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Lawman 0 posted:Was racism against the goths simply a result of their earlier raids or was it something else that made Roman's mad? By the 5th century they were the wrong type of Christian
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Aug 31, 2020 06:53
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FightingMongoose posted:I know this isn't quite the right thread for this, so sorry. Armstrong's a good lecturer, would recommend.
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Aug 31, 2020 07:15
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Zopotantor posted:This is a pet peeve of mine; normally I wouldn’t bother posting about it, but bear with me. My favorite reality show Horders was cancelled only two episodes in after several thousand accidental deaths.
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Aug 31, 2020 07:36
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Grand Fromage posted:If we want to be pedantic there's no way to know how many languages they represent, but the wiki list of undeciphered writing systems is pretty good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undeciphered_writing_systems Man, this is fascinating. I wasn't aware people 8-9 thousand years ago already tried writing, that's amazing! Now I'm wondering how many even earlier attempts at writing are lost to us, because their civilizations were never found.
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Aug 31, 2020 07:55
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Grand Fromage posted:Where's this coming from? Aurelian is easily one of the most interesting emperors. Meme groups, YouTube recommendations after watching 1 political and 1 Rome video It's not just thinking he's cool, it's the whole strongman fash fantasy thing
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Aug 31, 2020 11:11
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Miss Broccoli posted:Meme groups, YouTube recommendations after watching 1 political and 1 Rome video Counterpoint. Most chuds are uneducated dumbass who probably know 3 things about rome: Ceasar, Nero and what a legionary soldier looked like based on Asterix. Now can we move away from nazi chat?
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Aug 31, 2020 14:35
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Anybody who can name 3 emperors already knows more about Rome than 95% of the population.
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Aug 31, 2020 14:57
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Anybody who can name 3 emperors already knows more about Rome than 95% of the population. That seems like an overstatement. I think more that 5% of the population could name three, between Augustus, Nero, Caligula, Hadrian, Claudius, and Constantine.
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Aug 31, 2020 15:05
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Gaius Julius Caesar gets you plenty if you want to be lazy about it.
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Aug 31, 2020 15:11
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skasion posted:The Gothic War absolutely soured Roman attitudes towards Goths, but had been provoked in the first place by Roman state officials maltreating Goths on a large scale. Racism is a difficult word to use of Romans. I’m inclined to think that Roman feelings about Goths were the normal Roman distaste for independent barbarians, greatly intensified by the prolonged contact Rome had with the Goths as an assertive, aggressive, often autonomous faction within imperial politics. Most people forget that the romans were dealing with the Goths since the third century. The first time an emperor was killed on the field by a foreign elements would be the battle of Abritus in 251? Yeah that was the goths, they and the romans had been feuding with one another over a century before the more well known gothic wars. Perhaps the feelings felt were not one to one with modern racism but whatever drives that impulse combined with the regionalism that seems to pervade classic literature looks a lot like it.
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Aug 31, 2020 15:32
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While it might be a stretch to talk about being mainstream or known by the general population, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people knew about Marcus Aurelius now. I've often pondered why Stoicism of all Greek/Roman philosophies has a level of mainstream popularity that you won't see for Platonism or whatever. But there's frickin' Stoic Con and typical airport "What Would a Stoic Do" books right there with the Meditations.
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Aug 31, 2020 15:33
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How many boards would the Mongols hoard if the Mongol hordes got bored? I mostly remember the most detailed exploration of stoicism I've seen being Gotham, where Alfred talks about Thomas Wayne being into the idea of 'hiding your best self'.
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Aug 31, 2020 15:55
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Anybody who can name 3 emperors already knows more about Rome than 95% of the population. I just asked my partner for the names of three emperors, and she rattled off Octavian*, Caligula, and Hadrian without a second thought. I'm so proud. *We just watched HBO's Rome. When I asked her for the cognomen she was a bit confused and said Alexander. But he was rarely called Augustus in the show.
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Aug 31, 2020 16:04
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Dalael posted:Counterpoint. Most chuds are uneducated dumbass who probably know 3 things about rome: Ceasar, Nero and what a legionary soldier looked like based on Asterix. Do people outside Europe even know about Asterix?
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Aug 31, 2020 16:31
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Wait, is Asterix fash? I know TinTin isn’t great?
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Aug 31, 2020 16:46
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NikkolasKing posted:While it might be a stretch to talk about being mainstream or known by the general population, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people knew about Marcus Aurelius now. I've often pondered why Stoicism of all Greek/Roman philosophies has a level of mainstream popularity that you won't see for Platonism or whatever. I guarantee you more people know Marcus Aurelius from the movie Gladiator more than anything about stoicism.
