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thatfatkid posted:I do appreciate Prometheus just for how divisive it is and for that fact alone will be remembered more by people then just some schlock marvel action trash. Its actually added something to the world in that effect.
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Aug 27, 2020 09:29
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Grevling posted:Well in that case the final message is just incredibly pessimistic? well, based on the posts itt, it sounds like they inspire genuine communist faith in clooney's character, which based on what i picked up from cined and watching one scene, is equated with a literal miracle and the work of christ
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Aug 27, 2020 09:30
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honestly, if you think prometheus (or any other film) is good or not is a lot less important than whether you just want to shut down discussion, or are instead interested in talking about the film on it's merits and just weren't impressed on the whole. in my time in cined, there were a lot of people who just wanted to shut down discussion of what were arguably to a large extent left-wing films (or shut down left-wing analysis of films whose intent is more murky). it didn't help that the main vector for this was basically nerd media being poo poo in ways which were not yet as totally obvious to most goons as they are now. worrying about whether a film is good or not is really counterproductive. like, the most consistently good thread in my experience is the horror thread, because there's no point posting in the horror thread if you don't love a lot of "bad" movies. Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 10:08 on Aug 27, 2020 |
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Aug 27, 2020 09:37
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Bad movies are the most fun. Which in a way makes them good... 
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Aug 27, 2020 10:32
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Hodgepodge posted:well, based on the posts itt, it sounds like they inspire genuine communist faith in clooney's character, which based on what i picked up from cined and watching one scene, is equated with a literal miracle and the work of christ He does go over to their side but he's also a buffoon, as are the communist script writers. I think the way to understand it is that capitalism genuinely does lead to a lovely movies but the only people who propose anything different are too ineffectual to change it, and so this will keep going on for eternity.
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Aug 27, 2020 10:36
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i havent seen hail caesar but from the way its being described here its reminding me a lot of how shape of water kind of flirts with the idea that maybe american capitalist culture is actually bad but then it goes out of its way to make the communists just as awful in the exact same way leading the overall message to just kind of cancel itself out into lol nothing matters
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Aug 27, 2020 10:56
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Grevling posted:He does go over to their side but he's also a buffoon, as are the communist script writers. I think the way to understand it is that capitalism genuinely does lead to a lovely movies but the only people who propose anything different are too ineffectual to change it, and so this will keep going on for eternity. one flaw the left has is not understanding the power of religion due to a sort of chauvinism that is compatible with neither marx's historicism nor our own most pointed criticisms of it. the coens are jewish (although not necessarily theists) and make films in which the power of faith is often an explicit theme. like christianity may not have been great for the jewish people as a whole, but on the other hand a jewish guy in a land occupied by the most powerful empire the world had ever seen was so powerful that he objectively conquered that empire and made it worship him as a god. without killing a single person. and they seem to be saying that yeah, the people who take up the faith and do the conquering are dumb shits in the great majority of cases. but they also seem to be saying that this was also true in rome. that this hope is ultimately not rational is exactly what they are saying when they say it is faith
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Aug 27, 2020 10:57
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Echo Chamber posted:The Legend of Korra just dropped on Netflix and everyone seems to agree within a few years Avatar's gonna be where Harry Potter is right now. I cant wait to despise it
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Aug 27, 2020 10:57
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I mean, they set up a ruling class with cool powers in the first. then in the second there is an uprising by the rest of society using techniques that let them neutralize the cool powers. these are antagonists, but are depicted as basically forcing the protagonist to recognize legitimate grievances through direct action. gotta check but iirc the result is basically fixing the hosed up implications of the whole special magic powers fantasy.
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Aug 27, 2020 11:06
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Echo Chamber posted:The Legend of Korra just dropped on Netflix and everyone seems to agree within a few years Avatar's gonna be where Harry Potter is right now. Are Zoomers gonna be identifying as benders like Hogwarts houses? I saw Avatar and I enjoyed it as a kids show, but I missed out on Korra. The only thing I know about the show is that she ends up in a same sex relationship at the ends and there is a TON of creepy porn of the protagonist on the internet.
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Aug 27, 2020 11:20
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i should add regarding the ancient christians that the coens are no doubt aware that there were a few generations of them who spent a lot of time being fed to lions. many of them sought this fate willingly, in order to demonstrate to rome that their life meant nothing to them compared to building a better world. that's a big ask of anyone. on the other hand, communism does not forbid fighting back, and that most communists so greatly dislike the idea is probably the best evidence for a connection between the appeal of the two ethical systems. but understanding that dying is absolutely not the same as losing may be an increasingly important aspect of our collective psychological health in the near future.
