Marine Thread 2023: A Shiny New 2020 Army Thread for Your Deployment (skip to p12)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Marine Thread 2023: A Shiny New 2020 Army Thread for Your Deployment (skip to p12)

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Flikken: Oct 23, 2009; 10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it

mlmp08 posted:

Politics chat is weird/dumb in the military, because on active duty, at work you 100% cannot say "vote for so and so," but you would be 100% within rights to say "I support guns, god, no taxes, charter private schools, a border wall, banning mail-in voting, and also we should bring back literacy tests for voting" and since those are about issues and not a party, it's fine, unless you're like... a leader holding formations to rant your issues at people.

Or a drill sergeant telling a class full of recruits "It's in your best interest to vote Republican"

# ? Aug 14, 2020 15:19

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:34

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

I remember, as an LT, when every officer in the BN was told they had to sign up for AUSA membership/dues, and if they didn't, they could report to duty on Saturday where they would be given an 8-hour block to hand-write their essay as to why they didn't support AUSA and turn it in to the BN XO and CDR.

Years later, that former BN CDR was giving an ethics training and like "hoo, uh.... So I didn't know I couldn't do that back then, yikes! Please don't do what I did...haha.... heh."

# ? Aug 14, 2020 15:24

Bell_: Sep 3, 2006; Tiny Baltimore
A billion light years away
A goon's posting the same thing
But he's already turned to dust
And the shitpost we read
Is a billion light-years old
A ghost just like the rest of us

Hell, a VAO can't even try to convince you to vote: they're only to guide you and provide you the means to do so, and remind you of dates for primaries, elections, and registering for them.

# ? Aug 14, 2020 15:25

Mustang: Jun 18, 2006; “We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

The only "political" thing I did in the Army is poo poo on the confederacy every single time I heard someone bring it up.

mlmp08 posted:

I remember, as an LT, when every officer in the BN was told they had to sign up for AUSA membership/dues, and if they didn't, they could report to duty on Saturday where they would be given an 8-hour block to hand-write their essay as to why they didn't support AUSA and turn it in to the BN XO and CDR.

Years later, that former BN CDR was giving an ethics training and like "hoo, uh.... So I didn't know I couldn't do that back then, yikes! Please don't do what I did...haha.... heh."

As an S4 it surprised me how often I had to say "sir, we can't do that. It's illegal." And the S4 is probably the shadiest dude in the BN.

# ? Aug 14, 2020 17:02

PeterCat: Apr 8, 2020; Believe women.

Nimmy posted:

I go out of my way to shut down politics because of this. "You're in uniform, don't talk about politics" usually works unless you're junior enlisted it may not. I know they're all MAGA imbeciles who would probably defect to the brownshirts in the event of an actual Trump coup attempt, but I feel like if I can stress that the army isn't loving political maybe I'll at least get some to think about how dumb they're being. Maybe. A lot seemed to be responsive to what I was saying when Trump was trying to send active duty soldiers to beat up protesters. And I NEVER personally express a political opinion.

This being the Guard it's more of a Good Old Boy's club and I'm def the outsider, so I bite my tongue alot. In days past I'd end up arguing with a group of 5 people at once and it was exhausting. Now the only overtly political thing I do is I won't stand for Fox News in a common area.

I got real cranky at the last school I went to where the civilian contractors teaching it used the COE briefs as a soapox for their opinions.

# ? Aug 14, 2020 17:05

Dream Weaver: Jan 23, 2007; Sweat Baby, sweat baby

Mustang posted:

The only "political" thing I did in the Army is poo poo on the confederacy every single time I heard someone bring it up.

As an S4 it surprised me how often I had to say "sir, we can't do that. It's illegal." And the S4 is probably the shadiest dude in the BN.

Can confirm that this was a large portion of my job as S4. �That�s illegal. Here�s why...�

# ? Aug 16, 2020 02:57

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

A proper S4/G4 knows when it�s not illegal but instead merely against regulation. Now find me the person who signed that regulation, and let�s call them for an exception to policy...

