The BSS Movie Thread: Rob liefelf

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Yvonmukluk: Oct 10, 2012; Everything is Sinister

The Question IRL posted:

There's lot's of good arguments about Recasting versus Continuing on with new characters.

My gut instinct is Marvel will take the cowards way out and go with none of them.

Instead they'll just buy time by setting Black Panther 2 in the timeframe after Infinity War but before Endgame. You've got most of the cast of Wakanda still alive, but canonically T'Challa is dead at this point.

Then if they want to setup Shuri as the next Black Panther, they can sow the seeds for it here.

Alternatively, they go full Face/Off and say that T'Challa is in a horrible accident and they have to take Killmonger's face and put it on his body. Now T'Challa is played by Michael B. Jordan and everyone pretends to be cool with it.

Shuri was established as getting Snapped in Endgame.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 13:28

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# ? May 23, 2024 08:02

The Dave: Sep 9, 2003

You�re insane if you think Disney would pass on the economics of Black Panther 2.

Second, society just loving deserves it. BP sent shockwaves and was monumental for black super heroes. Look at how viral �Wakanda forever� was, it would be a slap in the face to everything they built culturally to stop it.

The Shuri transition seems easy but it sucks because it removes a black hero from the roster. Obviously it�s a complicated situation but kids of all races deserve to have a Black Panther.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 14:29

Sgt. Politeness: Sep 29, 2003; I've seen shit you people wouldn't believe. Cop cars on fire off the shoulder of I-94. I watched search lights glitter in the dark near the Ambassador Bridge. All those moments will be lost in time, like piss in the drain. Time to retch.

Yeah I was already curious as to what the power structures of Wakanda were going to be like 5 years after the King (who was also the spiritual protector) and Princess dissapeared. Like secession works by combat so in theory leadership has long been transferred to another tribe but the Black Panther mantle was specific to T'Challa's tribe and with no herb and no heir there couldn't be a direct line to a new Panther in their absence. Maybe Nakia would have done something different and become the new protector. Maybe Wakanda went full outreach to help with the worldwide effects of the snap. I wish they would have at least squeezed a line in acknowledging Wakanda's role, maybe instead of vague earthquake references.

Even before this tragedy we were potentially walking into a story where T'Challa had been replaced in one or both titles.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 14:55

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Didn't even think about that that's a good point

# ? Aug 30, 2020 15:02

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

Sgt. Politeness posted:

Yeah I was already curious as to what the power structures of Wakanda were going to be like 5 years after the King (who was also the spiritual protector) and Princess dissapeared. Like secession works by combat so in theory leadership has long been transferred to another tribe but the Black Panther mantle was specific to T'Challa's tribe and with no herb and no heir there couldn't be a direct line to a new Panther in their absence. Maybe Nakia would have done something different and become the new protector. Maybe Wakanda went full outreach to help with the worldwide effects of the snap. I wish they would have at least squeezed a line in acknowledging Wakanda's role, maybe instead of vague earthquake references.

Even before this tragedy we were potentially walking into a story where T'Challa had been replaced in one or both titles.

Or if not Nakia, M'Baku who perhaps was trying to continue things like T'Challa would in M'Baku's own unique fashion. Also it's never wrong when Winston Duke gets a paycheck.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 15:12

SonicRulez: Aug 6, 2013; GOTTA GO FIST

So like...does someone at some point stop Illyana or call her out? Does the movie in any way decide to tackle that? Maybe I don't get Magik, but it's striking me as odd for a Russian woman to be prejudice against Native Americans.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 16:07

McCloud: Oct 27, 2005

SonicRulez posted:

So like...does someone at some point stop Illyana or call her out? Does the movie in any way decide to tackle that? Maybe I don't get Magik, but it's striking me as odd for a Russian woman to be prejudice against Native Americans.

Yeah, who's ever heard of a prejudiced russian?

# ? Aug 30, 2020 16:40

JordanKai: Aug 19, 2011; Get high and think of me.