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Aug 27, 2020 11:28
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I just woke up with a hangover so idk if I can make a coherent argument here but I think in Hail, Caesar it doesn't matter if the movies are bad- yeah they're kinda stupid but they are (at least as presented) important to people. I think the interesting thing about the movie is that you could just straight up read it as a conservative , and I think it is definitely sympathetic to Mannix, but there's just enough ambiguity creeping around the edges. The big thing there is that Mannix is covering up for Laurents' sexual abuse, which complicates the straightforward conservative read.
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Aug 27, 2020 12:32
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Echo Chamber posted:The Legend of Korra just dropped on Netflix and everyone seems to agree within a few years Avatar's gonna be where Harry Potter is right now. Never seen it, who's the villain libs are going to claim is just like President Carlson?
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Aug 27, 2020 12:37
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StashAugustine posted:I just woke up with a hangover so idk if I can make a coherent argument here but I think in Hail, Caesar it doesn't matter if the movies are bad- yeah they're kinda stupid but they are (at least as presented) important to people. I think the interesting thing about the movie is that you could just straight up read it as a conservative , and I think it is definitely sympathetic to Mannix, but there's just enough ambiguity creeping around the edges. The big thing there is that Mannix is covering up for Laurents' sexual abuse, which complicates the straightforward conservative read. i woke up and stumbled into reading this thread first thing thinking people were insane talking about the really forgettable 1994 anthony michael hall vehicle until I remembered there was an important hail caesar movie so you're at least not the worst you could be if that's any comfort
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Aug 27, 2020 13:04
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don't have time for an effortpost but my read of hail, caesar was very much a technocratic literal "the show must go on" one. mannix is the only one who sees the big picture, and all the people fighting for ideals or their own interests are just hindering the process of fulfilling life's great purpose: making the movie, whatever it is. but it seems to mean that earnestly as a sort of positive Ecclesiastes instead of the cynically absurd response i would have to it the communism lampooning was low effort, but not too annoying because they're less lampooning communism than the vague hagiography hollywood does about blacklisted writers without acknowledging the crap they were writing or distorting them from being communists into liberals. didnt that paint by numbers trumbo (attn: turmp thread posters this is someones actual name) film come out a bit before this? centrist but also so distinctly through the coens' parable lens it approached allegory i was disappointed in it but not for that reason, or at least not alone. a lot of the humor just didnt land and felt a bit like a nightly sketch show instead of as tight as their other films, almost smugly condescending against the characters instead of endearing. it may be the first time ive had an underwhelmed response to coen bros film on first viewing so was surprised i only saw it on release so need to rewatch, though. thanks for sharing your reading Grevling since it sounds interesting to watch for
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Aug 27, 2020 13:15
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Grevling posted:Well in that case the final message is just incredibly pessimistic? Yeah it's a coen brothers movie Probably the quickest way to explain what dialectical materialism though, and No Dames was v funny
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Aug 27, 2020 14:27
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Hodgepodge posted:one flaw the left has is not understanding the power of religion due to a sort of chauvinism that is compatible with neither marx's historicism nor our own most pointed criticisms of it. They explore faith in their movies but it's not always in a positive way in my limited experience, I'm in the middle of watching all of their films. I think that in this movie, especially with the speech scene, they're looking at the power of narratives in some way. The audience is enraptured as Clooney's character makes his big speech about Christ and the new world that's coming, then the spell is broken when he doesn't even remember the full line; it's just sentimental pap written to sell tickets. The narratives are interchangable. During confession, the priest tells Mannix that God wants us to do what's right, that is for Mannix do what he feels is right. What he feels is right is also what God wants. It makes me think of when in No Country for Old Men Carla Jean refuses to call heads or tails "the dice don't do anything. It's just you." Breakfast All Day posted:i only saw it on release so need to rewatch, though. thanks for sharing your reading Grevling since it sounds interesting to watch for Glad there was something interesting to it, just wish I could have been more coherent. I think you and StashAugustine probably have better points.
