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DorianGravy posted:Do you all try to get all of the heart pieces in Zelda games? I've played most of the games, and never managed to find all of the heart pieces in any of them. I can find all the hearts in Zelda 1, but there's only a handful outside of dungeons anyway. Pretty sure I did LOZ, LTTP, OOT and LBW to 100% (including all upgrades, skulltulas etc.) but even I wasn't going to get all the korok seeds in BOTW.
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Aug 31, 2020 03:52
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Motto posted:iirc you have to do a Kinstone fusion at a specific point that lets you access the sky early to help an old man there, resulting in you getting gifted the Light Arrows later on. OK, still a bit weird for the series, but not as bad as it sounded.
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Aug 31, 2020 03:54
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:Pretty sure I did LOZ, LTTP, OOT and LBW to 100% (including all upgrades, skulltulas etc.) but even I wasn't going to get all the korok seeds in BOTW. Korok seeds don't give you heart containers, though. Unless you don't max the stamina wheel (which is crazy talk), even if you do all 4 Guardians and finish all 120 shrines you won't have max hearts, you'll be like 3 or 4 short, at least in the base game. Then again BotW is the only game you can just eat food to give yourself extra hearts.
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Aug 31, 2020 11:40
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I know this isn't the Metroid thread but drat if Metroid of the Wild isn't the game I always needed but didn't know. An open world, 3rd-person Samus where you shoot, explore, use the morph ball to get into tight places, use your ship to warp around on the overworld (and have the Speed Booster to cover intermediate distances and Shinespark over big chasms)...God the possibilities.
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Aug 31, 2020 13:35
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Fuzz posted:Korok seeds don't give you heart containers, though. I'm sure there are others. Didn't Contact (DS) do that?
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Aug 31, 2020 13:46
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FooF posted:I know this isn't the Metroid thread but drat if Metroid of the Wild isn't the game I always needed but didn't know. An open world, 3rd-person Samus where you shoot, explore, use the morph ball to get into tight places, use your ship to warp around on the overworld (and have the Speed Booster to cover intermediate distances and Shinespark over big chasms)...God the possibilities. Zelda pulled it off by offering a bunch of incredibly versatile tools, removing common movement limitations like being able to climb anywhere, and having a generally extremely open world design. All coupled with classic Zelda mechanics. Doing the equivalent thing for the Metroid series would be magical and perfect for a series based around isolated exploration of hostile environments and murder of local wildlife What I'm saying is Give me the ability to destroy almost any sort of terrain, with bedrock/lava/water/artificial structures as limit. Central tool is some sort of excavation beam that destroys terrain, but only stuns hostile creatures. World is mostly caves, creatures are designed to traverse almost any terrain / tunnel through, a lot in the world depends on opening up connections between caves: exposing places to sunlight, flooding places, herding super predators into hives of smaller enemies, gas expansions, and so on Would be cool
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Aug 31, 2020 14:03
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Fuzz posted:Korok seeds don't give you heart containers, though. I feel like everything in the thread is cyclical so I've probably posted this before, but eating food at any time plus Hearty Durians completely breaks the game and I hope BoTW2 changes the food mechanic somehow.
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Aug 31, 2020 14:35
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Agile Samus is cool but I definitely prefer the Walking Tank samus of prime 1 and 2. The flippy Anime stuff does it for me in some contexts but not sci-fi adventure Also I might be alone in this but Prime 1 is a masterpiece of level design IMO and I don’t feel like that level of intricacy is possible with a go anywhere map
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Aug 31, 2020 14:47
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jisforjosh posted:I feel like everything in the thread is cyclical so I've probably posted this before, but eating food at any time plus Hearty Durians completely breaks the game and I hope BoTW2 changes the food mechanic somehow. I've said it before too, but "game-breaking" things like that make the game playable for people who aren't very good at it, and the way to make it more difficult for yourself is to just not do the game-breaking thing. It allows for vastly more flexibility in skill levels, so Nintendo's not going to stop doing it. The first time I had this argument it was about how Nintendo should remove the ability to bottle fairies since that made the game too easy....
