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Zodack posted:I understood the basis of Reccoa Londe's character, but I was surprised that someone who was around for them taking in Sarah the first time would be drawn in to Sriocco and, more importantly, gas an entire colony full of innocent people. Seems like there'd be a hard line there. My read was always that she was pretty much on the verge of a nervous breakdown and trying to hook up with Quattro was like her last attempt to keep it together. Once she met ol' Paptimus she went full "gently caress it, I'll do anything to be happy" mode. Like if you've already betrayed all your allies/friends to try to chase your own happiness, you're probably going to be willing to do some pretty horrible things rather than let that happiness go up in smoke. Also yeah Tomino had a lot of, uh, ideas about women in the 80s and 90s.
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Aug 24, 2020 15:07
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Golly gumdrops the animation differences in the Zeta films sure are jarring.
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Aug 24, 2020 16:01
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Kanos posted:My read was always that she was pretty much on the verge of a nervous breakdown and trying to hook up with Quattro was like her last attempt to keep it together. Once she met ol' Paptimus she went full "gently caress it, I'll do anything to be happy" mode. Like if you've already betrayed all your allies/friends to try to chase your own happiness, you're probably going to be willing to do some pretty horrible things rather than let that happiness go up in smoke. She even rationalizes that her defection is fine and good actually by saying that whatever bad poo poo she is ordered to do, the AEUG crew will be good enough to stop her. "It's fine that I'm gassing this colony because I trusted that Kamille and Emma and the bastard Quattro would be able to stop me from doing it, it's even their fault I left in the first place! I wouldn't even be here doing it if they had just been better friends!"
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Aug 24, 2020 16:08
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My read on Reccoa was that she was at least partially psychic whammied by Scirroco, which pushed her totally over the edge. And yeah she's still fully responsible for her actions but at least in the gas attack her choices were to do it or be summarily executed as a spy, and she does try to delay it as much as possible.
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Aug 24, 2020 16:28
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I will never understand why people think Scirocco was capable of psychic "whammies". There is not a single shred of evidence he ever psychically influenced her or anyone else throughout the show, and his entire thing is that he's a really suave, charming but ultimately manipulative guy (Zeta's Char, essentially) and you don't even need to suppose any psychic manipulation to explain a single thing that happens. The one scene every one seems to point to as proof of it is when Reccoa returns from the Jupituris for the first time, saying either "she seemed out of it" and/or "she had a weird Newtype moment" but she remembers and draws the bits of the ship she saw pretty much perfectly (enough so Bright compliments her on her recall), and just refuses to talk to Bright after getting a flashback of Scirocco. There is no Newtype markers of any kind around it, just her thinking of Scirocco and then not telling Bright about it. Which doesn't need psychic manipulation to explain because simple reluctance to talk about something you don't know how to feel about explains it perfectly.
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Aug 24, 2020 16:36
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She does not draw several of the MS in the hangar. She even has a moment where she cannot recollect what she saw.
