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thank you for taking the L
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Aug 20, 2020 23:33
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Pretty sure when people cite Kate's racism they're referring to her action and inaction in the Buffering community and as one of the founders of the Valkyries. Before she scrubbed her Twitter there were multiple people calling her out for letting the groups she run exclude people of color, said people explicitly telling her that it was happening, then her doing nothing about it. Like this woman states in 2017. Or this thread. https://twitter.com/oheysteenz/status/1276598610499600396?s=20 There's no bullet with the n-word engraved on it that we can trace back to a firearm owned by Leth, but there's more than just that clearly disingenuous facebook post.
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Aug 20, 2020 23:37
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I don’t think anyone is actually going to convince a person who labeled a black woman getting mad in a way they thought was incorrect as a sociopath but I for one really appreciate the efforts y’all have put in for providing sources.
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Aug 20, 2020 23:41
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Skwirl posted:and there hasn't been any evidence of that except she quoted a Black woman in her own defense who she never actually interacted with. I don't know how many times in gonna have to repeat this but if the woman affected and other women of color think this is racist behavior, along with how she dealt with the valkyries situation and whatever else gets passed along in whisper networks that gets hinted at by creators, I'm not just gonna blindly say they're wrong Skwirl posted:
This seems like such a weird thing to end on. Mackenzie can't be mad because there's not enough time? What does that even mean
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Aug 20, 2020 23:42
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Clipperton posted:i honestly don't give a gently caress if leth's a racist or not So why are we still having this conversation? A lot of this is predicated on hearsay and anecdotal evidence but the fact is that a lot of cases of bias, discrimination, etc. don't leave a particularly compelling papertrail. In this case, in terms of assessing the accusations against Kate Leth, I've chosen to believe the women who've spoken out against her but I guess it's your prerogative to not be totally persuaded by their accounts. It seems like my read here is closer to the thread consensus and it also seems that things are rapidly becoming circular and hostile. I'm not sure where else this conversation can go? If you're looking for a smoking fun I'm sure it will be posted here as soon as it's evident, but it's just as likely that this story will remain rooted in the very often legitimate but occasionally flawed domain of whisper networks and rumor. That's compelling enough for some people, but not compelling enough for you. I think it's fine to leave it at that?
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Aug 20, 2020 23:43
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that thread is full of stuff like this https://twitter.com/oheysteenz/status/1276599077749358594 "we wanted to shut down valkyries, but leth didn't, then it got shut down anyway, which we wanted, but people were mad at us for that and that was leth's fault too for some reason" like i said several posts ago, ppl seem to be mad at leth because (to them) she's a climber who used her relationships and the orgs she was part of for her own advancement without caring for them much. which is fine, but they're bringing in extreeeeemely tenuous "racism" allegations to bolster their case and when asked to back it up they're backing and filling and coming up with stuff like this. it's not helping
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Aug 20, 2020 23:45
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Mr. Maltose posted:I don’t think anyone is actually going to convince a person who labeled a black woman getting mad in a way they thought was incorrect as a sociopath but I for one really appreciate the efforts y’all have put in for providing sources. she specifically told leth not to post about her, and leth didn't, then she went off at leth for not posting an apology instead. it's regina george poo poo
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Aug 20, 2020 23:48
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I will say that a pretty good swath of the things in the instagram album are huge reaches or are just bad and stupid tweets. I think that even if we grant that there's still a conversation to be had about race and the Valkyries thing which as I understand it is the real meat of the issue.
