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That's just asking for a high number of RMA's if you ask me. Some people are less careful with their electronics than others.
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Aug 26, 2020 21:07
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I'm not against change but what does this 12 pin do that 2x6 or even 2x8 connectors can't.
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Aug 26, 2020 21:23
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Stanley Tucheetos posted:I'm not against change but what does this 12 pin do that 2x6 or even 2x8 connectors can't. They did it to free up space on the board.
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Aug 26, 2020 21:30
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The cable is small leading to better cable management, can be standardized across the stack for cost savings, frees up space on the board and has no actual downside because it will be bundled with the adapter until it's standard, like any other connector standard change. I don't get why people are upset over it, but this seems to happen every single time we move to a new connection standard of any kind, so maybe it's just human nature.
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Aug 26, 2020 21:34
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You also don't need all those extra grounds that 2 x 8 pin connectors give
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Aug 26, 2020 21:39
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Taima posted:I don't get why people are upset over it, but this seems to happen every single time we move to a new connection standard of any kind, so maybe it's just human nature. People are hardwired to resist change
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Aug 26, 2020 21:48
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It seems really weird though, the connector is so small, it can't possibly be able to carry more current per pin than the regular PCIe connector, so what on earth was wrong with a regular 8 pin? Edit: Hm, I didn't realise the only thing an 8-pin gains over a 6 is 2 extra ground lines HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Aug 26, 2020 |
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Aug 26, 2020 21:51
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Taima posted:I don't get why people are upset over it, but this seems to happen every single time we move to a new connection standard of any kind, so maybe it's just human nature. I don't think people are actually upset over the concept, just initially freaked out because the 12-pin can carry so much power that they assumed that the 30-series will be like 500W cards or something. Otherwise the new connector is strictly superior to the old one, so long as they don't throw it on cards that previously were 1x6 pin, as some lower-end PSUs won't have the 2x8 pins needed to connect up to the 12 pin adapter, which would force those people to get a new (and probably needlessly more powerful) PSU. HalloKitty posted:It seems really weird though, the connector is so small, it can't possibly be able to carry more current per pin than the regular PCIe connector, so what on earth was wrong with a regular 8 pin? Thing is, on an 8 pin connector only 3 pins are actually carrying +12v. Two of them are for sensing and the other three are grounds. So with 2x8 you get 6 actual power pins. The new 12 pin connector has 6 power pins straight off, meaning it's a reduction of 4 pins (apparently the sense pins aren't needed?). The specs also require better quality contacts on both ends, and apparently specifies 16AWG (minimum?). The upshot of which means that, yeah, they can push 600W through it--presumably at 100W/pin, where the PCIe 8 pin spec is limited to 150W, or 50W/pin. DrDork fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Aug 26, 2020 |
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Aug 26, 2020 21:52
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Last I remember, those Molex Microfit are rated like 5A only. How much of those pins are ground? --edit: Molex site says 10.5A.
Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Aug 26, 2020 |
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Aug 26, 2020 21:54
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I don't care too much about the connector, but did any standards group actually approve this, or was it just nvidia telling some PSU makers "here's our new connector thanks"
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Aug 26, 2020 21:54
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HalloKitty posted:It seems really weird though, the connector is so small, it can't possibly be able to carry more current per pin than the regular PCIe connector, so what on earth was wrong with a regular 8 pin? the short pcb means the power connectors don't sit at the end of the card, and it would be really ugly to have 2x or 3x 8pins sticking out of the middle of the card the new connector means you have one cable coming out at a neat 45 degree angle
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Aug 26, 2020 21:55
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Inept posted:I don't care too much about the connector, but did any standards group actually approve this, or was it just nvidia telling some PSU makers "here's our new connector thanks" The bits we've gotten so far suggest this was NVidia on their own, possibly because going through spec groups like PCI-SIG takes loving forever. So, uh, yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it works out.
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Aug 26, 2020 22:01
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I actually really like the new connection. I'm just a gamer or whatever but I would much rather plug one cable into a card than two and I like the fact that its condensed nicely.
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Aug 26, 2020 22:01
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I'm guessing only the Founder's Edition cards will use this anyway?
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Aug 26, 2020 22:19
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FuturePastNow posted:I'm guessing only the Founder's Edition cards will use this anyway? I wouldn't be surprised to see it on a lot of the AIB 3080/3090s, but probably not on the xx70 and below. Assuming they pack in the adapter cable, they might as well start getting people used to the idea.
