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So many times in games that I've been like "whoa this is a tough fight, oh I get it, the old unwinnable fight gimmick, well sure, let's ride it out, what the gently caress game over I'm actually supposed to win this what"
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Aug 11, 2020 11:20
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ilmucche posted:Even worse is the classic unwinnable fight you have to still fight. Have fun wasting your resources! Or not because who doesn't finish RPGs with 999 elixirs It always annoys me when there's an intentionally unwinnable fight, but like only on Phase 3 and failing on any other part results in a game over. This makes zero sense!!
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Aug 11, 2020 12:10
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The best unwinnable fights are the ones that you can actually win, and although it doesn’t change the story outcome you get an item or a slightly different cutscene or something.
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Aug 11, 2020 13:23
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The first Dragon Age has a really tough fight that you’re supposed to lose so you can get locked up in a dungeon (starting a whole quest for your companions) but you can actually win the fight and skip all that.
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Aug 11, 2020 13:33
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If Disgaea 2 there's an unwinnable fight against the protagonist from the first game, who is now the Overlord of Hell. If you win anyway you get a bad ending where he throws a temper tantrum and blows up the planet.
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Aug 11, 2020 13:34
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exquisite tea posted:It always annoys me when there's an intentionally unwinnable fight, but like only on Phase 3 and failing on any other part results in a game over. This makes zero sense!! The boss just wanted to show off but instead you beefed it to a regular punch and now he's standing around pulling on his necktie unsure of what to do
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Aug 11, 2020 13:34
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I finished Prey (2017) last night,it was... fine. The combat overstays its welcome,the enemies are rubbish and the story falls flat. The gloo gun is fun,finding secret nooks and crannies ala dishonored/bioshock is fun. But you know the most fun thing? Tidying all the rooms up and throwing all the furniture in a room so everything’s neat.
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Aug 11, 2020 15:39
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My Lovely Horse posted:So many times in games that I've been like "whoa this is a tough fight, oh I get it, the old unwinnable fight gimmick, well sure, let's ride it out, what the gently caress game over I'm actually supposed to win this what" opposite this, I had a friend tell me she tried to actually fight the asylum demon at the start of dark souls with the broken sword for a bit because all anyone ever talks about is how impossibly hard the series is, so while in isolation you’d probably assume you’re not supposed to whittle down a boss 2 minutes into a game by doing 0.5% of its health per swing, after hearing enough exaggerated accounts about the game some new players just go “wow, this game really is as hard as they say!”
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Aug 11, 2020 15:44
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And then you come back on your new game + and just absolutely destroy him, setting the tone of how this second run is going to go.
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Aug 11, 2020 15:53
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DMC5 has an achievement for if you beat the unwinnable fight that kickstarts the whole game. It's not meant to be done without endgame upgrades, but it's still possible to do it 
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Aug 11, 2020 16:18
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And you get an ending for it and everything!
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Aug 11, 2020 16:58
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I like how the ghost stance in Ghost of Tsushima can also be used in standoffs. The prompt only pops up after you kill the first guy, but you can actually hit the buttons during the initial staredown and go directly into ghost stance, cancelling the standoff. This means you can yell "FIGHT ME YOU COWARDS" and pretend to do the whole honorable sword fight thing, only to suddenly go apeshit and charge at everyone while screaming.
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Aug 11, 2020 17:08
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Doc M posted:I like how the ghost stance in Ghost of Tsushima can also be used in standoffs. It's not any less honourable to strike first! He just lets the other guy go first to shock and awe the rest of them. Instead of stand-off it could also be called show-off.
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Aug 11, 2020 18:20
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I will say as a slight critique that for a game where the narrative is that Jin needs to abandon his rigid traditions and embrace more underhanded ways of fighting, it's actually way more fun to do it the first way.
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Aug 11, 2020 18:25
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Lobok posted:It's not any less honourable to strike first! He just lets the other guy go first to shock and awe the rest of them. Instead of stand-off it could also be called show-off.