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Aug 27, 2020 16:04
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Some Guy TT posted:i havent seen hail caesar but from the way its being described here its reminding me a lot of how shape of water kind of flirts with the idea that maybe american capitalist culture is actually bad but then it goes out of its way to make the communists just as awful in the exact same way leading the overall message to just kind of cancel itself out into lol nothing matters its the other way around in that the movie treats everyone with a lot of love and respect. i too was left with a sense "well this was enjoyable to watch but i have no loving idea what the movie is telling me"
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Aug 27, 2020 16:04
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maybe this is just being dumb but i sort of have a very face-value reading of clooney's speech, that he's trying to hype himself into doing his job but can't quite bring himself to do it, literally because he doesn't have faith. i do agree with the point that they keep exploring the world from various different religious perspectives- i think this is kind of the point of the (incredible) scene where the rabbi gets in a huge argument with all the other clergy, it's them sorta lampshading that they might not agree with what they're saying. "You don't understand for a very simple reason- these men are all screwballs." babypolis posted:its the other way around in that the movie treats everyone with a lot of love and respect. i too was left with a sense "well this was enjoyable to watch but i have no loving idea what the movie is telling me" yeah its firmly in the coens mold of treating everyone like their little sibling- constantly mock them for being a doofus but also there's genuine affection there. even with the "bad guys" in the narrative the communists are significantly more sympathetic than Lebowski's nihilists StashAugustine has issued a correction as of 16:24 on Aug 27, 2020 |
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Aug 27, 2020 16:16
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Yeah I was wondering how to take the word he forgets is "...faith", it could be something like that. Meanwhile Mannix is firm in his faith and he's all the better for it. Even the communists, they seem to be having a pretty good time at least. or he lost faith in the whole process because of the communists. Reagan once said that Marxism-Leninism is the world's second oldest religion, and began when the serpent tempted Eve saying "ye can be as gods". From a conservative point of view it's the malcontents that create problems, not the other way around. Grevling has issued a correction as of 16:29 on Aug 27, 2020 |
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Aug 27, 2020 16:24
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I tried to watch Hail Caesar and found it boring and stopped.
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Aug 27, 2020 17:48
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It's a very funny movie, like most Coen brothers comedies.
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Aug 27, 2020 22:12
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I hope the Macbeth one of them is doing will be good.
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Aug 27, 2020 22:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlA9hmrC8DU
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Aug 27, 2020 22:29
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is the ballad of buster scruggs good
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Aug 28, 2020 00:05
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double negative posted:is the ballad of buster scruggs good Worth a watch
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Aug 28, 2020 00:11
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double negative posted:is the ballad of buster scruggs good its an anthology of short vignettes so quality/how it will strike you is going to be variable, but in general I concur that it is skooma512 posted:Worth a watch
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Aug 28, 2020 00:14
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double negative posted:is the ballad of buster scruggs good it owns
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Aug 28, 2020 00:14
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Buster Scruggs is great. Each vignette is memorable in some way.
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Aug 28, 2020 00:16
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the girl who got rattled would justify the entirety of buster scruggs but the thing works as a whole as well
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Aug 28, 2020 00:16
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Buster himself is played by one of the guys from O Brother. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_XLQDeYqpE
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Aug 28, 2020 00:24
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I wasn't as hot on this movie as most of their other stuff but the ending makes the entire thing worth it
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Aug 28, 2020 00:52
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Yeah Burn After Reading turns out to be the most prophetic of all their movies. I understand why people don't like it too much, but everything is so good. I also adore their remake of True Grit. Just fantastically adapted, acted, and directed.
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Aug 28, 2020 01:01
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StashAugustine posted:I wasn't as hot on this movie as most of their other stuff but the ending makes the entire thing worth it story of my life. CIA Supervisor: Jesus loving Christ. What did we learn, Palmer? Palmer: I don't know sir. CIA Supervisor: I don't loving know either. I guess we learned not to do it again. I'm hosed if I know what we did.
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Aug 28, 2020 01:01
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I feel like it needs to be paired with a movie that focuses on the CIA's methodical cruelty, though I don't know what would be a good option.
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Aug 28, 2020 01:04
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mysterious frankie posted:Buster Scruggs is great. Each vignette is memorable in some way. i can't forget the ending to meal ticket
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Aug 28, 2020 01:05
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MizPiz posted:I feel like it needs to be paired with a movie that focuses on the CIA's methodical cruelty, though I don't know what would be a good option. there could be a movie made that juxtaposes the CIA's evil deeds with the fact that they are completely incompetent gently caress ups. Chris Morris actually did a film along those lines about the FBI but I haven't seen it yet. didn't review terribly well though.
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Aug 28, 2020 01:10
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“I assume you meant West Texas Tit, on account of that particular bird's mellifluous warble. “
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Aug 28, 2020 01:12
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double negative posted:is the ballad of buster scruggs good i watched it late at night during bad weather while stoned and i found 4/6 of the vignettes absolutely enthralling. the tonal shifts are weird for a second but i was immersed really quickly into each one. this is unpopular but the tom waits one is my favorite. excellent worldbuilding through minimalism, just a great feeling all around. i think it was my favorite movie i saw all last year (i know it's older)
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Aug 28, 2020 01:42
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StashAugustine posted:I wasn't as hot on this movie as most of their other stuff but the ending makes the entire thing worth it it ages well imo. it's the best movie tangentially about the bush administration. i think about clooney's sex wedge a lot
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Aug 28, 2020 01:44
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