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It's not HBM2E, everything indicates Big Navi (Sienna) has a 512bit bus with GDDR6, probably 16Gbps (so 1TB/s bandwidth). Considering the ~rumored~ 505mm² die AMD will probably cut it into 3; rumor says it'll be XTX, XT and XL so likely 6900XT and 6900 512b (16GB) and 6800XT as 448b (14GB). Then Navy will be 6700 XT and 6700 (384b, 12GB) and 6600XT (320b, 10GB). There doesn't appear to be anything lower than that, so expect Navi 10 and 14 to get the Polaris treatment; utilize the newer process that improves the voltage curve and create more dark silicon so you get the TDP to drop like, 40-50W along the optimal voltage/frequency (but expect it to clock higher and then go absolutely berserk on TDP like Polaris 30 did). That takes care of the 6500XT, 6500, 6300XT and 6300. It's CDNA that's going to get HBM2E because it's supposed to be a loving titanic number cruncher. If Apple doesn't move away from Radeon in 2021 expect then and only then for a Big Navi to feature HBM2E (wonder if Apple would sell RDNA2 and CDNA1 cards at the same time)
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Sep 2, 2020 18:04
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Sickening posted:To be honest this feels like a rumor you spread to make it more likely you get an order in. Indeed. Especially with NVidia saying that, from their end at least, they didn't have a huge problem with bots for the 20-series launch because they limited quantities to 1 or 2. "Lol we're gonna put you in a delay timer" only works to catch bots if no one knows about it. And it'll catch a ton of legitimate users, too, and piss them the gently caress off--and then they're gonna just lose out again to bots when the timer ends anyhow, meaning you've just pissed off a bunch of customers for no real gain. Hence wondering what vendors are actually planning on doing such a dumb thing. e; I think the better option is doing something like ComicCon does: everyone gets an hour or whatever to join a waiting room, then when sales start you get randomly pulled and given an opportunity to purchase and check out within a 10 minute time frame or whatever. Combine that with quantity limits and that's about the best you can do to level the playing field. DrDork fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Sep 2, 2020 |
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Sep 2, 2020 18:07
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Taima posted:Nvidia isn't exactly doing its best to be transparent, to be fair. In fact this is probably the least transparent GPU launch I can remember but I would be interested to hear if people can think of others. Think how the console guys & girls feel, their stuff was announced months ago and they still don't even know what the release date is or even how much it's going to cost them. And we're getting new GPU releases the same month of announcement with clear pricing. It could be much worse.
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Sep 2, 2020 18:10
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Think how the console guys & girls feel, u cant make me
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Sep 2, 2020 18:11
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Mindblast posted:With the 1080 ti, people mathed out that it actually turned out to give more performance per dollar/euro than anything else. What are the odds this is happening again? If the performance and prices are as estimated this is looking exceptional. I'd like to see this math because it doesn't really make any sense unless your saying something like "replace anything that falls below a certain threshold and include that in the cost". 1080ti was a really, really good value but, like, a 1070 was half the cost for like 70% of the performance so I don't see where that math works out. The 3090 is a Titan. Its hilarious how people are impacted by the name change.
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Sep 2, 2020 18:13
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Think how the console guys & girls feel, their stuff was announced months ago and they still don't even know what the release date is or even how much it's going to cost them. And we're getting new GPU releases the same month of announcement with clear pricing. It could be much worse. Counter point: they've known exactly what they'll be getting for months now, while we spent all that time theory-crafting bullshit about cards we didn't even know for sure existed. Also there's a solid chance a lot of them end up with consoles before we end up with cards in-hand, so there's that.
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Sep 2, 2020 18:13
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Lockback posted:Giving away Geforce Now with purchase is pretty funny. "Here's this world-class graphics card and also a service so you don't need to use your graphics card at all" I think that's exactly the usecase for me as well and a lot of other grownups, although it would have been more helpful pre-lockdown when business travel was more of a thing. I assume them bundling it has some value for them; maybe more training data for DLSS? 
