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Archaeologists looking at cryonics: wtf this guy must have REALLY loved tuna
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Aug 15, 2020 16:45
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The rivers are a huge factor that often gets overlooked in wheelchat. North America has more rivers and lakes than Europe because of the glacial retreat. Building a wheeled cart is pretty stupid when you can just sent a raft of goods down the Mississippi or the Colorado and then canoe and portage back. Also, many of the Plains and Sioux First Nations were semi-nomadic, and building roads is a lot more trouble when your people don't live in one fixed location all year.
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Aug 15, 2020 17:27
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SlothfulCobra posted:There are laws about disposal of human remains. Dunno what exactly they are though. Probably not allowed unless the land is privately owned, definitely none of it in protected areas like a national park. There's plenty of isolated places in the world. If you wanted to be naturally preserved and didn't want to be found for a few thousand years I think the best bet would be to get stashed somewhere in one of the mountain ranges in the Sahara, such as the Tibesti.
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Aug 15, 2020 18:06
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If I was free to be an insane rich person like Elon Musk you can bet I'd be buying myself an ancient egyptian nobility burial, except my grave goods will be like, warhammer models and a sweet gaming rig. The hieroglyphs will be translations of my SA posts and most popular tweets. Also, wikipedia posted:The dogs were quite able to appreciate the lapse of time, and, if not relieved from their toils at the proper hour, would leap out of the wheel without orders, and force their companions to take their place, and complete their portion of the daily toil.
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Aug 15, 2020 21:46
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Chamale posted:The rivers are a huge factor that often gets overlooked in wheelchat. North America has more rivers and lakes than Europe because of the glacial retreat. Building a wheeled cart is pretty stupid when you can just sent a raft of goods down the Mississippi or the Colorado and then canoe and portage back. I was under the impression that most of the plains tribes used to be part of the sedentary Mississippi valley civilization.
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Aug 16, 2020 02:32
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Chamale posted:The rivers are a huge factor that often gets overlooked in wheelchat. North America has more rivers and lakes than Europe because of the glacial retreat. Building a wheeled cart is pretty stupid when you can just sent a raft of goods down the Mississippi or the Colorado and then canoe and portage back. In general the Colorado was only a corridor in the west, away from the Grand Canyon, where Yuman speaking groups had a wide array of boats. Outside that, there is very, very little evidence for boating, even in areas it was expected. Yuman peoples may have also gone up the Gila, but it seems east west was mostly foot trade. Look up the Hohokam Burden Basket Carrier Motif for an artistic depiction from the early period of widespread trade from a culture that should have boats, but with no evidence they actually did. We do have ample evidence of foot trade however, which appears to be the major way people moved things. Some trails did follow rivers, but there is such a paucity of direct and indirect evidence for boating. Lots of stories about walking and histories about walking though. The only story I am aware of is Hopi and involves a mythic hero sailing on a raft down the Colorado to the coast (Puerto Peñasco area maybe if a historic event). It is framed as an epic saga in an anytime however, a huge deal and not really suggested to be a replicated event. Also couldn't find and haven't heard of, any finds of boats in the Grand Canyon, where there are enough dry caves that we have a lot of artifacts from that area we wouldn't find otherwise. I bring this up because it has implications for the exact nature of trade networks in the region. And a big part of it is that the rivers are quite narrow or filled with rapids in most places. The overland trade's scope becomes more impressive, because it involves goods from as far away as Jalisco being found outside Cortez, Colorado. It also limits the speed of travel, but that doesn't seem to be a huge issue. Also, lots of stopovers. Population density and spread on the landscape in the US Southwest was far greater back then than you would think. You were typically no more than a days walk from a settlement cluster at the most remote. Totally true that river boating was important on the eastern rivers though, including the reaches of them on the Plains. Also the Pacific Coast. KiteAuraan fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Aug 16, 2020 |
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Aug 16, 2020 05:16
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Libluini posted:South America also has huge, long and navigable rivers. There are also lots of mountains and stuff like rain forests that are really hard to cross. If you have that kind of terrain, wheels just seem like a bad idea. And without people making wheels, you never find out that wheels are good for lots of stuff besides transporting things. Transmetropolitan has a fun take on cryonics. Even in an almost best case scenario, you're waking up alone and completely out of your depth in a future that likely moved on long ago. Arglebargle III posted:Roman landscape art: I love the little bird.
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Aug 16, 2020 06:32
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:If I was free to be an insane rich person like Elon Musk you can bet I'd be buying myself an ancient egyptian nobility burial, except my grave goods will be like, warhammer models and a sweet gaming rig. The hieroglyphs will be translations of my SA posts and most popular tweets. You know what happened to the ancient egyptian tombs? (They were robbed  )
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Aug 16, 2020 08:55
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Alhazred posted:You know what happened to the ancient egyptian tombs? (They were robbed There would obviously be some great curses involved, but a good robbery would make it legendary.
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Aug 16, 2020 09:23
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Alhazred posted:You know what happened to the ancient egyptian tombs? (They were robbed There have been incredible strides in the field of booby traps over the last 5,000 years.
