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mdxi posted:Why can't you just be happy for me that I'll be able to play Destiny without it taking 10 minutes to start up and 35% of subsequent play time being loading screens for loading screens? Because that poo poo takes just as long to load on PC. For some goddamn reason, if you alt-tab during a loading screen, the load times are at least as bad as on console, if not worse.
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Aug 31, 2020 00:46
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does that game throttle cpu/gpu usage if it loses focus?
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Aug 31, 2020 02:13
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Apparently yes, but I found nothing to alert me to this other than the exorbitantly long load times, which just made me want to alt-tab and watch more and longer youtube videos while I waited for the loading screen to finish. Eventually I started watching said youtube videos on my phone while leaving Destiny 2 in focus, and that sped things up a lot, but it was really loving annoying until I found that out.
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Aug 31, 2020 03:14
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I wasn't sure exactly where to put this, but the video used an AMD CPU and GPU so I guess that's good enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO0-47to8-E de8auer made a video where he hooks up a hose to his bathroom tap water, runs it out to a PC, goes through a CPU water block, then goes through a GPU water block, and then back out another long length of tube into the bathroom drain The idea came from how apparently this is what a local lab does to cool their laser equipment The advantage is that you don't need a pump, and you don't need a radiator, and you don't need a fan, and you're not dissipating the heat back into your own room (nor do you need/want a way to cool the liquid) The disadvantage is, of course, setting up the plumbing to do this in the first place, and the possibility of build-up on the inside of the water block since the water isn't distilled, and of course all of the water that's running down the drain, both in terms of the environmental cost as well as having to pay for that water (though der8auer also does have a bunch of calculations from his perspective on how this would compare to a traditional water-cooling set-up) I wouldn't recommend this for all of the reasons of practicality, but it seemed so obvious once the concept was explained, and it is an interesting experiment
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Aug 31, 2020 08:37
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gradenko_2000 posted:I wasn't sure exactly where to put this, but the video used an AMD CPU and GPU so I guess that's good enough: I'm sure a galaxy brained bitcoiner has already done this making cryptos even more hilariously catastrophic environmentally.
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Aug 31, 2020 09:52
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Again, I'm of the opinion that if you're gonna do this, tie it into your toilet so that a flush purges your loop and replaces it with fresh cold water. I swear somebody DID do this apocryphally in the early days of the internet... At any rate, everyone uses the bathroom, and toilets don't care if you flush with warm water or cold. Though your toches might benefit, if you hate cold toilet seats.
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Aug 31, 2020 10:10
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IBM has been working on routing water through stacked chips as a cooling solution for ~12 years now. https://phys.org/news/2008-06-ibm-cools-d-chips.html More recent details: https://www.zurich.ibm.com/st/electronicpackaging/cooling.html It would be very interesting if they could pull it off and have a tiny processor resembling something from Sim Tower.
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Aug 31, 2020 13:03
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We have a whole thread of more or less ridiculous water cooling https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3786165 I'm not sure how useful this is on Ryzen processors at the moment, since even aggressive overclocking doesn't really bring out much more performance than the stock performance, and seems more limited by power delivery than cooling.
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Aug 31, 2020 13:07
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Apparently AGESA 1.0.0.8 was released by ASUS and ASRock and it supports Vermeer and Cezanne. Guess this puts release as extremely soon maybe a no more than a month (1.0.0.7 added RR support and 10 days later it was released), and maybe indicates AMD sees the 4000 series as an OEM release with the 5000 series for Vermeer and Cezanne. I'm guessing an early Cezanne release means Cezanne will be desktop first as AMD fills out Renoir orders still before it's rapidly phased out in favor of Cezanne in early 2021, say March? That means OEMs will all have solid designs by summer as well as updated old Renoir designs.
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Aug 31, 2020 13:38
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EmpyreanFlux posted:Apparently AGESA 1.0.0.8 was released by ASUS and ASRock and it supports Vermeer and Cezanne. Guess this puts release as extremely soon maybe a no more than a month (1.0.0.7 added RR support and 10 days later it was released), and maybe indicates AMD sees the 4000 series as an OEM release with the 5000 series for Vermeer and Cezanne.
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Aug 31, 2020 14:06
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I really hope AMD decluster their naming scheme because if there's OEM 5000 series parts while desktop 3000 series is current (and APU 5000 uses the same architecture as unreleased 4000). I just wanna fill my brain with other information.
