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CharlestheHammer posted:Hmm? The Texans revolted specifically because of Mexico’s stance on slavery. They likely would've revolted regardless of Mexico's stance on slavery because there was never any intention of becoming loyal mexicans. Immigrating into and seizing Texas had been an anglo dream since it was spanish. It wasn't really the explicit cause and the mexican government had made no effort to actually free the "indentured servants" that the white anglos all suddenly had after slavery was abolished in 1830. It certainly wasn't Santa Anna's intention.
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Aug 30, 2020 14:36
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In late with my Nero neck beard shot:
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Aug 30, 2020 16:33
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:They likely would've revolted regardless of Mexico's stance on slavery because there was never any intention of becoming loyal mexicans. Immigrating into and seizing Texas had been an anglo dream since it was spanish. It wasn't really the explicit cause and the mexican government had made no effort to actually free the "indentured servants" that the white anglos all suddenly had after slavery was abolished in 1830. It certainly wasn't Santa Anna's intention. Admission as a slave state was a key goal of the Texas plan. There was land to be had elsewhere, but Texas had the climate, location, and distinct lack of Yankees to make it a prime candidate for the creation of new slave states. The Mexican authorities saw slavery as a touchstone issue for this reason and tried repeatedly to curtail it, but ultimately their authority just didn't reach into Texas and they were reluctant to send in the troops as they were frankly outnumbered even before factoring in the risk of provoking the USA. There were certainly other factors, perhaps even more pressing ones, so it is not quite correct to say that pro-slavery sentiment was the reason Texas rebelled. But it makes Texans very mad when you claim it was, so it is also extremely correct to say so.
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Aug 30, 2020 17:32
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But saying white Southerners wanted Texas as a slave state (extremely true) is not the same as saying Santa Anna was an abolitionist. Honestly, nobody comes out the Texas Revolution looking good - anglo Texans wanted slaves and roped their Tejano neighbors into their revolt by talking a big line about LIBERTY, and Santa Anna was a petty, self-aggrandizing wannabe Napoleon.
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Aug 30, 2020 17:48
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No one said he was, and ultimately it doesn’t matter. The US North was not abolitionist in any real way until the South forced their hand. People still pretend the North fought the war for slavery.
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Aug 30, 2020 19:26
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Remulak posted:In late with my Nero neck beard shot: One of my very favorite parts of that holiday I had in Rome was getting to see all the portrait busts in the Capitolinum; Roman art is and was, frequently derided for being heavily dependent on copying the Greeks, but they did have an extremely important innovation of physical accuracy in portraiture, rather that idealization. A possibly wanky way of saying that Roman sculptural portraiture was frequently exceptionally unforgiving to the sitter. I'd maybe question the accuracy of the portraits of the very murderous Emperors. Is it a coincidence that the very murdery ones like Commodus look pretty hot in their portrait busts? edit: like, look at this guy:  Traditionally supposed to be a portrait of Lucius Brutus, but it couldn't have been taken from the life, since it was made at least 300 years after L. Brutus died. That's not an idealization, that's someone specific. Thats someone contemporary. I really like Roman portraiture; its pragmatic and probably very honest. Pookah has a new favorite as of 20:22 on Aug 30, 2020 |
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Aug 30, 2020 20:02
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Pookah posted:I really like Roman portraiture; its pragmatic and probably very honest. Except when it isn't. There isn't one portrait of Augustus as an old or even middle aged man, he's always idealized.
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Aug 31, 2020 06:57
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Have you considered the possibility of Augustus actually being a God and eternally young? 
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Aug 31, 2020 07:04
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That's because he's the perfect human.
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Aug 31, 2020 07:04
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vampire
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Aug 31, 2020 07:07
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Straight White Shark posted:Admission as a slave state was a key goal of the Texas plan. There was land to be had elsewhere, but Texas had the climate, location, and distinct lack of Yankees to make it a prime candidate for the creation of new slave states. The Mexican authorities saw slavery as a touchstone issue for this reason and tried repeatedly to curtail it, but ultimately their authority just didn't reach into Texas and they were reluctant to send in the troops as they were frankly outnumbered even before factoring in the risk of provoking the USA. I mean, I'm a texan. I don't live there now, but it doesn't make me mad so much as... what? why? You make texans mad by dunking on Houston or Dallas or San Antonio or whichever team they like, or calling it a red state. Or blaming the inhabitants for the voter suppression. The only people who care about the honour of the loving alamo are already chuds. Edgar Allen Ho has a new favorite as of 07:52 on Aug 31, 2020 |
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Aug 31, 2020 07:46
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I mean, I'm a texan. I don't live there now, but it doesn't make me mad so much as... what? why? Nice melt-down.
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Aug 31, 2020 07:51
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I mean your revisionism and proudly declaring yourself a Texan makes me think your very mad
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Aug 31, 2020 15:10
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean your revisionism and proudly declaring yourself a Texan makes me think your very mad now, now
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Aug 31, 2020 15:45
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don't reply to Charles
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Aug 31, 2020 16:40
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Pick posted:vampire Ah, another follower of the Life of Caesar podcast.
