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This reminds me of Pascal's Wager. For those unfamiliar: Pascal's Wager is a thought experiment and argument in support of religious belief. It posits two axes: God's existence and One's own belief in God, which can either be true or false. If you believe and God doesn't exist, you stand to lose some time in your life that you could have spent sinning. Whatever value you place on that, it's a finite negative. If you believe and God does exist, you are rewarded with eternity in Heaven, which is a positive gain so great as to be essentially infinite. On the other hand, if do not believe and God does not exist, you gain that finite sinning time back. If you do not believe and God does exist, you are condemned to Hell for eternity, which is an infinitely large loss. Essentially, the expected value of belief is higher than the expected value of non-belief so it is only rational to belief. Asking if I want to meet up during quarentimes is essentially the same thing, except without all the huge problems with Pascals Wager like "this equally argues that I should pray to Cthulhu". If I sit at home and it would have been safe, I lose some finite amount of entertainment. If I sit at home and it would not have been safe, then I gain greatly, possibly infinitely if I would have died. The reverse holds; if I take the risk and nothing happens, I gain a small amount, but it how could it compare to the negative loss if the worst happened? (So, this metaphor breaks down slightly because we then have to talk about percentage chances. If I catch Covid, there's an X% chance I will die and a Y% chance I will be harmed greater than the entertainment value gained, but if I don't believe in God and He's real, there is a 100% chance I am going to Hell.) Like, if you and your friends aren't worried, fill your boots. I'm gonna wait it out.
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Aug 29, 2020 15:52
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Jedit posted:My group are starting to talk about resuming face-to-face meetings in September. I am ... unsure. I have been playing in a micro bubble for three months. Here are the rules for how we play. If you play with our group, you must leave our group to play with another group or at least quarantine for two weeks before playing with our group again. All the players in the group either live alone or with one other person None of the players in the group go to parties or bars We only play at my place, and would consider another home if available, we'd never play in a restaurant. Too much can happen there We take temperatures at the start of the session Masks on at all times during the play session, no exceptions Hand sanitizer available if you touch your face or cough. Believe it or not, it's safer to cough into your hands then wash them rather than coughing into your elbow Hands must be washed after using the restroom Never pass around food or drinks. All food or drinks must be consumed at least six feet away from the table Either bring your own food or someone (by themselves) goes out for fast food Some of these guidelines were provided provided by my board game playing internal medicine doctor. We follow all of his guidelines plus add more. It's always up to you. Here in LA county, we are at orange, but where I and the others live, we are at yellow. LA county is ~10 million people, so numbers are all over the place.
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Aug 29, 2020 15:54
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Board gaming is only a sin upon my wallet.
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Aug 29, 2020 15:55
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Magnetic North posted:This reminds me of Pascal's Wager. For those unfamiliar: Pascal's Wager is a thought experiment and argument in support of religious belief. It posits two axes: God's existence and One's own belief in God, which can either be true or false. If you believe and God doesn't exist, you stand to lose some time in your life that you could have spent sinning. Whatever value you place on that, it's a finite negative. If you believe and God does exist, you are rewarded with eternity in Heaven, which is a positive gain so great as to be essentially infinite. On the other hand, if do not believe and God does not exist, you gain that finite sinning time back. If you do not believe and God does exist, you are condemned to Hell for eternity, which is an infinitely large loss. Essentially, the expected value of belief is higher than the expec ted value of non-belief so it is only rational to belief. I guess you should never hop in your car and drive to the movies ever again either? (After all, you can crash and die.) Serotoning fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Aug 29, 2020 |
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Aug 29, 2020 15:55
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Magnetic North posted:This reminds me of Pascal's Wager. For those unfamiliar: Pascal's Wager is a thought experiment and argument in support of religious belief. It posits two axes: God's existence and One's own belief in God, which can either be true or false. If you believe and God doesn't exist, you stand to lose some time in your life that you could have spent sinning. Whatever value you place on that, it's a finite negative. If you believe and God does exist, you are rewarded with eternity in Heaven, which is a positive gain so great as to be essentially infinite. On the other hand, if do not believe and God does not exist, you gain that finite sinning time back. If you do not believe and God does exist, you are condemned to Hell for eternity, which is an infinitely large loss. Essentially, the expected value of belief is higher than the expected value of non-belief so it is only rational to belief. You can't live your life that way. It's horribly negative and frightening. I guess if you insist that everything can be awful, then sure you shouldn't do anything at all.
