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Peaceful Anarchy posted:They get market share, but not money. They're precisely a way of avoiding charges of being a monopoly by separating the storefront from the game delivery platform (neither of which require exclusivity from devs), while reaping the benefits of customer lock-in. I was in no way saying that it was an altruistic move, it isn't, just that it is explicitly, and intentionally, the opposite of exclusivity. If they don't need the money then why is the 30% cut so vital? They're bleeding everyone they deal with, using the profits from their monopoly to strengthen that monopoly.
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Aug 21, 2020 06:25
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Mehrunes posted:If they don't need the money then why is the 30% cut so vital? They're bleeding everyone they deal with, using the profits from their monopoly to strengthen that monopoly. I don't know what you think my position is but while I think Steam is a decent enough storefront and I think they have some good policies towards devs and buyers they far from above reproach. I believe Steam's 30% cut is way too high (though Epic's 12% is probably too low). But they offer devs a way to continue to use their delivery platform while avoiding the 30% cut. If a dev believes they can market and sell the game elsewhere with a lower cut but want to use Steam, they can. They want money because they're a business and want to make money, I don't think this is good, but within the realm of storefronts I think they're ok. Epic uses its money to lock in exclusives and crowd out competitors. Steam uses its money to offer devs and consumers release valves from their monopoly while betting that they win out in the long run because consumers will prefer to use steam and devs will prefer not to deal with other storefronts and keys. Neither of these is altruistic, they are both ways of competing for market share. Steam's method relies on being a platform worth being on, Epic's relies on throwing money around. Ideally we'd have a truly open platform for delivering digital games, that was separated from any storefront but we don't. There are other places separate from the storefront where I think Valve is much more malicious, namely the commoditization of in game items, but Epic with Fortnite does the same and I don't play any of those games so I don't really know much about all that.
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Aug 21, 2020 06:42
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Peaceful Anarchy posted:??? Sorry, I was just triggered by other people suggesting 30% is fine for a digital distributor and firing wildly. This industry desperately needs collective bargaining.
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Aug 21, 2020 06:56
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Mehrunes posted:If they don't need the money then why is the 30% cut so vital? They're bleeding everyone they deal with, using the profits from their monopoly to strengthen that monopoly. The 30% cut came about right at the start, where devs getting more than 20% return on each game sale was already a miracle thanks to physical retailers being horrible. It's not a flat 30% anymore either (goes down to 20% iirc?), but It's still a lot of money. Let's not kid ourselves though that Epic wouldn't crank up that number if they had a dominating market position. One of the main reasons I don't like Epic is because they started UT4 as a goodwill project, crowdsourced it, and then limbo'ed it as soon as the Fortnite money printer started. 
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Aug 21, 2020 07:19
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RE: Epic, it's pretty simple for me. I can click a button in Steam and launch a game. I can download an installer from gog and click a few buttons to install a game. I can't even install Epic's launcher on my OS and they use their money to pay people to remove multiplatform support. Why wouldn't I cheer for a company to make my Feierabend worse? 
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Aug 21, 2020 07:24
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The Joe Man posted:I simply don't trust them with my payment information. I made an account to try out Fortnight like 2yrs ago and never played it but I had like 20 emails a day from people trying to hack into my account until I finally just deleted it.
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Aug 21, 2020 07:32
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Falcorum posted:The 30% cut came about right at the start, where devs getting more than 20% return on each game sale was already a miracle thanks to physical retailers being horrible. This looks quite selective, you're freely mixing the total digital distributor cut with developer returns. How does the cut digital retailers take compare to brick and mortar stores?
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Aug 21, 2020 07:38
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Mehrunes posted:This looks quite selective, you're freely mixing the total digital distributor cut with developer returns. How does the cut digital retailers take compare to brick and mortar stores? Because there was next to nothing else but Brick and Mortar distribution to compare it with when Steam started. I don't know the details but I'd guess the cuts for other digital stores at the time were either worse or about the same. It's a legacy decision that's been maintained because it's advantageous for Valve to maintain.
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Aug 21, 2020 07:42
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Leal posted:why can't i buy mario on my playstation You're logged into the wrong account, Len. 800peepee51doodoo posted:I guess I never would have even brought this up except that over the last couple of days I have seen so much talk that legit disturbs me regarding the EGS v Apple lawsuit. I dunno where you've been hanging out but the most common opinion I've seen is basically "I hope they somehow both lose".
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Aug 21, 2020 08:38
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Valve has put a lot of effort in supporting Linux and that's why it's easy choice for me between them and Epic because I am in the tiny minority that uses Linux as their daily driver. In the end, though, it's definitely about not really having a good reason to buy on Epic while having lot of small reasons that make me not want to support them. In the end, I usually buy games on these stores for these reasons: - Steam: big pre-existing library, Linux support, easy refunds, reviews, workshop - itch.io: bigger cut to devs (AFAIK the devs are able to choose the amount), Linux support, DRM free - GOG: DRM free, downloadable installers, Linux support (kind of) Now what, apart from prices, does Epic really have to sway me to use their platform? 