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Aug 31, 2020 14:17
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gradenko_2000 posted:de8auer made a video where he hooks up a hose to his bathroom tap water, runs it out to a PC, goes through a CPU water block, then goes through a GPU water block, and then back out another long length of tube into the bathroom drain I have definitely seen this exact thing done waaaaay back in the early days of enthusiast water cooling, back when people were using aquarium pumps and car heater cores for radiators. Everything old is new again. Also someone who set up an evaporative cooling tower using a length of bigass PVC pipe and a showerhead. IIRC that worked really well too, if you ignored the biological problem (both stuff growing in the water since it's open to the air, and stuff growing in your room since it'll now be extremely moist). Vir posted:I'm not sure how useful this is on Ryzen processors at the moment, since even aggressive overclocking doesn't really bring out much more performance than the stock performance, and seems more limited by power delivery than cooling. pretty sure the limit isn't power, just a pure clockspeed barrier. the things don't go above 4.6 for love or money, and AMD binning everything to find chips that could run faster for the XT line only got them 100mhz.
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Aug 31, 2020 14:40
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If the frequency limit remains in the next generation of Ryzen, then more cores or architectural improvements are the way to increase performance, right?
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Aug 31, 2020 14:48
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Vir posted:If the frequency limit remains in the next generation of Ryzen, then more cores or architectural improvements are the way to increase performance, right? Improving how programs are made is going to be the largest impact on future speeds. That and spreading the love over all the cores. I hear now, the major improvements are happening in the ram space now with its lower latency
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Aug 31, 2020 16:46
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NewFatMike posted:I really hope AMD decluster their naming scheme because if there's OEM 5000 series parts while desktop 3000 series is current (and APU 5000 uses the same architecture as unreleased 4000). I think 5000 series will be strictly Zen3 cores, as Cezanne is Zen3+Vega (Vega ALUs defintely, RDNA2 everything else maybe) and we know Vermeer is Zen3. I'm kind of wonder what the logic is of Renoir seemingly getting skipped over for desktop DIY is or why Cezanne isn't going a similar route. Maybe it's a volume issue and the node process that Milan/Vermeer and Cezanne are on has limited enough wafers while Renoir can just gobble up the increasing fab space Rome/Matisse and supply OEMs until Cezanne can reach the volume needed in mid 2021?
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Aug 31, 2020 17:36
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EmpyreanFlux posted:I'm kind of wonder what the logic is of Renoir seemingly getting skipped over for desktop DIY is or why Cezanne isn't going a similar route. Maybe it's a volume issue and the node process that Milan/Vermeer and Cezanne are on has limited enough wafers while Renoir can just gobble up the increasing fab space Rome/Matisse and supply OEMs until Cezanne can reach the volume needed in mid 2021? Cezanne is actually coming late this year supposedly. They know this cycle of APUs being 14 months behind the mainline releases is hosed and not sustainable, they’re moving to a more forward stance with Zen3. Yes, this means that Renoir will barely exist in the DIY market before it’s supplanted by Cezanne. Although I guess the comedy option is that they may transition laptops to Cezanne rapidly and desktop is stuck on older Renoir again to soak up 7nm capacity while they're pivoting to 5nm. AMD hosed the Renoir launch badly, it launched at the very start of January and not a single product shipped with it until May, and it remains basically unavailable today (vendors are whining they can’t even get their pre-agreed allocations), and is completely unavailable in the DIY segments. Like, 4800U is scarcer than hen's teeth, it makes 10900K supply look great. It was very clearly a paper launch to say they had a 7nm product to put against Ice Lake, and then they figured they could rush it out within a few months and covid ended up happening and hosed up their timeline badly. It wasn't supposed to be "Cezanne supplants Renoir mere weeks after it finally launches in all market segments", but they screwed the pooch. And the answer to "why are they dragging their feet on retail APUs" is simply that the supply isn't there and this is the one they're not contractually obligated to produce. They can't even service the stuff they are contractually obligated to produce, hence their partners bitching about not getting their allocated CPUs. Which is why I don't believe the "it's just, uh, really high demand" excuse, if it was just demand then there would be