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Aug 31, 2020 16:48
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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NikkolasKing posted:While it might be a stretch to talk about being mainstream or known by the general population, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people knew about Marcus Aurelius now. I've often pondered why Stoicism of all Greek/Roman philosophies has a level of mainstream popularity that you won't see for Platonism or whatever. Platonism is complicated, and many aspects of it seem clearly wrong now. Aristotelian is even more complicated, although there is at least one simple ethical/psychological insight from Aristotle (that virtue is largely a matter of habit) that I think is worthwhile. Cynicism is too countercultural; as amusing as the antics of Diogenes are to read about, few people are actually willing to imitate him. And a lot of Epicurean ideas are mixed in with more modern philosophies to the point where they seem like "common sense" to many people rather than a distinctive worldview.
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Aug 31, 2020 16:51
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I can tell you the names of 10 Roman Emperors: Caesar, Caesar, Caesar, Caesar, Caesar, Caesar, Caesar, Caesar, Caesar, and Caesar. Can't remember the guy who came after that though. I think it starts with a C? FreudianSlippers posted:Do people outside Europe even know about Asterix? I loved Asterix as an American kid. I god a bunch of the books out from the library. There's a lot of educational stuff in there, although it's mixed with old historical misconceptions and contemporary jokes about Europe, and it is literally impossible to tell any of those apart if you don't already know.
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Aug 31, 2020 17:02
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Schadenboner posted:Wait, is Asterix fash? I know TinTin isn’t great? Tintin evolved over time. He started off as a colonialist but by the end he was fighting with Central American revolutionaries.
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Aug 31, 2020 17:02
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Silver2195 posted:Platonism is complicated, and many aspects of it seem clearly wrong now. Aristotelian is even more complicated, although there is at least one simple ethical/psychological insight from Aristotle (that virtue is largely a matter of habit) that I think is worthwhile. Cynicism is too countercultural; as amusing as the antics of Diogenes are to read about, few people are actually willing to imitate him. And a lot of Epicurean ideas are mixed in with more modern philosophies to the point where they seem like "common sense" to many people rather than a distinctive worldview. Perhaps it's the lower case c cynic in me but I fear sometimes Stoicism is popular nowadays because look at the world we live in. The Stoics insistence on "you can't really do much about most things, just shut up and bear it" (to put it very crudely) can probably appeal to people living in a time of massive problems. That's the great criticism of Stoicism since the beginning, that it was a prideful egotism, all about mastering yourself and giving little care to the world or those around you. But you're probably right. Most people just read about Stoic ethics which is relatively simple compared to a subject like metaphysics which was near and dear to Plato and Aristotle. Although Greek ethics in general is refreshingly simple compared to more modern ethics.....
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Aug 31, 2020 17:21
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Tintin is literal fash in parts. The most egregious example being The Shooting Star which was serialised in the Le Soir (which served as a propaganda rag for the occupying German forces during WWII) from 1941 to 1942. The story centers on two competing expeditions to recover a mysterious meteorite. The group Tintin belongs to is mostly Germans and the evil group is Americans funded by a New York financier called Blumenstein. There's also a frame where some random Jewish stereotypes gloat that the end of the world means they won't have to pay their debts. When it was republished the banker and his expedition were changed to be from a fictional South American country instead of the US. FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Aug 31, 2020 |
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Aug 31, 2020 17:26
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The idea that the current world is uniquely worse than the previous years is one that has been going on for centuries.
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Aug 31, 2020 17:28
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I bought copies of "Tintin Au Congo" and "Tintin Au Pays Des Soviets" at a train station in, iirc, the Gare de l'Est in Paris years ago and my mom still has them lovingly displayed on top of other Tintin stuff in her living room. I've tried to tell her "no mom I was a dumb teenager, I bought them ironically, those ones are gross" but she won't listen. That's my Tintin story.
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Aug 31, 2020 17:47
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Gaius Marius posted:The idea that the current world is uniquely worse than the previous years is one that has been going on for centuries. The world sometimes gets genuinely worse in some ways. It also sometimes gets better in some ways. That's the reality of the world constantly changing so that it's always different, but most people don't want to do a whole analysis comparing the improvements to the decay, and often whether one outweighs the other will probably have a lot to do with whether you personally have been benefited or screwed.
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Aug 31, 2020 17:56
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I bought copies of "Tintin Au Congo" and "Tintin Au Pays Des Soviets" at a train station in, iirc, the Gare de l'Est in Paris years ago and my mom still has them lovingly displayed on top of other Tintin stuff in her living room. I've tried to tell her "no mom I was a dumb teenager, I bought them ironically, those ones are gross" but she won't listen. That's my Tintin story. "Soviets" has its contrarian defenders, but "Congo" is the really embarrassing one, yeah. I haven't actually read either, but I have read "Tintin in America." Herge obviously didn't know much about America, but it sort-of works because it's presented as farce; it's just overtly absurd enough to make clear that Herge doesn't intend his fantasy world of cowboys and gangsters as a realistic portrayal.