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Aug 16, 2020 12:13
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Alhazred posted:You know what happened to the ancient egyptian tombs? (They were robbed That's not a negative. My tomb gets robbed. I define a generation, a civilization even. Where's the downside? My dumbass dead guy opinions live on and my mouse from 2014 is stored in a museum.
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Aug 16, 2020 12:50
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King Tut: The original Goon.
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Aug 16, 2020 13:07
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:That's not a negative. My tomb gets robbed. I define a generation, a civilization even. Where's the downside? My dumbass dead guy opinions live on and my mouse from 2014 is stored in a museum. You wake up and then have to hang out with Ben Stiller
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Aug 16, 2020 13:45
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2nd century Gallo-Roman earrings:
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Aug 16, 2020 15:26
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The bottom stones are clearly Egyptian emeralds (their mines produced a lot of material, mostly of very low quality by modern standards. There are still some there but they're just too low quality to matter in the moderb market). Presumably the red are garnets, but I wonder what the transparent green cabochons are. Maybe just glass.
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Aug 16, 2020 16:58
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:That's not a negative. My tomb gets robbed. I define a generation, a civilization even. Where's the downside? My dumbass dead guy opinions live on and my mouse from 2014 is stored in a museum. I think you seriously overstate the importance of your stuff. The grave of king Tut was an extremely important find and it didn't define anything. It caused a short period of time where ancient Egypt was considered fashionable, that's it.
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Aug 16, 2020 17:05
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galagazombie posted:King Tut: The original Goon. Nah, Akhenaten was the original goon.
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Aug 16, 2020 17:28
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:That's not a negative. My tomb gets robbed. I define a generation, a civilization even. Where's the downside? My dumbass dead guy opinions live on and my mouse from 2014 is stored in a museum. You wouldn't get robbed in a hundred years, you'd get robbed in 5. Maybe even while the tomb is being built and stocked if the contractor has any sense.
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Aug 16, 2020 17:29
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Alhazred posted:I think you seriously overstate the importance of your stuff. The grave of king Tut was an extremely important find and it didn't define anything. It caused a short period of time where ancient Egypt was considered fashionable, that's it.
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Aug 16, 2020 17:37
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SlothfulCobra posted:You wouldn't get robbed in a hundred years, you'd get robbed in 5. Maybe even while the tomb is being built and stocked if the contractor has any sense. Yeah, people who wants to build a remote tomb full of valuable stuff is placing a lot of (unearned) trust in the guys who's building the tomb.
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Aug 16, 2020 18:00
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Alhazred posted:I think you seriously overstate the importance of your stuff. The grave of king Tut was an extremely important find and it didn't define anything. It caused a short period of time where ancient Egypt was considered fashionable, that's it. I strongly disagree. Ask people to picture ancient Egyptian treasure and 90% of people are going to immediately picture Tutankhamen's burial mask and so on. That discovery totally defined how most people look at ancient Egypt and has for the past 100 years. On the other hand, that relies on your tomb getting discovered like 1,000 years later by archaeologists who show it to the world, not by looters who set fire to the entire thing to make it easier to loot and sell it as melted down gold scrap completely disassociated from its original context.
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Aug 16, 2020 18:47
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that's one of the bits that stuck out to me from that ancient Egyptian court transcript from the trial of a tomb robber. One of the first things they did when they got inside was burn the mummy to aid removal of any precious trinkets that might have been stashed in this or that cavity.
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Aug 16, 2020 19:03
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Koramei posted:I strongly disagree. Ask people to picture ancient Egyptian treasure and 90% of people are going to immediately picture Tutankhamen's burial mask and so on. That discovery totally defined how most people look at ancient Egypt and has for the past 100 years. Honestly, I think that Cleopatra had a much bigger cultural impact.
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Aug 16, 2020 19:10
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Alhazred posted:I think you seriously overstate the importance of your stuff. The grave of king Tut was an extremely important find and it didn't define anything. It caused a short period of time where ancient Egypt was considered fashionable, that's it. Every insane rich rear end in a top hat has to roll the dice. The plan isn't to overstate importance so much as to hedge my bets, and also fulfill the dreams of kid me.
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Aug 16, 2020 19:12
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Every insane rich rear end in a top hat has to roll the dice. The plan isn't to overstate importance so much as to hedge my bets, and also fulfill the dreams of kid me. There are cheaper ways. All Halfdan did was to carve in some runes on the walls of Hagia Sophia and by that he made sure that people knew his name centuries after he died.
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Aug 16, 2020 19:16
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Alhazred posted:Honestly, I think that Cleopatra had a much bigger cultural impact. I think Shakespeare and Elizabeth Taylor had a huge impact on how we view Egyptian history / ancient history at large, sure. I think the actual cultural impact of the real Cleopatra is pretty negligible compared to the treasures of Tutankhamen though.
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Aug 16, 2020 19:20
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Clearly you just murder your contractor and anyone involved in your tombs construction.
