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Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011
I mean, we can't rule out that BwaBD has 1080p footage of a man, who believes that anything more than minimum coverage is for suckers, brutally running over BwaBD's family in his fully paid off Hummer towing his fully paid off power boat named "Ne$$$t Egg" while backing out of the driveway of his fully paid off second home.

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Skunkduster
Jul 15, 2005




bird with big dick posted:

Because it's only 100 grand.


I'll understand if this is too personal to answer, but I'm curious what happened that $100K won't cover?

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

SkunkDuster posted:

I'll understand if this is too personal to answer, but I'm curious what happened that $100K won't cover?

Lol you go to the hospital by ambulance with a broken leg that needs surgery, that’s $100k easy :911:

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Dead Reckoning posted:

I mean, we can't rule out that BwaBD has 1080p footage of a man, who believes that anything more than minimum coverage is for suckers, brutally running over BwaBD's family in his fully paid off Hummer towing his fully paid off power boat named "Ne$$$t Egg" while backing out of the driveway of his fully paid off second home.

In this situation the man is an elected judge and BwaBD is out of luck.

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

Leperflesh posted:

this is pretty much the reason I'm still in the thread so you have at least one rapt reader

speaking of which,

millions of american homes are now months behind on their mortgages, but banks so far have not been foreclosing, either because of local/state/federal rules prohibiting it, or because they don't want to trigger a housing market collapse/crisis that would crush the book value of their mortgage holdings

what if, hypothetically, a bunch of banks just... never foreclosed on delinquent mortgages, for years? Would there ever be some point where the occupant/title holder/debtor could say "welp this debt is effectively forgiven because the lender has never bothered to try to collect on it" and now they just own the home outright? Or, can the bank show up any arbitrary point in the future and demand payment per the original terms?

In Texas, the statute of limitations to foreclose on a default on a mortgage is 4 years: CPRC § 16.035(a). A section I'm very familiar with.

Banks have 4 years to foreclose on a property. At 4 years and 1 day, the homeowner can bring a Suit to Quiet Title to remove the mortgage lien, on the basis that limitations has run, and get free, clear title to the property.

IDK what the gently caress Maryland is on about.

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

I think in Utah it's six or seven years after the last missed payment, whatever the SOL for contract claims is, but you can only foreclose for the amount of missed payments/principal that's within the SOL. So on a 30-year mortgage the bank has 36 years to foreclose if you never make a payment. If you make the first half, they'd have 21 years to foreclose from when you stopped making payments.

I think. I could be completely wrong, it's been a while since I've looked at this.

Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

blarzgh posted:

In Texas, the statute of limitations to foreclose on a default on a mortgage is 4 years: CPRC § 16.035(a). A section I'm very familiar with.

Banks have 4 years to foreclose on a property. At 4 years and 1 day, the homeowner can bring a Suit to Quiet Title to remove the mortgage lien, on the basis that limitations has run, and get free, clear title to the property.

IDK what the gently caress Maryland is on about.

I'm learning that laws among states are a wild west of inconsistencies and bizarre holdings

Also, if you get your mortgage holder to deposit a check with the right magic words, you can get your mortgage paid off

quote:

If the mortgagee negotiates, without protest, a check with words similar to “full and final satisfaction of the debt” and the check is for less than the amount owed, the debt may be considered paid in full. Hixson v.Cox, 633 S.W.2d 330 (Tex. App.—Dallas 1982, writref’d n.r.e.) and Borland v. Mundaca Investment, 978S.W.2d 146 (Tex. App.—Houston [1st Dist.] 1998, no writ).

pseudanonymous
Aug 30, 2008

When you make the second entry and the debits and credits balance, and you blow them to hell.

Devor posted:

I'm learning that laws among states are a wild west of inconsistencies and bizarre holdings

Also, if you get your mortgage holder to deposit a check with the right magic words, you can get your mortgage paid off

Yeah their was a solid episode of Night Court that is controlling in such cases.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

SkunkDuster posted:

I'll understand if this is too personal to answer, but I'm curious what happened that $100K won't cover?

Oh hell, even over here in the civilized world where hospital bills aren't a thing, an accident that prevents someone being able to work for a couple of years can easily hit that amount.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

Phil Moscowitz posted:

Lol you go to the hospital by ambulance with a broken leg that needs surgery, that’s $100k easy :911:

Ambulances are practically free, life flights are where the real money is.

I wonder if anyone has ever been in a small rural hospital and gotten life flighted to the big regional hospital and they looked at the injuries and said “lol no thanks this is not for us” and then they got life flighted a second time to the closest enormous University hospital.