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Aug 31, 2020 14:50
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The move from 2D to 3D was such a bigger leap for Metroid than Zelda since Metroids were side-scrollers. It was very cool to see 3D characters and puzzles in OoT but it did not fundamentally change the game much by adding a z-axis to the hookshot and arrows. Compared to the top-down Zelda games the pre-Prime Metroids are practically 1D. I think this is really exemplified by the 2D segments in Link's Awakening, they feel so simple compared to the overworld.
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Aug 31, 2020 15:06
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I’m sure there are hacked versions of BotW where Link has to realistically stop and sit down to eat and drink and all the food values have been nerfed into the ground and some dry-skinned Gollum is wiping off his Dorito fingers before tuning all the weapon durability values and just drooling at his nearly “perfect” vibeo james
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Aug 31, 2020 15:15
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I’m terrible at video games, and without hearty durians I think learning Lynel patterns well enough to beat them up probably would’ve been too frustrating to bother with. After a certain point eating during combat becomes way less important, although I’m sure there are people even worse than I am. I just hope the right directional weapon change menu sticks around, because it’s incredibly satisfying to whack an enemy with a thunder blade, pick up their weapon, and then beat them to death with it, ideally throwing it in their face as a final blow.
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Aug 31, 2020 15:19
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:I'm sure there are others. Didn't Contact (DS) do that? I meant Zelda games.
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Aug 31, 2020 15:41
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thrilla in vanilla posted:Also I might be alone in this but Prime 1 is a masterpiece of level design IMO and I don’t feel like that level of intricacy is possible with a go anywhere map superjew posted:The move from 2D to 3D was such a bigger leap for Metroid than Zelda since Metroids were side-scrollers. It was very cool to see 3D characters and puzzles in OoT but it did not fundamentally change the game much by adding a z-axis to the hookshot and arrows. Compared to the top-down Zelda games the pre-Prime Metroids are practically 1D. I think this is really exemplified by the 2D segments in Link's Awakening, they feel so simple compared to the overworld. Yeah, I think an open-world "Metroid of the Wild" would be incredibly difficult to design. Zelda works well with a big open map because the game has always been about adventure. In BotW, you can practically run from one side of the map to the other as soon as you get off the plateau. Metroid, which has dense and complex environments, would be difficult to do that way. Skyward Sword tried to have a dungeon-like overworld, and I personally found it fairly tedious to navigate. You'd also have to re-think the item-gating mechanic of Metroid. In a big enough world, its probably frustrating to arrive somewhere without the right item, and not to know where it is. That's why there's no item-gating in BotW (outside of minor things like heat/cold resistance, which there are multiple ways to solve). You're given your set of tools on the plateau, and afterwards you can go anywhere and do anything as long as you can survive the journey. That said, I'd be happy to see them try. It's a really compelling idea.
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Aug 31, 2020 16:53
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I'd be very curious to know if Nintendo was originally shooting for a Metroid of the Wild with Prime 4 but had to scrap it and that's why they brought Retro back on.
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Aug 31, 2020 17:16
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Fuzz posted:Korok seeds don't give you heart containers, though. Yeah, I was going above and beyond just the pieces of heart discussion.
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Aug 31, 2020 17:31
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DorianGravy posted:Yeah, I think an open-world "Metroid of the Wild" would be incredibly difficult to design. Zelda works well with a big open map because the game has always been about adventure. In BotW, you can practically run from one side of the map to the other as soon as you get off the plateau. Metroid, which has dense and complex environments, would be difficult to do that way. Skyward Sword tried to have a dungeon-like overworld, and I personally found it fairly tedious to navigate. I think the open world idea could work if there were a LOT of small planets. It'd be a good way to gate off areas that require more advanced items to navigate. I think one of the 3DS games did this? Based on what expert players are able to do with BOTW's physics I look forward to the next Metroid game where you fire a missile, freeze time, jump on the missile, and then surf it across the map.