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Aug 24, 2020 17:18
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No, she doesn't. She draws a stack of pictures, only one of which includes any mobile suit that is shown; which is the Pallas Athena (likely because it's not a design they've seen before), and when Bright asks her what is in the drawing, she says she's not certain because she had to leave so quickly. After which she asks if she can see it again, looks at the drawing and sees Scirocco transposed over it, which triggers a memory of him smiling and then Reccoa says "I can't remember", even though she clearly just remembered Scirocco. Then she leaves, and as she leaves the narrator tells us that she doesn't know why she didn't tell Bright about Scirocco, making it definite she did remember him and that the source of her confusion is her own feelings over Scirocco and not the fact she can't remember him. Edit: actually, double checking the episode again, while Reccoa initially starts in one hanger with her Gelgoog as well as a Hizack that we see, she walks in to another while investigating the ship in which the only mobile suit we see is the lower legs of the unpainted (and probably unfinished) Pallas Athena, so she may not have even not included any mobile suits that were in that hanger in the one picture see see her discussing. tsob fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Aug 24, 2020 |
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Aug 24, 2020 17:29
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tsob posted:I will never understand why people think Scirocco was capable of psychic "whammies". There is not a single shred of evidence he ever psychically influenced her or anyone else throughout the show, and his entire thing is that he's a really suave, charming but ultimately manipulative guy (Zeta's Char, essentially) and you don't even need to suppose any psychic manipulation to explain a single thing that happens. The one scene every one seems to point to as proof of it is when Reccoa returns from the Jupituris for the first time, saying either "she seemed out of it" and/or "she had a weird Newtype moment" but she remembers and draws the bits of the ship she saw pretty much perfectly (enough so Bright compliments her on her recall), and just refuses to talk to Bright after getting a flashback of Scirocco. There is no Newtype markers of any kind around it, just her thinking of Scirocco and then not telling Bright about it. Which doesn't need psychic manipulation to explain because simple reluctance to talk about something you don't know how to feel about explains it perfectly. There is a weird glowing dot of light when he touches her shoulder in the Jupitris, and she definitely seems to be desperately struggling with an uncontrollable compulsion throughout The Call of Darkness. Also, Scirocco is perhaps most famous for being able to psychically break someone's brain.
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Aug 24, 2020 19:14
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Someone had to scrub him off of Zeta 😃😃
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Aug 24, 2020 19:43
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Kanos posted:Also yeah Tomino had a lot of, uh, ideas about women in the 80s and 90s. I still think to this day that Tomino just forgot something in Katejina's arc Like, she was definitely an rear end in a top hat at first about certain stuff (namely, her "gently caress the rich even though it's my home and family being roasted to a crisp among this city"), but... it's like we're missing Point B entirely if she goes from A to C at the end of the series. Indoctrinated by Chronicle? Chronicle having the charisma of a wet-paper bag aside (which other characters do riff him on), all he did was get some rear end in a top hat Zanscare soldiers off her back and shoved her in a mobile suit simulator being like "hey you're good at this." Cyber-Newtype? Seems like a hand-wave but fine, it is a reason, but only in the novelization? ... And that's not even getting into the fact that Tomino was on some smooth brain poo poo when it came to discussing women in general in Victory
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Aug 24, 2020 22:14
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MechaX posted:I still think to this day that Tomino just forgot something in Katejina's arc Katejina's arc only seems to work in the greater context of the decline of the Federation in UC Gundam. Why do so many people from Earth (maybe best highlighted in ZZ) join up with various Space Fascists? The Earth remains in peril, and the Federation can only promise an extension of an untenable status quo. Zanscare's rhetoric on the other hand is full of grand transformative promises and apparently real miracles.
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Aug 24, 2020 22:38
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https://twitter.com/NotRitsuka/status/1297970598568767494?s=19
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Aug 25, 2020 00:37
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She returns and this time she will out fashion that door knob Glemy.
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Aug 25, 2020 01:43
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tsob posted:I will never understand why people think Scirocco was capable of psychic "whammies". There is not a single shred of evidence he ever psychically influenced her or anyone else throughout the show, and his entire thing is that he's a really suave, charming but ultimately manipulative guy (Zeta's Char, essentially) and you don't even need to suppose any psychic manipulation to explain a single thing that happens. The one scene every one seems to point to as proof of it is when Reccoa returns from the Jupituris for the first time, saying either "she seemed out of it" and/or "she had a weird Newtype moment" but she remembers and draws the bits of the ship she saw pretty much perfectly (enough so Bright compliments her on her recall), and just refuses to talk to Bright after getting a flashback of Scirocco. There is no Newtype markers of any kind around it, just her thinking of Scirocco and then not telling Bright about it. Which doesn't need psychic manipulation to explain because simple reluctance to talk about something you don't know how to feel about explains it perfectly. The reason people convince themselves Scirocco was psychically manipulating people is that otherwise you have to face that characters in Zeta just occasionally have hard swings into really stupid poo poo that makes them hard to believe as people, and by characters I mean "mainly all the women".
