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TooMuchAbstraction posted:So, a question about DM style -- when a player proposes doing something that strongly suggests they've forgotten something extremely relevant to their upcoming action -- do you remind them? Or do you let them eat poo poo? always: "are you sure?" and when they say yes you make the consequences as severe as you can reasonably make them
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Sep 3, 2020 00:17
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Anyone got advice on DiA if the PCs leave the dungeon of the Dead Three to long rest? Like as far as what's changed, what opportunities have passed them by, etc? TooMuchAbstraction posted:So, a question about DM style -- when a player proposes doing something that strongly suggests they've forgotten something extremely relevant to their upcoming action -- do you remind them? Or do you let them eat poo poo?  and mentioning what they forgot. Mr. CN Hexblade Man-Spider is one of those players that loves to blast on ahead for "the fun story" factor, and until he learns patience the only way he's really going to learn is by taking consequences. Ol' reliable "Are you sure that's what you want to do?" is enough to get even the densest player to scour their memories and sheets for something obvious that they might be missing. Once you have a rapport they'll be able to tell if you're just razzing them for not seeing an obvious/easier solution, or actively warning them that pursuing their current course means death. If they continue-- let them eat poo poo. Then in the cases where they player is very green or otherwise very nervous about "screwing up" I'll switch to a more gentle tack, and use the whole moment as a learning exercise. "Have you checked your equipment or your spell list? What skills might give you more information?" It's important to recognize that some players need encouraging to take chances. When I take on new players, especially nervous ones, I always tell them "I'll never be cheap. You'll never die or ruin things for the party without me getting in the way first to help you, especially for the first few sessions. It's not a crime to be inexperienced and make mistakes." This usually works out-- I've gotten at least two dozen people from being completely green at TTRPGs to playing consistently, with a few going on to DM.
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Sep 3, 2020 00:28
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If it's something the PC would absolutely know I'll remind them. I mean, in game only a few days might have passed and/or the thing might have been pretty impactful but for the players it might be weeks or months later IRL, with everything that happens in life, so it's pretty understandable they forget something or don't think to check their notes. If, however, it's reasonable for the PC to forget they're poo poo out of luck. Makes for a good story.
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Sep 3, 2020 07:04
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:So, a question about DM style -- when a player proposes doing something that strongly suggests they've forgotten something extremely relevant to their upcoming action -- do you remind them? Or do you let them eat poo poo? Depends. Have they forgotten a well known or obvious fact about the world? (eg: The guy you're talking to is the baron / the river is 40' across / the floor is lava) I'd remind them. The character didn't forget this and it might make the fiction really stupid. Have they forgotten their own plan or intent? (eg: We're going to attack the baron after the explosions go off / we need to cross the river before we can be loud / we're going across the lava in this order) I'd probably nudge them with "you're going off plan?" Have they made a tactical or action-economy error? (eg: forgot to switch to frostbrand because the brazier's lit and the baron's now immune to normal and fire damage / thought they had enough movement to cross the river but came up 10' short even though the map's right there / said they wanted to chug a fire resist potion but used up all their actions before actually doing it)? Nah, that's on them and they can suffer the consequences but a new player or someone who's having a poo poo night should probably get some leeway.
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Sep 3, 2020 07:34
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I'm currently in the process of finalizing my characters (main + backups) for the campaign. While taking a look at the Blood Hunter class for my first in line backup character, I just had a realization I might like the Order of the Lycan, *if* it were reskinned as my Dhampir character going full vampire while doing so. I could probably easily just ask to change the flavour of it, but are there any interesting "Order of the Vampire" splats online somewhere? I am doing a quick google and some seem paywalled. Anyways, current characters: Main: -Psionic Soul Sorceror. Backups: Blood Hunter. Open Palm Monk. Artillerist Artificer. We'll be starting at level 1, but will have a one shot with "future versions" of our characters at level 7 to wet our toes and see if we like our concepts. The next campaign will be taking place in the vaguely asian fantasy themed kitchen sink continent in the DM's custom setting. In general I believe we're going for a concept where "It was all peaceful until the fire nation attacked" as our campaign hook. We're all villagers at a remote village near the ogre kingdoms when suddenly the Empire is being invaded by those aforementioned kingdoms and our village is destroyed, scattering us. For the most part I'm assuming only my Sorcerer was a part of the that village, with the backups being likely having different origins depending on when I either decide to switch for a change of pace or because I died horribly. My sorcerer was always a shy bookworm, but one day as a child their psionic powers activated, their head filled with thoughts from dozens of surrounding strangers in the market square they retreated deep within the library and books to avoid contact with people. Gradually they learned to control their powers when the ogres attacked (Is an Owl-Touched, sort of like Ptolopsis from Arknights, owl themed feathery clothes and hair with a colour scheme evocative of owls). The Blood Hunter though is probably going to be an amnesiac foreigner (this is the half-vampire), washed ashore after a shipwreck, coming from my DM's gothic horror continent based vaguely on a mix of the Witcher and Warhammer Fantasy. No memories of their past life, only a vague