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Aug 31, 2020 17:51
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hawowanlawow posted:don't reply to Charles As it’s cute you think people read your posts I do friend, I do
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Aug 31, 2020 19:09
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CharlestheHammer posted:As it’s cute you think people read your posts Obviously you don't, because you never take the hint when people ask you not to derail threads all over the fora. Just let it go, man. To contribute to this thread, the existence of Dutch Brazil always fascinates me. For context, the Dutch never made any real efforts to claim a part of South America outside of this. They fought for it pretty hard against the Portuguese, and then spectacularly lost control of it until they had to give it up a short time later. But that's not the interesting part. No, the interesting part is that this is an early example of how media coverage shapes national memory. The moment the Dutch lost control, public opinion turned and the first newspapers started deriding the failing colonists. When it was lost, a conscious effort was made to never speak of it again. And it worked! Most of us in the Netherlands know all former colonies by heart, but even today almost no one remembers this place. It's one of the first cases I know of where mass media had this effect, and I think that's fascinating.
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Aug 31, 2020 20:04
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I said I read them didn’t say I listen to them, though considering the topic was literally about his attempts at historical revisionism I don’t think you know what a derail is
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Aug 31, 2020 20:06
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Sobatchja Morda posted:To contribute to this thread, the existence of Dutch Brazil always fascinates me. For context, the Dutch never made any real efforts to claim a part of South America outside of this. ...Surinam?
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Sep 1, 2020 09:27
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Sobatchja Morda posted:Obviously you don't, because you never take the hint when people ask you not to derail threads all over the fora. Just let it go, man. In a similar vein most Scottish people have never heard of the Darien Scheme from the late 1690s where Scotland sunk a shitload of money into trying to establish a colony in the Darién gap in Panama in Central America. It was an abject failure and approximately 20% of Scotland’s wealth had been sunk in it leaving the country in financial straits when it failed. This meant Scotland was way more open to the idea of Union with England when it got raised and so it led to the political union in 1707. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme Helith has a new favorite as of 02:39 on Sep 3, 2020 |
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Sep 1, 2020 09:42
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Can you imagine going from Scotland to Panama? When you've never lived anywhere else in your life, had no frame of reference for what you were getting into? No wonder so many of them died.
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Sep 3, 2020 01:26
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The Darién gap has such treacherous terrain that you cant cross overland across North and South America without planning a major expedition. Even trying to cross in all-terrain vehicles is impossible without using barges or rafts. Also. Apparently the only surviving remnant of New Caledonia is a ditch they dug on the first expedition. From "The corner of Central America where Scotland lost its independence" On a somewhat related historical topic, "silleteros" were mostly native men, some enslaved and some employed, who carried goods and more infamously European colonials on their backs across mountain ranges in the Colombian Andes. It's a powerful image that even apalled many contemporary Europeans.  Earlier this month Medellín finished up it's most important event, the Festival of the Flowers. One of its biggest draws is a parade of silleteros, only now they carry flowers on their backs instead of people. 
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Sep 3, 2020 02:17
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Kevin DuBrow posted:The Darién gap has such treacherous terrain that you cant cross overland across North and South America without planning a major expedition. Even trying to cross in all-terrain vehicles is impossible without using barges or rafts. There have been plans for ages to build a road through it, which would be the road to connect the entire network of North America to the entirety of South America. There's several reasons they haven't done that. 1. The terrain is so treacherous that building a road would be prohibitively expensive. 2. It is a protected nature area and building through that is controversial anyway. 3. There's all sorts of rebel groups there that kill or kidnap anyone who gets near. 4. A project like this would be truly Pan-American, but the richest countries (USA) have no interest in helping to fund it because they believe this will only cause more immigrants to try and make it to the USA. Which might be true. On the other hand, I wonder how hard it really is to get to the other side. There's ferries that go around it, right? And if you have the money you can just take a plane, of course.
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Sep 3, 2020 06:53
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Carbon dioxide posted:There have been plans for ages to build a road through it, which would be the road to connect the entire network of North America to the entirety of South America. Minus Iquitos, Juneau, and all the smaller settlements (not a complete list) with no connection to the main road networks of either continent.
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Sep 3, 2020 06:59
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Carbon dioxide posted:There have been plans for ages to build a road through it, which would be the road to connect the entire network of North America to the entirety of South America. That's a hilariously wrongbrained version of why US capitalists don't care for the gap
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Sep 3, 2020 10:25
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https://twitter.com/iamchelz_/status/1279956175681916929
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Sep 3, 2020 17:24
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In 1902 French Indochina was overrun with rats. The colonial government hired rat hunters, but even though they were killing over 20 000 rats a day they couldn't even make a dent in the rat population. The solution was to set å bounty on one cent per dead rat. They even had the ingenious idea of telling people to just show up with the tail so to not flood the governmental offices with rat corpses. And sure enough the rat tails started to pour in. But then people started to notice that the rats were still there, they were just missing their tails. A dead rat can't generate any more money after all, but an alive rat (without a tail) can produce more rats which means more money. People even began smuggling rats into the country and set up rat breeding farms. The government then gave up one extermination the rats and in 1906 there was an outbreak of the bubonic plague in Hanoi. Paul Doumer, the then governor of French Indochina and the man responsible for it all, later became president of France.