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Aug 31, 2020 17:40
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superjew posted:I think the open world idea could work if there were a LOT of small planets. It'd be a good way to gate off areas that require more advanced items to navigate. I think one of the 3DS games did this? Ooh, I like that a lot. Add in some stellar maps (maybe you have to find some maps on different planets, so it felt like you were uncovering lost knowledge), and I could see that working fantastically. Maybe your ship's sensors could warn you if the planet you approached seemed too hostile. You'd still be able to land there and explore, and there would still be opportunities to sequence-break if you were good enough, but it would still provide a little guidance. Plus, having multiple small planets would allow the designers to have more focused level design. I'm a sucker for exploring different planets. I really liked that aspect of Blaster Master Zero 2, as limited as it is in that game.
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Aug 31, 2020 17:54
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I've always secretly wanted to see a Zelda/Metroid crossover where Samus crashes lands into Hyrule, and goes exploring while she's waiting for the intergalactic tow truck to pick her up. She's doing odd jobs for the locals because she's bored and the local currency is emeralds. Hears that the Demon King Ganon can only be defeated by magical holy arrows but she's kind of curious if a fully charged plasma beam counts. I haven't thought as hard about Link, but I figure if he has an Amulet of Breathing in Space and a glitchy AI to scan poo poo he'll figure something out.
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Aug 31, 2020 18:11
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Item-gating is absolutely part of the Metroid experience so the open-world concept does bite into that a little but to be fair, you could have a world half as big as BotW's Hyrule that is fully explorable (with the other 50% item-gated) and the world would still feel very open. The idea of other planets to visit would also be pretty cool as long as the other planets aren't completely gated off. I.e. Norfair was never "off-limits" without the Varia Suit in Super Metroid but obviously you didn't explore it. Part of the charm of Prime 2 was that there safe zones even in hostile environments but once you were geared up, you could explore freely. Samus in Hyrule would be hilarious. I think she'd run roughshod over everything except for Ganon himself. Without Light/Silver arrows and the Master Sword, I don't think she could hurt him. Everything else can die to enough hits from a stick so I don't see why the Arm Cannon/Missiles wouldn't do the trick!
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Aug 31, 2020 18:23
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Well, maybe she could still hurt Ganon. If any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic... she could see just how literal that is!
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Aug 31, 2020 18:30
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Alternate option: Zelda blesses Samus' arm cannon.
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Aug 31, 2020 18:31
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Torquemadras posted:Zelda pulled it off by offering a bunch of incredibly versatile tools, removing common movement limitations like being able to climb anywhere, and having a generally extremely open world design. All coupled with classic Zelda mechanics. Doing the equivalent thing for the Metroid series would be magical and perfect for a series based around isolated exploration of hostile environments and murder of local wildlife You’re describing No Man’s Sky.
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Aug 31, 2020 18:31
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I don't want zelda planet to blow up after she's finished with it. Alternate take, Majora's Mask except you're trying to prevent Samus from blowing up the planet instead of a moon.Manoueverable posted:I'd be very curious to know if Nintendo was originally shooting for a Metroid of the Wild with Prime 4 but had to scrap it and that's why they brought Retro back on. I think it had more to do with them initially using Namco Bandai Singapore as a developer who seems to only have had their hands in 4 developed games total and only one of those games using more than a single person from that developer outside of some people from a marketing department (with the express intent of marketing those games in Singapore).
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Aug 31, 2020 18:37
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I don’t think item gating is that hard in 3D space, it’s just about dedicating yourself to always giving the player meaningful branching options.
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Aug 31, 2020 18:41
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Hyrule doesn't have to explode, the countdown timer is just because the Space Tow Truck arrived while Samus was fighting Ganon and after ten minutes they leave without her or charge interest or something.
