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Sep 3, 2020 04:50
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Omnicrom posted:IBO? stand up to the victory is lightyears better than the second victory op. come on. stop trolling. Shinjobi posted:You couldn't pay me to prefer Zeta's second opening. God drat that first opening slaps in the goofiest 80s way. Like, the first drum beat is enough to get me pumped. TenementFunster fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Sep 3, 2020 |
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Sep 3, 2020 05:06
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By order if the constitution, if people become psychic empaths in outer space we need to hand over the government to them. Was it so difficult to just write it that the original constitution gave equal representation to spacenoid colonies, or hell, independence following a given period of time or population growth? Why the hell the constitution had to be about newtypes decades before contolism and Newtype theory even existed is beyond me. In a show with a magic carpet ride to the end of the universe, the Federation Constitution remains the dumbest thing in a sea of dumb things that comprised the final episode of Unicorn.
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Sep 3, 2020 05:08
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thunderbolt gundam is very badass holy poo poo
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Sep 3, 2020 05:26
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Stairmaster posted:thunderbolt gundam is very badass holy poo poo
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Sep 3, 2020 05:45
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Arcsquad12 posted:By order if the constitution, if people become psychic empaths in outer space we need to hand over the government to them. The specific wording is "In the future, should the emergence of a new space-adapted human race be confirmed, the Earth Federation shall give priority to involving them in the administration of the government.", which isn't saying "give the government to space mutants", it's "yeah make sure that new space people have a say in the government", presumably since the Earth Federation is a government that encompasses both Earth and Space. That said, you're 100% correct that it's really goddamn stupid and out there that a founding government charter would include such a bizarre and out there clause based on literally nothing, because as you say, contolism and newtype theory did not exist for another half century. It would be like if the U.S. Constitution had an article that said "if werewolves become real, they shall be apportioned no less than six seats in the senate".
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Sep 3, 2020 06:10
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Tomino should beat those guys(the writers) up
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Sep 3, 2020 06:16
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TenementFunster posted:
This Christmas, Shinjobi fights the Japanese Gundam fandom. Watch as I get brutally torn apart by the female fandom, and ignored by the salarymen rocking Char cars.
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Sep 3, 2020 06:26
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TenementFunster posted:sorry, i'm not a child and haven't seen IBO This is a bad posting gimmick. Arcsquad12 posted:By order if the constitution, if people become psychic empaths in outer space we need to hand over the government to them. The punchline is that the writing of the constitution is completely toothless. To quote the thing it says at the end "...should the emergence of a new space-adapted human race be confirmed, the Earth Federation shall give priority to involving them in the administration of the government." which does nothing. Yes, the framing of the show suggests it's prescient and about Newtypes and represent how the Federation is trying to bury potential and Even So, but in universe and (and maybe out) you can credibly argue that Newtypes are not necessarily a "space-adapted human race" for reasons such as Newtypes appearing just fine on Earth so how are they necessarily "space-adapted?" And what Newtypes are is tricky and trippy and slippery and intentionally vague and so can they be confirmed as anything more than weird and semi-consistent oddities? And that identifying a Newtype in universe isn't really that easy because it's impossible to necessarily say who can become one or how so how can we give priority to them? And that Newtypes are not so much a race as they are numerous individuals who may represent early signs of a potential that hasn't been fulfilled yet so has a new human race really "emerged"? You can find a dozen different ways to stop Newtypes from "be[ing] confirmed". Moreover "shall give priority to involving them in the administration of the government" is a mealy-mouthed nothing that's vague enough to have no power. Moreover the Federation's fear has nothing to do with enfranchisement of psychic people and everything to do with them worrying that the colonies will use this as spin to try and bargain for more political power claiming to be the "new space-adapted human race" even though the overwhelming majority of spacenoids are not Newtypes. Even in the show everyone who finds out what's in the box concludes it's incredibly stupid and utterly toothless, by the time of Unicorn people openly state the scandal is not what's in the box but that the box was ever hidden. That was the whole reason Audrey gave a big speech at the end about how the Universal Century's beginning had people believe in potential so you should keep on Even So-ing. And even besides that it's not like the EFA actually kept to the ideals of equality expressed in the charter seeing how the colonies were a dumping ground for the poor and the underprivileged. And as Kanos points out the fact it's in the charter at all is real dumb. It makes a little bit more sense because it comes right after a similarly bizarre "In case of alien viruses we should try to have medical research" article (no, seriously), and I could believe some politician giving a speech in support of an ideal that's basically proto-proto-proto-Contolism but it's weird as hell it ended up written down in their fancy marble plaque.