That would be pretty crazy.

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

Devor posted:

I'm learning that laws among states are a wild west of inconsistencies and bizarre holdings

The United States is kind of like the Former Ugoslav Republic, but in reverse, times 10. We used to be practically 50 independent countries, and now we are a single one. And every one has unique populations, resources, agriculture, climate, elevation, history, etc.

Its not actually that surprising that the laws vary like they do.

Nonexistence
Jan 6, 2014

bird with big dick posted:

Ambulances are practically free, life flights are where the real money is.

I wonder if anyone has ever been in a small rural hospital and gotten life flighted to the big regional hospital and they looked at the injuries and said “lol no thanks this is not for us” and then they got life flighted a second time to the closest enormous University hospital.

That would be pretty crazy.

Assuming this is what happened to you, I regularly see plaintiff's attorneys negotiate $50k+ air vac bills down to a couple grand. Air vac toes the line on "pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered" in terms of being lucrative and will generally cave in the face of pushback that might lead to publicity that might inspire statutory curbing of their bullshit.

therobit
Aug 19, 2008

I've been tryin' to speak with you for a long time

blarzgh posted:

In Texas, the statute of limitations to foreclose on a default on a mortgage is 4 years: CPRC § 16.035(a). A section I'm very familiar with.

Banks have 4 years to foreclose on a property. At 4 years and 1 day, the homeowner can bring a Suit to Quiet Title to remove the mortgage lien, on the basis that limitations has run, and get free, clear title to the property.

IDK what the gently caress Maryland is on about.

Can you expound on some uniquely Texas Law for us? I tangentially interact with real property title rules in TX and probably have a bunch of incorrect assumptions around them property law. I also have formed impressions that are probably wrong that only the government can garnish wages in Texas, that Texas protects tools of the trade more than other states through bankruptcy court, and that there is no zoning law at all in Texas so if the neighbors sell their house you can wind up with a Taco Bell drive through 2 feet from your front door.

mercenarynuker
Sep 10, 2008

therobit posted:

Can you expound on some uniquely Texas Law for us? I tangentially interact with real property title rules in TX and probably have a bunch of incorrect assumptions around them property law. I also have formed impressions that are probably wrong that only the government can garnish wages in Texas, that Texas protects tools of the trade more than other states through bankruptcy court, and that there is no zoning law at all in Texas so if the neighbors sell their house you can wind up with a Taco Bell drive through 2 feet from your front door.

3 Olives would be piiiiiiiiiiissed

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

therobit posted:

Can you expound on some uniquely Texas Law for us? I tangentially interact with real property title rules in TX and probably have a bunch of incorrect assumptions around them property law. I also have formed impressions that are probably wrong that only the government can garnish wages in Texas, that Texas protects tools of the trade more than other states through bankruptcy court, and that there is no zoning law at all in Texas so if the neighbors sell their house you can wind up with a Taco Bell drive through 2 feet from your front door.

I can answer specific questions, but I'm not familiar enough with other state's property laws to list out things that are different here.

As for bankruptcy and judgment collection, the Texas constitution has a list of assets that are exempt from garnishment which is known as being substantially larger and longer than other states.

Texas absolutely has zoning laws, however. They are created and enforced by cities, and, to a lesser extent, counties. If you live in city limits in Texas, your property is probably zoned.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Houston doesn’t have zoning (and it shows)

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

euphronius posted:

Houston doesn’t have zoning (and it shows)

True and a notable exception.

Houston does, however, use rules for subdividing and platting to create sort of a "soft" zoning situation.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

SkunkDuster posted:

I'll understand if this is too personal to answer, but I'm curious what happened that $100K won't cover?

Little personal anecdote: my older sister worked as an administrator at a preschool. One day, she tripped while climbing over one of those doorway baby fences and broke her foot. Just a little bone in her foot. Of course, that made it a workers' comp claim while she was out of work for what she assumed would be a few weeks at most.

Unfortunately, while the bone eventually knit, she developed Chronic Pain Syndrome (CPS). She's in pain constantly. They went through various drugs, tried a surgery, put in a nerve block, etc. but nothing has really worked. She's basically crippled for life and in so much pain/on drugs that she can't work, plus you know, psychological damage (she was her family's only breadwinner because her husband is paralyzed, both her sons are special needs kids, the whole situation is tragic and awful). Her workers' comp claim is now a lawsuit in which she is attempting to recover a lifetime of lost wages plus medical costs. I don't know the exact number they're shooting for but I'm fairy sure it's in the low seven figures.