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Aug 25, 2020 02:00
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Blockhouse posted:The reason people convince themselves Scirocco was psychically manipulating people is that otherwise you have to face that characters in Zeta just occasionally have hard swings into really stupid poo poo that makes them hard to believe as people, and by characters I mean "mainly all the women". And, you know, you get a visual or audio effect whenever Scirocco puts his hands on people, you get scenes of people doing massive emotional pivots when he makes physical contact in a way that clearly draws your attention to Something Weird Happening, Reccoa has all kinds of Something Is Going Wrong Psychically scenes in "The Call of Darkness", the series ends with Kamille being mind-whammied by Paptimus... When a show's last act is all about people with psychic powers, and the tremendously manipulative and ultra-psychic last villain gets people to stop thinking for themselves with a touch, that's maybe a hint that something's going on.
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Aug 25, 2020 02:10
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I mean, it honestly seems weird to me that people don't think an evil, manipulative PUA creep with unprecedentedly powerful empathy magic would be using it to try to brainwash every woman he comes across. It's just such an obvious conclusion to draw from someone like Scirocco having that kind of power, especially given how Newtypes are used thematically as a metaphor for the power of human connections.
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Aug 25, 2020 02:14
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I’m thinking of getting an HG Leo since I sort of felt that getting the HG the origin zaku would be redundant since i already got the char zaku hg the origin. Is there a good HG wing gundam to go with it?
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Aug 25, 2020 02:58
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hostess with the Moltres posted:I’m thinking of getting an HG Leo since I sort of felt that getting the HG the origin zaku would be redundant since i already got the char zaku hg the origin. Is there a good HG wing gundam to go with it? All of the HGAC kits are good ones.
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Aug 25, 2020 03:07
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Can we get a campaign going to make bandai do a model of the aries
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Aug 25, 2020 03:08
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Darth Walrus posted:I mean, it honestly seems weird to me that people don't think an evil, manipulative PUA creep with unprecedentedly powerful empathy magic would be using it to try to brainwash every woman he comes across. It's just such an obvious conclusion to draw from someone like Scirocco having that kind of power, especially given how Newtypes are used thematically as a metaphor for the power of human connections. I've watched the scene of Reccoa meeting Scirocco aboard the Jupitris several times now and I can't see any weird glowing dot, and there's on Newtype sounds or visuals of any kind during the scene where she meets Scirocco; or the scene of her talking to Bright on board the Argama afterwards. Where there is some Newtype sounds going on is in "Call of Darkness", but the episode also has (a) Kamille hearing the same Newtype sound and (b) several scenes of Reccoa that have no Newtype stuff going on at all but do make it clear that she's tired of life aboard the Argama regardless. When Fa goes to visit her in the infirmary, she is clearly disappointed that it was Kamille sent her, as Fa and Reccoa go to her room she outright says that she didn't join AEUG for any kind of idealism and only did so because she didn't find the danger she liked within the Federation and then in her room she laments how no-one is waiting for her there. After which, she hear some kind of Newtype noise and leaves to go pilot, while brusquely brushing Char off before she does so. When she is out piloting though, Kamille contacts her and she realizes that she's doing something weird, and thanks him for waking her up. After which she can't bring herself to fight Yazan, and thinks he is the source of all the Newtype weirdness going on while Yazan himself is freaked out by Reccao's behaviour. And during all of that Scirocco is never shown doing anything, not actively and not passively. He isn't even shown during any of it at all. When Reccoa meets him again there is no Newtype stuff, when he manipulates Sarah there is no Newtype stuff, when he unsuccessfully tries to get Jerid and Maour to his side there is no weird Newtype stuff. The only time there's weird Newtype stuff he isn't shown to be doing anything, and all his evil, manipulative creeping is just through words and emotions like anyone else does it; not Newtype "whammies". Which doesn't make it any less manipulative or creepy, and frankly, is a better way to do it and highlight how awful he is. I also definitely wouldn't call Scirocco "unprecedentedly powerful" in a series where Haman and Kamille appear to be roughly his equal in the same empathy magic, and Kamille starts throwing out much the same kind of odd and basically unforeshadowed powers during finale. Is Kamille whammying all the people that care about him too, given that he is able to use his connection to them to hold The O still during the finale? tsob fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Aug 25, 2020 |
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Aug 25, 2020 03:19
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Stairmaster posted:Can we get a campaign going to make bandai do a model of the aries A box set of all the Leo derived suits(so basically everything that isn't a Gundam or Tallgeese variant), if we can get one of the Maganac Corps, this shouldn't be too hard to do
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Aug 25, 2020 03:44
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Screw flying suits, I’m over here pleading for them to make models of the Pisces and Cancer.