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Sep 2, 2020 18:14
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Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:online orders are only being accepted from 10 minutes after opening, so don't touch any of the sites then how do you know this? i've done so many pre-orders for low-stock poo poo and i've literally never encountered a system that works like this
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Sep 2, 2020 18:18
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Lockback posted:The 3090 is a Titan. Its hilarious how people are impacted by the name change. It's more than a name change. Go to the RTX titan website right now, they literally don't talk about gaming at all. It's 100% compute. In the presentation yesterday they did exactly the opposite and went completely out of their way to position it as a gaming specific card. Also the die isn't even fully utilized on the 3090, right? Wouldn't a titan presumably use the full die? If it's a titan then I guess everything with a lot of ram is a titan? If that's the goalpost, then ok.
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Sep 2, 2020 18:19
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space marine todd posted:I think that's exactly the usecase for me as well and a lot of other grownups, although it would have been more helpful pre-lockdown when business travel was more of a thing. I assume them bundling it has some value for them; maybe more training data for DLSS? The value is likely two-fold: (1) They can advertise the bumped number to investors and dev teams to help get around the chicken-and-egg issue of setting up a new service. No one wants to do the work of moving a game over to something like Now if no one is gonna play it, and no one's gonna get Now if there are no games worth playing. This at least will give them a larger playerbase on paper, if probably not in reality. (2) Some of those people might stick around and actually pick up a paid subscription later. Assuming running the service doesn't cost them too much money in the interim, that may be a net win for them in the long run. But, yeah, I think it would have been a more worthwhile pack-in a year or two ago.
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Sep 2, 2020 18:21
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space marine todd posted:I think that's exactly the usecase for me as well and a lot of other grownups, although it would have been more helpful pre-lockdown when business travel was more of a thing. I assume them bundling it has some value for them; maybe more training data for DLSS? CK3 is running on an A100 when I play it, so I think it's just basically allowing them to get something from the datacenters they are building up. So it's probably very very low overhead since all that hardware is sitting there mostly idle (by design), and gamers can get throttled without any impact. It's definitely early days, but I could see a world where for a lot of games its a superior experience for a lot/most gamers for games where some latency isn't a big deal. I've been dealing with Covid by escaping to my cabin about 1/2 time where I have a fiber connection, so it's a nice use case for me.
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Sep 2, 2020 18:22
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DrDork posted:The value is likely two-fold: Setting up games in Now seems really easy, they usually have games up within a few hours of release. I think it's just a hardware profile and go. Games get pulled because you can't suck up personal data if you are playing via terminal, so some game publishers/devs have cried foul. I think you're right about chicken and egg, but mostly on just bootstrapping use. I don't think the investment to update is all that daunting.
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Sep 2, 2020 18:26
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shrike82 posted:Nvidia's aggressive pricing and lineup was a reaction to Big Navi so I'm happy for AMD to continue iterating on their GPUs even if I don't buy 'em. I'm pretty sure the division is in the green, even if they're making peanuts vs Nvidia. It's 100% this. Corporations aren't going to cut you a better deal just because they're such nice guys and want to do you a solid. Competitive pricing before AMD even showed their hand means them green boys know something that we don't, and it's making them real sweaty.
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Sep 2, 2020 18:27
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Taima posted:Also the die isn't even fully utilized on the 3090, right? Wouldn't a titan presumably use the full die? Yeah the 3090 has 82 SMs enabled but the die shots show 84 SMs
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Sep 2, 2020 18:30
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lDDQD posted:It's 100% this. Corporations aren't going to cut you a better deal just because they're such nice guys and want to do you a solid. Competitive pricing before AMD even showed their hand means them green boys know something that we don't, and it's making them real sweaty. Not necessarily. They have to compete against their own 10 and 20 series cards if they want to induce people to upgrade.
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Sep 2, 2020 18:33
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Where are all the manufacturer order sites? I can’t seem to find an Asus shop or an MSI shop. All I can find so far is EVGA and the reference cards. I want to get ready for day 1 purchase and need all the info I can get to secure an advantage.
