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Crow Sting. Although I think Hulk Hogan is a more successful gimmick than Undertaker.
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Aug 23, 2020 06:02
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If your talking about mix of cartoon/over the top with pro-wrestling than after the Undertaker your looking at Tiger Mask and Liger As actual wrestling gimmicks Undertaker is way behind El Santo
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Aug 23, 2020 06:03
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It’s tricky to separate the gimmick from the wrestler. I might say Ultimate Warrior. The sheer insanity of his presentation helped cover up many shortcomings.
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Aug 23, 2020 06:12
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I would argue that Undertaker is the best example of making a poo poo gimmick work instead of being the best gimmick. You put the ridiculous giant tie on almost anyone else and they're gone in six months to a year. They were lucky Mark decided to make the gimmick his life and really bought into it or it would have absolutely flopped.
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Aug 23, 2020 06:48
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_JTzEppKy8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rblh_0d7Qlw
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Aug 23, 2020 06:58
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NikkolasKing posted:Undertaker is often said to be the best/most successful gimmick ever in wrestling history. Tiger Mask and Jushin Thunder Liger both have to be up there.
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Aug 23, 2020 12:53
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NikkolasKing posted:Undertaker is often said to be the best/most successful gimmick ever in wrestling history. Maybe not the most successful, but the Big Bossman character has to be up there. Then you'd also have to look at gimmicks like The Road Warriors and The Rock-N-Roll Express, which I'd argue are more successful than the Undertaker's, purely on the sheer number of imitators they inspired.
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Aug 23, 2020 13:16
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Davros1 posted:Maybe not the most successful, but the Big Bossman character has to be up there. Then you'd also have to look at gimmicks like The Road Warriors and The Rock-N-Roll Express, which I'd argue are more successful than the Undertaker's, purely on the sheer number of imitators they inspired. For similar reasons you have to at least entertain an arguement for Gorgeous George (not the WCW lady, the original one).
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Aug 23, 2020 17:52
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SiKboy posted:For similar reasons you have to at least entertain an arguement for Gorgeous George (not the WCW lady, the original one). True
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Aug 23, 2020 18:44
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Is El Santo a gimmick because he got all those movies and comics and so forth
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Aug 23, 2020 19:05
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Gimmick is kinda a broad term? Isn’t every wrestlers’ character a gimmick? Is the Undertaker more of a gimmick than Hulk Hogan’s character? Or Steve Austin? Biker-taker at least was less of a gimmick than either of those.
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Aug 23, 2020 19:06
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Davros1 posted:Maybe not the most successful, but the Big Bossman character has to be up there. Then you'd also have to look at gimmicks like The Road Warriors and The Rock-N-Roll Express, which I'd argue are more successful than the Undertaker's, purely on the sheer number of imitators they inspired. Were the Road Warriors a gimimck, ever? They borrowed their look from Mad Max, but they were just two Minnesota tough guys billed as two Chicago tough guys with spikey shoulder pads.
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Aug 23, 2020 19:08
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What are some matches that you were hyped for because the booking was so strong for everyone involved going in that you really didn't know what was going to happen? - Crush vs. Yokozuna. I was a big Kona Crush mark as a kid and WWF did a good job of protecting him well enough for as long as that face gimmick lasted. The only major loss he had was Doink, thanks to trickery and weapon use. Going into the USS Intrepid bodyslam challenge, he was the clear favorite as a way to distract from Luger's sudden face turn. So when they announced Crush vs. Yokozuna for the title a week in advance, I really had no idea what to expect and I was pumped. In the end, it led to Crush's injury angle and heel turn where he and Yokozuna became a team. He did get a clean win over Bret Hart out of it, at least. - Ahmed Johnson vs. Vader. Before both guys' careers imploded, there was a time when this came off as a major irresistible force vs. immovable object bout. Ahmed was being pushed as the next big thing. Meanwhile, Vader was still being treated as an absolute killer and the most vicious heel in the company. Had things worked out differently, this could have been one of the company's biggest money matches at the time. Here, I believe it was a King of the Ring qualifier. It ended with Ahmed having it won, only to be taken out by Owen Hart with a top-rope cast shot while the ref was distracted. This gave us the infamous Ahmed/Goldust mouth-to-mouth follow-up. The match happened a couple more times after that. Months later, they had a Shotgun Saturday Night bout that ended with Mankind interfering. Months after that, Ahmed cleanly beat Vader because Vader's career was eating poo poo just slightly more at that point. - Pentagon Dark vs. Matanza Cueto. The second season of Lucha Underground built towards a title match that was honestly a bit too big. Earlier in the season, Matanza hosed up Pentagon so badly that he needed to be rebuilt. Pentagon went under a transformation that was coinciding with the feel that he was going to eventually be the ace of the company. At the same time, Matanza's title reign felt like it needed more time to breathe before ending. They put together a huge match where neither man was in a position to lose. What we got was a weird match where Pentagon acted like the hoss, throwing Matanza around. Matanza still won, thanks to interference, but looked beatable for the first time. Pentagon reacted to his loss by beating the hell out of his manager Vampiro. When Matanza did lose the title, it was in a far less pleasing way than if he just dropped it to Pentagon.