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Aug 25, 2020 03:47
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Oops, meant to post that in the gunpla thread. Anyway I've been watching Mobile Suit Gundam at the same time as Dougram (which is about as MSG and Zeta combined) and it's neat seeing how Gundam influenced Dougram. The last episode I watched was Doan's Island which was great. The plot didn't quite make sense if you think about it too much but it was a good self contained story. Doan's invincible rock throwing technique was amazing.
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Aug 25, 2020 03:47
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I’m sure this has been discussed before, but should I watch the dub or sub for Gundam Wing and G Gundam?
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Aug 25, 2020 04:47
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Sub for both imo. The dubs for both are good for the time but really dont hold up, plus they have some translation issues.
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Aug 25, 2020 04:50
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hostess with the Moltres posted:I’m thinking of getting an HG Leo since I sort of felt that getting the HG the origin zaku would be redundant since i already got the char zaku hg the origin. Is there a good HG wing gundam to go with it? Theres also a sandrock and an upcoming heavyarms, so hopefully we get a shenlong and deathscythe.
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Aug 25, 2020 04:53
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hostess with the Moltres posted:Oops, meant to post that in the gunpla thread. Anyway I've been watching Mobile Suit Gundam at the same time as Dougram (which is about as MSG and Zeta combined) and it's neat seeing how Gundam influenced Dougram. The last episode I watched was Doan's Island which was great. The plot didn't quite make sense if you think about it too much but it was a good self contained story. Doan's invincible rock throwing technique was amazing. Can you link the gunplay thread tia
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Aug 25, 2020 04:58
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Endorph posted:Theres a wing and a wing zero tv, both are good. No wing zero endless waltz though. Well knowing that there're translation issues for the dub makes the choice a lot easier. I'm willing to give dubs for animated things a chance since I find them less jarring than dubs for live action stuff but the translation of the text is the most important factor imo. Here's the gunpla thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3678195
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Aug 25, 2020 05:14
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What kind of translation issues, out of interest? I've never heard complaint about either dub before, so is it just minor things that don't change anything of significance, odd phrasing where context makes the intended meaning obvious regardless or major flubs that change what the audience is presented entirely?
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Aug 25, 2020 05:22
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Endorph posted:Sub for both imo. The dubs for both are good for the time but really dont hold up, plus they have some translation issues. I actually watched the dub for G not that long ago, and I'd say it still works. G Gundam's tone is intentionally over-the-top and ridiculous, but sincere, never treating its world as a gag no matter how goofy it gets. The dub's old kung-fu movie vibe fits that perfectly, especially since it feels like one of the kung fu dubs that was really trying. Plus, the dub had Chibodee's mother sing him "America the Beautiful" every night as he went to sleep, and that's just too perfect to leave behind. As for Wing... well, that's more complicated, especially as the thread seems to be at the "Wing is unironically a good show" point of the Gundam Wing Opinion Cycle, and I tend to do best in the "Wait, this is just bad" or the "But also it kind of owns in how insane it is?" Gundam Wing discussions, but generally the dub's weirdness (especially with General Septum) is held to help keep focus during Wing's many dull stretches.