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Sep 3, 2020 06:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXcb2rXuTPo Just gonna throw out that the G-Reco ending was supposed to be it's opening, or so I heard. And it's fantastic.
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Sep 3, 2020 06:53
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in order to satisfy the requirements of the newly discovered lost article of the federation charter a random cyber newtype is placed on one colony's local school board <- a show i would watch
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Sep 3, 2020 06:53
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Omnicrom posted:This is a bad posting gimmick. I'm still stuck between that or Space-Rape of Nanking as the worst part of Unicorn, I think the latter is more offensive to me, but the former is worse for the story.
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Sep 3, 2020 06:59
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ninjewtsu posted:in order to satisfy the requirements of the newly discovered lost article of the federation charter a random cyber newtype is placed on one colony's local school board <- a show i would watch Uma Lightning interrupts every meeting by saying that the school's One Year War history curriculum needs more emphasis on Johnny Ridden.
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Sep 3, 2020 07:13
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Omnicrom posted:This is a bad posting gimmick.
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Sep 3, 2020 08:58
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Onmi posted:Space-Rape of Nanking man it's been longer than i thought since i watched unicorn what part was this
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Sep 3, 2020 09:20
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ninjewtsu posted:man it's been longer than i thought since i watched unicorn what part was this It's more in the novels than in the movies, but it's Zinnerman's backstory. Long story short, it states that after the ceasefire was announced, the federation troops stations on Side 3 were furious, and to satiate their anger, the now prime minister coward that he was, sold the colony that Zinnerman's family was on to them to 'do with as they wished' leading to a mass genocide of the cylinder. I believe in the OVA it's just "Globe City" that got slaughtered. Basically it's one of the biggest "SEE THE FEDERATION ARE EVIL TOO!" moments and "THE ZEON GOVERMENT AFTER THE WAR WAS NOT LEGITIMATE AND COWARDLY SPACE SAMURAI BANZAI ZEON WANK" the usual. so it combines two things I absolutely despise: Portraying the federation as dog kicking evil rather than what they were, which was lazy evil, and making Zeon imperial Japan.
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Sep 3, 2020 09:43
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the thing i don't like about that story is the idea that the federation sold a colony to a bunch of soldiers (what the poo poo? did they all pool their money together? did the federation just sell an entire colony for nothing?), rather than a bunch of soldiers wiping out a colony and the federation government just turning a blind eye to it. it seems like it'd really be a small change but that'd feel much more in line with the federation's style if there really needs to be an atrocity like that also i thought zeon was imperial japan (with a bunch of other fascist regimes thrown in for flavor)
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Sep 3, 2020 10:16
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The Federation is kind of a capitalist disaster, though. Remember when they met a guy who wanted to wipe out Earth and sold him the means to do so?
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Sep 3, 2020 11:07
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Sure. I also remember one of the Federation members explicitly saying they felt they had no choice but to do so because (a) they needed the money for welfare projects and (b) Char was forcing them to the deal by threatening to destroy colonies if they didn't agree to it while also pretending that he wouldn't destroy Earth if they sold him the means he used to try to do so later in the film.
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Sep 3, 2020 11:10
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Darth Walrus posted:The Federation is kind of a capitalist disaster, though. Remember when they met a guy who wanted to wipe out Earth and sold him the means to do so? A few years earlier these same dudes were perfectly cool with someone dropping a colony on their own headquarters and thought it would help serve as some good old fashioned population control.
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Sep 3, 2020 11:19
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the thing that gets me is the scale of it. like, why not just say a few feddies got up to some poo poo with civilians, that happened to include zinnerman's family? that shows the dark side of the federation (people are still people and the federation had no real interest in restraining their soldiers when they had a war to win) and is way more believable and doesn't really raise any questions timeline or worldbuilding wise. but then unicorn is pretty much exhibit a of taking a mile when an inch would have way more impact
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Sep 3, 2020 11:21
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The Build Divers Battlogue comes out in November, but if you missed the Build Fighters Battlogue it's gonna go up on Gundaminfo today
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Sep 3, 2020 11:55
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tsob posted:Sure. I also remember one of the Federation members explicitly saying they felt they had no choice but to do so because (a) they needed the money for welfare projects and (b) Char was forcing them to the deal by threatening to destroy colonies if they didn't agree to it while also pretending that he wouldn't destroy Earth if they sold him the means he used to try to do so later in the film. They said that while one of their most senior members was living in a huge mansion next door to a slum, and while they had the first tickets off the planet. They were lying.
