglasses without losing any field-of-view, allegedly blocks UV
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Aug 12, 2020 04:11
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Mithaldu posted:That's awesome, but i don't think it'd be legal here in Germany. Here in the States it's legal only when used while carrying an automatic weapon and wearing Punisher gear.
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Aug 12, 2020 04:24
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i don't have pics yet but i got my masks from awesomeskull tonight and they are not even close to advertised. 100% Chinese scam. ill post what was shown to what was delivered asap. cancel your orders... they dont even send the inner face mask that is advertised, its all screen printed on loving nasty fake latex.
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Aug 12, 2020 06:25
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Can’t we just go on lockdown for a few more weeks? This whole thing is just stupid and we can do better.
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Aug 12, 2020 06:28
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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/11/health/coronavirus-aerosols-indoors.html Study shows live virus can be collected from aerosols with distances up to 16 ft and opens the possibility that indoor A/C can circulate it around in the air to build up over time. The 6ft recommendation is based on droplet spread, so that may change if it bears out, but more physical distance would still help. Disclaimer that it’s still waiting peer review and doesn’t confirm that it gets to a high enough concentration serve as a likely infection spreader.
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Aug 12, 2020 07:16
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