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Aug 25, 2020 05:25
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Honestly I watched Wing recently and there was never a single dull moment whatsoever. Every episode advanced the plot, had something completely insane, or both.
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Aug 25, 2020 05:27
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Endorph posted:ironically, the stardust memory manga is as good as the stardust memory ova is bad Does Cima live?
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Aug 25, 2020 05:27
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MonsieurChoc posted:Does Cima live?
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Aug 25, 2020 05:29
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Endorph posted:Unsure but it does add a random cadet who runs off to become a pirate just because shes overwhelmed with lesbian lust for cima 
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Aug 25, 2020 05:32
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for G sub vs dub i just kinda shrug, because i don't remember the dub putting me off too much even though i'm 100% sure it's dated and canadian as hell. you do at least have to listen to both tracks for the Chibodee clown ep because of the drastically different music choices. Wing uhhhh, i have flipped tracks while doing my first watch of the show and it really bugs me how the dub just has all these minor characters running around with zero voice direction and a markedly worse Une. in another discussion it also came up how the boys sound significantly older in the dub, which i'd agree with. idk, i get the nostalgia angle and also how (similar to G) the wildness of the dub kinda syncs with the show's tone, but it feels way more like a thing for a second watch or rewatch than to take in the show.
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Aug 25, 2020 05:35
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hostess with the Moltres posted:Well knowing that there're translation issues for the dub makes the choice a lot easier. I'm willing to give dubs for animated things a chance since I find them less jarring than dubs for live action stuff but the translation of the text is the most important factor imo. Hold on. Listen to the English narration at the start of each episode, at least. That poo poo's gold.
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Aug 25, 2020 05:47
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I loving hate Noin's Japanese VA so I vastly prefer her dub voice. Relena is also better in the dub. Wufei has a better Japanese VA than dub one. Since I watched Fushigi Yuugi before Wing I have a hard time not hearing Hotohori coming out of Zech's mouth or Tamahome from Heero. It was a weird whiplash moment for me as a teen. Otherwise I'd say it's a matter of personal preference. The translation issues don't bother me much in the dub and I think some character interactions or moments are better in it and vice versa - almost everything with Une is better in Japanese.
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Aug 25, 2020 05:58
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MonsieurChoc posted:Does Cima live? No, she gets killed by Bask in the final battle. Also, the english translation has gotten to the Colony being redirected at earth.
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Aug 25, 2020 06:03
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Tulalip Tulips posted:I loving hate Noin's Japanese VA so I vastly prefer her dub voice. Relena is also better in the dub. Wufei has a better Japanese VA than dub one. Since I watched Fushigi Yuugi before Wing I have a hard time not hearing Hotohori coming out of Zech's mouth or Tamahome from Heero. It was a weird whiplash moment for me as a teen. Tamahome will always be Solid Snake to me.
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Aug 25, 2020 07:19
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Tulalip Tulips posted:I loving hate Noin's Japanese VA so I vastly prefer her dub voice. Relena is also better in the dub. Wufei has a better Japanese VA than dub one. Since I watched Fushigi Yuugi before Wing I have a hard time not hearing Hotohori coming out of Zech's mouth or Tamahome from Heero. It was a weird whiplash moment for me as a teen. Wufei's VA was better as Durandal in Seed Destiny since he's one of those guys with a cool voice but not really great at emoting. Durandal is Mr. stoic and reserved so it works out well. Also I watched the FY dub so I'm having a wonderful time trying to imagine Brian Drummond (Zechs in the dub, also most notable for being Saiyan Saga Vegeta in the Ocean DBZ dub we all grew up with) as Hotohori. The FY dub holds up! I miss Mary-Elizabeth McGlynn. Best voice for best character (Nuriko).
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Aug 25, 2020 07:33
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