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Aug 23, 2020 19:47
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Red posted:Were the Road Warriors a gimimck, ever? They borrowed their look from Mad Max, but they were just two Minnesota tough guys billed as two Chicago tough guys with spikey shoulder pads. I think it could be considered a gimmick since they inspired so many to rip them off.
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Aug 23, 2020 19:50
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Dacap posted:Gimmick is kinda a broad term? Isn’t every wrestlers’ character a gimmick? I'd argue Biker-taker isn't less of a gimmick than Stone Cold, it's literally the SAME gimmick.
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Aug 23, 2020 20:08
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Stone Cold preferred vehicles with 4-wheels, so um actually, you’ll find they’re totally different gimmicks.
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Aug 23, 2020 21:30
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Stuff like Stone Cold, Inoki, and even Andre are all gimmicks even if some of the people are so deep into them they live it as real life. The Undertaker though is the biggest example of a gimmick that is very much 100% cartoon and actually working for a long time
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Aug 23, 2020 21:34
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Gaz-L posted:I'd argue Biker-taker isn't less of a gimmick than Stone Cold, it's literally the SAME gimmick. Eh, I dunno. Stone Cold worked because it was a classic story of, well, class. A Blue Collar working man against his tyrannical boss. Biker Taker was an "average Joe" who loved him some motorcycles and his chew and had a foul mouth but I'm sure there have been a lot of gimmicks like that. I don't think the anti-authority working man but this all just describes The Sandman who people have said Austin ripped off. But the heart of Stone Cold seems pretty different from the heart of the Biker Taker gimmick to me.
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Aug 23, 2020 23:15
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Since Dominick has made his real debut as a WWE Superstar™, I've revisited the "Lineal Custody of Dominick" championship. It was last listed here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3898193&pagenumber=19&perpage=40#post499134671 Cagematch is woefully incomplete. Taking Cagematch alone at it's word, Elias would still actually hold custody. Outside of the Royal Rumble, and a single no-contest with Shinsuke at a house show in January, Elias has actually won everything he's participated in since winning custody according to Cagematch. However, his history stops after the first round of the recent IC Title tournament. IDK why. I actually had to go to WWE.com to work out what happened -- Elias beat Corbin in round 1, but subsequently lost to AJ Styles. (AJ Styles's match history on Cagematch misses this too.) I'm going to count this as a title change on 19 May 2020. Still an impressive 9-month run. 2019/08/20: Elias 2020/05/19: AJ Styles (estimated date) 2020/05/26: Drew Gulak 2020/07/02: AJ Styles 2020/08/21: Jeff Hardy
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Aug 24, 2020 15:14
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Has there ever been a female wrestler that has had a male valet? Like an obviously beautiful scantily clad man? Dalton Castle has his boys but has a woman ever done this?
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Aug 24, 2020 18:00
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:Has there ever been a female wrestler that has had a male valet? Like an obviously beautiful scantily clad man? Dalton Castle has his boys but has a woman ever done this? Penelope Ford and Kip Sabian come out as each other's valet/managers.
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Aug 24, 2020 18:02
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i think police/polize in Oz Academy is a stooge for the heels
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Aug 24, 2020 18:23
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:Has there ever been a female wrestler that has had a male valet? Like an obviously beautiful scantily clad man? Dalton Castle has his boys but has a woman ever done this? The Beautiful People had Cute Kip (Billy Gunn) as their valet in TNA.
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Aug 24, 2020 20:04
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So the two most prominent male valets were both called Kip.
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Aug 24, 2020 20:25
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:Has there ever been a female wrestler that has had a male valet? Like an obviously beautiful scantily clad man? Dalton Castle has his boys but has a woman ever done this? PMS (Pretty Mean Sisters) had Sean Stasiak under the name Meat
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Aug 24, 2020 20:26
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IronCladBurrito posted:"Lineal Custody of Dominick" Other than the fact that's a thing in the first place, the most interesting thing about this is that it's never gone back to Rey. I wonder if Dominick will ever win Lineal Custody of himself.
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Aug 25, 2020 03:54
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:Has there ever been a female wrestler that has had a male valet? Like an obviously beautiful scantily clad man? Dalton Castle has his boys but has a woman ever done this? Plenty of the girls of WOW do this.