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Aug 31, 2020 18:51
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Bust Rodd posted:I don’t think item gating is that hard in 3D space, it’s just about dedicating yourself to always giving the player meaningful branching options. Meaningful choices definitely helps. Still, having to find specific items in a massive open world can probably lead to frustration. Imagine needing to find the Varia Suit or Plasma Beam and not knowing where to find them in a game the size of BotW. For example, there are plenty of stories of people not finding Hestu until late-game in BotW and he isn't even hidden. Maybe Samus could have some sensors that point out the right way, but you also don't want too much hand-holding. One strength of BotW is that you can complete things in whatever order you want (or just skip things entirely) and major locations are typically visible at great distances. I'm sure you could make a really cool open-world Metroid game, and I'd love to see it, but it sounds like a challenge. Breaking things up into multiple planets, as suggested above, would probably give good results.
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Aug 31, 2020 18:58
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Right but those huge movement and exploration upgrades are typically locked behind bosses and/or dungeons, which are typically telegraphed pretty hard using environmental design. I agree locking major progression items behind Zelda style randomly hidden walls with no indication would be bad design.
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Aug 31, 2020 19:53
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Samus just rolling around a BotW-sized map pooping out bombs beside every wall and rock surface
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Aug 31, 2020 19:56
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Aug 31, 2020 22:50
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For Metroid to go open-world would require it to change in a different way than Zelda changed. Zelda's got stuff other than exploring hostile environments, such as towns and NPCs and relatively unthreatening open spaces in between the deadly areas. A distinctive element of Metroid is that you're always alone in a hostile environment.
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Aug 31, 2020 23:22
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Fuzz posted:I meant Zelda games. please just play contact. it was good
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Aug 31, 2020 23:24
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Bongo Bill posted:For Metroid to go open-world would require it to change in a different way than Zelda changed. Zelda's got stuff other than exploring hostile environments, such as towns and NPCs and relatively unthreatening open spaces in between the deadly areas. A distinctive element of Metroid is that you're always alone in a hostile environment. Ancient interfaces, Chozo statues, supply drops, recordings, holograms There's ways
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Aug 31, 2020 23:30
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Something that Super Metroid does in a more open setting could be incredible — granted I think that game is perfection. But I need to see really interesting things in the background that are just out of reach, for now, as well as dive below the surface and feel real tightness and claustrophobia before stumbling into a breathtaking cave, or hell itself. Never had a chance to play the Prime games, a little bit of a regret there.
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Sep 1, 2020 02:35
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sorry but if we have rope physics on the hook/grappleshot we'll HAVE to have a "AT-AT on Hoth" snarl the legs scene.
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Sep 1, 2020 06:11
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Just been on holiday and don't have anything going down on my Switch at the moment so I dug out my Zelda edition 3DS XL and started a second playthrough of A Link Between Worlds. It's such a great dose of classic Zelda (item rental aside) that it's wonderfully comforting to dive back into. I love how crisply it plays, and the 3D effects are really well done. I can't remember if did all the Maiamais last time, and given I'm now back from holiday and have Crusader Kings 3 dropping later today and am about to start Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, I don't know whether I will this time either, but I'll definitely keep sporadically plugging through until I finish the game. Still probably the 3rd best 2D Zelda for me after ALTTP and LA, but a really worthy game.
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Sep 1, 2020 14:21
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:please just play contact. it was good The game with the interludes if the Professor and his dog, Mochi? No, it really wasn't.
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Sep 1, 2020 15:02
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I never bothered with renting items in LBW, I was always swimming in rupees so I just bought everything.
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Sep 1, 2020 16:49
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:I never bothered with renting items in LBW, I was always swimming in rupees so I just bought everything. I think I never died so I just... had everything A little disappointing
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Sep 1, 2020 17:12
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I get where they were coming from: the designers clearly wanted you to be able to go everywhere, but didn't want to introduce a dozen dungeon items at the beginning of the game. But I think the rental mechanic was a bit half-baked. Dying and returning to the beginning of a dungeon is already punishment enough in Zelda; adding additional penalties just makes life harder for players who are already in trouble. I think something like "you can have x items at once, where x increases as you find certain valuable items in the overworld; if you need new items you have to return some of the ones you're using already" would have worked out better.
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Sep 2, 2020 00:40
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