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Aug 29, 2020 15:57
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why are you two making fun of the nerd for a negative outlook during a pandemic, the silly thing was the long unnecessary explanation of pascal's wager...
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Aug 29, 2020 16:06
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Pvt. Parts posted:I guess you should never hop in your car and drive to the movies ever again either? (After all, you can crash and die.) Seriously, who has done much discretionary driving since like 2008? I'm under the impression that most people drive exactly the amount they have to, even pre-quarentimes.
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Aug 29, 2020 16:16
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Pvt. Parts posted:I guess you should never hop in your car and drive to the movies ever again either? (After all, you can crash and die.) After all, you could crash and die, but not know for two weeks that you crashed and died, and every person you interacted with for those two weeks would also have a high chance of crashing and dying if you did. Get your analogy right, friend.
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Aug 29, 2020 16:45
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If you take an analogy, and then replace a part of the analogy with an analogy, and then slowly over time all parts of the original analogy have been replaced with more analogies, is it still the same analogy?
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Aug 29, 2020 16:53
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Snooze Cruise posted:why are you two making fun of the nerd for a negative outlook during a pandemic, the silly thing was the long unnecessary explanation of pascal's wager... Welcome to the board gaming thread, where we routinely spend hundreds of words re-summarizing board game rules to each other, that are easily available on google.
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Aug 29, 2020 16:55
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what does perceival do again?
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Aug 29, 2020 16:59
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Magnetic North posted:Pascal’s wager It’s a neat idea but it makes the fundamentally wrong assumption that the belief in god / fear of damnation is the only reason people don’t sin
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Aug 29, 2020 17:00
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Magnetic North posted:Seriously, who has done much discretionary driving since like 2008? I'm under the impression that most people drive exactly the amount they have to, even pre-quarentimes. I know I haven't, but it's beside the point. The takeaway is that if you use "infinity" as the divisor on the loss side for any calculation, nothing will seem worthwhile. It is the Cthulhu case you mentioned. thespaceinvader posted:After all, you could crash and die, but not know for two weeks that you crashed and died, and every person you interacted with for those two weeks would also have a high chance of crashing and dying if you did. At the risk of derailing the thread, you can crash your car and kill someone else or everyone else in the other vehicle. Considering Covid-19 has a reproduction number (average number of other people an infected person infects) of between 2 and 3, it's roughly analogous to hitting a car full of a family of 4. So I think the analogy works better than you give it credit for.
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Aug 29, 2020 17:03
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Bottom Liner posted:Unless you can trace every member of that group exposing yourself to more vectors is almost a linear increase of exposure risk, especially sharing close indoor quarters. It’s not just 2-4 friends, it’s everyone they’ve come in contact with for the past 5-10 days, and you’re exposing them to the people you work with too. It's this math that has me pissed off with places trying to reopen. I got shamed on Facebook by the local Film Society for saying I didn't feel comfortable going to an auditorium for a film yet, even with their very good safety protocols
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Aug 29, 2020 17:06
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djfooboo posted:I work in public health, I know how it works. I just value my autonomy enough to allow for some recreation with like-minded people. We are social creatures and need people in our lives besides immediate family. I work in public health. Don’t mix your bubbles while your outbreak is ongoing, especially if you live in a high risk area or those bubbles are high risk. If you’re going to do it, do it only with people you absolutely trust to be safe themselves and make it the only mixing any of you are doing. And probably not in Florida. Sorry our governments are terrible at quashing this. Stickman fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Aug 29, 2020 |
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Aug 29, 2020 17:19
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If you wouldnt rate a game 10 out of 10 on BGG, its probably not worth risking killing your friends and famliy to play it.
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Aug 29, 2020 17:20
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Infinitum posted:If you take an analogy, and then replace a part of the analogy with an analogy, and then slowly over time all parts of the original analogy have been replaced with more analogies, is it still the same analogy? If you play the boardgames on Tabletop Simulator instead of going and playing them in person because there is a loving plague, are they still the same boardgames?
