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Kurnugia posted:it is vital for the progress of communism that we have as many power struggles as possible within the party, since progressive disintegration of our revolutionary ideals into tribalistic power cliques that eternally purge the poo poo out of each other, is what made the soviet union such an miraclous procession of assrape througghout the centuries. truly, you cant ever discover enough wreckers in the party. its what makes it a party, really. party on we should be so lucky that the Soviet Union were to survive even just one century, never mind multiple ones
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Aug 13, 2020 10:37
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Bryter posted:do not slander NATO’s righteous bombing campaign in Kosovo in that thread, they get extremely upset the top poster in that thread is a gamer gate guy who got banned for being a pedo 
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Aug 13, 2020 10:43
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Aug 13, 2020 11:47
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Peanut President posted:i mean the dream of every communist is to be found guilty of being too right wing no one wringing their hands about purges understands communism, but this poster gets it
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Aug 13, 2020 11:59
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Ferrinus posted:lovestone was a huge dumb piece of poo poo who tied up the CPUSA with factional power struggles for years in his efforts to prevent the CPUSA from taking white supremacy seriously, and yet he was given opportunity after opportunity to come correct before finally being purged (which is to say, kicked out; not killed) after refusing the international's directives and attempting to like, legally appropriate party funds and resources for himself or something. he proceeded to become a CIA collaborator. completely beyond me why you would bring him up as an example of purges being either arbitrary and unjust or set off with a hair-trigger sensitivity to anything even slightly smelling of dissension when neither was remotely true in his case  hmmm i think the reason i brought him up is for the exact reasons that you mention since he was the driving force behind the expulsions and purges of the early cpusa. of course later he was revealed to be a horrible piece of poo poo so obviously maybe this could cause some people then and if not then at least maybe now to reconsider if the individuals he helped purged should be reevaluated as weve now discovered his politics are horrifying. whats that, no? terrific!
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Aug 13, 2020 12:31
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poo poo, I've never seen nothing more than hearsay on that. The CIA wasn't around in '35 but there were certainly enough people who wanted to, or were planning to, kill Huey Long by then. What's the source you're quoting?
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Aug 13, 2020 12:42
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what book is this?
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Aug 13, 2020 12:42
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e-dt posted:what book is this? not the original source but i thought this was cute https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/the-cia-versus-joe-mccarthy/
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Aug 13, 2020 12:49
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Dreylad posted:poo poo, I've never seen nothing more than hearsay on that. The CIA wasn't around in '35 but there were certainly enough people who wanted to, or were planning to, kill Huey Long by then. e-dt posted:what book is this? "The Devil's Chessboard", by David Talbot
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Aug 13, 2020 12:55
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exmarx posted:the top poster in that thread is a gamer gate guy who got banned for being a pedo birds of a feather
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Aug 13, 2020 15:58
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Dreylad posted:poo poo, I've never seen nothing more than hearsay on that. The CIA wasn't around in '35 but there were certainly enough people who wanted to, or were planning to, kill Huey Long by then. wouldn't this fall more squarely on the shoulders of private detective agencies given the time? christ, a hundred dollars back in that day and the Pinkertons would smash up anyone for you
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Aug 13, 2020 16:15
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Victory Position posted:wouldn't this fall more squarely on the shoulders of private detective agencies given the time? christ, a hundred dollars back in that day and the Pinkertons would smash up anyone for you The Office of Naval Intelligence is also a possibility
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Aug 13, 2020 16:18
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THS posted:ppl who disagree over whether to vote green or psl for president is so funny, cant think of anything less that matters IMO, electoralism can and should be used by the proletariat to make a fight, even if only slightly, easier. having an actually-left-of-center party pass the 5% margin or whatever might make fighting for things ever so slightly easier. that's not to say you should count on BEB to actually give you anything by itself (because let's face it, dems/reps will just raise the funding limit to 10% if a third party gets to 5% by some miracle, but you can then point to that fact and maybe radicalize a couple more people), but just like rope, electoral bullshit is a tool that's being sold by capitalists
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Aug 13, 2020 16:20
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electoralism isnt the same thing as participating in elections. running candidates should be something revolutionaries do when and where they can or even just calling for protest votes. its only electoralism when you view winning parliamentary or council seats as the means through which change will happen.