Anyway tl;dr, any injury can lead to a million-plus-dollar medical/lost-wages claim. Even a seemingly minor one can lead to complications. $100k is not very much money if an accident victim is just a little bit unlucky.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Leperflesh posted:

Little personal anecdote: my older sister worked as an administrator at a preschool. One day, she tripped while climbing over one of those doorway baby fences and broke her foot. Just a little bone in her foot. Of course, that made it a workers' comp claim while she was out of work for what she assumed would be a few weeks at most.

Unfortunately, while the bone eventually knit, she developed Chronic Pain Syndrome (CPS). She's in pain constantly. They went through various drugs, tried a surgery, put in a nerve block, etc. but nothing has really worked. She's basically crippled for life and in so much pain/on drugs that she can't work, plus you know, psychological damage (she was her family's only breadwinner because her husband is paralyzed, both her sons are special needs kids, the whole situation is tragic and awful). Her workers' comp claim is now a lawsuit in which she is attempting to recover a lifetime of lost wages plus medical costs. I don't know the exact number they're shooting for but I'm fairy sure it's in the low seven figures.

Anyway tl;dr, any injury can lead to a million-plus-dollar medical/lost-wages claim. Even a seemingly minor one can lead to complications. $100k is not very much money if an accident victim is just a little bit unlucky.

My sister had something similar happen, except it was a kid who rammed into her foot with a shopping cart. Lifetime of pain, limited mobility. She can still work somewhat, though nothing with a lot of moving around.

MonkeyBot
Mar 11, 2005

OMG ITZ MONKEYBOT

homullus posted:

My sister had something similar happen, except it was a kid who rammed into her foot with a shopping cart. Lifetime of pain, limited mobility. She can still work somewhat, though nothing with a lot of moving around.

Man at that point see if you can just get the damned foot removed. Although since insurance companis are dicks maybe wait until after the huge settlement so you can pay for it. I figure a foot prosthetic probably isn't too limiting.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

MonkeyBot posted:

Man at that point see if you can just get the damned foot removed. Although since insurance companis are dicks maybe wait until after the huge settlement so you can pay for it. I figure a foot prosthetic probably isn't too limiting.

Even if you were serious, you should be aware that removing something that hurts doesn't necessarily stop it from hurting (this is called phantom pain, but it's the limb that's the phantom, not the pain).

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Yeah my sister says that CPS isn't actually caused by the injury site, and removing the foot wouldn't actually cure the CPS. It's a syndrome that is developed or triggered by an injury but the injury itself can fully heal and the syndrome remains. It's definitely at least partially neurological, it's not yet well understood, it's definitely not "phantom pain" or "all in your head" kind of thing either, and there's a fair amount of dumb prejudices and poor medical practices in a halo around it to boot (doctors not believing patients are suffering when they can't find a source for the pain, doctors discounting women, minorities, and especially female minorities' reports of pain, all that poo poo).

Carry lots and lots of medical/injury coverage on your insurance, folks.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Leperflesh posted:

Yeah my sister says that CPS isn't actually caused by the injury site, and removing the foot wouldn't actually cure the CPS. It's a syndrome that is developed or triggered by an injury but the injury itself can fully heal and the syndrome remains. It's definitely at least partially neurological, it's not yet well understood, it's definitely not "phantom pain" or "all in your head" kind of thing either

It sounds as though you may be putting phantom pain in the same box as "all in your head," especially with the scare quotes. Phantom pain is a well-documented sequela of amputation.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

homullus posted:

It sounds as though you may be putting phantom pain in the same box as "all in your head," especially with the scare quotes. Phantom pain is a well-documented sequela of amputation.

Certainly, and my intention wasn't to dismiss it, that's my bad. However, the treatment approach for phantom pain is not effective or applicable to CPS.

MonkeyBot
Mar 11, 2005

OMG ITZ MONKEYBOT
That's a possibility sure but which is better: weak flesh foot with pain or badass robot foot with pain? Besides some dude did some stuff with mirrors once so that phantom pain thing is totally curable.

