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It’s hard to argue that total warhammer 2 isn’t too big when no matter what faction you play at least half of the map ends up completely immaterial to your campaign yeah
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Aug 12, 2020 09:10
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That said TW2 is the total war game I would play to my dying day if I had to make that choice and I wouldn’t even have to remotely think about that
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Aug 12, 2020 09:18
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Eh, this particular critique of TW games doesn't work in Paradox thread. What percentage of acting characters do you even see during your CK2 campaign? TW campaign structure is weak cause it has few systems making hegemon gameplay interesting. Even in EU4, a game with a very basic internal politics, you still have interesting problems when you can beat 5 strongest countries in a war at the same time. You have to juggle truces, coalitions, vassal liberty desires and so on. In TW your expansion seems to only be limited by the fact it's tiresome to move more than 20 units around. Warhammer has scripted chaos invasion that may provide additional challenge, but still once you survive the initial challenge - bam, you're the strongest faction in the world, nothing can stop you now. But 80% of your campaign is still ahead of you, hope you like watching turns passing by. 3K is much better in that regard cause somehow it has an interesting strategic gameplay. Attila too, somehow. It's even surprising to me that those games are made by the same people who make other TW games.
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Aug 12, 2020 09:23
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Torrannor posted:I have a ton of Medieval 2 playtime, it's by far my most played historical TW game. But mainly because I played the Third Age Middle Earth mod to death. They can release Medieval 3, it will never replace Total Warhammer 2 as my most played TW game. Total Warhammer 3 will probably have that honor then.
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Aug 12, 2020 10:10
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Ham posted:Total Warhammer 3 will probably have that honor then. That's totally possible, but I'm not a big Chaos fan, so it depends on what else they will put into it, and how well a Mortal Empires like campaign plays. It's pretty interesting that I was mainly excited for TW2 for giving me access to the factions I wanted to play but weren't in TW1, but CK3 reduces start dates and takes away all non-feudal/tribal rulers, yet I'm still supremely excited for it. Of course they picked the two start dates that I played as 98% of the time (until the Iron Century date came out), so that helps. But the mechanical overhauls are just so amazing, I'm very glad that it will be out in less than three weeks.
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Aug 12, 2020 10:25
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Speaking of Crusader Kings, the second preview stream is live now.
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Aug 12, 2020 16:12
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That was a super fun stream.
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Aug 12, 2020 16:26
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ilitarist posted:Eh, this particular critique of TW games doesn't work in Paradox thread. What percentage of acting characters do you even see during your CK2 campaign? I think one of the interesting aspects of CK is because you only ever directly manage 10 or so counties at max, no matter how big your empire gets, the map never feels "too big" because you aren't having to micromanage more and more territory that you don't really care about beyond the fact that it makes more money flow in. The thing that makes TW games slog as you get bigger is the need to constantly order more and more armies around and manage more and more build queues for towns, which is why often people just come up with some sort of template that they will slap down everywhere and that raises the question of if there's no interesting decisions to be made, why can't I just automate it? The fact that CK is all about delegation makes it very unique and also keeps it from suffering this issue - if you find you have too many vassals and it's getting annoying to manage them all, you can always consolidate them under a king. Of course this carries risks because one very strong vassal is more dangerous than a bunch of weak ones, but that's what makes it an interesting decision.
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Aug 12, 2020 16:26
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Here's the archived stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/707991173
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Aug 12, 2020 16:28
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Sindai posted:Here's the archived stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/707991173 for those of us at work, anything new?
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Aug 12, 2020 16:30
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a fatguy baldspot posted:for those of us at work, anything new? A lot more demonstration of the scheme system which is quite robust, a good preview of combat with the emphasized terrain effects, they got schooled by the AI in war. And a whole bunch of fuckery.
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Aug 12, 2020 16:33
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Ham posted:they got schooled by the AI in war. These two things are very related. But watching that cascading series of avoidable fuckups was very Losing Is Fun, I think? CK was always the Paradox series that understood that idea the best. Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Aug 12, 2020 |
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Aug 12, 2020 16:52
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Holy Wars costing piety and requiring a pious reputation seems like a big change. Now just bordering holy war targets doesn't mean free duchies forever. They couldn't even declare a county-level holy war thanks to all the piety they lost for being a cynical incestuous adulterous schemer.