# ? Aug 16, 2020 03:57

brains: May 12, 2004

Army Times posted:

New Army aviators will incur 10-year service obligations, up from six, starting in October

Commissioned and warrant officers who enter flight training starting in October will incur a 10-year service obligation once they become rated Army aviators, according to guidance published Aug. 12. The service requirement is four years longer than the previous commitment.

Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy signed a memorandum for the change in June. The new requirement matches the service commitment for Air Force aviators.

Soldiers currently in training are exempt from the new policy, according to Chief Warrant Officer 5 William S. Kearns, an aviation policy integrator for the Army G-1 office. The new policy will also apply to the Army Reserve and National Guard, though the obligated service remains part-time.
...
Like the other armed services, the Army has struggled with pilot retention in recent years.

While the service�s aggregate number of pilots is suitable, there has been an imbalance between junior, mid-level and senior aviators across the force, Army officials have acknowledged over the past year.

clearly the solution to masses of pilots ditching at the 10-12 year mark is to force new ones to serve 10 years

hmmm, what could it be, though? why are mid-career pilots leaving in droves?

Army Times posted:

Army pilots get first incentive pay raise in 20 years

The Army just bumped up its Aviation Incentive Pay rates for the first time in more than 20 years to compete with the civilian market, according to new pay charts posted by Army Human Resources Command.
...
The Army has also been working to address its pilot shortfall through exit surveys to figure out exactly why pilots are leaving for the private sector.

�One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall,� Brig. Gen. Michael C. McCurry, director of Army aviation for the Office of the deputy chief of staff G-3/5/7, said in September. �Well the short answer is, we don�t know. We don�t have good measurements out there right now to tell us why an aviator is getting out of the force."

The service doesn�t have trouble recruiting pilots, Army leaders have said, but there is a problem with producing them at the schoolhouse and keeping mid-level soldiers in the cockpit.

McCurry said the service has been working to increase production at Fort Rucker, Alabama, the Army�s primary flight training post and home to the Army Aviation Center for Excellence.

The operations tempo for Army combat aviation brigades has not decreased over the past few years.

�Today, every active component CAB is allocated or on mission,� McCurry said in September. �The appetite for Army aviation has not subsided, as the receiver of continual requests for aviation forces in the fight from the [Combatant Commands], that appetite has not waned.�

i guess we'll never know

# ? Aug 22, 2020 04:02

A Bad Poster: Sep 25, 2006; Seriously, shut the fuck up.

I love explaining to people why being a military pilot sucks so bad, because everyone just thinks it's a cool job where you fly jets all the time like Top Gun.

# ? Aug 22, 2020 04:11

PeterCat: Apr 8, 2020; Believe women.

While being an Army Guard aviator has given me training for a civilian career, I can't recommend it to anyone. If you want to learn to fly and have the government pay for it, just enlist, get your GI Bill, and use that at a civilian flight school. If you want to fly in the Army, go active. You've got the same 10 year obligation, with the same annual flight time minimums, but you'll get full time pay and benefits, including full time flight pay which is pro-rated for the reserve component.

Flying in the Guard is a pain in the rear end. You have your normal one weekend a month, plus 2 weeks annual training, plus you have to set aside about 1 day/night a week to go and fly to make your minimums. The flight facility will not be near where you live. You still have to go to a 4-6 week Army school seemingly annually. You also have to spend a 4 day trip to the flight simulator twice a year. The full timers at the facility haven't have a civilian job in 10 years and have not concept of balancing Guard and real life.

Plus you'll be deployed every 3rd or 4th year so good luck trying to keep some stability in your personal and professional life if you're not already full time with the Guard. At least on Active Duty you're 24/7 and the military is your job. Oh, and if you're a commissioned officer, unless your state has a CAB HQ in it, you'll top out at O-3 then have to find something else to do.