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011

Leperflesh posted:

there's a fair amount of dumb prejudices and poor medical practices in a halo around it to boot (doctors not believing patients are suffering when they can't find a source for the pain, doctors discounting women, minorities, and especially female minorities' reports of pain, all that poo poo).
I think this idea that doctors "don't believe patients" is based on a misunderstanding of what it is that doctors do. If a doctor tells a patient that they can't identify an etiology of their pain, the doctor isn't telling the patient that they shouldn't be in pain or that they don't believe the patient is in pain. Without some kind of underlying etiology to guide therapeutic interventions, a doctor can't ethically embark on a course of treatment beyond management of symptoms, and what tools they have within their specialty may be inadequate or inappropriate to achieve the results the patient wants. None the less, I see a lot of people insist that a doctor said "it's all in your head" when told that an issue is possibly neurological in nature, or that none of the diagnostic studies done so far have uncovered a cause for their symptoms.

tinytort
Jun 10, 2013

Super healthy, super cheap

Dead Reckoning posted:

I think this idea that doctors "don't believe patients" is based on a misunderstanding of what it is that doctors do. If a doctor tells a patient that they can't identify an etiology of their pain, the doctor isn't telling the patient that they shouldn't be in pain or that they don't believe the patient is in pain. Without some kind of underlying etiology to guide therapeutic interventions, a doctor can't ethically embark on a course of treatment beyond management of symptoms, and what tools they have within their specialty may be inadequate or inappropriate to achieve the results the patient wants. None the less, I see a lot of people insist that a doctor said "it's all in your head" when told that an issue is possibly neurological in nature, or that none of the diagnostic studies done so far have uncovered a cause for their symptoms.

No, there's evidence and anecdotes about doctors flat-out ignoring what a patient tells them, because the patient is female, fat, or a BIPOC. (God help you if you're all of the above.) There's also evidence and anecdotes about doctors refusing to even do any tests to investigate the cause of symptoms.

I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but this poo poo does actually happen. People aren't making it up to make their doctors look bad.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

tinytort posted:

No, there's evidence and anecdotes about doctors flat-out ignoring what a patient tells them, because the patient is female, fat, or a BIPOC. (God help you if you're all of the above.) There's also evidence and anecdotes about doctors refusing to even do any tests to investigate the cause of symptoms.

I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but this poo poo does actually happen. People aren't making it up to make their doctors look bad.
Why not both? Some patients are unreliable narrators for what their doctors tell them. Some doctors are dismissive of people that don't look like them. Both can be true at the same time. And it'd be hard to differentiate between the two if you didn't know the person complaining.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Except one is a rampant centuries-long gross culture of racist- and sexist-based incompetence that kills people, and the other is just patient psychology that every doctor needs to be trained to deal with.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/racism-discrimination-health-care-providers-patients-2017011611015
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2021693
https://www.aafp.org/about/policies/all/institutional-racism.html
https://www.cedars-sinai.org/research/news/cedars-science/2019/examining-gender-bias-in-medical-care.html

The bias is strong enough to show up in basically every study that attempts to find it, with sufficient data to be undeniable and obviously systemic. Women, minorities, and especially minority women, are not believed by doctors at a higher rate than men, white people, and especially white men; and this disbelief results in higher rates of death, and yes, this is still the case even when accounting for differences in outcomes due to economic status and gender.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Leperflesh posted:

Except one is a rampant centuries-long gross culture of racist- and sexist-based incompetence that kills people, and the other is just patient psychology that every doctor needs to be trained to deal with.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/racism-discrimination-health-care-providers-patients-2017011611015
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2021693
https://www.aafp.org/about/policies/all/institutional-racism.html
https://www.cedars-sinai.org/research/news/cedars-science/2019/examining-gender-bias-in-medical-care.html

The bias is strong enough to show up in basically every study that attempts to find it, with sufficient data to be undeniable and obviously systemic. Women, minorities, and especially minority women, are not believed by doctors at a higher rate than men, white people, and especially white men; and this disbelief results in higher rates of death, and yes, this is still the case even when accounting for differences in outcomes due to economic status and gender.
If I suggest A and B both exist, and you prove A exists, does that mean B doesn't exist?

E: Also, since this is the legal thread, I would ask if you think that the clients of the lawyers that hang out in here are the best judge of the quality of legal advice they receive.

E: E: Also, not listening to experts because you don't like what they tell you is a thing that goes back millennia as well.

Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Aug 20, 2020

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

tinytort posted:

No, there's evidence and anecdotes about doctors flat-out ignoring what a patient tells them, because the patient is female, fat, or a BIPOC. (God help you if you're all of the above.) There's also evidence and anecdotes about doctors refusing to even do any tests to investigate the cause of symptoms.

I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but this poo poo does actually happen. People aren't making it up to make their doctors look bad.