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Aug 21, 2020 09:10
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Ditto. People who aren't on Linux really don't know how much work has gone into making things workable. There's almost an infinite amount of goodwill the community has for that level of cross-platform support.
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Aug 21, 2020 10:00
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I can second having approx. hundreds of login attempts the second I did anything on EGS. Also lol at people defending Epic's practices.
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Aug 21, 2020 11:07
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Epic should just have launched their garbage store with a new unreal tournament instead of all this stupid exclusivity crap
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Aug 21, 2020 11:08
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Flimf posted:Epic should just have launched their garbage store with a new unreal tournament instead of all this stupid exclusivity crap They should just move everything to Steam, they can do discounts if they want to do marketing with cheap games. It might not be the right business move for them but it's absolutely 100% what I would prefer, as it is I just don't buy their games outside Steam.
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Aug 21, 2020 11:27
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Private Speech posted:It might not be the right business move for them but it's absolutely 100% what I would prefer customers.txt
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Aug 21, 2020 11:31
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I'd wish they'd have a sale on the Unreal Deal Pack on Steam, because I no longer have a disc drive and I'd love to replay the Unreal Tournament games. But clearly that is never going to happen again. They don't even sell the old Unreal games on the Epic Store!
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Aug 21, 2020 11:35
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I don't care enough about anything EGS has exclusively on offer and every time that almost changes some red flag about the game in question goes up that changes my mind. Epic might not be as evil as Apple but they're shadier than Valve both in terms of business practices as well as their treatment of employees. There might not be any ethical consumption under capitalism but there sure is a creeping apathy about getting over the mild hurdles in the way of installing yet another store front client when I already have steam and gog. I mean I also have the blizzard launcher but I can't be arsed to look at it, that's how much apathy I can generate for a company I don't feel comfortable supporting. I also have origin but I spent more effort typing this out than figuring out how to reinstall it to play Titanfall 2 again, which is exactly no effort at all.
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Aug 21, 2020 12:26
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Like on the one hand Epic treats dev studios well and the financial windfalls they provide can mean the difference between survival and closure for smaller studios, that's good. They treat their actual employees much worse and development of content for Fortnite is such a notoriously hosed sweatshop that Netflix's Patriot Act called them out on it. They exist in a state of perpetual crunch with 70-100 hour work weeks being the norm. That's hosed up. Not that either of these fairly distant concerns really affect me much as an end customer with little willpower or impulse control. A sufficiently strong temptation could drive me to get over my misgivings and just put in the minor amount of work required to sign up but eh, I haven't been struck by any such impulses yet and so I'm in a state of suspended "meh" about the idea of getting EGS.
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Aug 21, 2020 12:50
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Change My View: If you don't like working overtime, don't work there. If you've got Epic Games on your resume you can probably get hired anywhere - so again, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchem. I remember watching the Joe Rogan episode with Hugo Martin (Doom Creative Director) and he talks about working 60+ hours a week and it's extremely plain to see that he's super passionate about the game. That passion is why he chooses to give up a significant amount of his personal time to dedicate to the project. I really feel like people just simply aren't honest with themselves, they lie and tell themselves, "Well I love playing video games, therefore I'm passionate about them and want to make games". Then they get duped into working overtime and complain about how unfair it is. But here's the thing: nobody is forcing you to work there. If it's so bad then quit and go find someone who respects your time better. Like it's perfectly fine if you're not willing to put up with that, I've been worked lovely dev jobs wasting away my summer working overtime. I don't blame anyone for being unhappy working in those conditions. But I'm honestly so sick and tired of people acting like it's their ~only option~ to either work there or starve and die. We live in the age of information, it's not hard to find what working conditions will be like at these huge corporations. I see so many comments online like, "Oh 'passion' is just a buzzword for 'willing to be abused and work endless hours'" and fine, if that's your perspective you're entitled to it... But don't complain that the conditions are exactly what you expect when you get there, then. Don't waste your time and don't waste their time. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 21, 2020 13:42
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Sab669 posted:Change My View: If you don't like working overtime, don't work there. If you've got Epic Games on your resume you can probably get hired anywhere - so again, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchem. lol gently caress off
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Aug 21, 2020 13:46
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Good point, why didn't I think of it like that 
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Aug 21, 2020 13:52
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imagine being the kind of jelly-spined bitch who defends hostile work conditions in 20fucking20
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Aug 21, 2020 14:00
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there is no employer that respects employees' time, or is upfront and honest about expectations and work conditions even if better opportunities existed anywhere else, the percentage of people who could afford to leave a toxic work environment and spend months or years seeking them out would still be statistically insignificant your "view" is a flat denial of obvious facts and basic empathy so gently caress off
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Aug 21, 2020 14:01
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"if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" - a pullstring raggedy andy doll with a wolf of wall street haircut, covered in jizz
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Aug 21, 2020 14:02
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Sab669 posted:Change My View: If you don't like working overtime, don't work there. If you've got Epic Games on your resume you can probably get hired anywhere - so again, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchem. If you've got a top brass position, sure. If you've got a grunt position? Less likely. Especially if you wash out quickly. HR wants to find people that can be abused for extra labour. They want to find the best employees possible, and very short stints at companies tends to be a negative signal. Overtime should ideally never be seen as mandatory. There are few professions where it's more understandable than others, such as accountancy at January-April, end of the tax year, but that's due to external factors. It's slightly more understandable too if it's due to publisher deadlines and the studio cannot afford to piss them off. Epic Games has no such considerations. They fully control their own schedule. It's poor management that leads to too much overtime. If the individual wishes to do overtime, sure. Understandable. There should still be a limit on allowable overtime hours to ensure they maintain a work-life balance. But nobody under ideal circumstances should feel as if they should have to.