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Aug 11, 2020 18:29
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"Look, I'm just going to start swinging my supernaturally lethal katana around in front of me, it's your own fault if you get in the way"
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Aug 11, 2020 18:34
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Reminds me a lot of Miyamoto Musashi, who was notorious for unsettling his opponents by showing up super late, and frequently discarded notions like "honor" in favor of "escaping with your skin intact" Specifically thinking of the time he picked a fight with a martial arts school, where in the first two duels, for which he arrived late, he disabled the eldest brother who was head of the school, then killed the second brother. And when the school tried to have him fight the third brother (a twelve-year-old) as an excuse for everyone else to jump Musashi and beat the bejesus out of him, he camped out hours in advance. At the appointed time, Musashi jumped out from behind a bush, killed the kid, and ran off shouting "woob-woob-woob" like Curly Stooge
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Aug 11, 2020 19:08
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Phy posted:Reminds me a lot of Miyamoto Musashi, who was notorious for unsettling his opponents by showing up super late, and frequently discarded notions like "honor" in favor of "escaping with your skin intact" Because you said 'kid' I'm going to assume this was a martial arts class of the modern variety for pre-teens and if you tell me it wasn't I will choose not to believe it
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Aug 11, 2020 19:15
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CJacobs posted:Because you said 'kid' I'm going to assume this was a martial arts class of the modern variety for pre-teens and if you tell me it wasn't I will choose not to believe it Phy posted:And when the school tried to have him fight the third brother (a twelve-year-old)
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Aug 11, 2020 19:33
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Phy posted:Reminds me a lot of Miyamoto Musashi, who was notorious for unsettling his opponents by showing up super late, and frequently discarded notions like "honor" in favor of "escaping with your skin intact" I kinda respect that tbh. I mean, you're already gonna be trying to kill each other. No reason to pretty it up and pretend it's not what it is
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Aug 11, 2020 19:37
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Zinkraptor posted:The best unwinnable fights are the ones that you can actually win, and although it doesn’t change the story outcome you get an item or a slightly different cutscene or something. Dragon Age: Origins had one of these. You can skip a whole questline if you beat one of Logain's goons.
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Aug 11, 2020 20:56
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I like how Chrono Trigger lets you fight the final boss almost whenever you want from pretty early in the game (extremely early in NG+) and you get different endings depending on how far through the game you are, with a special ending if you kill the massively souped up one that's supposed to be unwinnable
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Aug 11, 2020 22:24
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Doc M posted:Hm, that makes sense. I automatically thought of the ghost stance as dishonorable because terror isn't the samurai way, but it's not Jin's fault these Mongols and other goobers poo poo their pants when a crazy man wearing a monkey mask, a giant straw hat and a fundoshi charges at them while screaming bloody murder the entire time. The effect is terror but based on when and how you get it Ghost Stance to me is Jin's Rage Mode.
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Aug 11, 2020 22:54
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Yeah the other two brothers were grown-rear end men, as was Japan's Greatest Sword Saint. And it was a famous school for teaching how to kill men with a sword, not your local community karate class (TBH though, Musashi was supposed to have won his first duel at 13 years old, so I don't know if there was some cultural expectation that the kid be able to defend himself. But still.) (Also, besides his not-exactly-fair-play approach to winning swordfights, Musashi is best known for championing the style of "hold a sword in each hand so you can cut people faster", which he first started developing while fleeing a school of extremely pissed-off fencers after killing their 12-year-old boss in front of them)
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Aug 11, 2020 23:28
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Sobatchja Morda posted:And then you come back on your new game + and just absolutely destroy him, setting the tone of how this second run is going to go. Or just start with the firebombs and then feel ripped off when he drops one of shittiest two handed weapons.  Gay Rat Wedding posted:opposite this, I had a friend tell me she tried to actually fight the asylum demon at the start of dark souls with the broken sword for a bit because all anyone ever talks about is how impossibly hard the series is, so while in isolation you’d probably assume you’re not supposed to whittle down a boss 2 minutes into a game by doing 0.5% of its health per swing, after hearing enough exaggerated accounts about the game some new players just go “wow, this game really is as hard as they say!” It is painfully common for the part where Dark Souls "got too hard" for new players to be the stupid graveyard five seconds after the tutorial.
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Aug 12, 2020 01:20
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John Murdoch posted:It is painfully common for the part where Dark Souls "got too hard" for new players to be the stupid graveyard five seconds after the tutorial. I always felt like it was due to a lack of experience with other games, or games in general. For me it was like 'Oh, these skeletons keep reconstructing themselves, there must be something unique about them' and then you can get (IIRC) Astora's sword if you run past them all, which does holy damage, and that makes them stay dead. The idea of running away from, or skipping fights was definitely something some people weren't used to, same with dying on purpose as a form of travel.
