|
I rather read about Knull.
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 01:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 12:58 |
|
|
Epic paid enough to make it canon? Northrup Grumman looking like cheapskates right now
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 01:36
|
|
|
I mean i assume if you care enough to buy the marvel comics crossover event with Fortnite, you would also care about fortnite enough to play the game
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 01:52
|
|
|
site posted:Epic paid enough to make it canon? Northrup Grumman looking like cheapskates right now Other way around, I'd imagine.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 01:52
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:Oh poo poo apparently it is not only canon, you need to play it to understand the upcoming event The dead speak!
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 02:20
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:Oh poo poo apparently it is not only canon, you need to play it to understand the upcoming event Lmao no way
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 02:48
|
|
|
I'm not seeing how you need to play it to understand any upcoming event...? They made a free one-shot comic as an intro to the Fortnite event.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 05:16
|
|
|
Endless Mike posted:I'm not seeing how you need to play it to understand any upcoming event...? They made a free one-shot comic as an intro to the Fortnite event.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 05:26
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:Everything is an Event now. That press release about Fortnite was an event that leads into the video game event which has a follow up free digital comic event, which takes place between event panels in the event Thor #4. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 05:36
|
|
|
TwoPair posted:The dead speak! As dumb as the whole Fortnite thing being canon is...at least is not as bad as Episode 9. Also...I kind of like those Fortnite skins; do I have to pay to use them?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 06:20
|
|
|
radlum posted:As dumb as the whole Fortnite thing being canon is...at least is not as bad as Episode 9. Yeah, you got to buy the battle pass. There's also classic brown and yellow Wolverine and other alternate skins like Jennifer Walters instead of She-Hulk. I'm not a huge Fortnite person myself, but looking at what you can get this season, it seems like they've really gone all out, you can get an un-suited Tony Stark and there's an emote where he does the Avengers: Infinity War suit-up thing. Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Aug 28, 2020 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 07:24
|
|
|
GPTribefan posted:I remember during Gruenwald’s captain America run, where Cap killed an ULTIMATUM terrorist to save a crowd of people. It happened right before John Walker took over, and was one of the reasons he decided to give it up without a fight. He agonized for a bunch of issues over it, had to make public statements about how he’s not a killer, and had to deal with crazies on both sides of the issues waiter supporting or condemning him. It happened right around the time of Spider-Man vs Wolverine and when Iron Man accidentally killed the Titanium Man and agonized over it. It was a big point by Marvel writers I guess to show how “this guy ain’t the Punisher but he ain’t afraid to kill if he has to!” The Cap stuff made sense to me because Gruenwald didn’t write Cap as being a soldier (someone who was focused on a mission and could justify how he achieved it) more like an athlete. IE someone who always reflected on what he had done and how he could have done it better.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 13:15
|
|
|
The Question IRL posted:The Cap stuff made sense to me because Gruenwald didn’t write Cap as being a soldier (someone who was focused on a mission and could justify how he achieved it) more like an athlete. IE someone who always reflected on what he had done and how he could have done it better. It also makes sense when you remember he's not a career military guy, he signed up to fight fascism because it needed to be done.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 14:36
|
|
|
Gruenwald's Cap always drifted a little too close to being impossibly naive for my liking Dude was occasionally just a couple of steps removed from Adam West Batman but played extremely straight
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 14:45
|
|
|
Cap killed enemies during a war. Once the war was over, killing people went back to being something you only do as an absolute last resort. Half the Fantastic Four would have been killing people during the war as well but they don't do that anymore.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 14:54
|
|
|
radlum posted:As dumb as the whole Fortnite thing being canon is...at least is not as bad as Episode 9. For what is happening in game it is really not a lot, nothing I would think anyone needs to keep up with. When anyone comes to this island apparently they lose their memories and are encouraged to play battle royale. Doom has set up shop in one of the towns which has doombots walking around and is called Doom's Domain. There is a sentinel graveyard in the middle of the island. Wolverine seems separated from the rest of the heroes. SHIELD is dropping off supplies/weapons with Stark drones. The supplies weirdly include Silver Surfer's board. That's it no complicated story happens within the fortnite game itself ever. Apparently Ant-Manor is coming later in the season, spoiled by Marvel themselves but that's it so far. Fritzler fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Aug 28, 2020 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 14:55
|
|
Lobok posted:Cap killed enemies during a war. Once the war was over, killing people went back to being something you only do as an absolute last resort. Half the Fantastic Four would have been killing people during the war as well but they don't do that anymore. It's more than that, the way Cap sees himself changed drastically over time. Some guy who happens to be good at tossing a shield killing people during a war is one thing, but the living, breathing symbol of America killing people extra-judicially is another entirely.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 16:04
|
|
|
Yvonmukluk posted:It also makes sense when you remember he's not a career military guy, he signed up to fight fascism because it needed to be done. This is tbe best take on Steve Rogers and syncs up with the MCU version perfectly. "I don't like bullies."
