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i used to assume american religiosity was on a permanent downtrend but if nonreligious chuds fill the community void with alt-right fash white identity groups then it might take an old fashioned religious revival to stamp that poo poo out, and it would be a legit moral high ground for any preachers willing to take on that cause
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Aug 18, 2020 22:51
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Also, name a single positive representation of unions in the media. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3mw49mk_x0
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Aug 19, 2020 01:28
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:i used to assume american religiosity was on a permanent downtrend but if nonreligious chuds fill the community void with alt-right fash white identity groups then it might take an old fashioned religious revival to stamp that poo poo out, and it would be a legit moral high ground for any preachers willing to take on that cause lol the christian god is capitalism and authoritarianism. these two things are one and the same
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Aug 19, 2020 02:11
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american evangelical protestantism is a cult of mammon
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Aug 19, 2020 02:22
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Cocaine Bear posted:Imagine worshipping a bronze age hissy fit of a diet in the loving space age lol
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Aug 19, 2020 02:48
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Also, name a single positive representation of unions in the media.
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Aug 19, 2020 02:49
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miniscule12 posted:lol the christian god is capitalism and authoritarianism. these two things are one and the same as a rule sure, but there are occasional outbreaks of justifiable righteousness, like the abolitionist movement, before its inevitable degradation also while i don't expect their opinions to hold much sway with the ppl who most need to hear it, there's a pretty long tradition of african american christianity that doesn't fit this rule at all, for obvious reasons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87egB-D2fh4
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Aug 19, 2020 03:47
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Not death but maybe he'll die alone and penniless now Good... but also not good because I love Squidbillies and it will not be the same without Early Cuyler. But overall, good.
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Aug 19, 2020 03:48
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Shear Modulus posted:anti-union people who benefit from unions exist. they either think that they'd be getting just as good a deal without the union or, more often, they don't think about where their good situation comes from and just default to anti-unionism because of cultural indoctrination Part of the problem is you see your pay like this $10 - pay -1 - Union dues -2 - taxes ___________ $7 - net when it should be $5 - base pay +$5 - benefits from union -$1 - union dues -2 - taxes ___________ $7 - net My roommate is in a union and he loves to bitch about the fee and how nobody can ever be fired and the union this and union that. Given he's been fired like twice in the last 2 years at non-union jobs ... I mean I dunno. I always say "yes but if no union then?" Though the worst is companies like fedex, whose employees basically get union pay and benefits to compete with UPS but don't have a union so don't have to support the union.
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Aug 19, 2020 03:53
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Also, name a single positive representation of unions in the media. Newsies made me a communist, but I don’t think that was the intended effect. It also taught me to hate musicals.
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Aug 19, 2020 04:02
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pseudanonymous posted:Part of the problem is you see your pay like this BUT THE UNION WON'T LET THE COMPANY FIRE THE BAD EMPLOYEES
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Aug 19, 2020 05:14
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There was a tv show in Canada with the main character as a police union leader played by Chief from Battlestar Galactica Not only has that particular concept aged like milk, but the show was cancelled after three episodes No idea how good or bad it was though
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Aug 19, 2020 05:15
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Phy posted:There was a tv show in Canada with the main character as a police union leader played by Chief from Battlestar Galactica drat it, why can I not find a youtube clip of the scene from  of Chief Tyrol giving Mario Savio's "throw your bodies on the gears" speech?
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Aug 19, 2020 05:38
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Cocaine Bear posted:Lol, chill dude. I wasn't calling you anything. I mean, now I'm implying you have poor reading comprehension but that's hardly grounds for name calling. Stay safe, weird typer. All in good fun. Huggies.
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Aug 19, 2020 05:39
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:lmao, yes, unlike the bible, which sounds completely reasonable. i mean, it has some pretty lucid arguments against pretty much everything christianity actually is
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Aug 19, 2020 06:00
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Declan MacManus posted:a lot of it is the free rider problem coupled with the supreme court striking down union dues for non-union members; basically between unions negotiating on behalf of every worker there and not just union members (meaning that non-union members get the same benefits as union members), the unions not being allowed to collect administrative and legal fees from non-members, and it being illegal to bar non-union members from a workplace (thanks right to work laws), there is no short term loss to not being in a union in the us, so membership steadily declines and operational funds dwindle for the few unions that haven’t already been broken by big corporations "I hate my Union because they want to spend my dues to support liberal candidates and baby-murderers, and dammit political speech against Trump is TREASON and my Union wants to support the Deep State so I think Unions have outlived their usefulness." (They just ratified a new five-year contract that the rest of us would kill for, but it gives too much money to members with less seniority - how loving dare they pay these noobs a living wage after I worked 35 years wasting a six-figure salary with nothing to show for it but debt because I am horrible with money and thought the money train would go on forever) so I'll be damned if I'll support my own collective bargaining if they are going to fight for the rights pf all workers and not just the workers like me who fit a certain demographic. They SAY I can control how my dues are spent in politics but I trust no one and yeah I got drunk on the job and my shop steward kept me from getting fired but unions are tools of the Demonrats but gently caress the corporation even more and also gently caress you and gently caress myself and wait, where was I? Trump 2020!