Anecdotes are evidence so your formulation is redundant

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.
hashtag not all doctors

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Dik Hz posted:

If I suggest A and B both exist, and you prove A exists, does that mean B doesn't exist?

I can suggest that referring to one as rhetorically the same weight as the other creates a false narrative. It's adjacent to whatabouttism, the practice of diminishing the arguable severity of a problem by suggesting a different problem that we all just have to accept as normal, is of the same class.

quote:

E: Also, since this is the legal thread, I would ask if you think that the clients of the lawyers that hang out in here are the best judge of the quality of legal advice they receive.
I would assume usually not.

quote:

E: E: Also, not listening to experts because you don't like what they tell you is a thing that goes back millennia as well.

Absolutely, and across all domains of expertise.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Like, just to be clear, I'm not talking about the thing Dead Reckoning suggested, where a doctor gives a diagnosis that the pain seems to have a neurological origin and that the treatments, if there are any, should be appropriate to that diagnosis. I'm sure that happens too but it's not the phenomenon I'm referring to.

I'm talking about doctors systemically dismissing patient reports of pain as being exaggerated, or even nonexistent, because of the patients' gender and/or race. Doctors more frequently assume a patient of color is drug-seeking when they report pain as well, even if that patient has no history of drug abuse or addiction. Recent surveys of medical students showed that a significant number still believe the wildly false and racist idea that black people just don't feel pain as much, and/or have thicker skin.

This is rampant. Peer-reviewed research proves it. It's not just a minor or occasional thing.

I would guess, although I don't know for a fact, that an increasing proportion of medical malpractice suits are founded on - and plantiffs prevail on - medical decisions that denied appropriate care because of the racism and sexism built into our medical culture.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Famously anti racist anti sexist fact finders: jurors

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Lol yeah good point, basically our whole society is garbage, but doctors and lawyers and judges are no exception.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
One time a malingering plaintiff (who tried to get her boob job paid for because of alleged back pain, had a reduction and also a lil tummy tuck because while I’m here and everything might as well you know) claimed fibromyalgia as an injury.

I told the associate handling the case at a hearing to join the real world and forget about the bullshit fibromyalgia claim and he got so angry because his WIFE suffers from FIBROMYALGIA it’s not BULLSHIT lol

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Leperflesh posted:

I can suggest that referring to one as rhetorically the same weight as the other creates a false narrative. It's adjacent to whatabouttism, the practice of diminishing the arguable severity of a problem by suggesting a different problem that we all just have to accept as normal, is of the same class.
I'm really struggling to respond to this in a way that won't get me probated.

Are you explaining whataboutism because you think I don't know what it is?

Are you arguing that patients are always reliable narrators and that systemic issues are keeping them in pain?

Are you refuting anything I posted?

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.

Dik Hz posted:

I'm really struggling to respond to this in a way that won't get me probated.

Are you explaining whataboutism because you think I don't know what it is?

Are you arguing that patients are always reliable narrators and that systemic issues are keeping them in pain?

Are you refuting anything I posted?

What did you post that can be refuted?

You literally said, "well sometimes thing A happens and also sometimes thing B happens"

What does that even mean?

Because, absent an actual argument, you sound exactly like the "not all men" or "all lives matter" bullshit. It's a stupid platitude that ignores the underlying issues so you can sleep at night.

Doctors ignoring medical issues of women and people of color is a very real, well-studied phenomenon. Your argument is not an argument. It is a statement of, "things happen this way but they also happen that way." It makes no conclusions. It makes no sense. More importantly, in context, it minimizes the very real systemic problems that need to be fixed.

So please clarify: what, if anything, is your point?

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Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

DaveSauce posted:

What did you post that can be refuted?

You literally said, "well sometimes thing A happens and also sometimes thing B happens"

What does that even mean?

Because, absent an actual argument, you sound exactly like the "not all men" or "all lives matter" bullshit. It's a stupid platitude that ignores the underlying issues so you can sleep at night.

Doctors ignoring medical issues of women and people of color is a very real, well-studied phenomenon. Your argument is not an argument. It is a statement of, "things happen this way but they also happen that way." It makes no conclusions. It makes no sense. More importantly, in context, it minimizes the very real systemic problems that need to be fixed.

So please clarify: what, if anything, is your point?
40% of the people that a doctor treats every day think that Trump is a good president. What do you think of their ability to evaluate their doctor?

To actually answer your question, I said that patients are often unreliable narrators about the expertise of their doctor. I really didn't anticipate that being a controversial statement.

Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Aug 20, 2020

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