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 16:32
|
|
|
The meta story of Cap is also that he was anti-fascist before America, considering Marvel published before the country joined the war.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 16:38
|
|
|
He's not a soldier anymore he's a superhero and superheroes are not supposed to kill
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 16:38
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:the living, breathing symbol of America killing people extra-judicially This checks out tho
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 16:59
|
|
|
Harold Fjord posted:He's not a soldier anymore he's a superhero and superheroes are not supposed to kill Wait what? gently caress. This must be why my work only shows up on the news as the work of the "east side ripper" instead of my preferred name, Admiral Justice. My bad.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2020 18:05
|
|
|
Captain America straight up killed at least one terrorist at the very beginning of Brubaker's run and when Sharon called him out on it he was all, "Oh, you mean that terrorist that was minutes away from killing thousands of people? Yeah, I had to kill him." (paraphrased, of course) It seems like his thing in that run was that he'd avoid killing if possible, and he usually can avoid it because he's that good, but he will kill if he has to and he won't beat himself up over it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 00:44
|
|
|
Happy Hippo posted:Captain America straight up killed at least one terrorist at the very beginning of Brubaker's run and when Sharon called him out on it he was all, "Oh, you mean that terrorist that was minutes away from killing thousands of people? Yeah, I had to kill him." (paraphrased, of course) It seems like his thing in that run was that he'd avoid killing if possible, and he usually can avoid it because he's that good, but he will kill if he has to and he won't beat himself up over it. He killed a terrorist on like national television or something in that run that started shortly after 9/11. It's why he publicly revealed his identity, which I thought was cool. Like, masked vigilantes capturing bad guys is one thing, but when they're killing terrorists they need be able to be held publicly accountable.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 00:52
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:He killed a terrorist on like national television or something in that run that started shortly after 9/11. It's why he publicly revealed his identity, which I thought was cool. Like, masked vigilantes capturing bad guys is one thing, but when they're killing terrorists they need be able to be held publicly accountable. How does that make him more accountable? Captain America was created by the US government, presumably they know his real name. If he does a crime, the government can get him for it. And as far as I know, Steve Rogers mainly does super hero stuff under his Captain America identity, so if the public turned on "Captain America" that would be the same as it turning on "Steve Rogers". Making his identity publicly known just makes him slightly more vulnerable to public opinion on a personal level. It makes Steve Rogers cancelable.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 01:07
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:How does that make him more accountable? Captain America was created by the US government, presumably they know his real name. If he does a crime, the government can get him for it. And as far as I know, Steve Rogers mainly does super hero stuff under his Captain America identity, so if the public turned on "Captain America" that would be the same as it turning on "Steve Rogers". Making his identity publicly known just makes him slightly more vulnerable to public opinion on a personal level. It makes Steve Rogers cancelable. Same reason cops shouldn't be covering up their name on their badges.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 01:10
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:Same reason cops shouldn't be covering up their name on their badges. But there are a lot of cops. If you know their badge number, you can determine which specific cop did a specific crime. There is one Captain America. If Captain America does a bad shoot, you don't need to identify which Captain America it was and which other Captains America were at the scene. Because you know it was Captain America.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 01:20
|
|
|
Happy Hippo posted:Captain America straight up killed at least one terrorist at the very beginning of Brubaker's run and when Sharon called him out on it he was all, "Oh, you mean that terrorist that was minutes away from killing thousands of people? Yeah, I had to kill him." (paraphrased, of course) It seems like his thing in that run was that he'd avoid killing if possible, and he usually can avoid it because he's that good, but he will kill if he has to and he won't beat himself up over it. Brubaker Cap is definitely my favorite take, partly because that is when I started reading Captain America, and partly because it makes sense.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 01:20
