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As someone who liked Rick & Morty season 1 but stopped when I had my fill and never discussed it online... I'm not feeling the similarities. They're very different types of writing and humor. The similarities are that they're both silly sci-fi shows, that their characters are both following current animation trends, and that they're both somewhat manic—again, following current trends. People are hyper-sensitive to R&M for whatever reason and I think it's leading to them trying to draw a comparison when one isn't organic. Like, it's got just as much in common with Adventure Time or Infinity Train or Final Space as it does R&M.
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Aug 14, 2020 15:22
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Snow Cone Capone posted:I only saw the first season of R&M but I gotta say the art really doesn't strike me as that similar; certainly not enough to justify the number of people out there going "IT'S JUST RICK AND MORTY WITH STAR TREK REFERENCES"] I think this is just how animation goes. Every few years you have a look that a lot of animated shows follow and everyone bemoans the lack of originality but ultimately it's just a look. I don't get a R&M vibe from the show at all. If anything I think it reminds me of Gravity Falls. It just gets the R&M comparison because sci-fi, some zaniness, and it's a popular recent cartoon.
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Aug 14, 2020 15:23
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Snow Cone Capone posted:I only saw the first season of R&M but I gotta say the art really doesn't strike me as that similar; certainly not enough to justify the number of people out there going "IT'S JUST RICK AND MORTY WITH STAR TREK REFERENCES" Yeah other than like "this is how I draw hands" it's almost completely different and I wouldn't have made the connection myself if people hadn't made a big deal about it
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Aug 14, 2020 15:25
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Snow Cone Capone posted:I only saw the first season of R&M but I gotta say the art really doesn't strike me as that similar; certainly not enough to justify the number of people out there going "IT'S JUST RICK AND MORTY WITH STAR TREK REFERENCES" Yeah, honestly, the similarity is mainly in the eyes. And that they both have a very simplistic look and movement style (at least in the foreground characters) that basically kinda like an upgraded version of ye olde flash cartoons.
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Aug 14, 2020 15:25
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Phylodox posted:Wasn’t that kind of how the episode began? She left a drunken Klingon that she knew was a kleptomaniac alone in a shuttle in a dangerous part of town despite Boimler’s repeated admonishments and ended up loving up their whole mission. Yeah, she helped Boimler fix it, but none of it would have happened if it weren’t for her. Except she was never called out on it. The end of the episode is her going "I did a good thing by helping my friend get his confidence back!" and not "Wow, I'm sorry I screwed everything up and got you pretty badly injured because I was more concerned with showing my old friend a good time rather than making sure he got where he needed to go." In order for a good comeuppance episode to happen it would need to end with her a) recognizing that she made a mistake and b) suffering repercussions that she actually cares about.
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Aug 14, 2020 15:27
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The Bloop posted:
What, no
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Aug 14, 2020 15:38
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Arglebargle III posted:What, no Pro-Anti-Banana ray traitor spotted
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Aug 14, 2020 15:40
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The show's lead was a head writer and producer on R&M, and the show gets referenced in interview and press a fair amount when Lower Decks is being discussed. I wouldn't say Lower Decks is a clone of R&M, but maybe cousins is accurate. Maybe something like the relationship of Disenchantment to Futurama -- even that connection may be too similar compared to LDS<->R&M -- where if you're describing it you would probably say "it's in the vein of Futurama but fantasy". You might say LDS is in the vein of R&M, you wouldn't say "LDS is in the vein of The Simpsons". That being said I wouldn't say that and I'd say Lower Decks is just it's own animated show with writing somewhat reminiscent of R&M but without the impact (of the writing, not the show).
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Aug 14, 2020 15:41
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piratepilates posted:That being said I wouldn't say that and I'd say Lower Decks is just it's own animated show with writing somewhat reminiscent of R&M but without the impact (of the writing, not the show). I guess this is the part I can't see yet. The only similarity the writing shares with what I remember of R&M is that there's a big annoying supergenius character. But I mean, I have to stress this is a super small sample size. For all I know episode 3 is the PICKARD RICK episode
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Aug 14, 2020 15:44
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Some people would be real surprised to find out there are cartoons other than Rick and Morty. Dozens of them, in fact! 
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Aug 14, 2020 16:19
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Grand Fromage posted:Some people would be real surprised to find out there are cartoons other than Rick and Morty. Dozens of them, in fact! rick and morty isn't even the first!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF8faYSW_7A some reports say there are in fact other cartoons out there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbrwRcwtO_k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcMFHRXp8xM
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Aug 14, 2020 16:22
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There are only three types of cartoons. Proto-Rick and Morty which evolved into Rick and Morty which spawned Rick and Morty knockoffs Check mate 
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Aug 14, 2020 16:23
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Technowolf posted:Except she was never called out on it. The end of the episode is her going "I did a good thing by helping my friend get his confidence back!" and not "Wow, I'm sorry I screwed everything up and got you pretty badly injured because I was more concerned with showing my old friend a good time rather than making sure he got where he needed to go." She immediately got called out on it and spent the rest of the episode trying to fix it. The difference between Mariner and Boimler is pretty prominent in this episode; Boimler thinks knowledge comes from reading and studying and, when he fails, immediately crumples and gives up, while Mariner learns from experience and, when she fails, uses it as an opportunity to learn and improve, hence how she’s so competent now. If you’re expecting a big, explicit, dramatic resolution I don’t know if this show is going to satisfy you. It seems pretty light and breezy so far.