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Aug 20, 2020 23:49
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This thread moved fast while I was editing a reply from last past so dumping this over here instead: To mirror the conversation in this very thread (Clipperton, looking at you), a lot of the stories (and deleted Twitter/social media) interactions aren't about that sort of Classic Movie Racism, but more a situation that is essentially: KATE LETH: [thing that is kind of hosed up but you could charitably interpret as not based out of racial animus, just ignorance/societal conditioning] PERSON OF COLOR: "Hey, uh, that's kind of hosed up." KATE LETH: What? No it isn't! What are you talking about, it's fine! MORE PEOPLE OF COLOR: "No, it's kind of hosed up, here's why" KATE LETH: "Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I don't know! Seems fine to me!" EVEN MORE PEOPLE: "No really, please reflect on this for a second." And then she deletes the original statement and sometimes issues a vague apology but not about or to anyone in particular and moves on. I do not have screen caps of it, though I vividly remember it happening/the contemporary reaction to it, and you can search for it on Twitter but fair warning, no one else has screencaps either. She posted one night that her ideal pet would be Idris Elba on a leash. I am sure that her intention was just to be horny on main, but a lot of people correctly pointed out that expressing this horniness by characterizing the object of your affection (regardless of personal identity) as a pet on a leash is a little suspect, especially when it's a black man, was met with indifference/pushback, until eventually she just deleted the tweet and pretended it never happened. This is a pattern dozens of people have experienced in public and private and to my knowledge there has never been a bunch of hate speech rants made, the pattern emerges that maybe she just really doesn't give a poo poo about these issues or these people, and doesn't particularly respect the opinions or feelings of the people who try to talk to her about it. This is bad enough, but to do all of this while proclaiming yourself an activist/advocate/ally really rubs folks the wrong way, and I can't blame them. A lot of people might actually call this... I dunno, racism??? Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Aug 20, 2020 |
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Aug 20, 2020 23:52
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How Wonderful! posted:I will say that a pretty good swath of the things in the instagram album are huge reaches or are just bad and stupid tweets. I think that even if we grant that there's still a conversation to be had about race and the Valkyries thing which as I understand it is the real meat of the issue. why do you have a bee now? is it a mod thing because i want a bee
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Aug 20, 2020 23:58
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the thing is, calling all that "racism" (as opposed to, say, "being a narcissistic climber") is a major reach. and her accusers admit it's a reach - if it was enough on its own, they would have said so right off the bat, job done. instead they've vacillated and, when pressed, the best they can do is to turn up anti-racist webcomics and kelly marie tran retweets and such
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Aug 21, 2020 00:01
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Clipperton posted:the thing is, calling all that "racism" (as opposed to, say, "being a narcissistic climber") is a major reach. and her accusers admit it's a reach - if it was enough on its own, they would have said so right off the bat, job done. instead they've vacillated and, when pressed, the best they can do is to turn up anti-racist webcomics and kelly marie tran retweets and such Racism can be a passive process which is what E&C was getting at. I don't think anybody is claiming that she's running around in a white hood, it's a matter of who she treats as disposable, who she cultivates as worth catering to, etc., who has room for upward mobility in circles she runs and who is pushed to the margins. Again this is largely specifically stuff pertaining to Valkyries in-group tensions which have not left a compelling paper trail. Or to keep it within the frames you've provided since I think they're not inaccurate, I'd argue that the way in which she reveals herself as self-interested and more cutthroat or opportunistic than she wants to be perceived intersects with other issues-- one of these is race, and that reveals itself in the way she treats the complaints of non-white people as less weighty, and holds herself to lower standards when it comes to racial issues. It's nuanced, yeah, but it is also quite easily read as pretty damning. Soonmot posted:why do you have a bee now? is it a mod thing because i want a bee How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Aug 21, 2020 |
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Aug 21, 2020 00:06
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I'm gonna listen to the nonwhite folks when they say they see something eff'd up, because I know I can be too much of an oblivious oaf to pick it up myself.
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Aug 21, 2020 00:07
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Clipperton posted:the thing is, calling all that "racism" (as opposed to, say, "being a narcissistic climber") is a major reach. and her accusers admit it's a reach - if it was enough on its own, they would have said so right off the bat, job done. instead they've vacillated and, when pressed, the best they can do is to turn up anti-racist webcomics and kelly marie tran retweets and such Also yes, thank you for confirming your threshhold of racism is still at the level of "is not literally a villain in a 1950s teleplay about tolerance".
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Aug 21, 2020 00:11
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Edge & Christian posted:I really think you're conflating about a dozen things here and I am going to assume it's good faith distraction and not anything else but to be very very very clear, "kellie marie tran retweets" are completely divorced from what anyone other than some Comicsgate-adjacent "reverse racist feminazi" people who are not in this thread are using. okay so why would anyone tweet https://twitter.com/CiaraOCalla/status/1295235874876203009 when the only relevant link you get by googling "kate leth reddit" is the comicsgate thing with the dossier of tran retweets? like i said, they're just throwing a bunch of poo poo against the wall and hoping some of it sticks because they dislike leth for their own (maybe valid!) reasons
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Aug 21, 2020 01:52
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This is an extraordinarily strange hill to die on.
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Aug 21, 2020 02:34
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Clipperton posted:i honestly don't give a gently caress if leth's a racist or not Then stop posting about it.
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Aug 21, 2020 03:02
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There's some crap in a few comic groups on FB claiming EVS is speaking at the RNC and honestly wouldn't shock me if it was true.
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Aug 21, 2020 14:25
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They invited that gargoyle lawyer couple from St. Louis who waved guns at BLM protestors walking past their house, so I can see that. The GOP has stopped pretending to have any kind of integrity or standards and have just gone full troll.