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:But there are a lot of cops. If you know their badge number, you can determine which specific cop did a specific crime. There is one Captain America. If Captain America does a bad shoot, you don't need to identify which Captain America it was and which other Captains America were at the scene. Because you know it was Captain America. Except several other people both before and since have been Captain America.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 01:27
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:Except several other people both before and since have been Captain America. At the same time, in the same costume? If someone who wasn't Steve Rogers committed a crime while dressed as Captain America, then Captain America has to clear his name. If everybody knows Steve Rogers is Captain America, then Steve Rogers has to clear his name. But that's still the same thing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 01:30
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:At the same time, in the same costume? If someone who wasn't Steve Rogers committed a crime while dressed as Captain America, then Captain America has to clear his name. If everybody knows Steve Rogers is Captain America, then Steve Rogers has to clear his name. But that's still the same thing. That would make it easier to clear his name. I can't have been the Captain America that robbed that bank, fifteen people saw Steve Rogers at a grocery store.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 01:36
|
|
|
Lord_Hambrose posted:Brubaker Cap is definitely my favorite take, partly because that is when I started reading Captain America, and partly because it makes sense. I feel like Brubaker's Cap is more 'he was at least once a soldier' and goes on from there where I don't think Gruenwald saw it that way.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 01:54
|
|
|
Brubaker's Cap is very strongly tied to his time as a soldier and military culture in general.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 02:04
|
|
|
There's a big disconnect on the subject of killing between '80s/'90s Marvel and the Quesada era, to the point where it could be worth a short essay. In Shooter's Marvel, heroes didn't kill their opponents, full stop. In DeFalco's, killing was often discussed, sometimes justified, and typically only done by antiheroes; Tony Stark in particular developed a bit of a body count in the '90s, as I recall. In Quesada's Marvel and beyond, it's more handled on a per-character basis. Many of the protagonists won't go out of their way to kill an opponent, but it seems to be a given that sometimes you're going to chop up a few Hand ninjas or HYDRA goons and nobody's going to make a big deal about it. I remember in Fraction and Aja's Iron Fist, Luke, Misty, and Colleen take out a bunch of HYDRA guys, visibly using lethal force, and are comfortable enough with doing so that they're calmly joking during the fight ("Y'all should get gay married"). Then there's the Ultimate line, where it's more or less a given that SHIELD-affiliated heroes in particular are going to kill people, because many are soldiers and that's part of the job. Some of it's probably reflective of the way that 2000s-era Marvel was moving in a more pulp-fiction direction and away from superheroes. That got yanked back on pretty hard once the MCU really spun up, but until then, a lot of the older characters were gradually jettisoning old genre tropes like secret identities and spandex costumes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 02:42
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:But there are a lot of cops. If you know their badge number, you can determine which specific cop did a specific crime. There is one Captain America. If Captain America does a bad shoot, you don't need to identify which Captain America it was and which other Captains America were at the scene. Because you know it was Captain America. Let's say Captain America is forced, in a combat situation, to kill Crossbones or else he kills a bunch of innocent people. In a court of law, 99% of jurors would consider that a justifiable killing and so acquit Cap of murder charges. But you can't call "Captain America" to court; "Captain America" could be anyone, he could live anywhere, Clint Barton could conceivably put on the Captain America costume and appear as him. In order to get to the point where a civil system exonerates Cap for doing what he did, the people first need to know him as Steve Rogers, an unmasked U.S. citizen with a history and background.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 02:44
|
|
|