Keep in mind that 10 year obligation comes at the end of flight school, and to get into flight school in the Guard they want you to enlist, go to BCT and AIT, probably deploy, then put in a packet, sit in front of a board, then get put on an OML for a slot to Rucker, which may end up being a short fall so be prepared to drop everything and move to Alabama for a year or two depending on the bubbles down there.

Also Also the branch chief of Army Aviation has specifically stated that their mission is to train Army Aviators not to prepare a person for a civilian job, which fair enough, but something to keep in mind.

Army Times posted:

The service doesn�t have trouble recruiting pilots, Army leaders have said, but there is a problem with producing them at the schoolhouse and keeping mid-level soldiers in the cockpit.

Part of this is because the Army decided to use the UH-72 Lakota as a training platform. It's a capable aircraft, but there is a reason that no on in the world uses a fancy, hard to fly dual engine aircraft as a trainer. It's a complicated system that challenges experienced aviators who transition to it, it has some wonky flight characteristics, and I can not imagine trying to learn the fundamentals of flying in it.

The reason the Army decided on the UH-72 was it doesn't have a good Army mission to fill, the TH67's they were using are wearing out, and they decided to fill the gap with what they had rather than have a competition to decide on a more appropriate airframe.

Sorry for the rant, but this is one area I have opinions on.

PeterCat fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Aug 22, 2020

# ? Aug 22, 2020 15:18

Howard Phillips: May 4, 2008; His smile; it shines in the darkest of depths. There is hope yet.

Not an aviator or even Army but the latter half of my Navy career was spent as an air defense planning officer on strike group staff on an aircraft carrier and I spent most of my day to day life interacting with Navy and Air Force pilots, and I did not envy them. Even the "cool kids" doing in country dynamic strikes from the Persian Gulf quickly realized how mundane the missions are. Also, tactical aircraft need to refuel pretty much as soon as they takeoff, thus necessitating hordes of air tankers. Not surprising that tanker pilots have the highest burnout rates because they are doing a thankless, boring, and high stress job of doing nothing but Nascar in the sky, constant left turns at single altitude.

Shipboard detachment helo pilots who focus on anti-submarine warfare seem to have more fun than carrier based helos or fixed wing. At least they get away from the bullshit of being on the carrier and dealing with air wing staff bureaucracy, mindless flight cycles wedded to the carrier air ops schedule, and being 1 of 500. The det pilots on the cruisers and destroyers can work with their non pilot ship CO to get more control over their mission, flight hours, and whatnot.

Finally, it baffled me to meet O4 "super JO's" in the Navy air wing. These guys did their initial operational tour, then a tour as a flight instructor, and back in the squadron as a "super JO," aka just another pilot. They screened for promotion to O4 but not career milestone squadron department head billets as OPSO, TRAINO etc... These guys seemed the most disgruntled because despite their aviator skills and experience (and rank) they get no say in the squadron.

I love to hate on pilots but also realize that their world is not as Tom Cruise Top-Gun as it may seem.

# ? Aug 22, 2020 18:21

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

I feel for CAB units a lot more than for Air Force aviators. CAB and air defense are in a race for highest rate of deployment:dwell to Middle East or Korea with barely fixed equipment and barely meeting critical manning and training gates.

USAF pilot complaints are typically closer to the complaints of literally every O to ever exist, which is additional duties and paperwork amd bureaucracy, except with much better promotion rates and living standards than naval aviators and army types. Plus pilot incentive pay in the USAF demolishes Army pilot incentive pay.