I was willing to let the comment on Native Americans slide when I was still under the impression that it was a one-off thing, but seeing that it's a running "gag" is a little displeasing. Doubly so in light of the director's comments on racism in Brazil.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 17:19

Lurdiak: Feb 26, 2006; I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.

site posted:

I really don't see a scene in which mbaku beats the crap out of Shuri to take the mantle of BP from her winning over audiences tbh.

Why would they fight over it, Shuri didn't want that job in the first place.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 17:57

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

I know by infinity war there is at the least a truce between tchalla and mbaku but mbaku is a traditionalist who already has a beef with Shuri specifically in BP so he doesn't strike me as one to just accept the role being given like that

# ? Aug 30, 2020 18:17

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

site posted:

he doesn't strike me as one to just accept the role being given like that

I'm sure Killmonger caused a bit of a ... realignment... of the Wakandan political scene.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 18:29

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

You're not wrong, but I can easily imagine between killmonger and everybody getting dusted a reactionary like mbaku would grip even tighter to tradition.

Hell for all I know he might even be king now already. Everything up in the air now

# ? Aug 30, 2020 18:33

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

I kind of felt his second-half scenes in BP were kind of takin the piss on him being an out of touch diehard (lol jk we're vegan, I saved your king btw).

Maybe that's just cuz the dude is cool

# ? Aug 30, 2020 18:37

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Yeah by the end he does have a bit of a goofy cousin vibe to him, but at the outset when he challenges tchalla for the crown he calls out wakandas drifting from tradition and specifically Shuri and her flaunting of it in her developing technological advances that did not get any resolution in the film. So that's what I'm basing my original post on

# ? Aug 30, 2020 18:42

Endless Mike: Aug 13, 2003

ABC is running Black Panther commercial-free tonight, if anyone wants to argue if it's a CIA psyop or not with fresh eyes.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 18:54

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

SonicRulez posted:

So like...does someone at some point stop Illyana or call her out? Does the movie in any way decide to tackle that? Maybe I don't get Magik, but it's striking me as odd for a Russian woman to be prejudice against Native Americans.

Yeah. Like right after the comment about the buffalo wings, Dani has her stand up to the bully moment, where she gets in Illyana�s face, and tells her how pathetic and immature her insults are.

Illyana isn�t a very nice person, and is also trying to antagonize Dani into using her power that nobody, even Dani, knows what it is.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 19:06

Barry Convex: Sep 1, 2005; Think of the good things, Pim! The good things!

Like Jesus, candy, and crackerjacks! Ice cream and cake and lots o'laffs!
Grandma, Grandpa, and Uncle Joe! Larry, Curly, and brother Moe!

a day later, my gut feeling is still that Marvel Studios won�t recast. No particularly strong feelings on whether they should or shouldn�t though

# ? Aug 30, 2020 19:51

Gavok: Oct 10, 2005; Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?

Open Marriage Night posted:

Yeah. Like right after the comment about the buffalo wings, Dani has her stand up to the bully moment, where she gets in Illyana�s face, and tells her how pathetic and immature her insults are.

Illyana isn�t a very nice person, and is also trying to antagonize Dani into using her power that nobody, even Dani, knows what it is.

To add to this, while it's very much a movie that takes place in the X-Men universe, the plot is more comparable to Avengers Academy. The kids are led to believe that their therapy will lead them to join Xavier's school, but it turns out they're being prepared as villains for the Essex Corporation. While the other four have all had traumatic situations when their powers first kicked in that could be exploited, Illyana comes off as straight-up evil, with her files basically treating her as valedictorian. She freely admits to killing people and stuff. She eventually becomes better, but for the first half of the movie, she's straight-up awful and is supposed to be.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 20:12

Codependent Poster: Oct 20, 2003

Open Marriage Night posted:

Yeah. Like right after the comment about the buffalo wings, Dani has her stand up to the bully moment, where she gets in Illyana�s face, and tells her how pathetic and immature her insults are.

Illyana isn�t a very nice person, and is also trying to antagonize Dani into using her power that nobody, even Dani, knows what it is.

Sam also steps up but Dani cuts him off to do this.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 20:15

McCloud: Oct 27, 2005

Endless Mike posted:

ABC is running Black Panther commercial-free tonight, if anyone wants to argue if it's a CIA psyop or not with fresh eyes.