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Sep 2, 2020 18:33
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Kraftwerk posted:Where are all the manufacturer order sites? Mostly through your normal retail channels. Amazon, Microcenter, BestBuy, B&H, Frys, NewEgg, etc. https://us.msi.com/wheretobuy/main_us http://promos.asus.com/us/where_to_buy/ ASUS also has their own store: https://store.asus.com/us/ e; You can use something like https://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/nvidia/rtx2080ti/ to get an idea of all the places that normally have high-end video cards. They'll likely start populating 30xx links shortly after the pages start existing, which presumably will be a few days prior to actual availability.
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Sep 2, 2020 18:40
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repiv posted:Yeah the 3090 has 82 SMs enabled but the die shots show 84 SMs
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Sep 2, 2020 18:40
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VorpalFish posted:Not necessarily. They have to compete against their own 10 and 20 series cards if they want to induce people to upgrade. The consoles are also a competitive force that shouldn't be forgotten. I think Nvidia just sees threats on numerous fronts and is willing to get out ahead of it, especially since they are for sure getting a great deal on fab from Samsung.
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Sep 2, 2020 18:42
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Is this snark? Graciously admitting defeat while trying to save face? I can't even tell anymore. https://twitter.com/AzorFrank/status/1301173699974967296
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Sep 2, 2020 18:51
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mcbexx posted:Is this snark? Graciously admitting defeat and trying to save face? theyre hosed
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Sep 2, 2020 18:52
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mcbexx posted:Is this snark? Graciously admitting defeat while trying to save face? Probably admitting the reality that AMD will make more money off of you if you buy a high-end NVidia card and get a high-end Ryzen/TR chip to pair with it than they will if you get a mid-level AMD GPU and mid-level AMD or Intel CPU to go with it. The pricing NVidia dropped for the 3070/3080 is going to ensure that, whatever Radeons come out, AMD is going to either be making tiny margins on them, or not selling many cards in the first place.
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Sep 2, 2020 18:57
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Shogunner posted:theyre hosed Assuming in the PC space that's even true (I mean it's just a post recognizing a big announcement from their competitor, it's nothing), think the 150m+ consoles between the Series X/PS5 they'll be a part of over the next 5 years will amount to some revenue
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Sep 2, 2020 18:58
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:yeah, i was seeing cost estimates of twenty bucks for the interposer which is pretty significant tsmc has an emib competitor in the works so the dream of tiny hbm gpus is still alive in a sense
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Sep 2, 2020 19:02
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:Assuming in the PC space that's even true (I mean it's just a post recognizing a big announcement from their competitor, it's nothing), think the 150m+ consoles between the Series X/PS5 they'll be a part of over the next 5 years will amount to some revenue I heard their PC CPUs are pretty good too. (zen 3 when????)
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Sep 2, 2020 19:02
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:Assuming in the PC space that's even true (I mean it's just a post recognizing a big announcement from their competitor, it's nothing), think the 150m+ consoles between the Series X/PS5 they'll be a part of over the next 5 years will amount to some revenue Revenue, yes, but probably not too much in the way of profits. While they've never given any direct numbers for what they made off the last gen, they...did not make much. With Sony/MS basically having bankrolled their R&D to get RDNA2 out the door in the first place, you can safely assume that they're getting sweetheart deals on the actual SoC prices out of that deal. It's part of what's let them keep the lights on these past few years, though, so it's not like it was an unwise deal for them. Their CPUs, on the other hand, are making them oodle of cash right now.
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Sep 2, 2020 19:02
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mcbexx posted:Is this snark? Graciously admitting defeat while trying to save face? only amd has pcie 4.0 on the desktop and they already own the diy market. AMD makes $ if you buy a zen cpu, x570 mobo and nvidia GPU. Similarly, nVidia is agnostic to intel v amd except insofar as intel has tried to kneecap non-CPUs with lovely IO/segmentation/integrated gpus
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Sep 2, 2020 19:04
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mcbexx posted:Is this snark? Graciously admitting defeat while trying to save face? Is it impossible for a person to congratulate a competitor on a good product any more?