# ? Aug 22, 2020 18:27

brains: May 12, 2004

mlmp08 posted:

I feel for CAB units a lot more than for Air Force aviators. CAB and air defense are in a race for highest rate of deployment:dwell to Middle East or Korea with barely fixed equipment and barely meeting critical manning and training gates.

it's this. especially when "dwell" consists of 3 or 4 month-long TDYs per year in support of CTC rotations, a month-long career development school, regionally-aligned missions, firefighting support, DSCA missions, and so on. followed by deployment and repeat. when your officers are averaging 10 out of 12 months away from home over the course of a decade, don't be surprised if the crumbs scraped off the DOD budget table aren't enough to keep them retained in service.

and man do i feel bad for all those THAAD and patriot operators out there who just bounce from deployment site to deployment site on an endless loop, for their entire career.

# ? Aug 22, 2020 23:06

Dream Weaver: Jan 23, 2007; Sweat Baby, sweat baby

brains posted:

it's this. especially when "dwell" consists of 3 or 4 month-long TDYs per year in support of CTC rotations, a month-long career development school, regionally-aligned missions, firefighting support, DSCA missions, and so on. followed by deployment and repeat. when your officers are averaging 10 out of 12 months away from home over the course of a decade, don't be surprised if the crumbs scraped off the DOD budget table aren't enough to keep them retained in service.

and man do i feel bad for all those THAAD and patriot operators out there who just bounce from deployment site to deployment site on an endless loop, for their entire career.

I�m so glad I could get two years of dwell time if I needed it in between my deployments. I�m sure they�re going to ask me to go again shortly due to critical shortages of CA qualified officers but hey. At least I could opt out.

# ? Aug 22, 2020 23:38

AFStealth: Jun 24, 2006; Shut up baby, I know it

mlmp08 posted:

I feel for CAB units a lot more than for Air Force aviators. CAB and air defense are in a race for highest rate of deployment:dwell to Middle East or Korea with barely fixed equipment and barely meeting critical manning and training gates.

USAF pilot complaints are typically closer to the complaints of literally every O to ever exist, which is additional duties and paperwork amd bureaucracy, except with much better promotion rates and living standards than naval aviators and army types. Plus pilot incentive pay in the USAF demolishes Army pilot incentive pay.

Depends a lot on the platform. Fighter pilot types have had less deployments to the ME in the past few years (Though that has ramped up now too). But cargo, ISR, others have a ridiculous dwell ratio, even though on paper it's supposed to be much lower. Pilots run the AF and even we can't keep them in anymore because the ops tempo is insane. This also applies to non-pilot aircrew types, not that the AF cares about us. I always felt bad whenever I worked with apache guys at Army exercises though. They seemed to get constantly poo poo on and at the end of the day they had to go sleep in a tent like everyone else.

# ? Aug 23, 2020 06:22

A Festivus Miracle: Dec 19, 2012; I have come to discourse on the profound inequities of the American political system.

One of my distant cousins is an Air Force fighter pilot. When he first commissioned, he came home at Christmas showing off a video of him flying and poo poo. He clearly really enjoyed it...at first. I really only see this dude at Christmas, and it's been about four years since he commissioned. The disillusionment has been palpable. Last time I saw him, I asked him if he was gonna re-up (or whatever the term is. Recomission?) and his response was "I'd rather be dipped head first into poo poo than do another eight years of this loving garbage."

# ? Aug 23, 2020 09:11

brains: May 12, 2004

A White Guy posted:

One of my distant cousins is an Air Force fighter pilot. When he first commissioned, he came home at Christmas showing off a video of him flying and poo poo. He clearly really enjoyed it...at first. I really only see this dude at Christmas, and it's been about four years since he commissioned. The disillusionment has been palpable. Last time I saw him, I asked him if he was gonna re-up (or whatever the term is. Recomission?) and his response was "I'd rather be dipped head first into poo poo than do another eight years of this loving garbage."

obviously the air force only needs to offer him a bit more money, then he'd finally be happy to stay blue forever!

# ? Aug 23, 2020 17:28

Dream Weaver: Jan 23, 2007; Sweat Baby, sweat baby

Anyone else enjoying the new pace of virtual battle assemblies?

# ? Aug 30, 2020 16:25

UP THE BUM NO BABY: Sep 1, 2011; by Hand Knit

What now?