no problem with getting partners their agreed allocations, they can't even do that let alone handle increased demand. It's a huge chip compared to the chiplets but it's nothing compared to the GPUs that are launching on 7nm shortly so I don't quite get it, they shouldn't be having yield problems, so it's gotta be wafer allocation, like prioritizing server at the expense of mobile. Intel finally getting 10nm working is also a big part of why Cezanne got pulled up, Tiger Lake beats Renoir performance significantly on a per-core basis, the laptop market largely doesn't care that AMD has more cores, mobile performance is heavily dependent on per-core performance, and Tiger Lake-H will match Renoir's core count later this year/early next year anyway. They gotta get their replacement in-market ASAP, sitting on their rear end for another 14 months after desktop Zen3 launches would put them in line for an late 2021/early 2022 launch of their Tiger Lake competitor in the mobile segment, which just wouldn't be acceptable. From a go-forward perspective it doesn't matter that they whiffed basically the entire Renoir product, there's no time to delay and recoup the expense, they gotta move on to Cezanne ASAP. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Aug 31, 2020 |
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Aug 31, 2020 18:06
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GRECOROMANGRABASS posted:IBM has been working on routing water through stacked chips as a cooling solution for ~12 years now. that is for babies. real men use entire wafers and have giant integrated power and cooling manifolds: https://www.eetimes.com/powering-and-cooling-a-wafer-scale-die/
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Aug 31, 2020 18:23
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Paul MaudDib posted:Cezanne is actually coming late this year supposedly. They know this cycle of APUs being 14 months behind the mainline releases is hosed and not sustainable, they’re moving to a more forward stance with Zen3. It seems from latest leaks Cezanne will beat Tiger Lake in per core performance. Rumors are +20% integer, so 33% faster than Skylake (Zen 94%, Zen+ 97%, Zen2 111%) while Tigerlake is supposedly only 25% faster. But DG1 looks more potent than the Vega+Navi hybrid on Cezanne which is still limited to 8CU. I'm just loving wild rear end guessing at this point and maybe Cezanne is a new laptop release while AMD continues a staggered approach (So 4000 series is Zen3 CPU, Zen2 APU), and Cezanne only appears on desktop with Warhol for the 5000 series.
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Aug 31, 2020 20:10
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I'm really fed up with these dumbass naming schemes. I went on Crucial's website to see about ram for a 3700x and there were QVLs for "Matisse" and "Renoir." Look, I'm a dude that has a computer that I like to tinker around with, but I'm not currently plugged into the micro-architecture scene -- how the gently caress am I supposed to know what internal naming scheme AMD uses for a goddamn product I own and how in god's name would I locate this info anywhere?
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Aug 31, 2020 21:24
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AARP LARPer posted:I'm really fed up with these dumbass naming schemes. I went on Crucial's website to see about ram for a 3700x and there were QVLs for "Matisse" and "Renoir." Look, I'm a dude that has a computer that I like to tinker around with, but I'm not currently plugged into the micro-architecture scene -- how the gently caress am I supposed to know what internal naming scheme AMD uses for a goddamn product I own and how in god's name would I locate this info anywhere? 3700X is Matisse. Renoir is the Zen2 APUs that are currently OEM only.
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Aug 31, 2020 21:32
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Paul MaudDib posted:3700X is Matisse. Renoir is the Zen2 APUs that are currently OEM only. Right / 100% correct, but he's got a valid point in that normal people have no idea WTF Matisse is because it doesn't appear anywhere on the box they buy.
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Aug 31, 2020 21:44
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Does AMD not have that on their product spec website? ... No, guess they don't. Intel's ark site gives the series codename, AMD should do that.
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Aug 31, 2020 21:47
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Klyith posted:Does AMD not have that on their product spec website? ... No, guess they don't. Yeah — Intel at least embraces the codenames fully and they always list it on ARK, almost every review site lists it, and Googling them almost always gives you the answer immediately (maybe not in the early days of Googling Deschutes, Tukwila, etc.).
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Aug 31, 2020 21:49
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I wish AMD had an equivalent of the Intel Ark. They kind of have that information on their site, but in a much more annoying format.