BrianWilly posted:I think the one of the key points here is that individual citizens with names and histories and social security numbers and so forth can be held accountable under a civil society, while a masked superhero -- however public they might be -- can't undergo that same process. If the issue is taking Captain America to court, then the fact that the government knows who he is would be enough. The NYPD could call up the military and be like, hey we need to know who that guy is. Or they could literally pull up to the Avengers Mansion with a warrant for the man known as Captain America, and arrest Captain America or Steve Rogers could be like, "yeah that's me" If the issue is the jury automatically siding with "Captain America", then them knowing that Captain America is Steve Rogers isn't going to be super helpful by itself. Especially considering that that doesn't demystify Captain America, if anything it super mystifies him. Who is that under the Captain America mask? Oh it's a WW2 war hero who was given super powers by a secret military experiment and fought nazis and then gave up his life to save people but survived because it turns out he could survive being frozen in a glacier. But none of that matters, really, if the issues is whether or not Captain America would stand trial for doing something bad. If Captain America does something bad and is repentant, he'll turn himself in. If he's unrepentant, then either he'll just run away using his superhero resources, or the other heroes will stop him and take him in themselves. It would depend on the nature of his bad deed and how many heroes thought he should be brought in. I suppose. Whether or not his identity is known doesn't enter into it. I think this is the real value of Captain America revealing his identity Skwirl posted:That would make it easier to clear his name. I can't have been the Captain America that robbed that bank, fifteen people saw Steve Rogers at a grocery store. It has nothing to do with Steve Rogers, it's about Captain America. It establishes that if Steve Rogers is in the suit, then that's the genuine bonafide original Captain America accept no substitutes. So whatever someone else does in the costume doesn't really matter. That's as long as Steve Rogers is a good guy. But if Steve Rogers becomes a bad guy, then they can say, that Steve Rogers is bad, but Captain America must live on, so everybody say hello to New Captain America!
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 02:59
|
|
|
forget the cap identity, he isn't even always the only steve rogers running around.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 04:26
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:If the issue is taking Captain America to court, then the fact that the government knows who he is would be enough. The NYPD could call up the military and be like, hey we need to know who that guy is. Or they could literally pull up to the Avengers Mansion with a warrant for the man known as Captain America, and arrest Captain America or Steve Rogers could be like, "yeah that's me"  . But what Cap does by unmasking himself is to preemptively take accountability, say that no one has to go through bothersome channels or endless red tape just to know who he is, this guy who has killed enemy combatants in the past and might kill enemy combatants in the future under the persona of Captain America. In an era where everything tended to be covert and secretive and conspiratorial and Captain America might be granted extra special privileges for killing people just because he's some special government operative, Steve opted instead for transparency and clarity and a willingness to be held to the common people's standards.Like we have to understand that masked vigilantes being able to operate under any sort of real world functional society would be virtually unthinkable, and would only be allowed to go on if everyone agreed that there were limits to their purview, that there are absolutely certain things that they can't be allowed to do, number one of which would probably be being able to kill people without accountability. (And no, the government saying "this is fine" isn't true accountability  ) Cap unmasking is sort of a balancing of the scales: if he does have the jurisdiction to kill people, then he refuses to be unaccountable about it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 04:43
|
|
|
It’s almost like we need some kind of registration act for super heroes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 15:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 12:58 |
|
|
I mean, the general premise behind having accountability and transparency behind masked nameless superhuman WMDs is not the literal most dumb thing in the world which is why the Civil War story could even passably present the conceit of "choose your side!" It's when you have zero consistency between issues -- or sometimes in-between panels -- of what exactly registration entails, what happens if you do it, what happens if you don't do it...that it becomes like, uh no maybe don't make a law that sends armed officers to someone's home because they're...sitting at home...doing nothing...'cuz yikes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2020 00:14
|
|