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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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More probably they're not trying to alienate the 19% of their base that are complete idiots and/or work in the health care industry.copy posted:"Nobody knows what anybody else wants and we would be better off if we stopped pretending like we do" is literally the thesis of my statement there so thanks? howie wildly underperforms compared to even previous green candidates and isn't even on the same spectrum of getting people to want to vote for him as other leftists running for office. I doubt that the third party effect is why he isn't winning everything. Hell, even the libertarian candidate has more support. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 16:54
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spunkshui posted:Maybe you don’t know what people want which is why you think all 50 states would vote for someone that doesn’t get any loving votes. Because I'm sure the 24/7 coverage about how "Good things are actually bad and you're a stupid fucknugget for wanting them" funded by multibillion dollar media empires has nothing to do with people's perceptions and affecting what they think they want. Edit: Kraftwerk posted:I'd normally agree with you if the GOP was running Mitt Romney and Bush Senior types who can at least do SOMETHING about the pandemic while keeping their abuse of power to a minimum. Biden and his ilk hate the left just as much as the Republicans do. It's the Democratic Party apparatus that's trying to smother Leftists and Progressives in the crib by doing poo poo like sabotaging AOC's "speech" the other night and threatening to blacklist anyone who runs against an incumbent in the primaries. Any success on the Leftists part is IN SPITE OF the Democratic party. Staying involved is absolutely important, but voting for the Lesser Evil is a step backwards no matter how you spin it. the_steve fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 16:56
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Terror Sweat posted:Is Biden the lesser evil? His foreign policy from the past 5 decades is monstrously evil, and foreign policy is where the president has the most control. Biden was one of the architects of Iraq, he’d been pushing for war with them over a decade, and that ended up destabilizing a quarter of the world. He’s never met a foreign intervention that he hasn’t liked, and even with the assassination of Iran’s general, Biden just objected to the method of killing, he also wanted him dead. Trumps foreign policy is definitely worse than Obama in the Middle East, with probably at least triple the amount of death and destruction, and his refusal to stop the genocidal war in Yemen. It’s probably better in South America with his gross incompetence being a boon. But how will joe Biden’s foreign policy hold up? He’s a war criminal and is pursuing the support of other war criminals. Colin Powell at the DNC is something I will be laughing about for a long time. How is that not a huge red flag about Biden's potential foreign policy decisions lol spunkshui posted:Maybe you don’t know what people want which is why you think all 50 states would vote for someone that doesn’t get any loving votes. Haha and what do people want, in your mind, that isn't in the Green platform but is in Biden's? And why do you believe Joe Biden will deliver anything of his that actually matters, considering his history, and recent statements?
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Aug 19, 2020 16:56
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Terror Sweat posted:Is Biden the lesser evil? His foreign policy from the past 5 decades is monstrously evil, and foreign policy is where the president has the most control. Biden was one of the architects of Iraq, he’d been pushing for war with them over a decade, and that ended up destabilizing a quarter of the world. He’s never met a foreign intervention that he hasn’t liked, and even with the assassination of Iran’s general, Biden just objected to the method of killing, he also wanted him dead. Trumps foreign policy is definitely worse than Obama in the Middle East, with probably at least triple the amount of death and destruction, and his refusal to stop the genocidal war in Yemen. It’s probably better in South America with his gross incompetence being a boon. But how will joe Biden’s foreign policy hold up? He’s a war criminal and is pursuing the support of other war criminals. Trump is probably better in foreign policy just because he is so ineffective and people hate everything he does. When Obama was bombing poor brown countries no one said anything. If Trump does it there is an uproar.
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Aug 19, 2020 16:57
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spunkshui posted:Maybe you don’t know what people want which is why you think all 50 states would vote for someone that doesn’t get any loving votes. More substantially, is your disagreement with me that you don't believe the green party platform is popular? Or do you think that even if people did not practice strategic voting and voted exclusively based on how they personally want the country governed that it would still just be a race between democrats and republicans?
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Aug 19, 2020 16:58
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You stupid loving libs are unbelievable. Use your loving brains for once in your goddamned lives and look at what's right in front of you. edit: How many more loving war criminals do the dems need to rehabilitate before you loving get it through your skulls? How many more people do they need to murder, starve, imprison, turn into indentured servants? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 19, 2020 17:01
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the_steve posted:Because I'm sure the 24/7 coverage about how "Good things are actually bad and you're a stupid fucknugget for wanting them" funded by multibillion dollar media empires has nothing to do with people's perceptions and affecting what they think they want. The Greens don't actually exist, ignore that line on your ballot, it's a typo, and definitely don't look up their platform! It's all a Russian op! If you vote for them you'll make Obama sad!