People were not capable of having that particular discussion here even before Bosemans untimely passing without meltdowns, I certainly do not have any faith in them being able to have that now. Also maybe not the best time for that particular discussion, yeah?

McCloud fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Aug 30, 2020

# ? Aug 30, 2020 20:28

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

The joke is that no one actually wants to have that conversation and also that it is an extremely inappropriate time to have it anyway

# ? Aug 30, 2020 20:29

McCloud: Oct 27, 2005

Arist posted:

The joke is that no one actually wants to have that conversation and also that it is an extremely inappropriate time to have it anyway

Yes, and that was my way of saying that making passive aggressive remarks like that serve no purpose and people should perhaps shut up about it.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 20:36

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Gonna DVR it so I can go through one frame at a time and find all the blue lives matter subliminal messaging Disney added

# ? Aug 30, 2020 20:40

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

McCloud posted:

people should perhaps shut up about it.

True, true.

Hey guys, did you know that Spiderverse is actually about *~consumerist branding~* and the PoC main character only becomes a person after becoming marketable himself with DayGlo SpiderPunch Action? :grin:

# ? Aug 30, 2020 20:44

Opopanax: Aug 8, 2007; I HEX YE!!!

Ryan Coogler posted:

Ryan Coogler on Chadwick Boseman:
I inherited Marvel and the Russo Brothers’ casting choice of T’Challa. It is something that I will forever be grateful for. The first time I saw Chad’s performance as T’Challa, it was in an unfinished cut of CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR. I was deciding whether or not directing BLACK PANTHER was the right choice for me. I’ll never forget, sitting in an editorial suite on the Disney Lot and watching his scenes. His first with Scarlett Johansson as Black Widow, then, with the South African cinema titan, John Kani as T’Challa’s father, King T’Chaka. It was at that moment I knew I wanted to make this movie. After Scarlett’s character leaves them, Chad and John began conversing in a language I had never heard before. It sounded familiar, full of the same clicks and smacks that young black children would make in the States. The same clicks that we would often be chided for being disrespectful or improper. But, it had a musicality to it that felt ancient, powerful, and African.
In my meeting after watching the film, I asked Nate Moore, one of the producers of the film, about the language. “Did you guys make it up?” Nate replied, “that’s Xhosa, John Kani’s native language. He and Chad decided to do the scene like that on set, and we rolled with it.” I thought to myself. “He just learned lines in another language, that day?” I couldn’t conceive how difficult that must have been, and even though I hadn’t met Chad, I was already in awe of his capacity as actor.
I learned later that there was much conversation over how T’Challa would sound in the film. The decision to have Xhosa be the official language of Wakanda was solidified by Chad, a native of South Carolina, because he was able to learn his lines in Xhosa, there on the spot. He also advocated for his character to speak with an African accent, so that he could present T’Challa to audiences as an African king, whose dialect had not been conquered by the West.
I finally met Chad in person in early 2016, once I signed onto the film. He snuck past journalists that were congregated for a press junket I was doing for CREED, and met with me in the green room. We talked about our lives, my time playing football in college, and his time at Howard studying to be a director, about our collective vision for T’Challa and Wakanda. We spoke about the irony of how his former Howard classmate Ta-Nehisi Coates was writing T’Challa’s current arc with Marvel Comics. And how Chad knew Howard student Prince Jones, who’s murder by a police officer inspired Coates’ memoir Between The World and Me.
I noticed then that Chad was an anomaly. He was calm. Assured. Constantly studying. But also kind, comforting, had the warmest laugh in the world, and eyes that seen much beyond his years, but could still sparkle like a child seeing something for the first time.
That was the first of many conversations. He was a special person. We would often speak about heritage and what it means to be African. When preparing for the film, he would ponder every decision, every choice, not just for how it would reflect on himself, but how those choices could reverberate. “They not ready for this, what we are doing…” “This is Star Wars, this is Lord of the Rings, but for us… and bigger!” He would say this to me while we were struggling to finish a dramatic scene, stretching into double overtime. Or while he was covered in body paint, doing his own stunts. Or crashing into frigid water, and foam landing pads. I would nod and smile, but I didn’t believe him. I had no idea if the film would work. I wasn’t sure I knew what I was doing. But I look back and realize that Chad knew something we all didn’t. He was playing the long game. All while putting in the work. And work he did.