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Sep 3, 2020 12:02
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They did an awful job portraying that so, because the entire thing was literally watched over by a member of the Audit Bureau whose job it is to track and report such things, and who tells Bright about the treaty meeting without once mentioning that anyone there was taking the money for personal gain of any kind. It's apparently unbelievable that the Vice Prime Minister of a government that encompasses essentially the whole world could be rich without exploiting the system at every available opportunity. Never mind that the rich guy who lived in a mansion took public transport to the secret meeting. Which, yeah, definitely speaks to someone who is cheating the system. Public transport that was one of the last flights out of that spaceport, rather than the first available one. Never mind that he only took a small bag when leaving, and left his mistress behind without issue when she said she didn't want to leave. Things that don't suggest in any way that he was leaving for good, rather than just taking a temporary trip. Additionally, if Adaneur was lying then scenes like Bright pulling a concession from him that they can attack Neo Zeon only if Neo Zeon can be proven to be reneging on the deal or some Federation official telling a Federation officer that the Federation suspects Londo Bell is just agitating for a fight with Char to grab power like the Titans would be pointless. If Adaneur was lying, then he wouldn't care if Londo Bell attacked Neo Zeon, and if anything, it'd serve his purposes and help cover up their crimes by getting rid of loose ends. So he'd have no reason to be so reluctant about it. Edit: Double checked, and it's Adaneur saying that the Federation suspect Londo Bell is just itching for a fight with Char's forces, not a random official. Which he says while reviewing the (apparent) Neo Zeon fleet, which is actually just dummies and thinks that the sign they're heading off to surrender is a sign that Char is honest about the treaty. Again, a scene that'd be kind of pointless if he was really lying about it all and knew that Char wanted to destroy Earth but was happy so long as he was paid. tsob fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Sep 3, 2020 |
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Sep 3, 2020 12:08
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Ethiser posted:A few years earlier these same dudes were perfectly cool with someone dropping a colony on their own headquarters and thought it would help serve as some good old fashioned population control. I appreciate how after the Dublin colony drop in ZZ, Judau saw high-ranking Federation politicians eating and laughing at a table over how the colony drop meant they had less mouths to feed and he just loving loses it. He just jumps on their table, kicking their poo poo away and calling them out on how evil they are for treating the loss of human lives like it's some economic windfall.
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Sep 3, 2020 13:06
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amigolupus posted:I appreciate how after the Dublin colony drop in ZZ, Judau saw high-ranking Federation politicians eating and laughing at a table over how the colony drop meant they had less mouths to feed and he just loving loses it. He just jumps on their table, kicking their poo poo away and calling them out on how evil they are for treating the loss of human lives like it's some economic windfall. Judau's ending of just loving off to Jupiter is like... the best summation of his arc for that series. He just couldn't take it anymore, he saw this hosed up world, and all the hosed up people in it and just went... "Alright, peace. I'm out." Like... he saw the Federation's top dogs, and they were disgusting, and he saw Neo Zeon and it was disgusting, and he saw Haman, who was broken and couldn't even fathom peace. Then he saw Anaheim full abusers like Wong. And it's just... everyone is awful. Onmi fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Sep 3, 2020 |
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Sep 3, 2020 13:45
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TenementFunster posted:sorry, i'm not a child and haven't seen IBO
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Sep 3, 2020 13:49
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Onmi posted:Judau's ending of just loving off to Jupiter is like... the best summation of his arc for that series. He just couldn't take it anymore, he saw this hosed up world, and all the hosed up people in it and just went... "Alright, peace. I'm out." You skipped the best part which is Bright offering to let Judau punch him in a blatant attempt to manipulate Judau into being "rational", Judau thinking if he wants to be the "better man" as Bright's setting up... and then deciding that no, he just really wants to deck Bright Noa in the face right now and then just leave for Jupiter. gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Sep 3, 2020 |
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Sep 3, 2020 13:56
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TBF Bright is operating at a high socked-in-the-face deficit.