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Aug 13, 2020 16:35
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you'd be a fool not to use all options at your disposal - and having a socialist party in parliament can be great outreach and stop the biggest abusals of power - but you're an even bigger fool if you think elites won't stop elections from influencing their power if they are ever in danger of doing so.
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Aug 13, 2020 16:38
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Truga posted:IMO, electoralism can and should be used by the proletariat to make a fight, even if only slightly, easier. having an actually-left-of-center party pass the 5% margin or whatever might make fighting for things ever so slightly easier. the funny part is that these parties left of the democrats are running two separate tickets. there is zero reason to have a green and psl ticket in the same election, not that they will make 5% combined
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Aug 13, 2020 17:00
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i just see ostensible leftists i know anecdotally 50/50 down the middle, whose politics are not very different in any practical terms, respectively stanning for hawkins or la riva. it’s silly that everyone cant agree to pick one for the protest vote
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Aug 13, 2020 17:02
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dex_sda posted:you'd be a fool not to use all options at your disposal - and having a socialist party in parliament can be great outreach and stop the biggest abusals of power - but you're an even bigger fool if you think elites won't stop elections from influencing their power if they are ever in danger of doing so. I'm here thinking about all the lame-duck laws Michigan passed in order to completely cut the legs out from under Gretchen Whitmer
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Aug 13, 2020 17:03
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then there’s just as many who want to boycott the vote, which i also think means little in a country where half the people dont vote, so you have 3 different electoral strategies in 2020 which will end up making precisely zero splash
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Aug 13, 2020 17:03
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THS posted:then there’s just as many who want to boycott the vote, which i also think means little in a country where half the people dont vote, so you have 3 different electoral strategies in 2020 which will end up making precisely zero splash i can't in good conscience hate anyone who refuses to participate in the joke that is the us presidential elections in 2020
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Aug 13, 2020 17:19
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oh yeah it doesnt matter. the biggest mistake is fetishizing your vote at all like it matters one bit its like boycotting a good - if you’re not doing it in concert with a ton of people who will make an actual impact on the entity you’re boycotting, then it’s just a consumerist affectation. declaring for hawkins or la riva or acting like your boycott of the vote matters is a similar affectation. if sanders had gone full “burn it down” mode and decided to run third party, that’d be a different story
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Aug 13, 2020 17:23
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THS posted:oh yeah it doesnt matter. the biggest mistake is fetishizing your vote at all like it matters one bit I think even if it makes no real impact proudly stating your intent to boycott the charade and your reasons is a Good Thing I don't buy nestle products and when someone found out why they were horrified and crack pinged towards the radical direction just a tiny bit. not a replacement for real action, but also, not a bad thing
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Aug 13, 2020 17:34
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I guess I'd say I agree fetishizing your vote is bad - but guess what, even more lefty minded libs do exactly that and it's a possible avenue for agitprop. similarly, none of us woke up and were anti-consummerist from the get-go, it takes time to deprogram and starting to boycott brands can be a place for that.
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Aug 13, 2020 17:37
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dex_sda posted:I guess I'd say I agree fetishizing your vote is bad - but guess what, even more lefty minded libs do exactly that and it's a possible avenue for agitprop. similarly, none of us woke up and were anti-consummerist from the get-go, it takes time to deprogram and starting to boycott brands can be a place for that. true
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Aug 13, 2020 17:49
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apropos to nothing posted:
but people who got purged frequently DID get reevaluated and allowed back into the party, either because problems with the process came to light or because their very sentencing included explicit means to get back into the party's good graces, like with that one dude who tried to kick black people out of a cpusa pool hall. in fact lovestone, as i just said, is an example of how lenient and ready to forgive-and-forget the process would be, with stalin himself making a series of speeches demanding that the factionalism and infighting in the CPUSA cease and that lovestone resume working with whoever was opposite lovestone in the factional rift rather than immediately calling for lovestone's liquidation because it was all lovestone's fault. there's tons of stories of people getting purged or even gulag'd and then reinstated a few years later as the situation changed so this really comes down to you just being upset that certain figures DIDN'T get a second evaluation in light of new facts or unfolding history. but the thing is, they did. it's just that even with 20/20 hindsight, it turns out that they really did suck that much rear end
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Aug 13, 2020 18:09
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Kurnugia posted:it is vital for the progress of communism that we have as many power struggles as possible within the party, since progressive disintegration of our revolutionary ideals into tribalistic power cliques that eternally purge the poo poo out of each other, is what made the soviet union such an miraclous procession of assrape througghout the centuries. truly, you cant ever discover enough wreckers in the party. its what makes it a party, really. party on hey, gently caress you! if you're really concerned with the historical victory of the working class you can refrain from rape jokes
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Aug 13, 2020 18:17
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V. Illych L. posted:radical left activist groups almost always care a lot about climate issues. voters, by and large, don't, or they may try to isolate them by voting for bourgeois Green parties who have more mainstream authority on the issue and still don't break 5-10% most of the time Bernie got cheated pretty much conclusively and Corbyn was victim of a real deal conspiracy to make sure Labour would stay a center right party and not rock the boat.