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Aug 14, 2020 16:25
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Martytoof posted:There are only three types of cartoons. Hmm. I suppose your IQ is high enough to understand.
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Aug 14, 2020 16:29
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Martytoof posted:Proto-Rick and Morty which evolved into So you're saying Star Trek the Animated Series evolved into Rick & Morty which evolved into Lower Decks? Which would make LD a direct ancestor to TAS which everyone hails as a great successor to TOS? Checkmate indeed!
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Aug 14, 2020 16:47
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I think the big thing here is are the characters going to grow as time goes on. You can have Boilmer be an uptight nerd but maybe have him be more confident as time goes on or have Mariner still be rebellious but mature. And it looks like they may try and show growth as time goes on? Also, in the vein of trek I liked how the crew was accepting of and encouraging of Rutherford's career transfers. Feels very in the vein of Star Trek but still its own thing for the show.
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Aug 14, 2020 16:50
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Phylodox posted:Wasn’t that kind of how the episode began? She left a drunken Klingon that she knew was a kleptomaniac alone in a shuttle in a dangerous part of town despite Boimler’s repeated admonishments and ended up loving up their whole mission. Yeah, she helped Boimler fix it, but none of it would have happened if it weren’t for her. I'm getting the feeling that Mariner is going to be both the cause, and solution, to most of story arcs. Which can get really boring fairly fast.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:00
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BexGu posted:I'm getting the feeling that Mariner is going to be both the cause, and solution, to most of story arcs. Which can get really boring fairly fast. This is episode two. I don’t think we can infer much from this except that they’re firmly establishing the dominant traits of their main characters. You have to establish a baseline before you can start implementing change, and that’s going to take more than just a pilot.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:28
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Star Trek fandom is now inventing ever-more-bizarre taxonomies of cartoon shows.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:28
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E2 is more Futurama than Rick & Morty
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Aug 14, 2020 17:36
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Is this the Mummies Alive thread?
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Aug 14, 2020 17:38
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piratepilates posted:The show's lead was a head writer and producer on R&M, and the show gets referenced in interview and press a fair amount when Lower Decks is being discussed. I wouldn't say Lower Decks is a clone of R&M, but maybe cousins is accurate. Sure, but what I'm (and I think a lot of people at least ITT are) referencing is the art/animation style. The show's lead wrote for R&M but had nothing to do with the art. The comparisons of Futurama/Simpsons/Disenchantment are valid writing-wise, but as far as art, it is, if not the same exact animators, a very deliberate repetition of the style established by the Simpsons animators. I would say that there is merit to discussing the similarity in writing between LDS and R&M (and between LDS and Futurama), but not the animation, at all. And it does seem like a lot of the negative reviews I've seen elsewhere specify that the animation looks just like R&M which isn't true in the slightest, IMO.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:39
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Technowolf posted:Except she was never called out on it. The end of the episode is her going "I did a good thing by helping my friend get his confidence back!" and not "Wow, I'm sorry I screwed everything up and got you pretty badly injured because I was more concerned with showing my old friend a good time rather than making sure he got where he needed to go." To be fair, the one single thing she actually did that threw her own plan off was not knowing about the ion field blocking comms/transporters. I don't think there needs to be a big dramatic arc where she gets her comeuppance, but I do think there should (and I believe there will be) at least one episode where the dynamic is reversed; Mariner gets the gang in over their heads by being a know-it-all, and Boimler's book smarts gets them out of it. That's all it really takes - you hit the note that Mariner isn't perfect, and you hit the note that Boimler isn't worthless, just oblivious and whiny.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:44
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Yeah, with the ensign team-ups being the same in the second episode I was really expecting them to flip the dynamic. I think it'd go a long way to fixing people's complaints with both characters. As it stands having Mariner get two wins in a row makes it feel like the show is endorsing her point of view.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:48
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am I the only one who laughed at the "Combat Simulation: Smorgasborg" gag I am aren't I
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Aug 14, 2020 18:31
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I'm enjoying the show so far as it actually hit on my criteria. Character focused, dealing with moral dilemmas, highlighting the complexities of interacting with diverse cultures, all while maintaining a similar look/feel to TNG era trek all while bringing something slightly new to the table of having the perspective of non-senior officer characters. The show clearly has a yet be explored backstory about the hyperactive rule breaking ensign that likely explains her behavior. This is actually the best trek in decades but again that was a low bar to get over. G-III fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Aug 14, 2020 |
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Aug 14, 2020 18:49
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Nodosaur posted:am I the only one who laughed at the "Combat Simulation: Smorgasborg" gag Hell no I got a good laugh out of most of the episode 
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Aug 14, 2020 18:54
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Nodosaur posted:am I the only one who laughed at the "Combat Simulation: Smorgasborg" gag No, I loved it. I've seen Lower Decks get a lot of hate from the Neckbeard Elite, but I've genuinely enjoyed the first couple of episodes. I like that there's a goofy cartoon set in the Star Trek universe. I mean, every time Not Cyborg tells his boss that he wants to change departments, he's confronted with commanders who are so unselfish that they immediately celebrate his decision, because they just want him to be happy. Weird energy being just enter your ship and start talking all threatening-like? C'mon, we've all seen this before; stuff it in a Triple-Phlebotinum-Plated Storage Pod before it zaps you. It's not deep, but it's fun. I mean, I have a bunch of popcorn in the house that ain't gonna eat itself.