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Aug 12, 2020 05:32
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TheMostFrench posted:I always felt like it was due to a lack of experience with other games, or games in general. For me it was like 'Oh, these skeletons keep reconstructing themselves, there must be something unique about them' and then you can get (IIRC) Astora's sword if you run past them all, which does holy damage, and that makes them stay dead. The idea of running away from, or skipping fights was definitely something some people weren't used to, same with dying on purpose as a form of travel. Most games wouldn't put such dangerous creatures early on in a game, so for many players, if they run into an unwinnable fight, they aren't used to that. If you ran into a fight, well its for a reason and if I die, then I just need to try harder. If you take someone who's mostly played something like Oblivion, Fallout 3 or whatever, the game is scaled to your character. Although Oblivion did it in a profoundly stupid fashion. If you fought something, it was implied you were supposed to fight it and win. If you didn't win, well try a few different things. While the Souls games assumed that if you smashed into a wall a few times, you'd look for a different path.
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Aug 12, 2020 05:59
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TheMostFrench posted:I always felt like it was due to a lack of experience with other games, or games in general. For me it was like 'Oh, these skeletons keep reconstructing themselves, there must be something unique about them' and then you can get (IIRC) Astora's sword if you run past them all, which does holy damage, and that makes them stay dead. The idea of running away from, or skipping fights was definitely something some people weren't used to, same with dying on purpose as a form of travel. Nah, Astora's sword is in front of the undead dragon in the Valley, which you're only likely to get early if you know what you're doing. I'm sure there'd still be some dummies who would bash their heads against the skeletons, but I do think most of the blame can be laid on the obnoxious pRePaRe To DiE overhyped difficulty stuff.
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Aug 12, 2020 06:19
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The first time I played Dark Souls, I took the key as my bonus item and immediately managed to stumble into the back entrance to blighttown, which is accessable from the start if you take the key and pretty close to the main hub It was hard, but just doable enough that I figured it was just the game's difficulty curve until I decided to explore the starting area a little more and found undead burg
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Aug 12, 2020 06:31
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The skeletons in the graveyard used to not give Souls when you killed them before the game started to get patches. Personally I feel that was a good enough indicator that you shouldn't be going that way right from the start but even that maybe wasn't enough for some so they just got rid of it.
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Aug 12, 2020 07:26
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I started playing skyrim again since, despite owning it since 20-goddamn-12, I never finished the Civil war questline, or the assassin's, or the thieves, or Solstheim. So imma get at least two of those done. To ease me back into the control scheme, I started a new character to be the stealth archer I always heard about but never played. And on the way down to Riverwood from Helgen, which I must have done a dozen times by now, I ran across a little bandit camp just off the beaten path that I've never seen before. A few tents and some nervous goons, that's it, but it's kind of neat to still find stuff like that.
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Aug 12, 2020 07:31
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CitizenKain posted:While the Souls games assumed that if you smashed into a wall a few times, you'd look for a different path. Which led to me thinking Capra Demon was the wrong way, so I kept looking and found the Darkroot Basin-Valley of the Drakes connection, and got all the way to Ornstein and Smough before I finally looked up why I couldn't upgrade my weapons any higher.
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Aug 12, 2020 07:50
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I've started playing Superman: Shadow of Apokolips on ps2 and finally got past a level that I got stuck on as a kid and never got past. While the level design is weird, it is at least fairly varied. It's like if Superman 64... worked.
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Aug 12, 2020 07:59
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John Murdoch posted:Nah, Astora's sword is in front of the undead dragon in the Valley, which you're only likely to get early if you know what you're doing. Yeah, people being too smugh and GIT GUD about poo poo lead to the only information anyone had about game being 'it hard, game hardest no handhold hard game, game no baby you game hardest hard game for real gamers hard' so no one had any actual information to use going into it so of course situations like 'I guess 2 damage an attack is how this works' and 'I guess the enemies are just this tough in this game as they go to the graveyard' because what other game puts enemies that dangerous so close to the starting area? Fallout: New Vegas? Anyway, I'm pretty sure there's a Zweihander in the graveyard but I don't know about a holy weapon. Was there a whip that was holy over there or something?