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Aug 26, 2020 22:32
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lllllllllllllllllll posted:That's just asking for a high number of RMA's if you ask me. Some people are less careful with their electronics than others. Still won't be as wide as a double or triple slot card.
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Aug 26, 2020 22:49
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Stanley Tucheetos posted:I'm not against change but what does this 12 pin do that 2x6 or even 2x8 connectors can't. If it helps any, the new 12 pin connection is seriously loving tiny. It is like half the size of an 8 pin. A goon posted a picture earlier in the thread. If that became the norm it would be a bit easier to fiddle with. 
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Aug 26, 2020 22:54
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If the current PCIe power connectors were terribly onerous and/or difficult to deal with I could it making some sense but they're not so its kinda coming off as pointless to me.
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Aug 27, 2020 00:21
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The point is to get rid of the stupid multi-plug thing for GPUs. I don't care about cable management BS but a lot of people do and that's probably a factor. We're coming up on a period where it's possible that we see a shift to ATX12VO or something and it'd be nice to see some other things revised as we go along.
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Aug 27, 2020 00:28
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FS could really use DLSS2
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Aug 27, 2020 00:30
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:If the current PCIe power connectors were terribly onerous and/or difficult to deal with I could it making some sense but they're not so its kinda coming off as pointless to me. I doubt it's really aimed at the 1x6 pin xx60s and such. We just had an entire conversation about the possibility of them releasing a bespoke card specifically aimed at multi-GPU compute setups, and I imagine such a crowd would very much appreciate being able to run 4 small cables to power their 4 3080s rather than 8 fatties. I also imagine it'll also be something that OEMs appreciate, since it should simplify making prebuilts eventually by standardizing everything onto one cable, instead of having to worry about available pin counts.
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Aug 27, 2020 00:35
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is Nvidia going to keep that connector to themselves or is it going to be freely available for others? Would be pretty neat if it took over.
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Aug 27, 2020 00:36
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The connector being small is neat but it's a whole lot of work for convenience - you fiddle with it once when you install it.
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Aug 27, 2020 00:38
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Did none of you watch the design philosophy video where they literally say they made the new connector to free up PCB space since they have less space because the cooling design changed? They spelled out exactly why they did it.
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Aug 27, 2020 00:42
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Sininu posted:is Nvidia going to keep that connector to themselves or is it going to be freely available for others? Would be pretty neat if it took over. apparently it's an existing connector manufactured by molex, so anyone can just buy them and match whatever pinout nvidia is using shrike82 posted:The connector being small is neat but it's a whole lot of work for convenience - you fiddle with it once when you install it. as i said above i think it's mostly for aesthetics, their design calls for the power connectors to be in the middle of the card and it would be ugly with standard connectors i couldn't care less about how my pc looks but a lot of people care about that stuff
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Aug 27, 2020 00:42
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shrike82 posted:FS could really use DLSS2 It's actually one of the games where DLSS 2.0 would be least useful, it's extremely CPU bound in performance. On my 2080 Ti at 3440x1440, DLSS 2.0 would grant me roughly 0 FPS as I'm nearly always CPU bound on a 3900X. The game needs DX12 more than anything else to help with multi-core CPU performance, though I don't know if DX12 can fix the fundamental flaw of all sim games of the main logic thread getting slammed. DLSS 2 would be funny in this game though, as the 2060 and 2080 Ti would likely be close to equal in performance.
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Aug 27, 2020 00:45
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You're still getting a 30% drop in framerate going from 1440p to 4K so GPU still matters
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Aug 27, 2020 00:49
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shrike82 posted:FS could really use DLSS2 The 2080 Super seems like a legit sick card tbh
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Aug 27, 2020 00:51
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Beautiful Ninja posted:though I don't know if DX12 can fix the fundamental flaw of all sim games of the main logic thread getting slammed. you'd think they would have figured out by now that framerate and simulation rate can be decoupled shooters usually simulate at 20-60hz but that doesn't stop us rendering at >100fps with interpolation between simulation steps
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Aug 27, 2020 00:51
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repiv posted:you'd think they would have figured out by now that framerate and simulation rate can be decoupled That said, one of the differences between shooters and sims is that we're used to--and generally just accept--bullshit interpolation "misses" like getting shot behind walls or whatever because the background engine isn't synced with what's actually displaying. Try that to any real extent (I'd guess a 1:2 ratio would be about the most you could get away with) with the guys who build $10k custom PC cockpits to fly flight sims and you'd have a loving riot on your hands about how terrible the sim is. Could still probably get some performance back, but maybe not as much as one would think.