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Aug 16, 2020 19:20
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:Clearly you just murder your contractor and anyone involved in your tombs construction. quote:When Gao Huan died, his son Gao Cheng ... made a pretense of burying his father elsewhere and then secretly carved a grotto on the side of a cave in Gushan, placed the coffin inside, and saeled it, upon which the son had all the workers executed. Following the fall of Northern Qi, the son of one of those workers removed the stone that sealed the burial, took gold from inside the tomb, and fled.
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Aug 16, 2020 19:22
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I wish it were possible to know, but I wonder just how many of the Pharaohs tombs were robbed by the very workers who built them. They pretty much all got robbed, but we really can't know how long after they were built. It's easy to imagine a man suffering economic hardship deciding feeding his family is more important than some jackoffs monument to himself and leading his drinking buddies to the tomb to help him clear it out.
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Aug 16, 2020 19:23
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Egyptian history isn't really my thing, but one of the things I found the most striking from the Egyptian history podcast is how apparently--from what we can ascertain today, which is obviously difficult wrt: the thoughts of peasants 4,000 years ago--they didn't really think of the tombs and such as monuments for vanity's sake on the part of the king. Being a worker that helped build a pyramid meant you got to be buried in close proximity to the dead king, which was like, the most coveted thing you could ask for, since it ensured a better afterlife for you. Likewise by protecting them after death with these monuments and stuff, you were literally helping to save the world (since the king protected it) as it was conceived in by ancient Egyptian theology. It really makes me wonder when people actually did get so desperate as to just discard all that and loot it anyway. I think the king-centered cult was particularly strong in the Old Kingdom? So maybe as the centuries passed the inhibitions faded away. I guess it would be interesting to see how long the sites remained sacred for, yeah. It's also pretty incredible how many sites actually do seem to survive with the treasure intact--obvious tombs seem to have almost universally been looted, but burial mounds quite often stay intact. A determined peasant in medieval Gyeongju would find several lifetime's worth of treasures if they spent a couple of years digging into one of the Silla burial mounds to get to it, and yet they all just left the cultural memory and were thought of as hills. Koramei fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Aug 16, 2020 |
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Aug 16, 2020 19:32
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Koramei posted:
They got hungry. I’d loot the Smithsonians aircraft collection for scrap aluminum if it meant my children didn’t go hungry.
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Aug 16, 2020 20:14
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skasion posted:They pound up in a mortar a certain plant called omomi at the same time invoking Hades and Darkness; then they mix it with the blood of a wolf that has been sacrificed, and carry it out and cast it into a place where the sun never shines. heh
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Aug 16, 2020 21:32
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LingcodKilla posted:They got hungry. I’d loot the Smithsonians aircraft collection for scrap aluminum if it meant my children didn’t go hungry. I reckon if Bill Gates built a tomb there'd be ppl who'd consider it a sacrosanct monument to capitalism and ppl who'd loot the hell out of it given a moment's opportunity.
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Aug 17, 2020 01:30
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re: wheels: they have other uses than just transporting, eg. potter's wheels
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Aug 17, 2020 02:21
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You’re all overthinking things. Liquidate assets, buy bitcoin, memorize wallet key. Boom, you’ve taken your wealth to the grave
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Aug 17, 2020 02:53
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ChubbyChecker posted:re: wheels: they have other uses than just transporting, eg. potter's wheels Seems they aren't all that needed to specialize. I know Post-Classic Mesoamerica had organized workshops that kept large areas supplied without the wheel, and the Hohokam of what is now Arizona and north Sonora had part time specialists who seem to be based in extended family households, supplying decorated ceramics to as many as 30,000 people in an area stretching from modern Phoenix and Lake Roosevelt, south to Tucson and Safford. While wheels certainly speed up production, they don't seem to have been experimented with and in most places the existing technology was more than capable, so why spend the time?
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Aug 17, 2020 03:01
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CommunityEdition posted:You’re all overthinking things. Liquidate assets, buy bitcoin, memorize wallet key. Boom, you’ve taken your wealth to the grave I'm gonna trust the elaborate network of deadly traps in my pyramid over bitcoin keeping its value indefinitely, thank you very much
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Aug 17, 2020 03:03
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CommunityEdition posted:You’re all overthinking things. Liquidate assets, buy bitcoin, memorize wallet key. Boom, you’ve taken your wealth to the grave techno viking funeral
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Aug 17, 2020 03:19
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What if I put my tomb in a cometary orbit than only comes near earth every 300 years?
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Aug 17, 2020 03:45
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KiteAuraan posted:Seems they aren't all that needed to specialize. I know Post-Classic Mesoamerica had organized workshops that kept large areas supplied without the wheel, and the Hohokam of what is now Arizona and north Sonora had part time specialists who seem to be based in extended family households, supplying decorated ceramics to as many as 30,000 people in an area stretching from modern Phoenix and Lake Roosevelt, south to Tucson and Safford. While wheels certainly speed up production, they don't seem to have been experimented with and in most places the existing technology was more than capable, so why spend the time? It's fascinating to see what was done without the advantage of the wheel. At it's height, Teotihuacán hosted 150,000 residents, with an economy largely based on obsidian and ceramic handicrafts (as well as farming). They used a mixture of coil and slab techniques, as well as molds, to create an amazing pottery tradition.
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Aug 17, 2020 03:55
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