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Aug 19, 2020 17:01
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copy posted:I gotta be honest in retrospect it's embarrassing to me how long it took me to get here. Most people with a vested interest in seeing their fellow citizens thrive wish to assume the best about people, and by extension, our elected representatives. I don't fault anyone clinging to optimism and fighting the good fight, like GreyjoyBastard does. Genuinely, I appreciate them, and I don't begrudge anyone for choosing to vote for Biden. Voting is more or less an aesthetic choice thanks to our hosed electoral system (except in, I dunno, purple states? do these exist anymore?), and I fully recognize that my choice is a mostly aesthetic """virtue signal""" but one I still do feel strongly about.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:01
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copy posted:More substantially, is your disagreement with me that you don't believe the green party platform is popular? Or do you think that even if people did not practice strategic voting and voted exclusively based on how they personally want the country governed that it would still just be a race between democrats and republicans? I don’t think the Green party would take all 50 states even if the Democrat party didn’t exist so I said maybe you don’t have a very good idea about what large swaths of the country wants. Which apparently is whatever the gently caress Republicans are offering. Edit: I am disagreeing with you that the Green party platform could carry all 50 states. It’s honestly laughable that a political party could carry all 50 states no matter what the gently caress they are offering. The country doesn’t want the same poo poo everywhere. A good chunk of the country wants marijuana banned while another good chunk wants it legal. spunkshui fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 17:02
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americans vote based on what party stimulates their racism and 'gently caress the poor' receptors most, not based off of what is good for themselves.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:06
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Herstory Begins Now posted:americans vote based on what party stimulates their racism and 'gently caress the poor' receptors most, not based off of what is good for themselves. There's really no way you can assert this since there is no party with real national reach that offers an alternative.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:06
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spunkshui posted:I don’t think the Green party would take all 50 states even if the Democrat party didn’t exist so I said maybe you don’t have a very good idea about what large swaths of the country wants. Which apparently is whatever the gently caress Republicans are offering. Ok so it's just my hyperbole about a 50 state win that you disagree with. I apologize for it not being more obvious that that was an exaggeration. I do personally believe, based on poling of policy positions I have seen, that if people only voted based on their own personal desires that the green party platform would win. However we live in the world where strategic voting does exist so there's really no chance of Howie winning. Strawberry doom it is. That being said if strategic voting is ever to go away, it's going to happen one vote at a time, and I think I'll contribute to that change.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:07
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Verus posted:You stupid loving libs are unbelievable. Use your loving brains for once in your goddamned lives and look at what's right in front of you. The probation note tells them to chill but honestly this is the appropriate response to Colin Powell being asked to speak at the convention. That is as pure a signal from Joe that he is going to commit countless war crimes and atrocities as you're going to get, and the Dems openly embracing their lust for death abroad should upset you. Like Kissinger was bad, but we are still actively engaged in the war that Powell helped lie our way into and here the Dems are, happily aiding and abetting the rehabilitation of a war criminal whose crimes are still in progress.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:08
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Wicked Them Beats posted:The probation note tells them to chill but honestly this is the appropriate response to Colin Powell being asked to speak at the convention. That is as pure a signal from Joe that he is going to commit countless war crimes and atrocities as you're going to get, and the Dems openly embracing their lust for death abroad should upset you. it was just the first line of that post when i clicked the button, fwiw
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Aug 19, 2020 17:08
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copy posted:Ok so it's just my hyperbole about a 50 state win that you disagree with. I apologize for it not being more obvious that that was an exaggeration. I do personally believe, based on poling of policy positions I have seen, that if people only voted based on their own personal desires that the green party platform would win. However we live in the world where strategic voting does exist so apart from "being the change I want to see in the world" there's really no chance of Howie winning. Strawberry doom it is. I’m here to tell you that if you swapped the Democrats and the Green party we would not automatically win the election. In your mind we would just automatically get so many more votes we wouldn’t even need to try but that’s not the case. A huge fuckton of this country doesn’t want anything to do with the Democrats or the Green party. They want to build a goddamn wall and make Mexico pay for it.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:11