Sindai fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Aug 12, 2020 |
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Aug 12, 2020 18:00
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Dallan Invictus posted:These two things are very related. 2 gold 
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Aug 12, 2020 18:15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGpoicZOeTA
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Aug 12, 2020 18:22
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I think one of the interesting aspects of CK is because you only ever directly manage 10 or so counties at max, no matter how big your empire gets, the map never feels "too big" because you aren't having to micromanage more and more territory that you don't really care about beyond the fact that it makes more money flow in. Yeah, other games have the ability to delegate management of the far flung corners of your empire, but they always make you feel like you are playing wrong for doing so. Like in other games, sure, you can have the AI manage a city you don’t care about, but the button always seems tacked on so that it feels like you are lazy and missing part of the game if you pick it. And that doesn’t even go in to the crappy job the AI does. In CK, the delegation is an organic part of the game where you are supposed to let your buddies take care of things is part of the core design of the game and managing how much you empower them and deciding if you want them to thrive (and thus possibly build a power base that can rival yours) or to keep them weaker than you and just not screw up your other plans is a part of the fun that you miss out on by not delegating.
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Aug 12, 2020 19:04
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Sindai posted:Holy Wars costing piety and requiring a pious reputation seems like a big change. Now just bordering holy war targets doesn't mean free duchies forever. They couldn't even declare a county-level holy war thanks to all the piety they lost for being a cynical incestuous adulterous schemer. good, hopefully they've also given catholics some way to expand into other catholics so you dont have to play a game on the frontier to get into lots of wars.
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Aug 12, 2020 19:40
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a fatguy baldspot posted:good, hopefully they've also given catholics some way to expand into other catholics so you dont have to play a game on the frontier to get into lots of wars. Claim shenanigans is the premiere way of expanding for christians and I hope they don't change that - sure, it's less frequent than holy wars but that makes sense for the era.
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Aug 12, 2020 19:51
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Ham posted:Claim shenanigans is the premiere way of expanding for christians and I hope they don't change that - sure, it's less frequent than holy wars but that makes sense for the era. i guess. i just feel like if the guy next to me is mad low piety and three bastard children i should get permission from the pope to take his poo poo
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Aug 12, 2020 19:57
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a fatguy baldspot posted:good, hopefully they've also given catholics some way to expand into other catholics so you dont have to play a game on the frontier to get into lots of wars. Maybe if you had a hook on another realm's chancellor you could get them to help you fabricate a claim? I dunno if that would make sense, but I'd like some options to sabotage a rival's realm by getting hooks on his councillors in general, apart from the spymaster. Marshals could stifle recruiting or training, stewards could embezzle funds, chaplains could ruin their relationship with the pope/religious head.
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Aug 12, 2020 19:57
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a fatguy baldspot posted:good, hopefully they've also given catholics some way to expand into other catholics so you dont have to play a game on the frontier to get into lots of wars. Like Ham says, the answer you're apparently supposed to use is "claim shenanigans" (either fabricating or marrying into them), but IIRC some of the "unjust conquest" CBs that were added in Jade Dragon (conquest for counties that you need to form a duchy not held by someone, force-vassalizing a neighbour of lower rank) have been revealed to be locked behind Diplomacy lifestyle perks. I haven't seen if they've brought back the generic "border dispute" CB anywhere yet?
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Aug 12, 2020 20:09
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I think that claim fabrication will also be based on the new scheme system rather than the annoying mostly random "it could happen tomorrow or it could take 30 years" system that CK2 has, so it will be more reliable in general. I might be misremembering this but I think it was mentioned in a FAQ before.
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Aug 12, 2020 21:36
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I think that claim fabrication will also be based on the new scheme system rather than the annoying mostly random "it could happen tomorrow or it could take 30 years" system that CK2 has, so it will be more reliable in general. I might be misremembering this but I think it was mentioned in a FAQ before. That'd be one of the biggest improvements over CK2 if so.
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Aug 12, 2020 21:44
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I think that claim fabrication will also be based on the new scheme system rather than the annoying mostly random "it could happen tomorrow or it could take 30 years" system that CK2 has, so it will be more reliable in general. I might be misremembering this but I think it was mentioned in a FAQ before. Having a more consistent method to obtain claims will make the game feel a lot better even if the new method is technically more complicated
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Aug 12, 2020 22:12
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It was funny thinking tour spymaster spent thirty years looking at the same document hoping to find a single word to use
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Aug 12, 2020 22:37
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Fuzzy McDoom posted:Speaking of plots, is my impression accurate that in CK2 it is a million times better to have 1 80% plotter than 80 1% plotters? In the 80x 1% case none of them reach the allowed threshold though. Also plot leader gets their own separate MTTH event. lurksion fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Aug 12, 2020 |
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Aug 12, 2020 23:01
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Am I recalling correctly that plotters who are in the same physical location as the target get some sort of bonus or something? I believe I read where someone suggested attaching yourself to a retinue and sitting on the target's capital so you'd get special events.