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Aug 29, 2020 17:21
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thespaceinvader posted:If you play the boardgames on Tabletop Simulator instead of going and playing them in person because there is a loving plague, are they still the same boardgames? It's not the games, it's meeting people. My group are friends that I haven't seen in six months.
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Aug 29, 2020 17:24
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thespaceinvader posted:If you play the boardgames on Tabletop Simulator instead of going and playing them in person because there is a loving plague, are they still the same boardgames? No! Because in real life I can't magically make pieces gigantic and throw them at another players board to piss them off if they're being an absolute nugget before rewinding time 
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Aug 29, 2020 17:25
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I've had outdoors picnics with friends eating at a safe distance. But screw playing boardgames in a group in person right now. Fortunately I can still regularly play with my SO 2p at home.
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Aug 29, 2020 17:40
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Some people out there are coming up with non-online safe gaming ideas. I've heard people talk about doing Warhammer where only one person is at the table and they play outside. It's creative but also not for everyone for various and sundry reasons. The tough thing is that most normal board games are harder to make work like that. For instance, you could have a Karuba/On Tour picnic where everyone sits apart on their picnic blanket and plays games in a public park. fake edit: I got scooped on my hot picnic take, no!
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Aug 29, 2020 17:43
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Yeah picnic games could work. I'm trying to figure out some way of getting myself outside in the winter time tho because I can already tell the SAD this year is going to be brutal
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Aug 29, 2020 17:56
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Jedit posted:It's not the games, it's meeting people. My group are friends that I haven't seen in six months. Then meet the people separately, without playing board games with them. I miss people too. I've not seen anyone who doesn't live in this house or shop at the same place I do for 6 months either. I miss gaming, and LARPing, and RPGs, and hell I'm honestly starting to miss the companionship in the office. I miss a huge range of communities I was just starting to get to know, too. I want to see my local game cafe's new premises, it looks very shiny. But you know what? I'm. Not. Just. Thinking. About. Me. I'm thinking about every person like my wife, who are going to be trapped inside for the foreseeable future, until there's a vaccine or the thing finally runs its course - IF it runs its course - because if they catch it, they die. And we would, at some point, like to interact with people in person for recreation again, but we can't, and nor can millions of other immune compromised people. I'm thinking about every kid of every person I interact with, and the grandparents of those kids who take care of them when their parents have to work. Board gaming, in particular, is a very bad activity, because you can't do it outside (wind is a problem...), you usually sit facing one another, and you usually sit within a metre of one another. You usually spend several hours within aerosolised droplet distance, touching all the same objects, probably eating and drinking at the same time, from vessels that are all within aerosolised droplet distance, probably without washing your hands very often. About half the times I've had colds or flu since I've started playing board games and RPGs, I can link directly to playing board games and RPGs, they are an amazing transmission vector, moreso than things like cinemas, or theatres, and definitely moreso than having a nice picnic or barbecue outside, in the park, in the sun. So if you wanna meet people, go chill together in the park, 2 metres apart, wearing masks. Don't sit around a small table, breathing on each other and touching things each other have touched. E: and yeah, take advantage of TTS automation to play all those nightmarshly complex games with annoying faffy logistics which work better online than in person. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Aug 29, 2020 |
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Aug 29, 2020 17:58
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Well I think it is fair to consider the reach of your group. I have a neighbor I'm around cause I help with their kids and good luck getting toddlers to wear masks. Other than that it's the grocery store and teaching at the forge, both of which are fully masked and were able to stay away from people. It's acceptable between us because we are both ultra conservative with public exposure and our proximity is enough were basically the same family at this point. On the flip side we've avoided our regular gaming folks because as mentioned the vectors multiply, and I'm ironically more at risk masked around them than unmasked around the single family next door since only one of them ever goes out and he's strict with his exposure. The awkward thing is the people we know who don't have the discipline and have started to drift into "I'm tired of this" territory and aren't holding to good standards when they go anywhere. "We should hang out sometime and play"  I'm not likely to get sick and die but I don't know how people can live with themselves knowing they killed someone's grandma or something.