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Aug 12, 2020 08:37
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My Lovely Horse posted:So many times in games that I've been like "whoa this is a tough fight, oh I get it, the old unwinnable fight gimmick, well sure, let's ride it out, what the gently caress game over I'm actually supposed to win this what" Final Fantasy IX is bad about this because there are a couple of fights that you can't win, but you have to survive a certain number of rounds before the combat ends. Back to good things! In Dragon Quest III, one early mission you have is to get the crown of Romania back from the guy who stole it. Once you did, the king is so grateful he offers to step down and have you become king in his stead. If you say yes, you are immediately crowned king. You become a guy in fancy robes with no adventuring party, and every NPC in town addresses you with proper respect and deference (including one guy who grouses about how he could've become king, then notices you're right there and apologizes.) You can't leave town, it's too dangerous, and you can't cast spells or use items, such things are beneath a king's royal duties. For a while I thought this was just a trap and I would have to redo a big section of the game, but no- there's a place in town where there are monster fights, and you can find the old king there enjoying common life, and if you ask him he'll take the crown back and you become a regular adventurer again. And the townsfolk even have dialogue indicating they know you used to be king and that was weird and kind of a shame you stepped down. It's a lot of work for one gag and I really appreciate that. (I'm assuming it was on the original console version, where it's even more impressive because of the NES/Famicom's space limitations.)
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Aug 12, 2020 08:39
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RareAcumen posted:Yeah, people being too smugh and GIT GUD about poo poo lead to the only information anyone had about game being 'it hard, game hardest no handhold hard game, game no baby you game hardest hard game for real gamers hard' so no one had any actual information to use going into it so of course situations like 'I guess 2 damage an attack is how this works' and 'I guess the enemies are just this tough in this game as they go to the graveyard' because what other game puts enemies that dangerous so close to the starting area? Fallout: New Vegas? Bonus: my companion got killed by the bear, then I finished the bear, and I got free awesome loot! Even jankier game Two Worlds has zero gating for everything so you constantly run into extremely difficult encounters. Fortunately, you are invincible when backstepping, so you can win against everything by just hitting the backstep button a lot. I once beat up a gate guard who was mouthing off with this tactic, gaining me access to a rebel camp way earlier than I was supposed to, and they all acted like I had killed the king for them, really good poo poo. And less western, you can just immediately walk to a lategame town in Final Fantasy 2, IF you can handle the monsters along the way. quote:Anyway, I'm pretty sure there's a Zweihander in the graveyard but I don't know about a holy weapon. Was there a whip that was holy over there or something? Funny story about that: I too started with the Master Key in my first time playing DS, opened the door with it, and after years of playing Zelda, thought that lost me the key and I didn't actually want that, maybe it'd be way more useful on a later door?! So I made a new character, didn't pick the Master Key so I couldn't accidentally lose it (I know, weird logic), and never sequence broke again.
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Aug 12, 2020 11:39
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BioEnchanted posted:I've started playing Superman: Shadow of Apokolips on ps2 and finally got past a level that I got stuck on as a kid and never got past. While the level design is weird, it is at least fairly varied. It's like if Superman 64... worked. Superman Returns is the one most people remember on PS2 because it had the city-as-health-bar mechanic but like a lot of videogame adaptations of movies, it had to extend the story and one section of the game has you face Mongul on Warworld! It's hard to picture that fitting into any live action Superman film, let alone that Brandon Routh one.
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Aug 12, 2020 12:07
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I do like the writing in the Superman Shadow of Apokolips game as well, like in the Dam level where the head scientist starts to make his excuses and Lex just interrupts with "Let me guess sarcastically '~The blueprints are too complicated~', '~The fusion power source is far in advance of our current understanding of science~', '~The Timeframe given is too strict~'. Well, that's no longer your concern..."
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Aug 12, 2020 12:38
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BioEnchanted posted:I do like the writing in the Superman Shadow of Apokolips game as well, like in the Dam level where the head scientist starts to make his excuses and Lex just interrupts with "Let me guess sarcastically '~The blueprints are too complicated~', '~The fusion power source is far in advance of our current understanding of science~', '~The Timeframe given is too strict~'. Well, that's no longer your concern..." Nice, and from my quick reading up on it the game had almost the entire Superman TAS cast in it so those lines are all Clancy Brown. Edit: watching some footage of the game and one PYF little thing is that your lock-on reticule is in the shape of the Superman symbol diamond. Lobok has a new favorite as of 13:11 on Aug 12, 2020 |
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Aug 12, 2020 13:08
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Simply Simon posted:No, John Murdoch is right, Astora's is down the valley of drakes path, where you can only go if you start with the Master Key. Maybe that was my experience. I remember encountering the skeletons, avoiding that area, then coming back with a holy damage weapon later and finding that they stayed dead this time.
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Aug 12, 2020 14:14
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