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Wicked Them Beats posted:The probation note tells them to chill but honestly this is the appropriate response to Colin Powell being asked to speak at the convention. That is as pure a signal from Joe that he is going to commit countless war crimes and atrocities as you're going to get, and the Dems openly embracing their lust for death abroad should upset you. This take is absurd, especially when there is a more clear and obvious reason for it. For decades now, Colin Powell has basically been seen as (incorrectly, but its widespread) the independent apolitical smart guy some dumb voters like who won't ever run. This, along with Kasich is nothing more than trying to get more people to vote for Biden. ("Even HE is voting against Trump, he's that bad, so you can too!") It is not at all a concession nor a tangible promise to the other side that Biden would do anything for them other than not be like Trump.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:13
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FYI, I brought up Third Party Effect. CDA was arguing about how the media doesn't manipulate people's views, which is right, but I pointed out research on things like the TPE. So it is important to high light that the "Third Party Effect" does not refer to literal minor political parties. It refers to how people think about the influence of media and things like that. I.e., "this piece of propaganda has no impact on me, but will affect other people." In the primary, the example is clear. Think of how many people you knew who were upset that Bernie is a socialist. Now, think of how many people you knew who didn't care that Bernie was a socialist, but decided not to vote for him because they were concerned that other people would reject him for being a socialist. That is the third party effect. "This ad doesn't affect me, but it will affect other people, so I am going to strategically change my actions." Personally, the number of people I knew who wouldn't vote for Bernie because he was a socialist is 0. Much like the number of people who wouldn't vote for him because they thought he'd have that MSNBC anchor executed in central park is also 0. But there is a massive number of people who even liked that Bernie was a socialist but still voted for someone else because they thought other people would never vote for a socialist. That is "third party effect." So MSNBC may not convince you, personally, that Bernie would create gulags. But you think that other people may convinced of that, and you adjust your vote accordingly.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:13
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Rigel posted:This take is absurd, especially when there is a more clear and obvious reason for it. For decades now, Colin Powell has basically been seen as (incorrectly, but its widespread) the independent apolitical smart guy some dumb voters like who won't ever run. I really am gonna need some evidence for this. I don't see anyone associate him with anything other than holding up that vial of "anthrax" to get us into Iraq.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:15
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punishedkissinger posted:I really am gonna need some evidence for this. I don't see anyone associate him with anything other than holding up that vial of "anthrax" to get us into Iraq. He hasn't been polled recently because he hasn't held any appointed office in a very long time, but his approval rating has never been lower than sky-high. Aren't YOU sick and tired of hearing ignorant people weigh in with their stellar hot take of "gosh, I wish Colin Powell would run, I'd vote for him!"
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Aug 19, 2020 17:17
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punishedkissinger posted:I really am gonna need some evidence for this. I don't see anyone associate him with anything other than holding up that vial of "anthrax" to get us into Iraq. Gonna guess the 'evidence' is 'I fell for propaganda that even Trump supporters won't fall for' I think this DNC has single handedly revived Donald the Dove
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Aug 19, 2020 17:17
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Rigel posted:He hasn't been polled recently because he hasn't held any appointed office in a very long time, but his approval rating has never been lower than sky-high. Aren't YOU sick and tired of hearing ignorant people weigh in with their stellar hot take of "gosh, I wish Colin Powell would run, I'd vote for him!" I have not heard this. The last time I remember anyone bringing that up was when McCain was running and he got beaten out by Palin.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:18
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Rigel posted:This take is absurd, especially when there is a more clear and obvious reason for it. For decades now, Colin Powell has basically been seen as (incorrectly, but its widespread) the independent apolitical smart guy some dumb voters like who won't ever run. If the party is so willing to platform war criminals and anti-choice hate monsters for the possibility that they can get votes out of it, why are they so unwilling to extend the same non-concession, non-promise package to the left? If it doesn’t matter and it’s all political theater, why is the left of the party always conspicuously absent from the cast list?