threelemmings fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Aug 29, 2020 |
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Aug 29, 2020 17:59
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...now I miss blacksmithing classes, gently caress I have this crazy idea to make a competitive but you have to work together smithing game, so like you help me pump the bellows and I'll help you with the grinder later
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Aug 29, 2020 18:07
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I feel like how you gauge your own personal risk comes down to a lot of mitigating factors. Soon I will be back working in a school where my government have explicitly said I am not allowed to wear a mask (although there are signs of a possible U turn) despite the fact I'll be coming into contact with hundreds of people every week. A lot of my friends are in a similar situation and that dichotomy of message (stay safe and do nothing fun, but go to work in a potentially dangerous environment with no protection) and some serious flouting of the rules by senior figures in the government has led to a bit of a cavalier approach to things from some of them. I interact with a lot of vulnerable people so I'm doing my best to maximise the time I can spend with them before I'm back at work, but I'm not going to criticise or judge my friends too much for having a party even if I don't attend it myself.
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Aug 29, 2020 18:15
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Redundant posted:. Soon I will be back working in a school where my government have explicitly said I am not allowed to wear a mask JFC. General. Strike.
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Aug 29, 2020 18:19
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I think all of this is based on everyone’s personal situation. I visit my best friend almost every weekend. He lives a few blocks away. We usually just sit and chat for a few hours. We are both work from home. We both only ever go to the grocery store and that’s it. Like I said before I live in a county with less then 200 total cases over the last 6 months and barely any cases in the last couple of months.
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Aug 29, 2020 18:21
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I’ve spent the week making the custom insert for Spirit Island plus the expansions. It’s surprisingly easy and cheap to do (about 10 euros and I used up with half the materials I bought). My two problems now are: a) that I can’t use it until my group meets again and b) now I want to make inserts for everything.
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Aug 29, 2020 18:22
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Fat Samurai posted:I’ve spent the week making the custom insert for Spirit Island plus the expansions. It’s surprisingly easy and cheap to do (about 10 euros and I used up with half the materials I bought). Top poo poo. Good job. That plastic table cloth cover is powerful 80s vibes as well
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Aug 29, 2020 18:28
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thespaceinvader posted:Then meet the people separately, without playing board games with them. You asked what the difference was. I answered. I thought that I'd been clear from the start that I was dubious about this planned resumption of normality.
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Aug 29, 2020 18:45
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Fat Samurai posted:I’ve spent the week making the custom insert for Spirit Island plus the expansions. It’s surprisingly easy and cheap to do (about 10 euros and I used up with half the materials I bought). Nicely done, but I am curious if anyone actually use the element tokens?
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Aug 29, 2020 18:49
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I disagree with criticizing people's decisions or indecision.
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Aug 29, 2020 18:51
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Infinitum posted:That plastic table cloth cover is powerful 80s vibes as well Meet my dinner room, office and gaming table
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Aug 29, 2020 19:05
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Mayveena posted:I disagree with criticizing people's decisions or indecision. I think choices should be the only thing we criticize anyone for.
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Aug 29, 2020 19:18
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Since returning from vacation in March, and being quarantined for five weeks, I have had one person come over to play a game. I have a job that has me working from home 50% of the time and traveling 50% of the time. All the travel has been by car but that is about to change to 50% by air. Work will provide testing before and after every trip. The best part about traveling bad been seeing how differently people are taking a real threat. Some places I feel like I am the only idiot with a mask and other places I am just one of the herd. I have decided to separate myself from people who can’t take other peoples health seriously. I’m not exactly on the left of the isle but wearing a mask and social distancing aren’t exactly difficult asks.
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Aug 29, 2020 19:22
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I can play board games online. I play board games with my kids. What I miss is ball hockey. And that's not coming back for a long time.
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Aug 29, 2020 19:48
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Edit: actually I don't want to engage with this
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Aug 29, 2020 20:22
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Im strategically visiting the people better at board games than me so I can strike them down with the plague and become the true board game Top Dog. survival of the fittest
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Aug 29, 2020 20:29
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| # ? May 24, 2024 02:20 |
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Control Volume posted:Im strategically visiting the people better at board games than me so I can strike them down with the plague and become the true board game Top Dog. survival of the fittest Hey maybe don't joke about infecting people with a deadly respiratory pandemic, you utter ghoul
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Aug 29, 2020 20:31
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