sense that there is someone they must find and kill with lots of skills useful for finding people who don't want to be found, and destroying apparitions that plague the lands. Thus turns to deftly dealing with such threats in return for coin. Living day to day while trying to recover their memories. I sort of visualize her as like a mix of Geralt and Gin(?) from Mushishi with a bit of Araragi in there. The monk is a brash, boisterous brute who enjoys getting into brawls, especially in front of a crowd accepting all challengers to prove their worth. A quick temper and solid fists leads to many such fights. Just wants to find the strongest, beat them up and take their title (Also a dragon person, not a Dragonborn they don't have those, but like Ch'en from Arknights with the tail and horns). The Artificer would be my first foray in a non-homebrewed version of the class. Artillerist looks fun and will have fun being the party tinkerer, item bot and sniping people with a musket. I went with a Guild Artisan background so the general idea is that they are a skilled artisan specializing in strange contraptions and high quality mechanisms, perhaps a gunsmith for the military who wants to find oppurtunities to test their inventions under battlefield conditions; also an Owl person. Just like the idea of a happy go lucky inventor person who is just happy to be able to invent as they please and use them freely and not have to be under the watchful eye of those stuffy old people managing the guild making her do other things like fixing clocks and stuff. Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Sep 3, 2020 |
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Sep 3, 2020 07:55
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Azza Bamboo posted:I disagree. I think DnD works best when you give the players the goal and allow them to work out the method rather than trying to interfere with the method. Give them a scenario where "don't go to 0" is the objective and have them figure out how. I wasn't being metaphorical. Players can't make the sun rise. The Earth rotates on its own until the part of the Earth the players are on is exposed to the sun again. Human intervention cannot achieve this. It is not possible. How is it possible for the players to stop their characters from reaching 0 hit points? This is not a trick question.
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Sep 3, 2020 09:21
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There's definitely styles of combat which are riskier than others, but the enemies have to be actual people instead of forever-hostile D&D monsters
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Sep 3, 2020 09:35
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pog boyfriend posted:always: "are you sure?" and when they say yes you make the consequences as severe as you can reasonably make them If you give a player the right shovel in the right way, they will thank you for making the task of digging their own grave easier.
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Sep 3, 2020 09:58
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Glazius posted:I wasn't being metaphorical. Players can't make the sun rise. The Earth rotates on its own until the part of the Earth the players are on is exposed to the sun again. Human intervention cannot achieve this. It is not possible. Controlling risk in line with what their resources can tolerate, isn't it? I mean that's the central tension of all D&D combat.
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Sep 3, 2020 10:16
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Liquid Communism posted:Controlling risk in line with what their resources can tolerate, isn't it?
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Sep 3, 2020 10:38
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Taeke posted:If it's something the PC would absolutely know I'll remind them. I mean, in game only a few days might have passed and/or the thing might have been pretty impactful but for the players it might be weeks or months later IRL, with everything that happens in life, so it's pretty understandable they forget something or don't think to check their notes. The example in this case was "PC 1 has shackled themselves to PC 2, then a few turns later decides to try to jump from one moving car to another". I'm not sure where this lies between "something obvious about the world that the character would know" and "character has made a tactical oopsie".
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Sep 3, 2020 14:49
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The example in this case was "PC 1 has shackled themselves to PC 2, then a few turns later decides to try to jump from one moving car to another". I'm not sure where this lies between "something obvious about the world that the character would know" and "character has made a tactical oopsie". I would probably ask them to make an Int check, DC 5. If they make it, tell the them “the instant before you jump, you realize you’re still shackled to your friend, who is not about to jump. Do you still jump?” Cause that’s real loving stupid.
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Sep 3, 2020 16:09
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The example in this case was "PC 1 has shackled themselves to PC 2, then a few turns later decides to try to jump from one moving car to another". I'm not sure where this lies between "something obvious about the world that the character would know" and "character has made a tactical oopsie". Would it be something you can see the PC doing? Like a big dumb barbarian or other character with low intelligence that would rush into such an action I'd let it happen. If it were a smarter character I'd probably say something like "As you move your leg to prepare for the jump you sense a weight around your ankles and remember you shackled yourself to PC 2. Do you still want to attempt the jump?" Optionally you could give it a consequence like have it cost half their movement (to account for lost time as the character changes his plans) or disadvantage on their next attack because they lost their balance or something. I wouldn't classify this is a tactical error because it's not a reasonable tactic in any case, they just forgot an important piece of information. Because it was so short ago I'd let them suffer some consequence: either let it play out because it wouldn't be out of character to do a stupid thing, or give them a chance to do something else but at a small cost. That way it's either funny and a great opportunity for roleplay, or it's a lesson that's not too punishing.