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Aug 19, 2020 17:18
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TwoQuestions posted:It's a hard sell for me to believe Joe will be as blase about nuclear proliferation as Trump has been. Counterbalanced by his foreign policy being likely to give much more reason for proliferation; Iraq and Ukraine proved that not having nukes as a small country that - for whatever reason - the local or world hegemons might have reason to gently caress with, is suicidal.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:18
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punishedkissinger posted:I really am gonna need some evidence for this. I don't see anyone associate him with anything other than holding up that vial of "anthrax" to get us into Iraq. for better or for worse, he's generally known for quitting the bush administration over the completely pointless and vindictive bush administration's sabotage of the Iran talks, which makes him one of the very few high ranking military people in american history to actually go 'hey maybe us foreign policy is monstrous' anyways, don't take this as a defense of colin powell
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Aug 19, 2020 17:18
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Rigel posted:This take is absurd, especially when there is a more clear and obvious reason for it. For decades now, Colin Powell has basically been seen as (incorrectly, but its widespread) the independent apolitical smart guy some dumb voters like who won't ever run. I'm very thankful you can be here as the DNC Whisperer to assure us that when the Democrats tell us they'll tank M4A or ACRONYM is good, actually, or that Joe's going to work directly with the GOP and might bring a few into his staff, or they're bringing Kasich and Powell to talk about how great Joe is to and for people with their exact politics that this is all posturing and little white lies and ACTUALLY if you just examine how thus and heretofore and you'll clearly see that none of this really matters and Joe's gonna be really good! Just don't listen when he tells you explicitly what he's going to do and what his positions are! It's totally fine, honest! Believe me! You've gotta believe me!
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Aug 19, 2020 17:20
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I think I am out. Currently looking into Dr. Jo Jorgensen for president from the Libertarian party. I mean looking back on it, maybe Biden never learned from his vote for Iraq. It makes sense he would invite Powell.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:20
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Rigel posted:This take is absurd, especially when there is a more clear and obvious reason for it. For decades now, Colin Powell has basically been seen as (incorrectly, but its widespread) the independent apolitical smart guy some dumb voters like who won't ever run. This is the absurd take. It implies that Powell and Kasich were fooled when they accepted to speak. Them appearing is not a "concession," because it is pretty much people who are in agreement with the basics of the Biden platform. Biden got elected by using every dog whistle against a republican who had voted for the civil rights and voting rights act. Spent the early part of his career catering to segregationists, and the later part of his career catering to the financial sector and to military expansionists. Now he has the speakers from several past RNCs speaking on his behalf. But none of this means nothing. There's some words on a website, so we must ignore all that has been said. Kissinger, Powell, Kasich, Whittman, McCain were all fooled when they signed on to support Biden.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:21
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I'd like to think that sooner or later libs will start trusting Biden when he repeatedly tells them who he is, but his actively campaigning for Republicans is apparently not enough so at this point I honestly don't know what would be. Edit: I hope Biden follows through on releasing his cabinet picks before the election. Watching the lib posters try to spin it will be quite the show. Wicked Them Beats fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 17:22
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spunkshui posted:A huge fuckton of this country doesn’t want anything to do with the Democrats or the Green party. Correct, which is why it is so disturbing that Democrats think they can win voters by running to the right. There is no representation for Progressives outside the Green party.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:24
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spunkshui posted:I’m here to tell you that if you swapped the Democrats and the Green party we would not automatically win the election. Ok. I respect your belief there. I do agree that a large amount of Americans are as you describe, and that's really deeply hosed up. I think more of our electorate, specifically people who currently do not vote, are more concerned with being able to pay their rent and bills than there are voters who are hugely racist. That is conjecture on my part, and it's really just based on polling of policy positions. Considering that we live in a world of strategic voting and voter suppression that has led to massive disenfranchisement, we will never be able to test exactly how stupid and naive my hopes are. However I think the conclusion from all of this is that there is absolutely no hope for a just society in the current USA to come out of electoralism. I agree with this, but I'm interested to know if that's how you think as well. joepinetree posted:FYI, I brought up Third Party Effect. CDA was arguing about how the media doesn't manipulate people's views, which is right, but I pointed out research on things like the TPE. Thanks kindly and I apologize for the mis-attribution. I really appreciate your posts both on that topic (even though I forgot it was you) and foreign policy. Thanks, friend!