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Aug 13, 2020 18:34
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Peanut President posted:Bernie got cheated pretty much conclusively and Corbyn was victim of a real deal conspiracy to make sure Labour would stay a center right party and not rock the boat. It goes to back to fact that the current Western elite refuses any deviation period including on climate change.
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Aug 13, 2020 18:39
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Peanut President posted:Bernie got cheated pretty much conclusively and Corbyn was victim of a real deal conspiracy to make sure Labour would stay a center right party and not rock the boat. If you mention this to any lib they'll just roll their eyes and scoff at you for being a conspiracy theorist. Than they go back to posting about Moscow Mitch
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Aug 13, 2020 18:40
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Peanut President posted:Bernie got cheated pretty much conclusively and Corbyn was victim of a real deal conspiracy to make sure Labour would stay a center right party and not rock the boat. How did Bernie get cheated?
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Aug 13, 2020 18:42
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:How did Bernie get cheated? james clyburn didn't endorse him before south carolina
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Aug 13, 2020 18:44
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:How did Bernie get cheated? iirc the exit polls were so wildly out of sync with the results that there’s basically only one explanation
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Aug 13, 2020 18:48
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i say swears online posted:james clyburn didn't endorse him before south carolina let's be fair, centrist voltron dropping out for at the time 4th place candidate is extremely rotten
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Aug 13, 2020 18:51
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There's other things. The shadow app failure. Iowa caucus having weird results and changing them. There's a ton of sus poo poo about the democratic primary. Going back and forth on mail in ballots. Other things that I am not remembering right now.
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Aug 13, 2020 18:52
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dex_sda posted:let's be fair, centrist voltron dropping out for at the time 4th place candidate is extremely rotten yeah but that’s not really cheating, that’s just politics
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Aug 13, 2020 18:53
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:How did Bernie get cheated? iowa, obama getting everyone not named biden or warren to drop out, copying the GOP in slashing voting booths in pro-sanders areas, etc
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Aug 13, 2020 18:54
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Lostconfused posted:There's other things. the tried and true method of calling it after the coin toss, then arguing against the concept of coin tosses universally,
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Aug 13, 2020 18:54
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indigi posted:yeah but that’s not really cheating, that’s just politics yeah, i think it's important to point out that its rotten, and you should definitely argue the point to libs, but like with corbyn having no effective response to the media campaign against him, you kind of had to know it was how things were going to be played and have a strategy to defeat it. revolutions arent won on the purity of intentions
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Aug 13, 2020 18:56
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indigi posted:iirc the exit polls were so wildly out of sync with the results that there’s basically only one explanation I'd definitely be interested in looking more into this side of it, seems like a cool avenue of study. Do you know if someone has a write-up or has compiled discrepancies?
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Aug 13, 2020 19:02
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indigi posted:yeah but that’s not really cheating, that’s just politics sure which is why electoralism is bad. but ~the idea~ sold to the masses is that elections are fair and they get to choose when what happened there was the choices of the first couple states were thrown out in favor of some guy who used to be president demanding that a socialist be stopped. e; also holding people hostage during a pandemic is not even cheating or politics, it's downright murder and democrats should be ashamed
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Aug 13, 2020 19:21
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