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Aug 31, 2020 18:01
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FreudianSlippers posted:Do people outside Europe even know about Asterix? They were popular in Quebec in my youth at least.
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Aug 31, 2020 18:10
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Jazerus posted:it is true that they stopped accepting new foreign groups toward the end of the western empire. like, socially. the late empire was pretty xenophobic toward some groups like the goths in a way that previous generations of romans simply weren't, and they absolutely paid a price for that attitude. not sure it's "the reason the empire fell" or anything, but it couldn't have helped. The reason was that previously Romans were the conquerors, and now they were the ones being conquered. Modern ideologies have nothing to with it.
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Aug 31, 2020 18:25
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Dalael posted:They were popular in Quebec in my youth at least.
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Aug 31, 2020 19:17
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Scarodactyl posted:Quebec is a little slice of europe, kid culturally. You probably watched Cities of Gold on TV too. Cities of Gold and many others too. Learned about the french revolution thanks to Lady Oscar
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Aug 31, 2020 19:21
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NikkolasKing posted:Perhaps it's the lower case c cynic in me but I fear sometimes Stoicism is popular nowadays because look at the world we live in. The Stoics insistence on "you can't really do much about most things, just shut up and bear it" (to put it very crudely) can probably appeal to people living in a time of massive problems. I think Stoicism is popular because it's easily applicable to real life. I also wouldn't say that Stoicism is "all about mastering yourself and giving little care to the world or those around you" is at all accurate to either ancient or modern Stoicism. Cosmopolitanism was and is an important feature of Stoicism.
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Aug 31, 2020 21:17
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Dalael posted:They were popular in Quebec in my youth at least. Yeah this is where I encountered them as well.
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Aug 31, 2020 21:19
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ChubbyChecker posted:The reason was that previously Romans were the conquerors, and now they were the ones being conquered. Modern ideologies have nothing to with it. this was before they took any territory - the hostility of the goths once they were inside the empire had a lot to do with how they were treated, although the history of conflict between them and the romans obviously did not help. i didn't say it had anything to do with modern ideology. xenophobia isn't synonymous with racism, and characterizing their xenophobia as racism would be wrong in almost all of the particulars even if the broad theme of intolerance was similar. it wasn't racism, but it was still ugly
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Aug 31, 2020 21:32
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Québec is just the poor man's France
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Aug 31, 2020 21:37
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Dalael posted:Counterpoint. Most chuds are uneducated dumbass who probably know 3 things about rome: Ceasar, Nero and what a legionary soldier looked like based on Asterix. You're really wrong but okay Modern fash are all about memes. It's designed specifically so people who take a 2 second glance don't look at it. Have you seriously not heard of Pepe the frog and and meme magic or seen any exerpts from the Christchurch shooters manifesto, who also famously spouted off memes during his rampage Livestream. Have you also never heard of hiding your power level, which is also a meme reference to over 9000? Aurelian worship is a part of white supremacy and appeals to ancient Greek and Roman culture are also. This is different to just thinking history is cool. You are wrong and completely uninformed, especially if your best response is just a well no actually.
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Sep 1, 2020 04:49
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gently caress, Rome was literally a pillar of Mussolini's fascism. Fetishising the ancients has been there from day dot
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Sep 1, 2020 04:51
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Sep 1, 2020 05:12
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Miss Broccoli posted:gently caress, Rome was literally a pillar of Mussolini's fascism. Fetishising the ancients has been there from day dot There was this real rash of Italian Renaissance strongmen trying to pretend they were descended from cultured ancient Roman families of Senatorial rank when their ancestors were actually Gulbus Capracaresser or Guthrum the Statue-Basher. And that was 500-odd years ago!
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Sep 1, 2020 06:01
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Miss Broccoli posted:gently caress, Rome was literally a pillar of Mussolini's fascism. Fetishising the ancients has been there from day dot that isn't exactly unique to fascism
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Sep 1, 2020 06:11
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Guthrum the Statue-Basher  not an emptyquote
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Sep 1, 2020 06:20
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Miss Broccoli posted:You're really wrong but okay If you said "Roman worship" i'd agree. Ceasar or Nero worship? Possibly too. But Aurelian is basically an unknown figure to most ppl with no interest in history and 99% of white nationalist chuds arent big on history. So i'm doutful about Aurelian in specific. He really isnt the most known of emperors.
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Sep 1, 2020 06:32
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