He would come to auditions for supporting roles, which is not common for lead actors in big budget movies. He was there for several M’Baku auditions. In Winston Duke’s, he turned a chemistry read into a wrestling match. Winston broke his bracelet. In Letitia Wright’s audition for Shuri, she pierced his royal poise with her signature humor, and would bring about a smile to T’Challa’s face that was 100% Chad.
While filming the movie, we would meet at the office or at my rental home in Atlanta, to discuss lines and different ways to add depth to each scene. We talked costumes, military practices. He said to me “Wakandans have to dance during the coronations. If they just stand there with spears, what separates them from Romans?” In early drafts of the script. Eric Killmonger’s character would ask T’Challa to be buried in Wakanda. Chad challenged that and asked, what if Killmonger asked to be buried somewhere else?
Chad deeply valued his privacy, and I wasn’t privy to the details of his illness. After his family released their statement, I realized that he was living with his illness the entire time I knew him. Because he was a caretaker, a leader, and a man of faith, dignity and pride, he shielded his collaborators from his suffering. He lived a beautiful life. And he made great art. Day after day, year after year. That was who he was. He was an epic firework display. I will tell stories about being there for some of the brilliant sparks till the end of my days. What an incredible mark he’s left for us.
I haven’t grieved a loss this acute before. I spent the last year preparing, imagining and writing words for him to say, that we weren’t destined to see. It leaves me broken knowing that I won’t be able to watch another close-up of him in the monitor again or walk up to him and ask for another take.
It hurts more to know that we can’t have another conversation, or facetime, or text message exchange. He would send vegetarian recipes and eating regimens for my family and me to follow during the pandemic. He would check in on me and my loved ones, even as he dealt with the scourge of cancer.
In African cultures we often refer to loved ones that have passed on as ancestors. Sometimes you are genetically related. Sometimes you are not. I had the privilege of directing scenes of Chad’s character, T’Challa, communicating with the ancestors of Wakanda. We were in Atlanta, in an abandoned warehouse, with bluescreens, and massive movie lights, but Chad’s performance made it feel real. I think it was because from the time that I met him, the ancestors spoke through him. It’s no secret to me now how he was able to skillfully portray some of our most notable ones. I had no doubt that he would live on and continue to bless us with more. But it is with a heavy heart and a sense of deep gratitude to have ever been in his presence, that I have to reckon with the fact that Chad is an ancestor now. And I know that he will watch over us, until we meet again.

Christ, Coogler had no idea. Boseman was tough as hell.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 21:16

TwoPair: Mar 28, 2010; Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta; Grimey Drawer

site posted:

Gonna DVR it so I can go through one frame at a time and find all the blue lives matter subliminal messaging Disney added

AIC EHT NIOJ

# ? Aug 30, 2020 21:18

McCloud: Oct 27, 2005

FilthyImp posted:

True, true.

Hey guys, did you know that Spiderverse is actually about *~consumerist branding~* and the PoC main character only becomes a person after becoming marketable himself with DayGlo SpiderPunch Action?

lol

# ? Aug 30, 2020 21:26

Unlucky7: Jul 11, 2006; Fallen Rib

FilthyImp posted:

True, true.

Hey guys, did you know that Spiderverse is actually about *~consumerist branding~* and the PoC main character only becomes a person after becoming marketable himself with DayGlo SpiderPunch Action?

Nah, its actually about how people are afraid of the hadron collider!

# ? Aug 30, 2020 21:52

Lurdiak: Feb 26, 2006; I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.

It's about a verse made of spiders.

# ? Aug 30, 2020 22:15

McCloud: Oct 27, 2005

Unlike a verse about spiders

# ? Aug 31, 2020 00:20

Esplanade: Jan 6, 2005

JordanKai posted:

I was willing to let the comment on Native Americans slide when I was still under the impression that it was a one-off thing, but seeing that it's a running "gag" is a little displeasing. Doubly so in light of the director's comments on racism in Brazil.