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Aug 25, 2020 05:18
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oh but seriously I posted:i think police/polize in Oz Academy is a stooge for the heels POLICE isn't really scantily clad though; he just tries to get involved in all of Seikigun's matches and normally ends up looking like a massive fool which is great; since that's what POLICE is great at. Dude managed to somehow make a 22+ year career as a manager in Joshi wrestling; have to respect that.
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Aug 25, 2020 11:04
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Is it fair to go back and say those contemporaries who dismissed ECW as garbage wrestling and a fad were entirely 100% correct and not just old fogeys? With that said given at the time those vritucs were drowned out of me in my youth being like "its so aedome" only for none of it to hold up do we run that risk again of dismissing critics when history will vindicate them?
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Aug 25, 2020 19:50
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Lid posted:Is it fair to go back and say those contemporaries who dismissed ECW as garbage wrestling and a fad were entirely 100% correct and not just old fogeys? In terms of the in-ring product? Sure. But ECW's overall presentation was something multiple companies ripped off for years afterward and it, along with the booking, made a lot of those guys look way better and more important than they actually were (Public Enemy being the primary example of this). Not to mention that ECW's loudest critic booked a promotion that used some of the same wrestlers and was also super trashy, but in a 1980s way as opposed to a 1990s way.
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Aug 25, 2020 19:56
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I shouldve stated that - yeah i meant in-ring.
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Aug 25, 2020 20:00
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They had valid pts when it came to garbage wrestling up to a point, but ECW was smart enough to offer other stuff.
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Aug 25, 2020 20:09
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Like THE NIGHT KIMONA WANALAYA DANCED ATOP THE ECW ARENA
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Aug 25, 2020 20:17
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In terms of in-ring, some of the best wrestlers of the late nineties passed through ECW. Yes, there was some absolute trash, but there was also Psicosis vs Rey Jr from the days when Rey's knees worked, Jerry Lynn vs RVD, Tanaka vs Awesome, and Super Crazy vs Tajiri.
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Aug 25, 2020 20:35
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Lamuella posted:In terms of in-ring, some of the best wrestlers of the late nineties passed through ECW. Yes, there was some absolute trash, but there was also Psicosis vs Rey Jr from the days when Rey's knees worked, Jerry Lynn vs RVD, Tanaka vs Awesome, and Super Crazy vs Tajiri. Not to mention Chris Jericho and Mick Foley and the Dudleys, all of whom went on to draw money elsewhere.
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Aug 25, 2020 20:40
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Who do you consider to be a "lifer" in WWE? As in, you would be shocked by them choosing to leave and equally shocked by them being released? There's obvious answers like Seth Rollins. I'd also say that Bray is given enough creative freedom and gets the results WWE is looking for often enough that neither he or they will get unhappy with the situation. Baron Corbin simply wouldn't survive in the outside world and there's something about him WWE adore, god knows what. I think he's there until he retires from the ring.
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Aug 25, 2020 20:51
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I don't really see any particular non-lifers aside from people who might get released one day and have no choice but to leave, or people who are using WWE as much as WWE is using them like Brock. edit: Like, they will do what they have to do to hold onto The New Day and other talents seen as non-evil, and all of those people like KO, Cesaro, Zayn, etc. would already be gone if they didn't want to stay. As for people who will defend WWE to their dying breath, Charlotte, Titus, Miz
Cavauro fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Aug 25, 2020 |
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Aug 25, 2020 21:04
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El Gallinero Gros posted:They had valid pts when it came to garbage wrestling up to a point, but ECW was smart enough to offer other stuff. Considering the way WCW and especially WWE treated workers, they probably didn't want to say anything about lousy matches, unhealthy practices, and rampant drug abuse on air.
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Aug 25, 2020 21:17
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Lid posted:Is it fair to go back and say those contemporaries who dismissed ECW as garbage wrestling and a fad were entirely 100% correct and not just old fogeys? With that said given at the time those vritucs were drowned out of me in my youth being like "its so aedome" only for none of it to hold up do we run that risk again of dismissing critics when history will vindicate them? I dunno, it was what it was. It relied far too heavily on the walk and brawl but even saying that I'd argue it is too strong to say they were 100% right. They had a point to some extent but god I'd sooner watch a random episode of Hardcore TV than about any other weekly TV show in the last 30 years of US wrestling. Was Sabu a perfect wrestler? Nah. Does he stand up next to modern high flyers? Clearly not but if you take him in the context of the time he was revolutionary and the botches and such was entirely a part of the appeal, he was so loving wild and uncontrollable. ECW radically changed TV wrestling in the US by making it cool which you cannot overstate considering how chronically uncool WWE is these days. The presentation side of things is really where they had the most impact.
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Aug 25, 2020 21:23
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Lamuella posted:Who do you consider to be a "lifer" in WWE? As in, you would be shocked by them choosing to leave and equally shocked by them being released?
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Aug 25, 2020 21:30
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