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Sep 3, 2020 14:03
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grassy gnoll posted:TBF Bright is operating at a high socked-in-the-face deficit. I'm kinda sympathetic to Bright in the original Gundam where he's a newbie in way over his head, even if he makes some dubious command choices and even then mostly early on. When he stuck around in the Federation military even after the complete and utter screwjob that is how they treat the White Base and only left them when the Titans directly tried to kill him in Zeta and kept up his command style, I got significantly less sympathetic. Then in ZZ he's explicitly trying to shape Judau into another child soldier Gundam boy from like episode 2 which is both terrible on the level of child soldier and also the best possible existent outcome is Amuro of the two examples so far which is oof and it just descends from there into him just being a low key villain a lot of the time while being the laughingstock of the universe as ZZ thoroughly strips him of his dignity. Oh, and then it turns out in CCA his wife and children live in a slum on Earth while he's basically incapable of understanding why there's a popular rebellion against the Federation (and a deadbeat dad). I don't like his portrayal in Unicorn much (like a lot of Unicorn), but he is hilariously useless with him threatening to desert the Federation and then doing nothing.
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Sep 3, 2020 14:28
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Onmi posted:Judau's ending of just loving off to Jupiter is like... the best summation of his arc for that series. He just couldn't take it anymore, he saw this hosed up world, and all the hosed up people in it and just went... "Alright, peace. I'm out." I think I have a slightly different read on it in that I think Judau is built up as someone who never gives up throughout the series. Not even when things seem definitely against him. He didn't give up on Leina, who everyone thought was dead for instance. Then it turned out he was right. He didn't give up on the Federation, even when he realized that the leaders were just going to let people die for their own greed and laziness regardless of how angry it made him and he never gave up on Haman. He recognized she was a broken person who wanted to do awful things but he always tried to talk her around to a different point of view, to be a different, better person because he knew she at least had some good motivations (Contolism, loneliness) where Glemy was just a greedy rear end in a top hat. Right down to their final battle he believed in Haman. And then she chose to kill herself rather than change, and he goes back to the Nahel Argama afterwards and as he's doing so the Federation sweep in to assume command of the situation after sitting the whole conflict out, there to take the victory they had played essentially no part in and that had cost lives and ended the hopes of others and it finally broke him. It was the final straw, and the man who never lost faith...lost his faith. Not in Haman, who was willing to kill millions to achieve her own ends, but in the Federation who let others do their work for them and just took the praise for whatever happened. And he just left. gently caress the Earthsphere, maybe things will be better in the Joviansphere. RevolverDivider posted:IBO is the best thing we’ve gotten since the first build fighters wtf I'm not even a big fan of G-Reco, but I'd still say it's the best thing we've gotten out of Gundam since the original Build Fighters. Or at least, I would have said that until Re:Rise really hit it's stride. gourdcaptain posted:Oh, and then it turns out in CCA his wife and children live in a slum on Earth while he's basically incapable of understanding why there's a popular rebellion against the Federation (and a deadbeat dad). I don't like his portrayal in Unicorn much (like a lot of Unicorn), but he is hilariously useless with him threatening to desert the Federation and then doing nothing. He's not really incapable of understanding it, since he and Amuro discuss how people in space resent the Federation for ruling the colonies from Earth, and are hiding Char because of that at one point about half way through the film. He knows quite well why they're doing it, he just doesn't think it's something worth rebelling over. Which, when every single attempt at rebellion against the Federation ends up co-opted by maniacs for their own personal agenda and whose plan ultimately boils down to "let's kill a load of people so that everyone will be too overwhelmed to resist us" and/or "let's gently caress over the entire Earth", it's hard to fault him. This is, ultimately, Amuro's point in the finale of Char's Counterattack; that people need to be allowed to change on their own, rather than be forced to change at the whims of an individual who may not even be right and whose agenda will probably just end up abused by others regardless. The Federation are lazy, corrupt and party to lots of awful things because of their indolence but they're the best of a bad bunch in UC, sadly. tsob fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Sep 3, 2020 |
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Sep 3, 2020 14:31