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Sep 5, 2020 17:20
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Alhazred posted:In 1902 French Indochina was overrun with rats. The colonial government hired rat hunters, but even though they were killing over 20 000 rats a day they couldn't even make a dent in the rat population. The solution was to set å bounty on one cent per dead rat. They even had the ingenious idea of telling people to just show up with the tail so to not flood the governmental offices with rat corpses. And sure enough the rat tails started to pour in. But then people started to notice that the rats were still there, they were just missing their tails. A dead rat can't generate any more money after all, but an alive rat (without a tail) can produce more rats which means more money. People even began smuggling rats into the country and set up rat breeding farms. The government then gave up one extermination the rats and in 1906 there was an outbreak of the bubonic plague in Hanoi. Paul Doumer, the then governor of French Indochina and the man responsible for it all, later became president of France. I've heard more or less this story but colonial India with cobras.
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Sep 5, 2020 17:23
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I've heard more or less this story but colonial India with cobras. I wonder if the same thing will happen in Florida with iguanas.
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Sep 5, 2020 17:45
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Iguanas, gators, and rattlesnakes are all really tasty and I dunno why we don't eat more reptiles tbh. I know turtle was/still is in some places a super common food even in the west. e: I imagine there's a lot critters like turtles, squirrel, etc that we used to eat loads of but they fell out of favour sometime between the Victorian era and the fifties due to being associated with lower class subsistence eating.
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Sep 5, 2020 18:06
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I've heard more or less this story but colonial India with cobras. It’s the one the phenomenon is named for.
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Sep 5, 2020 18:09
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Iguanas, gators, and rattlesnakes are all really tasty and I dunno why we don't eat more reptiles tbh. I know turtle was/still is in some places a super common food even in the west. Squirrel and dumplings is kick rear end.
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Sep 5, 2020 18:40
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You know what's underated meat? Horse. A good foal steak easily rivals beef.
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Sep 5, 2020 18:53
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Some counties put a bounty on coyotes because it was believed that shooting them would protect livestock. Many counties allowed you to bring in the nose. So hunters would skin out the pads of the paws and punch 2 holes in them. That turned each coyote in to 5 when collecting the bounty. It also didn't do anything to change the coyote populations. We are now experiencing the same thing with feral pigs being a major issue but also a money maker for some landowners who would rather perpetuate the cycle.
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Sep 5, 2020 18:55
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Iguanas, gators, and rattlesnakes are all really tasty and I dunno why we don't eat more reptiles tbh. I know turtle was/still is in some places a super common food even in the west. Lobsters kinda did the opposite.
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Sep 5, 2020 19:05
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Lobsters kinda did the opposite. A lot of food did. Foie gras, for example, was made by jews in the middle ages which meant that few non-jews would would dream about eating it and anglerfish was thrown back into the sea for a long time.
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Sep 5, 2020 19:18
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Lobsters kinda did the opposite. that one is kind of interesting actually, it's partially a triumph of improved techniques. if you cook lobster while the creature is dead it significantly spoils the taste making it much less edible and that was the stuff that was considered inhumane to use on prisoners, lovely to feed to your indentured servants, etc. i have also read that lobster spoils incredibly quickly and to a very foul state - it made it impossible to serve anywhere but near water. at some point around the time the trains figured out they could offer fresh foods like this inland due to their incredible speed, some chefs figured out that the meat tastes much better if you boil them live and the infrastructures and technologies for keeping them alive and effective refrigeration and such really took off in a big way. it is kind of wild that in many supermarkets in Canada where I grew up would have what are essentially wet market aquariums. i can't recall seeing them in the UK though.
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Sep 5, 2020 19:37
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I've eaten frozen long dead langoustine (Norway Lobster) and boiled alive proper lobster and the difference in taste is negligible though there is some difference in texture. Anglerfish tastes almost identical to both. But I imagine modern freezing techniques go a long way to preserve the meat. Shellfish that's any less than totally fresh can be incredibly foul.
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Sep 5, 2020 19:48
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FreudianSlippers posted:I've eaten frozen long dead langoustine (Norway Lobster) and boiled alive proper lobster and the difference in taste is negligible though there is some difference in texture. they were (in america at least) traditionally caught like any other fish, ie, traumatically and to their demise. they most certainly did not see refrigeration (even of the primitive ice box sort typically) at sea, meaning the clock to them to start getting rank and full of horrible bacteria already started well before they got to shore. better techniques and infrastructure, such as non-lethal traps and special boats with hulls that let seawater in to the bottom of the boat so the catch can stay alive for longer, all contributed to lobster's ascension. the chefs discovering the technique was a rediscovery really - humans have been boiling lobsters alive since roman times at least.
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Sep 5, 2020 20:01
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