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Aug 21, 2020 14:02
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Hwurmp posted:lol gently caress off
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Aug 21, 2020 14:05
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"If you don't like being treated like poo poo, don't work" is the kind of attitude that gives you pauperism and child labor.
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Aug 21, 2020 14:06
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Sab669 posted:Change My View: If you don't like working overtime, don't work there. If you've got Epic Games on your resume you can probably get hired anywhere - so again, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchem. oh did bootlicking simulator come out already?
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Aug 21, 2020 14:15
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Holy moly that’s a take. Anyway, the reason to use EGS is to log in once a week and get their free games. They’ve had some really good free games. Remnant being free was great - a coop game that you could play with anyone who has a computer because the cost barrier goes away. Getting total war: Troy on day 1 for free was also pretty cool, although I haven’t touched it yet. I have never visited their actual storefront so it seems like a pointlessly dumb business model, but that’s capitalism. It reminds me of when GMG was doing their extremely gameable points system and giving away tons of free games five or six years ago. They stopped and I haven’t used them since.
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Aug 21, 2020 14:16
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Oxxidation posted:imagine being the kind of jelly-spined bitch who defends hostile work conditions in 20fucking20 I didn't defend it, I'm just saying some people are willing to work overtime - and that's their right to do so. If you're not, don't pretend you are because you're just going to end up unhappy. Cardiovorax posted:"If you don't like being treated like poo poo, don't work" is the kind of attitude that gives you pauperism and child labor. Ah yes, all those video games famously developed by children. Hwurmp posted:there is no employer that respects employees' time, or is upfront and honest about expectations and work conditions Remote work is now more common than ever before. And you don't need to quit your job before you start looking for a new one. Sab669 fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Aug 21, 2020 |
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Aug 21, 2020 14:19
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Sab669 posted:Ah yes, all those video games famously developed by children.
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Aug 21, 2020 14:22
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Hwurmp posted:lol gently caress off
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Aug 21, 2020 14:24
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Remnant is a great game and I'm glad I grabbed it for free on EGS. It's definitely worth the current sale price (40% off) on Steam right now. The only thing that struck me as super janky was the lip-sync, but I don't really care that much about that. Otherwise it's very polished and well-balanced. I only played it solo but I imagine it would be even better on co-op. I want to go through it again with a different loadout since I basically just upgraded my starter gear the entire game (repeater pistol and shotgun) while swapping the melee weapon out a few times. Remnant and The Surge 2 are now my two favourite "Souls-like" games.
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Aug 21, 2020 14:24
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And for the record I do fully support unionization
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Aug 21, 2020 14:25
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Sab669 posted:Ah yes, all those video games famously developed by children. and today we'll learn where electronic hardware comes from!
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Aug 21, 2020 14:26
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I've got 1 game I bought on EGS because I could get it cheaper than the lowest historical price. The other is Satisfactory, because I didn't want to wait. I have a lots of problems with Steam but it's mostly in how it's ran. I'll be countering that by buying more from itch, GOG, and the actual distributors themselves instead. I have problems with everywhere really but multiple storefronts don't matter cause I use Playnite to link them all together. That all being said, exclusives suck rear end. I'm of the opinion that even Nintendo would see a large increase of sales if they moved to multi-platform. Sony's trying it with HZD. MS is a weird anomaly because they also release to PC\Steam but not to PSX. Side note: Speaking of EGS, Hitman 1 will be free next week.
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Aug 21, 2020 14:30
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Hwurmp posted:and today we'll learn where electronic hardware comes from! That's an entirely different discussion and you don't even have a leg to stand on while posting from the computer/phone you bought lmao. If you're ~~so empathetic~~ to the abused Chinese workers then get off the internet and sell all your electronics
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Aug 21, 2020 14:33
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Sab669 posted:Change My View: If you don't like working overtime, don't work there.
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Aug 21, 2020 14:35
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Sab669 posted:That's an entirely different discussion and you don't even have a leg to stand on while posting from the computer/phone you bought lmao. If you're ~~so empathetic~~ to the abused Chinese workers then get off the internet and sell all your electronics actually I chose to quit those electronics and find some that respect my time better
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Aug 21, 2020 14:37
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Sab669 posted:That's an entirely different discussion and you don't even have a leg to stand on while posting from the computer/phone you bought lmao. If you're ~~so empathetic~~ to the abused Chinese workers then get off the internet and sell all your electronics 
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Aug 21, 2020 14:40
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