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Aug 19, 2020 06:02
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Dr. Faustus posted:The union-represented people I work with in my industry definitely hate the above; but there is another more important factor in the South: We’ve been back in the south for a few months now and even under pandemic lockdown behavior, my 8 year old is noticing the lovely Attitude this whole loving place has and how it manifests in little stupid micro aggressions everywhere.
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Aug 19, 2020 06:10
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the thing about abolition is that being anti-slavery and being anti-racist are related, but not identical phenomena. the architects of british colonialism were often abolitionists of the anglican variety, and the symbolism and assumptions of many british abolitionist reflected deeply racist assumptions. but britian hated slavery. it was a hate rooted in cultural memory and closely connected with what christianity meant to the common people of europe. and for at least a moment, that hate was stronger than their hatred for black people (which was carefully manufactured as a response) and love of profit. where the the two overlapped with radicalism and actual human contact with enslaved people, though, that is where to look for solidarity
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Aug 19, 2020 06:14
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:if you really want to sperg out on desktop browser line widths you can also install a custom theme for the forums that enforces a maximum width, i used to use it so i know something like that exists and you can probably find it by poking around one of the forums meta threads. goonspeed. This is what I use with Violentmonkey: code:
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Aug 19, 2020 06:21
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Telling workers that unions are bad is the biggest scam the capitalist ruling class has ever gotten away with, and even impressive in a way. I'm always reminded of the Simpsons union episode where they want to trade their union for a keg of beer, I thought it was way over the top stupid as a 7 year old, but turns out it's not stupid enough.
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Aug 19, 2020 06:43
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Hodgepodge posted:the thing about abolition is that being anti-slavery and being anti-racist are related, but not identical phenomena. the architects of british colonialism were often abolitionists of the anglican variety, and the symbolism and assumptions of many british abolitionist reflected deeply racist assumptions. Britain hated slavery, eventually, because much of the Caribbean is proof they were once big fans.
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Aug 19, 2020 06:43
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Grape posted:Britain hated slavery, eventually, because much of the Caribbean is proof they were once big fans. colonial plantation owners loved slavery, as did the people who sold their sugar, which is why a sugar boycott was an important and fairly successful attack on slavery within the british empire i mean yeah there were lots of people who liked money and didn't give a poo poo, and few did not hold beliefs that we would not describe as racist (albeit in a form which predates racial explanation for human variation) , but there's also things like the revival of an ancient tradition that any slave who set foot on britain to be automatically free to argue that slaves brought from the colonies were automatically free british subjects. i seem to recall some successes leading up to the abolition movement and that this was ruled to be literally the law awhile before its success, but i'd have to brush up. this was subverted utterly within a generation, using a playbook that developed alongside the antisemitism of the era
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Aug 19, 2020 07:41
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Son of Rodney posted:Telling workers that unions are bad is the biggest scam the capitalist ruling class has ever gotten away with, and even impressive in a way. Yeah, the only thing most people took away from that episode is this:  Union = organised crime.
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Aug 19, 2020 07:55
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Also, name a single positive representation of unions in the media. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGPSGRFcB-g
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Aug 19, 2020 09:50
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Consider for a moment that you're having to look back a quarter of a century for that one episode of Deep Space 9.
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Aug 19, 2020 09:56
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Yeah I'm fully aware of that, it's just a cool episode in a cool show that is fun to talk about.
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Aug 19, 2020 09:59
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Hodgepodge posted:but britian hated slavery. it was a hate rooted in cultural memory and closely connected with what christianity meant to the common people of europe. and for at least a moment, that hate was stronger than their hatred for black people (which was carefully manufactured as a response) and love of profit. Hodgepodge posted:colonial plantation owners loved slavery, as did the people who sold their sugar, which is why a sugar boycott was an important and fairly successful attack on slavery within the british empire Yeah here in Australia back in "the old days" they used to practice slavery pretty openly, except they'd send slaving ships off to the nearby Oceania nations and 'convince' the locals to come on board and then shipped them back to Australia, forcibly sent them out to plantations, beat the poo poo out of them to work until they dropped (and in many many cases worked them until they died) and abandoned any who refused to work so they'd starve to death on the streets ..... BUT they would then give them a couple of bucks and ship them back to their home island and go "See, we paid them and let them go as agreed, it's totally not slavery!" They also had forced labour with the local indigenous peoples, often shipping them hundreds of kilometres away from their homelands so they were stranded, and often including them as part of land sales or trading them for $$$. But they totally intended to pay them at the end of their 'service', the government even had a department which held that money ..... and which routinely 'forgot' to pay them at all, and the QLD government recently had to settle a multi-$100 million lawsuit over it. But it 'technically' wasn't actual slavery, it was just sparkling unpaid forced labour 
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Aug 19, 2020 10:25
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Yeah here in Australia back in "the old days" they used to practice slavery pretty openly, except they'd send slaving ships off to the nearby Oceania nations and 'convince' the locals to come on board and then shipped them back to Australia, forcibly sent them out to plantations, beat the poo poo out of them to work until they dropped (and in many many cases worked them until they died) and abandoned any who refused to work so they'd starve to death on the streets ..... BUT they would then give them a couple of bucks and ship them back to their home island and go "See, we paid them and let them go as agreed, it's totally not slavery!" one of the first thing william wilburforce (iirc) did after his great victory over slavery was set this sort of crap up in africa with a buddy
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Aug 19, 2020 10:51
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Also, name a single positive representation of unions in the media. In Battlestar Galactice they build One Big Union that can shut down the entirety of human civilization when workers are oppressed, and then they use it to end child labour and the fleet's caste system.