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Aug 12, 2020 23:35
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Fuzzy McDoom posted:Speaking of plots, is my impression accurate that in CK2 it is a million times better to have 1 80% plotter than 80 1% plotters? Base MTTH is 4200 months. The 1x 80% gets a 0.6^8 individual bonus, reducing MTTH to 70.5, which we can convert into a daily chance of 0.978% The 8x 10% gets a 0.6 individual bonus, reducing MTTH to 2520, which we can convert into a daily chance of 0.028%, with 8 independent draws for an overall daily chance of 0.220% The 32x 2.5% gets no individual bonus, converted into a daily chance of 0.017%, with 32 draws for an overall daily chance of 0.527% For reference, a single high power plotter become better than the equivalent swarm of 2.5% plotters at a individual plot power of 70% lurksion fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Aug 12, 2020 |
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Aug 12, 2020 23:37
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megane posted:Am I recalling correctly that plotters who are in the same physical location as the target get some sort of bonus or something? I believe I read where someone suggested attaching yourself to a retinue and sitting on the target's capital so you'd get special events.
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Aug 12, 2020 23:38
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Oh, another important thing from the stream is that it seems like regents and regencies aren't in the game at all. No sign of them in the UI anywhere and when they tried to revoke that county from a 6 year old the declaration of war came straight from the kid.
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Aug 12, 2020 23:38
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That’s....bad
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Aug 13, 2020 00:16
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I could see that being something they flesh out in a future DLC.
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Aug 13, 2020 00:27
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I think that claim fabrication will also be based on the new scheme system rather than the annoying mostly random "it could happen tomorrow or it could take 30 years" system that CK2 has, so it will be more reliable in general. I might be misremembering this but I think it was mentioned in a FAQ before. It was stated early on (I think in a dev diary?) that fabricating claims has a ceiling on how much time it will take.
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Aug 13, 2020 00:29
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Sindai posted:Oh, another important thing from the stream is that it seems like regents and regencies aren't in the game at all. No sign of them in the UI anywhere and when they tried to revoke that county from a 6 year old the declaration of war came straight from the kid. Thats weird and has definitely tempered my excitement a bit. Regencies are a pretty basic part of the game and are a very clearly defined period of weakness, some of my best memories come from surviving a difficult regency.
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Aug 13, 2020 03:49
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Sindai posted:Oh, another important thing from the stream is that it seems like regents and regencies aren't in the game at all. No sign of them in the UI anywhere and when they tried to revoke that county from a 6 year old the declaration of war came straight from the kid. I'm 99% sure that the Proud Bavarian dude talked about regencies in one of the Paradox sponsored videos.
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Aug 13, 2020 05:24
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I'm going to assume until shown otherwise that they've just changed how regencies are displayed, and that maybe it's a purely internal thing with the child king being the face still. That would be an extremely weird thing to miss out on.
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Aug 13, 2020 05:56
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I'm going to assume until shown otherwise that they've just changed how regencies are displayed, and that maybe it's a purely internal thing with the child king being the face still. That would be an extremely weird thing to miss out on. Isn't this how it works in CK2? I'm certain I've seen acceptance letters sent by literal infant rulers (which were obviously written by the regent under the ruler's name).
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Aug 13, 2020 06:10
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Pigbuster posted:Isn't this how it works in CK2? I'm certain I've seen acceptance letters sent by literal infant rulers (which were obviously written by the regent under the ruler's name). It's been a while, but I think if you click on the country you see next to the child king the regent in a smaller circle overlapping slightly on the child king's portrait, and people are reacting because they're not seeing that in the preview streams and assuming that it means there are no regencies?
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Aug 13, 2020 06:16
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I would guess regents take the council position normally occupied by your spouse.
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Aug 13, 2020 06:16
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Regencies were boring and I won't miss them if they're gone
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Aug 13, 2020 15:02
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