The movie opens and closes with a voiceover that is literally the "two wolves inside you" Facebook meme. So much respect for Native culture.

# ? Aug 31, 2020 00:25

Shirkelton: Apr 6, 2009; I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Retro Futurist posted:

Christ, Coogler had no idea.

That's really shocking.

# ? Aug 31, 2020 01:02

Opopanax: Aug 8, 2007; I HEX YE!!!

Rewatching The Avengers, and man Thanos' involvement makes less sense here than in Ultron.
He hands Loki the mind stone and sends him to invade earth to take the tesseract (presumably he also knows the time stone is there), but the entire plot is based around Loki powering the tesseract up enough to pull the Chitauri army through, and there's just no reason to believe he can't just roll up and do it himself anyways. Space travel in the later movies shows it to be nothing, and even if it took him a while he's not really in a rush at any point anyways.

# ? Aug 31, 2020 01:04

STAC Goat: Mar 12, 2008; Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

I interpret it less as Thanos not being able to do it and more of him delegating responsibilities the same as he did with Ronan in Guardians of the Galaxy. He just sent a bunch of people out on the job and they all hosed up and/or went into business for themselves so he had to resolve to just take care of it himself. Maybe at that time he was locating some of the other Stones or something Infinity Stone unrelated. Part of the entire Infinity Saga seems to be that all our heroes inadvertently "woke" the Stones so Thanos could finally locate them all and collect them.

But its been awhile since I watched the older ones so I haven't tried to connect the whole story.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Aug 31, 2020

# ? Aug 31, 2020 01:10

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

Retro Futurist posted:

Rewatching The Avengers, and man Thanos' involvement makes less sense here than in Ultron.

NoPrize: Earth is a backwater planet without intergalactic travel killing itself slowly so Thanos just hands it off to some lackey because wtf can go wrong kid knock yourself out.

# ? Aug 31, 2020 01:11

Ugly In The Morning: Jul 1, 2010; Pillbug

Retro Futurist posted:

Rewatching The Avengers, and man Thanos' involvement makes less sense here than in Ultron.
He hands Loki the mind stone and sends him to invade earth to take the tesseract (presumably he also knows the time stone is there), but the entire plot is based around Loki powering the tesseract up enough to pull the Chitauri army through, and there's just no reason to believe he can't just roll up and do it himself anyways. Space travel in the later movies shows it to be nothing, and even if it took him a while he's not really in a rush at any point anyways.

It makes sense when you consider that Asgard is still at full strength, and so is Ego. Both things that could absolutely gently caress him up if it becomes obvious that he wants to get all seven stones.

But really they just hadn�t thought through where the story was going yet.

# ? Aug 31, 2020 01:12

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

I think it was that they just hadn't planned on either of those items as containers of infinity gems during phase 1

# ? Aug 31, 2020 01:12

Lurdiak: Feb 26, 2006; I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.

The Russos are pretty open about the fact that no one knew exactly what they were going to do with Thanos until they sat down and wrote infinity war. They just knew they wanted to use him at some point.

# ? Aug 31, 2020 01:13

STAC Goat: Mar 12, 2008; Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

Doesn't Avengers end with Thanos going "I'll do it myself?" and grabbing the Gauntlet? So I think they very much did know they were dealing with Infinity Stones at that time.

But they certainly didn't have the full picture worked out yet.

# ? Aug 31, 2020 01:14

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# ? May 23, 2024 08:02

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

STAC Goat posted:

Doesn't Avengers end with Thanos going "I'll do it myself?" and grabbing the Gauntlet? So I think they very much did know they were dealing with Infinity Stones at that time.

But they certainly didn't have the full picture worked out yet.

Avengers ends with him talking about courting death.

Ultron ends with him saying "I'll do it myself", at which point he gets another army, another group of minions and almost immediately begins delegating.

# ? Aug 31, 2020 01:15

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > The BSS Movie Thread: Rob liefelf

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