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Aug 14, 2020 19:30
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At this point a new Trek show that's fun to watch is an achievement.
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Aug 14, 2020 19:40
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Finally caved and watch the first episode, it's a series of 30-second Twitter jokes stretched out into a show. I am glad it's not cripplingly depressive like the live-action stuff but there's really nothing much to say about it except that it isn't nearly as funny as it wants to be or thinks it is. It looks and sounds alright too I guess which is nice for a cartoon I suppose but... Yeah. It definitely made me miss the Orville. Trek ain't nothing but a brand now. E: I never kept up with modern animation much except for some episodes of American Dad, and I never got into Futurama back in the day so I have nothing really to compare this to.
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Aug 14, 2020 19:54
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feedmyleg posted:Yeah, with the ensign team-ups being the same in the second episode I was really expecting them to flip the dynamic. I think it'd go a long way to fixing people's complaints with both characters. As it stands having Mariner get two wins in a row makes it feel like the show is endorsing her point of view. This is exactly my feeling too. Snow Cone Capone posted:
I really hope there is.
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Aug 14, 2020 20:05
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Edit: wrong person. The_Doctor fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Aug 14, 2020 |
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Aug 14, 2020 20:10
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Alchenar posted:Boimler's line "what do you mean back in the day, we're the same age?" was funny but also drove home a conceit the show is going to repeatedly ask us to overlook - Mariner is simultaneously young and rebellious and is world-wise and experienced. It's a problem in that episode's plot enough that they bothered to face it head on, but I can see it getting old. I think her character makes a lot more sense with the reveal that she's the daughter of a captain and an admiral. She's a Starfleet brat who has been immersed in this stuff since she was a foetus. She probably saw energy beings while she was taking pre-K on a Galaxy Class and had to hide from a Salt Vampire during a high school field trip to Beta Virginis IX or whatever. The pressure to get into the "family business" was probably immeasurable and my read is she did well enough for a time (she was probably an Lt maybe even LtCdr?) but then came to the realization she was spending her best years living the lives her parents wanted for her and decided that she wasn't going to spend her 20's constrained by the stuffy rails of the officer command track and rebelled and got reassigned, busted down. But she's not a quitter so she won't just resign and admit to being a "failure" rather than too aloof and cool for it, and her connections keep her from getting dismissed. It's turned up to 11 for cartoon reasons, but it's actually a reasonably compelling character by the standards of the Stock Starfleet Officers we're used to. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Aug 14, 2020 |
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Aug 14, 2020 20:23
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I'm enjoying it anyways. It's got a few chuckles out of me and at least it's lighthearted.
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Aug 14, 2020 20:31
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Delthalaz posted:E2 is more Futurama than Rick & Morty
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Aug 14, 2020 20:31
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The Bloop posted:
Resurrecting an old post for an off-topic comment, but I really hope "foldable screen" tech ends up going in this direction for phones. Something that rolls up into a tube, no more rectangles filling up our pockets.
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Aug 14, 2020 20:48
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NZAmoeba posted:Resurrecting an old post for an off-topic comment, but I really hope "foldable screen" tech ends up going in this direction for phones. Something that rolls up into a tube, no more rectangles filling up our pockets. Essentially mediatronic paper a la Diamond Age Someday, for sure, if we don't kill our collective selves before then
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Aug 14, 2020 22:36
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The Bloop posted:Essentially mediatronic paper a la Diamond Age Outlook not so good. Hopefully the Vulcans show up sooner than later. Thought it would probably go down more like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9TdvN07ZWI
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Aug 14, 2020 22:42
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Martytoof posted:There are only three types of cartoons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlLODaZWP2M For starters, let me introduce you to an animated show that's superior to Rick and Morty in every conceivable way.:p As for episode 2, I like the cast, and even "Did they completely forget the Wesley Crusher hate?" Mariner is starting to grow on me. Seriously loved Sam Rutherford side quest and glad the command teams seems like pretty good people despite of the shenanigans. I'm also glad we got proper Klingons and Ferrengi back.
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Aug 15, 2020 01:46
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The Bloop posted:Essentially mediatronic paper a la Diamond Age Firefly had that too, I thought it was a good design. 
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Aug 15, 2020 01:57
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