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Aug 27, 2020 00:55
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i'm not a sim guy, but is there really anything in a flight sim where time being fudged by a few milliseconds one way or another would actually be observable? seems like anything you do in a plane would take quite a few seconds to actually have any effect
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Aug 27, 2020 00:58
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Getting shot behind walls has little to do with interpolation. It happens because of networking latency. Man shoots you when you're in the open, but latency from man -> server -> you is long enough that you see yourself behind the wall when you die. Flight sims would absolutely be a prime candidate for decoupling the physics integration from the rest of the game, or for temporalizing a lot of computations - the way wind affects the aircraft THIS frame isn't really important, if you get it right over 10 frames you're going to be perfectly accurate because real life planes can't roll 90 degrees in a tenth of a second.
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Aug 27, 2020 01:05
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K8.0 posted:The point is to get rid of the stupid multi-plug thing for GPUs. If we're really coming up on a standards shift for cabling/connectors then it seems doubly stupid to do a new proprietary connector now. Everyone is going to be forced to use some sort of adapter anyways right? DrDork posted:a bespoke card specifically aimed at multi-GPU compute setups, and I imagine such a crowd would very much appreciate being able to run 4 small cables to power their 4 3080s rather than 8 fatties...I also imagine it'll also be something that OEMs appreciate, shrike82 posted:The connector being small is neat but it's a whole lot of work for convenience - you fiddle with it once when you install it. Yeah this. These sorts of connectors likely get messed with once or twice during the whole life of the machine. Doesn't seem worth it at all to me to make a whole new one that is proprietary because "maybe its kinda nice". AirRaid posted:They spelled out exactly why they did it. If that is their reasoning then it seems pretty dumb to me. PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Aug 27, 2020 |
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Aug 27, 2020 01:06
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on another note good luck to the VR sim people planning to play MSFS when VR support gets added async reprojection is gonna be working overtime to get that to "90hz"
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Aug 27, 2020 01:08
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yeah i was interested in FS2020 from the announcement to about 3 seconds later when they said "actually we won't support vr at launch. but now that you mention it we'll think about it probably" it's gonna be a shitshow lmao
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Aug 27, 2020 01:31
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AirRaid posted:Did none of you watch the design philosophy video where they literally say they made the new connector to free up PCB space since they have less space because the cooling design changed? I was going to comment this because lol it's like the bare minimum to do is...watch the video?
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Aug 27, 2020 01:37
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Well obviously but it doesn't seem worth it at all to create a new proprietary connector to do so. This is the dumbest post in this thread in a while good lord. Smaller connector, better space efficiency, same power delivery. There is zero negative to this. A PSU supporting this without an adapter is as simple as what Silverstone did, providing a new modular cable. If you're still using a non-modular PSU, you use an adapter. quote:If we're really coming up on a standards shift for cabling/connectors then it seems doubly stupid to do a new proprietary connector now. Everyone is going to be forced to use some sort of adapter anyways right? Especially lmao at this. The power connector is what, almost 20 years old? When do you want a new power connector buddy? Y'all buy a new GPU every 6 months anyway don't really see the problem.
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Aug 27, 2020 01:47
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ive been playing flightsim. crashes a lot. 30fps is more than enough for it with VRR, it aint a shooter.
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Aug 27, 2020 01:49
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lllllllllllllllllll posted:That's just asking for a high number of RMA's if you ask me. Some people are less careful with their electronics than others. My first thought was that it looks a bit fragile
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Aug 27, 2020 01:50
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Nvidia know what direction things are going in the future with regards to GPU power draw and they intimately know what problems poor supply of current can cause a GPU. The 12-pin can handle more power than the 8-pins. Going forwards, you might need 3 x 8-pin which would take up even more space in a board design too. That's space that could be dedicated for something much more useful. 8-pin was not designed for GPUs specifically, but this is. I expect the intention is to get the connector and cable adopted by PSU manufacturers. Doing so will help to stop people using very unwise configurations like 1 x 8-pin feed from the PSU split into 2 x 8-pin with a Y-cable. This config can be problematic, especially for high power-draw equipment like these GPUs. The 12-pin should also allow for better cooling for the wires within the plug. There really is no downside to a GPU-specific cable and plug. Remember when the EPS connector was introduced for CPUs?
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Aug 27, 2020 01:51
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