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tsob posted:I think I have a slightly different read on it in that I think Judau is built up as someone who never gives up throughout the series. Not even when things seem definitely against him. He didn't give up on Leina, who everyone thought was dead for instance. Then it turned out he was right. He didn't give up on the Federation, even when he realized that the leaders were just going to let people die for their own greed and laziness regardless of how angry it made him and he never gave up on Haman. He recognized she was a broken person who wanted to do awful things but he always tried to talk her around to a different point of view, to be a different, better person because he knew she at least had some good motivations (Contolism, loneliness) where Glemy was just a greedy rear end in a top hat. Right down to their final battle he believed in Haman. And then she chose to kill herself rather than change, and he goes back to the Nahel Argama afterwards and as he's doing so the Federation sweep in to assume command of the situation after sitting the whole conflict out, there to take the victory they had played essentially no part in and that had cost lives and ended the hopes of others and it finally broke him. It was the final straw, and the man who never lost faith...lost his faith. Not in Haman, who was willing to kill millions to achieve her own ends, but in the Federation who let others do their work for them and just took the praise for whatever happened. And he just left. gently caress the Earthsphere, maybe things will be better in the Joviansphere. I can see that, to the end he wanted to help Haman, and it is her last comment to him, that it was worth coming back to meet him, that sums up their relationship. But I feel it wasn't that Judau necessarily lost faith in the Federation alone as he... I think ZZ is one of Tomino's biggest "gently caress Adults" works, which is saying something because a lot of his works are "gently caress Adults". But I feel like Judau encapsulates that as his conclusion, a rejection of the mentality of the 'adult' that is focused on things like 'saving face' or justifying selfish greed by putting on airs of it being for others. Mineva is the big example of this, while this one is a body double, that whole concept is deplorable for Judau, how dare you take this child and use her as a tool, no matter who you are, it shouldn't be done. It also fits into the original ZZ plans of Judau as the "First True Newtype" where his ultimate cry was for people to wake up and cast off the way they viewed their lives. He is the antithesis of the Federation, of Neo Zeon, of Char even though he doesn't arrives, and of the darkness in the UC universe. Partially why in the (non-canon?) Victory sequel... he's packing up a colony to take to Alpha Centuri and give humanity a fresh place.
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Sep 3, 2020 15:15
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RevolverDivider posted:IBO is the best thing we’ve gotten since the first build fighters wtf tsob posted:I'm not even a big fan of G-Reco, but I'd still say it's the best thing we've gotten out of Gundam since the original Build Fighters. Or at least, I would have said that until Re:Rise really hit it's stride. It's wild that there's been so much good Gundam in the past ten years
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Sep 3, 2020 15:24
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I've been going through the shows in order because I'd never seen anything but first Gundam, and after finishing ZZ Judau is by far my favorite protagonist, ideologically. His utter rejection of the earth sphere is better than it deserves.
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Sep 3, 2020 16:08
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G Reco is probably tomino’s second worst work in Gundam only above victory. ZZ flounders a lot in the first half but it’s overall quite good and Judau rules
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Sep 3, 2020 16:41
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RevolverDivider posted:G Reco is probably tomino’s second worst work in Gundam only above victory. ZZ flounders a lot in the first half but it’s overall quite good and Judau rules Yeah, watching the first like ~15 episodes of ZZ you can tell why people skip it but it gets really good as it goes. I can't really fault anyone for not wanting to sit through hours of a bad saturday morning cartoon to get there, though.
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Sep 3, 2020 16:53
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I started the first episode of ZZ nearly immediately after finishing the final episode of Zeta and wanted to implode my computer
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Sep 3, 2020 16:54
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the difference between people who like and don't like tomino comedy
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Sep 3, 2020 16:55
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There's such a tonal whiplash between the end of Zeta and the start of ZZ that I think it's something you're better off giving at least a few days to let the ending of Zeta settle before starting ZZ. If not watching another show in the interim, like one of the One Year War OVAs or another Tomino non-Gundam show or something. I know ZZ aired immediately after Zeta, but even then, kids watching it would have had a two week break between the last episode of Zeta and the first (proper) episode of ZZ, and would have had time to process their feelings on one before jumping in to the other. Edit: I'm a huge fan of Xabungle, and think King Gainer is enjoyable, if weaker than Xabugle, but I would still recommend breaking up Zeta and ZZ at least a little and bounced of ZZ entirely when I tried to jump right from one in to the other myself.
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Sep 3, 2020 16:58
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| # ? May 15, 2024 04:37 |
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I watched ZZ a year after ZEta since I originally skipped it due to all of my friends hating it and I was pleasantly surprised. I even like the first arc of the first half and it only starts to suck once they get to space until around the first trip to Neo Zeon then it’s solid the whole rest of the run
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Sep 3, 2020 17:02
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