# ? Aug 30, 2020 18:25

Naked Bear: Apr 15, 2007; Boners was recorded before a studio audience that was alive!

Does that mean that instead of yelling "bang" now, you're typing "bang"?

# ? Aug 30, 2020 18:26

Retrowave Joe: Jul 20, 2001

I�m loving it. We haven�t been in person since March, and yet somehow everything still gets accomplished. We get the training schedule and list of due outs a few days prior, and you have to knock em out to get paid.

Most weekends I do about an hour or two of actual work, sit through a couple mandatory briefing Teams calls, and then go on with my day.

Best year in the Reserve by far.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 18:32

UP THE BUM NO BABY: Sep 1, 2011; by Hand Knit

Smoke pot, they aren't going to test you from the sound of it

# ? Aug 30, 2020 19:03

Retrowave Joe: Jul 20, 2001

Oh, I have no doubts that everyone that has pot is smoking. And yet...the mission is still getting completed. Weird, huh?

# ? Aug 30, 2020 19:05

maffew buildings: Apr 29, 2009; too dumb to be probated; not too dumb to be autobanned

My friend who is in some procurement role where as an O-4 he's the lowest ranking guy has grown mutton chops since he's been teleworking for months. Apparently they're also getting everything done and exceeding expectations.

Clearly having everyone in close quarters within standards and allowing some SNCOs to try to gently caress everything up would be better, though.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 19:24

Flying_Crab: Apr 12, 2002

PeterCat posted:

Then he started going on about how there will be a Civil War if Biden is elected.

Report them to Army Counterintelligence or even the FBI if they're legit talking about committing violent acts.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 19:31

Retrowave Joe: Jul 20, 2001

maffew buildings posted:

My friend who is in some procurement role where as an O-4 he's the lowest ranking guy has grown mutton chops since he's been teleworking for months. Apparently they're also getting everything done and exceeding expectations.

Clearly having everyone in close quarters within standards and allowing some SNCOs to try to gently caress everything up would be better, though.

I�ve grown a full on lumberjack beard and haven�t seen or heard from my section SGM in six months. Stress levels are down and morale is up across the board. I probably should�ve turned down AT, but I could use the double-dip.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 21:08

Dream Weaver: Jan 23, 2007; Sweat Baby, sweat baby

I�m thinking that when I�m a commander, I�m going to mandate one BA a year to be a virtual one going forward.
Because gently caress February drill in the northeast. And we already skip January and August.(We do Muta 8-10s twice a year.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 23:48

Retrowave Joe: Jul 20, 2001

Some units are looking at doing one per quarter when this is over. There�s no need to have people come in from all over to do mandatory trainings. Save that for things that have to be done in person.

Semi-related, we tried to get a license for Adobe Sign to use in Teams, but Adobe hasn�t gotten DoD certification yet. Man, if we had that, we could do anything requiring a digital signature in Teams, like training rosters. It�d save a shitload of headache having people email a pdf around.

# ? Aug 31, 2020 01:22

Dream Weaver: Jan 23, 2007; Sweat Baby, sweat baby

It would definitely save my unit money on hotels and food. And me on gas.

# ? Aug 31, 2020 01:41

Mr_Ruckus: Jul 8, 2008

I envy y'all. We did one virtual drill and now they're all in person. Even did our 2 week AT in person. Temp checks at morning formation, had a quarantine barracks and everything.

# ? Aug 31, 2020 03:38

bird food bathtub: Aug 9, 2003; College Slice

Welp, did the best I could. Nephew signed up for DEP. Doesn't ship until middle of next year I think? I was able to sit him down, browbeat some of the stupid out of him, and get him to sign up as diesel mechanic instead of the 68W he wanted to go in as. Partial success in getting an 18 year old to think about the future in even that limited a fashion I suppose.