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Aug 21, 2020 14:33
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Rhyno posted:There's some crap in a few comic groups on FB claiming EVS is speaking at the RNC and honestly wouldn't shock me if it was true. This sounds like wishful thinking by a bunch of comic book chuds wishing that the greater chud world cared about their hobby.
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Aug 21, 2020 15:41
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Rhyno posted:There's some crap in a few comic groups on FB claiming EVS is speaking at the RNC and honestly wouldn't shock me if it was true. Lol
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Aug 21, 2020 16:32
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Rhyno posted:There's some crap in a few comic groups on FB claiming EVS is speaking at the RNC and honestly wouldn't shock me if it was true. And yet the DNC could only get that man who was in that one issue of Spider-Man. Embarrassing.
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Aug 21, 2020 16:39
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JordanKai posted:And yet the DNC could only get that man who was in that one issue of Spider-Man. Embarrassing. Shameful even. The RNC got the MyPillow guy so there's that.
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Aug 21, 2020 16:57
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JordanKai posted:And yet the DNC could only get that man who was in that one issue of Spider-Man. Embarrassing. 
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Aug 21, 2020 17:06
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JordanKai posted:And yet the DNC could only get that man who was in that one issue of Spider-Man. Embarrassing. Give obama some credit he was in Norman Osborn's thunderbolts and also at the end of civil war 2
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Aug 21, 2020 17:16
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His most important act was getting Spider-Man on that plane so he could get dunked on by a literal child.
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Aug 21, 2020 17:35
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Endless Mike posted:His most important act was getting Spider-Man on that plane so he could get dunked on by a literal child. Still the best thing comics have ever done, so I'll give the Obama Administration some credit.
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Aug 21, 2020 19:32
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site posted:Give obama some credit he was in Norman Osborn's thunderbolts and also at the end of civil war 2 Sadly neither of those issues sent speculators into a wild, hungering frenzy.
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Aug 21, 2020 20:43
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If only comicsgate was a thing then, evs could've bought a truckload and destroy them on livestream or something
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Aug 21, 2020 21:48
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JordanKai posted:And yet the DNC could only get that man who was in that one issue of Spider-Man. Embarrassing. They’re still reaching out for that Dr Doom vote.
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Aug 22, 2020 00:05
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https://twitter.com/ronmarz/status/1297009188485439488 Has Marz been anti-CG for a while? Because that's pretty cool.
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Aug 22, 2020 15:00
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A quick Twitter search (of "from:@RonMarz Comicsgate if people haven't learned twitter search language) shows that he's been making GBS threads on Comicsgate for about two and a half years, yeah. https://twitter.com/ronmarz/status/962002124166090752
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Aug 22, 2020 15:43
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hadji murad posted:They’re still reaching out for that Dr Doom vote. Well, to be fair that is 100% of the vote share in Latveria.
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Aug 22, 2020 15:49
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Jedit posted:Well, to be fair that is 100% of the vote share in Latveria. They do have universal health care and no one is starving or homeless. Hard to find a job with all the Doombots though.
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Aug 22, 2020 19:19
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seaborgium posted:They do have universal health care and no one is starving or homeless. Hard to find a job with all the Doombots though. Latveria probably has UBI as well.
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Aug 22, 2020 19:26
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Somebody has to repair the doombots, and also all the random superhero violence. You think Dr. Doom has time to fix the wall Luke Cage burst through to get his $200?
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Aug 22, 2020 19:32
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Dr. Doom pays the average citizen to stand around reenacting Medieval times so he can feel smugly superior to the peasants under his command, while Doombots ensure everyone is fed, clothed, and etc. He's basically hired an entire country to LARP D&D with him.
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Aug 22, 2020 19:39
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Skwirl posted:Latveria probably has UBI as well. There's an arc of FF where they actually get rid of Doom and try to replace his regime with something friendlier, only to be driven out because the Latverians ultimately recognise that while Doom is a despot who represses them mercilessly, that repression is the only thing to dislike him for. There's no crime, no unemployment, no starvation, and no other country dares to gently caress with Latveria because Doom protects his people.
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Aug 22, 2020 20:06
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I seem to remember hearing some bad poo poo about Terrific Productions awhile back, can't remember if it was more "not paying creators" stuff or something else or if I'm thinking of some other small press https://twitter.com/JAMALIGLE/status/1297111437685460993?s=20
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Aug 22, 2020 20:39
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Terrific Comics is this:Me Earlier in the Thread posted:1) Rob Liefeld made a lot of bad moves and kept jumping from company to company in the late 1990s Just imagine a really inept version of Bullpen Bulletins style Stan Lee running a start-up in 2020 that is trying to convince established pros to work for exposure, but I guess sucking it up and paying Larry Stroman for a cover if need be.
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Aug 22, 2020 22:30
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