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Sep 2, 2020 19:15
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I don't think AMD and NVidia are necessarily the biggest threats to each other. Mostly their competing against people just using whatever GPU they already have more than the competitor. In particular, anything that makes CPUs a bigger bottleneck is a net gain for them. They're going to get tailwind anytime NVidia does something cool.
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Sep 2, 2020 19:28
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Lockback posted:I don't think AMD and NVidia are necessarily the biggest threats to each other. Mostly their competing against people just using whatever GPU they already have more than the competitor. Only AMD having PCIe 4.0 also helps, even if I doubt it will make much of a difference unless you are buying a 3090.
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Sep 2, 2020 19:38
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Also, is it wrong that the wholly sensible $499 price on the 3070 makes me immediately wonder "okay, so what's wrong with it that we're going to find out about six months later?"
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Sep 2, 2020 19:38
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Also, is it wrong that the wholly sensible $499 price on the 3070 makes me immediately wonder "okay, so what's wrong with it that we're going to find out about six months later?" 1.5GB of the memory is slower than the rest
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Sep 2, 2020 19:40
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Also, is it wrong that the wholly sensible $499 price on the 3070 makes me immediately wonder "okay, so what's wrong with it that we're going to find out about six months later?" IIRC it's the original 2070 price, which was jacked up vs the 1070 so I don't see why.
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Sep 2, 2020 19:42
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sean10mm posted:IIRC it's the original 2070 price, which was jacked up vs the 1070 so I don't see why. I know, I just kinda feel like you have to be skeptical of ~everything~ nowadays. -_-
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Sep 2, 2020 19:44
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BIG HEADLINE posted:I know, I just kinda feel like you have to be skeptical of ~everything~ nowadays. -_- The most likely explanation is that AMD has something good cooking since that's it's only competition, buy how good / how much? Who knows. Or possibly new arch + architectural improvements meant they couldn't sandbag it any more, but I got my doubts in that one.
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Sep 2, 2020 19:47
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BIG HEADLINE posted:I know, I just kinda feel like you have to be skeptical of ~everything~ nowadays. -_- Not necessarily a bad approach
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Sep 2, 2020 19:49
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It seems to me that, at a higher level, AMD really needs to be concerned about the state of GPU compute software on its hardware. The fact that there is very limited support for deep learning frameworks for their hardware is likely to make it hard to innovate on features like DLSS, the streaming features, etc. The deep learning stuff is probably just the canary in the coal mine. I think it’s going to turn out that people want GPU acceleration for lots of consumer/enterprise, non-graphics workloads, and their software is so bad they risk falling very far behind.
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Sep 2, 2020 19:50
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Also, is it wrong that the wholly sensible $499 price on the 3070 makes me immediately wonder "okay, so what's wrong with it that we're going to find out about six months later?" youre gonna find out the consoles are fast I personally don't think Nvidia gives a flying gently caress about AMD/Big Navi in the PC world. AMD's marketshare is now in the teens and their product launches have been plagued by bad hardware (HBM stacks having different heights), bad partner implementations (down with the THICCness), and bad drivers. Nvidia owns the PC gaming world. What they are probably much more worried about are the consoles undercutting them by being subsidized by billions of Sony/MS bux, and game streaming services that cut them out like Stadia/Project xCloud. Its not who they are competing against in PC gaming. They ARE PC gaming. Its everything else competing for the gaming dollars.
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Sep 2, 2020 19:50
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If the bar here is set to see all new cards being the same price as the ones they replaced, then that's pretty low. Why should it be such a big deal they didn't raise the prices?
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Sep 2, 2020 19:51
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Nfcknblvbl posted:If the bar here is set to see all new cards being the same price as the ones they replaced, then that's pretty low. Why should it be such a big deal they didn't raise the prices? The price versus the old model sharing the same numerical designation is irrelevant. The performance offered at a given price point is what matters and it's looking like they may be offering significantly more performance per $ this generation. Obviously that's not substantiated until independent reviewers have cards.
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Sep 2, 2020 19:55
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