# ? Aug 31, 2020 07:44

UP THE BUM NO BABY: Sep 1, 2011; by Hand Knit

It's certainly a bit harder to catch the PTSD pumping fuel, and far less likely to be in a helicopter crash

# ? Aug 31, 2020 08:17

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

bird food bathtub posted:

Welp, did the best I could. Nephew signed up for DEP. Doesn't ship until middle of next year I think? I was able to sit him down, browbeat some of the stupid out of him, and get him to sign up as diesel mechanic instead of the 68W he wanted to go in as. Partial success in getting an 18 year old to think about the future in even that limited a fashion I suppose.

I am at a complete loss with my own children. My dad spent an in-ordinate amount of time telling me how crappy the military was and how I should never join. So what did I do the second I got old enough?

Anyway, at this point I'm just trying to steer my own kids towards something that'll actually be a fun MOS (meaning easy/fun training and no "real" deployments), that they can then ets from in 4 years and get an awesome civilian job with.

# ? Aug 31, 2020 20:23

maffew buildings: Apr 29, 2009; too dumb to be probated; not too dumb to be autobanned

The only ok job in the military is the air force one where you hand out towels at the gym

Or at Travis AFB don't hand them out unless the person asking is an O6 or up

# ? Sep 1, 2020 00:35

Carteret: Nov 10, 2012

bird food bathtub posted:

Welp, did the best I could. Nephew signed up for DEP. Doesn't ship until middle of next year I think? I was able to sit him down, browbeat some of the stupid out of him, and get him to sign up as diesel mechanic instead of the 68W he wanted to go in as. Partial success in getting an 18 year old to think about the future in even that limited a fashion I suppose.

Good News: DEP isn't binding regardless of what they told him and he can nope out of his contract before his ship date with no repercussions. They actually make him swear in again!

# ? Sep 1, 2020 00:57

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

maffew buildings posted:

The only ok job in the military is the air force one where you hand out towels at the gym

Or at Travis AFB don't hand them out unless the person asking is an O6 or up

The newish 17 series is pretty sweet.

Basic at Jackson followed by an AIT at Pensacola taught by civilians. A TS clearance and "deployments" of 3 months to DC/LA/Europe/etc. And the contractors you work with daily are the ones who are going to hire you the day you ETS.

# ? Sep 1, 2020 01:05

tyler: Jun 2, 2014

bird food bathtub posted:

Welp, did the best I could. Nephew signed up for DEP. Doesn't ship until middle of next year I think? I was able to sit him down, browbeat some of the stupid out of him, and get him to sign up as diesel mechanic instead of the 68W he wanted to go in as. Partial success in getting an 18 year old to think about the future in even that limited a fashion I suppose.

lol your nephew is a super pog

# ? Sep 1, 2020 03:14

Suntan Boy: May 27, 2005; Stained, dirty, smells like weed, possibly a relic from the sixties.

Mr_Ruckus posted:

I envy y'all. We did one virtual drill and now they're all in person. Even did our 2 week AT in person. Temp checks at morning formation, had a quarantine barracks and everything.

Hunter Liggett? The smoke from the fires was fun, too.

# ? Sep 2, 2020 05:48

My Spirit Otter: Jun 15, 2006; CANADA DOESN'T GET PENS LIKE THIS

SKILCRAFT KREW Reppin' Quality Blind Made American Products. Bitch.

tyler posted:

lol your nephew is a super pog

pog life best life.

my worst day on my pog career course is infinitely better than my best day in regiment as an artilleryman.

# ? Sep 2, 2020 16:42

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:34

Mustang: Jun 18, 2006; “We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

I lucked out by being made the S4 immediately after being a Scout PL because it kept me doing logistics work for the rest of my time in the Army which is considerably easier to translate to something a civilian would understand.

But even better than being a POG is not being in the Army at all.

# ? Sep 2, 2020 17:50

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Marine Thread 2023: A Shiny New 2020 Army Thread for Your Deployment (skip to p12)

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