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Aug 19, 2020 14:07
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Shear Modulus posted:american evangelical protestantism is a cult of mammon Been saying this for years
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Aug 19, 2020 14:16
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vyelkin posted:In Battlestar Galactice they build One Big Union that can shut down the entirety of human civilization when workers are oppressed, and then they use it to end child labour and the fleet's caste system. Who was that guy that read all the culture novels and conclude that Iain Banks was anti union because there were no unions in the loving post scarcity Culture?
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Aug 19, 2020 14:28
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Also, name a single positive representation of unions in the media. Does Rom's attempt in ds9 count Oh already mentioned multiple times silvergoose has issued a correction as of 15:09 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 14:28
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vyelkin posted:In Battlestar Galactice they build One Big Union that can shut down the entirety of human civilization when workers are oppressed, and then they use it to end child labour and the fleet's caste system. "You go back to work and trust that we'll follow through on our side later", a promise kept only in fiction
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Aug 19, 2020 16:30
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Cocaine Bear posted:Who was that guy that read all the culture novels and conclude that Iain Banks was anti union because there were no unions in the loving post scarcity Culture? That's funny, considering one of his characters calls the Culture's politics (in The State of the Art, IIRC) "bright, bright red".
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Aug 19, 2020 16:55
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Cocaine Bear posted:Who was that guy that read all the culture novels and conclude that Iain Banks was anti union because there were no unions in the loving post scarcity Culture? lmao this was Elon Musk btw
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Aug 19, 2020 16:58
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Knight posted:IIRC, they arrested the strikers and threatened to execute them and their families to end the strike. Then after the strikers fold completely they actually get to sit down with the President and talk about their concerns because they're supposed to be the good guys. on the one hand yeah, on the other hand I don't think many viewers come out of that episode thinking the side that threatened to murder the union leader's wife because he wanted to end child labour are the good guys in this scenario they put a bow on it in the end because they don't want the viewers to hate the president and the admiral when they go back to being heroes next week, but the episode also clearly shows that the president and the admiral are the bad guys in this scenario
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Aug 19, 2020 17:01
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vyelkin posted:on the one hand yeah, on the other hand I don't think many viewers come out of that episode thinking the side that threatened to murder the union leader's wife because he wanted to end child labour are the good guys in this scenario If I'm remembering the right episode the union guys barely featured, it was 100% about how making these Tough Choices was just so hard on the regime and what a noble sacrifice it was for them to do this thing they felt a little bad about, briefly A Wizard of Goatse has issued a correction as of 18:04 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 17:59
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vyelkin posted:on the one hand yeah, on the other hand I don't think many viewers come out of that episode thinking the side that threatened to murder the union leader's wife because he wanted to end child labour are the good guys in this scenario That's a very optimistic view of how sci fi watchers interpret undertones. Or overtones.
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Aug 19, 2020 18:06
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:If I'm remembering the right episode the union guys barely featured, it was 100% about how making these Tough Choices was just so hard on the regime and what a noble sacrifice it was for them to do this thing they felt a little bad about, briefly I remember it differently, Chief is the protagonist of the episode and it follows him around as he explores the dangers of the industrial apparatus, the legitimate grievances for why the workers are striking, his exploration of the emerging caste system, and so on. He tries to raise these issues with the admiral and president, but gets blown off because "we need the fuel chief, all that matters is get them working again I don't give a poo poo how many people die". Iirc in this scene the elite leaders are also like eating fancy food or something to make the disparity really obvious. The chief goes back and restarts the machinery using the street cred he'd built up as the union leader on New Caprica, but then a child worker is instantly maimed and he shuts it all down and declares a strike again. He only caves when the admiral literally gives the order to have his wife shot because he can't have fighter pilots going on strike or disobeying orders to do a suicide mission or something like that. The bow they put on it at the end is the chief finally gets to sit down with the president and when he rationally explains the problems she's like "oh yeah good point we should have listened to you all along, welp guess you're the head of the union again and we should do proper labour negotiations", which serves to make the president and admiral who are the usual protagonists look like good guys again. But most of the episode is spent showing how the chief is right to do what he does because conditions for workers are so egregious. silvergoose posted:That's a very optimistic view of how sci fi watchers interpret undertones. Or overtones. this is a very fair point though
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Aug 19, 2020 18:10
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nikosoft posted:lmao this was Elon Musk btw Lol, what a loving moron example #8759373648
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Aug 19, 2020 19:30
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