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Aug 31, 2020 22:35
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AARP LARPer posted:I'm really fed up with these dumbass naming schemes. I went on Crucial's website to see about ram for a 3700x and there were QVLs for "Matisse" and "Renoir." Look, I'm a dude that has a computer that I like to tinker around with, but I'm not currently plugged into the micro-architecture scene -- how the gently caress am I supposed to know what internal naming scheme AMD uses for a goddamn product I own and how in god's name would I locate this info anywhere? Goddamn I wish these silicon valley fucks would invent Google so I could look things up. AMD Ark would be cool, but chill my dude. If you're looking at QVLs, you can Google "AMD Matisse wikichip" and find this website: https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/cores/matisse
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Sep 1, 2020 01:04
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computer parts must be named incredibly poorly by LAW (i can only presume) scrolling through this reminded me of so many annoyingly named parts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_AMD_processors
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Sep 1, 2020 01:16
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Cygni posted:computer parts must be named incredibly poorly by LAW (i can only presume) with one notable exception https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJWJE0x7T4Q
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Sep 1, 2020 01:48
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NewFatMike posted:Goddamn I wish these silicon valley fucks would invent Google so I could look things up. You're assuming I should know that "matisse" applies to the internal cpu micro-architecture naming scheme and not some code name for a chipset, or certain type of memory. It's not presented in a way that clues me in on what I'm searching for. I found out eventually, via that cool google site you recommended, but c'mon.
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Sep 1, 2020 03:05
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So, as a recap: * Renoir is Zen 2 CPU cores, with Vega graphics. These would be something like the Ryzen 7 4700U for mobile, or the Ryzen 3 4350G for desktop (OEM only) * Vermeer is Zen 3 CPU cores, with no integrated graphics. These would be something like, speculatively, a Ryzen 5 5600X. * Cezanne is Zen 3 CPU cores, with Vega graphics. These would be something like, speculatively, a Ryzen 7 5700U for mobile, or a Ryzen 5 5400G for desktop. There are also rumors of: Van Gogh with Zen 2 cores, but with RDNA/Navi graphics, for the very low power segment. Warhol as a refresh of Vermeer (so Zen 3, no iGPU), or as something to bridge the gap in 2021's transition from AM4 to AM5 (DDR5)
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Sep 1, 2020 03:10
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gradenko_2000 posted:So, as a recap: And Genesis Peak on the Threadripper side of things, Zen 2 TRs.
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Sep 1, 2020 05:53
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Cygni posted:computer parts must be named incredibly poorly by LAW (i can only presume) Threadripper
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Sep 1, 2020 10:13
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So I finally got my pc up and running again. After discovering that apparently my 3700x straight up pooped itself (this took way too long to figure out), I got a brand new one via AMD rma. Of course, I had reset my cmos so I don't remember any of my bios settings. I have an asus X570 tuf. Is it generally recommended just to let DOCP do its thing and not touch anything else?
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Sep 1, 2020 18:53
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:So I finally got my pc up and running again. After discovering that apparently my 3700x straight up pooped itself (this took way too long to figure out), I got a brand new one via AMD rma. Of course, I had reset my cmos so I don't remember any of my bios settings. I have an asus X570 tuf. Is it generally recommended just to let DOCP do its thing and not touch anything else?
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Sep 1, 2020 19:02
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:So I finally got my pc up and running again. After discovering that apparently my 3700x straight up pooped itself (this took way too long to figure out), I got a brand new one via AMD rma. Of course, I had reset my cmos so I don't remember any of my bios settings. I have an asus X570 tuf. Is it generally recommended just to let DOCP do its thing and not touch anything else? Set boot to UEFI-only for a fractionally faster boot-up? Adjust fan curves for temps and pleasing noise? DOCP / XMP is the only big one for performance.
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Sep 1, 2020 19:36
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Yeah, I looked at the fan speeds. Seems like I'm set, thanks!
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Sep 1, 2020 19:46
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"the differences only show up with a 2080 Ti!"   (not that that was ever true in the first place but... now for under $500!)
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Sep 1, 2020 19:59
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Paul MaudDib posted:"the differences only show up with a 2080 Ti!" Nice. So if I upgrade my 970 to ... something (3060, 3070-ish) there should be some benefit for those 500-ish bucks.
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Sep 1, 2020 20:17
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3090 conspicuously absent on the price/performance chart ¬_¬
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Sep 1, 2020 20:37
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Klyith posted:3090 conspicuously absent on the price/performance chart ¬_¬ Take the 3080, draw a line with maybe 2% grade or so until you hit $1400
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Sep 1, 2020 20:40
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Looks like they couldn't figure out how to fit in the non-super Turing cards without overlapping text 
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Sep 1, 2020 21:36
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