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Aug 19, 2020 17:24
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Wicked Them Beats posted:I'd like to think that sooner or later libs will start trusting Biden when he repeatedly tells them who he is, but his actively campaigning for Republicans is apparently not enough so at this point I honestly don't know what would be. We’re actually going to spend the rest of our lives hearing about what a good president and how cool he was from liberals, but at least when we’re all on the same chain gang in the trash mines in 30 years, we probably won’t get in trouble for not being sufficiently chill about how outrageously disgusting all that is. Or maybe we will, it’s shaping up to be a very stupid dystopia.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:25
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Gonna guess the 'evidence' is 'I fell for propaganda that even Trump supporters won't fall for' punishedkissinger posted:I have not heard this. The last time I remember anyone bringing that up was when McCain was running and he got beaten out by Palin. Powell has recorded some of the very highest approval numbers in Gallup's history. The last time I saw an approval poll on Colin Powell, he was over 80%. Seriously, this is not a new revelation. "People really really like Colin Powell" is a very well known thing in politics, but perhaps not by younger people. I'm sure his popularity is shallow and he's never been attacked, but as of summer 2020 he is absolutely useful to reach voters who somehow still are not locked in.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:25
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the_steve posted:In what world do you expect someone to give you something they don't want to give you without any sort of incentive to do so? copy posted:There is no "moving left" for a party that platforms republicans, adamantly refuses to have any moderate leftist goals on its platform (which can just be lies! They won't even loving lie about it!), and actively sabotages the careers of rising progressives. We may as well try to move the loving republicans left. Yeah you aren't going to be able to transform existing centrist politicians into leftists. We know that. But that's not how moving left was ever going to work. Moving the Democratic party left is mainly going to happen by having leftists win primaries. That's not some unachievable fantasy, it's already happening. I live in St. Louis and voted for Cori Bush and she loving won against the definition of an establishment Democrat, just like AOC and several other left candidates have done now. This thread hates hearing it, but the reason Biden is the nominee and is running on a centrist platform is because he got more votes. It didn't have to be that way this time and it doesn't have to be that way next time.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:27
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It is kind of weird where 2016 was much bigger on the Iraq War being seen as a huge black stain on a candidate, where now it’s really not talked about at all. That’s probably because of the pandemic, because without it I’m sure that would be the biggest attack against Biden
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Aug 19, 2020 17:29
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Rigel posted:Powell has recorded some of the very highest approval numbers in Gallup's history. The last time I saw an approval poll on Colin Powell, he was over 80%. So I take it your answer to my earlier question would be that the left isn’t sufficiently popular to move voters, so the Democrats have no choice but to give speaking time to dynamic, powerful figures like Kasich and Whitman? Or are they just part of the package when you want to get the soaring rhetoric and incredible popularity of Colin Powell?
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Aug 19, 2020 17:30
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Rigel posted:Powell has recorded some of the very highest approval numbers in Gallup's history. The last time I saw an approval poll on Colin Powell, he was over 80%. The only thing I can find on this is from 2002. I'm assuming this is not what you're referring to? https://news.gallup.com/poll/6886/powell-remains-most-popular-political-figure-america.aspx
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Aug 19, 2020 17:30
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rko posted:We’re actually going to spend the rest of our lives hearing about what a good president and how cool he was from liberals, but at least when we’re all on the same chain gang in the trash mines in 30 years, we probably won’t get in trouble for not being sufficiently chill about how outrageously disgusting all that is. getting tone policed while on a chain gang seems very on brand for the future of this country e: past too
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Aug 19, 2020 17:32
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Enigma89 posted:Trump is probably better in foreign policy just because he is so ineffective and people hate everything he does. When Obama was bombing poor brown countries no one said anything. If Trump does it there is an uproar. That's not true, it's the one thing they praise him for
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Aug 19, 2020 17:32
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TheCardhouse posted:This thread hates hearing it, but the reason Biden is the nominee and is running on a centrist platform is because he got more votes. It didn't have to be that way this time and it doesn't have to be that way next time. The thread hates hearing it because it’s a reductive nonsense statement that completely ignores the massive pile of evidence the Democrats left behind as they were organizing the entire party apparatus around a senile rapist to avoid inconveniencing their donors, just as a heads up. Herstory Begins Now posted:getting tone policed while on a chain gang seems very on brand for the future of this country okay I’ll grant you that this made me chuckle. I’m still mad, but I’m chuckling.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:32
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The #resistance chanted "this is not normal" until everything was so normal they're going to vote for it and you're the idiot for opposing it.
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Aug 19, 2020 17:33
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