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Sep 3, 2020 17:45
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Can anyone recommend some good resources for monster crafting and encounter design? I know there have been some good links posted in this thread but I’m having a helluva time finding them. Much appreciated.
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Sep 3, 2020 18:04
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Liquid Communism posted:Controlling risk in line with what their resources can tolerate, isn't it? Oh, okay! Now, how is it possible for the players to assess and control risk and budget their resources appropriately? I mean, let me share my particular dog in this fight - I don't follow 5E developments super closely, but isn't it the case that the viability of in-combat healing is back to its 3.5e level of "somewhere between 'lol' and 'wut'", since at most levels casting a significant healing spell or using a significant restorative item eats up your action for the turn and won't even take care of the last turn's damage? Aside from the cleric cantrip that only gives you like three hit points but that's enough to come back from unconsciousness and hope you don't get hit? Isn't "hope you don't get hit" the entirety of most people's actual defenses, so that even if you brace to hold the line against four goblins knowing the DM only hits on a 16 or better, suddenly you can wind up taking over four times the expected damage because of a hot streak?
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Sep 3, 2020 18:08
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Well, its official. Waterdeep Dungeon Heist is by far the worst pre-made campaign I've ever run through, and thats including some pretty poo poo Pathfinder books.
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Sep 3, 2020 18:17
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Fashionable Jorts posted:Well, its official. Waterdeep Dungeon Heist is by far the worst pre-made campaign I've ever run through, and thats including some pretty poo poo Pathfinder books.  it is bad
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Sep 3, 2020 18:20
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Kaysette posted:
The campaign has been going well in a group I'm currently playing through Waterdeep Dragonheist with (as a player, I haven't DMed it), what makes it so bad? There doesn't seem to be't enough combats early on, but outside of that  .
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Sep 3, 2020 18:23
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idk how much you care about spoilers butToshimo posted:Oh poo poo, is it bag on Waterdeep Heist time again? Toshimo posted:The Tavern is a big dumb idiot thing and some of the bits seem purposely obscured to force you to but the Paid DLC on the DM's Guild put out by the author's friends. However, the unstated bit, for whatever reason, is that the Tavern doesn't need to be opened by Ch. 3, it can still be in the process of repair, or the DM can let the characters take loans that turn into plot hooks later. In short, nothing in the narrative assumes the Tavern is open for business, and characters need not accept the Tavern at all.
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Sep 3, 2020 18:29
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Madmarker posted:The campaign has been going well in a group I'm currently playing through Waterdeep Dragonheist with (as a player, I haven't DMed it), what makes it so bad? There doesn't seem to be't enough combats early on, but outside of that Your DM is either working hard to keep the game running, or secretly pulling their hair out while the plot ends abruptly five separate times because the players missed some tiny detail. It really feels like Matt Mercer was hired to write a story about how cool a bunch of big-name d&d characters are, and forgot to actually make a good campaign around it. (I know he's not solely responsible for the book, but I'm blaming him since he's the big name they used to sell the book)
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Sep 3, 2020 18:34
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Glazius posted:Oh, okay! Now, how is it possible for the players to assess and control risk and budget their resources appropriately? For starters they could deal with whatever contrivance it is that I'm involving in these exceptional encounters to create the "don't go to 0" rule. Like if they're on narrow platforms over lava they could use a wall of force or make some kind of toggle rope contraption. If vultures are hanging overhead the character with the highest Nature score would know their intentions without a shadow of a doubt, and they get a chance to go on a vulture cull before the combat starts. But the important thing is that it's their choice, and they're open to come up with a completely unexpected play. I'm not going to say "here's how you should deal with the encounter" or worse build the encounter with the assumption that they're going to take some specific means of solving the problem. Instead I'll make the danger very clear and see what they come up with, because I'm telling you some players can pull a second sun out of their rear end and all your dumb GM assumptions about Earth's rotation go out the window.
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Sep 3, 2020 18:36
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You can roleplay to make it more fun. Like I always imagined HP as an abstraction where damage above 0 are scratches, fatigue and mental damage and below 0 are actual flesh wounds with blood and gore everywhere. It makes sense that you need blessings from literal gods to survive and continue fighting after that. If that's not enough you can give people penalties in stats that make sense narratively for X long rests with Medicine checks. Hasty mending of flesh not gonna erase the fear of dying and not every tissue may connect correctly. Not gonna lie I'm inspired by Savage Worlds and Forbidden Lands systems. Their "health" mechanics are probably my favorite overall so check them out if what I'm saying makes sense.
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Sep 3, 2020 19:20
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denimgorilla posted:Can anyone recommend some good resources for monster crafting and encounter design? I know there have been some good links posted in this thread but I’m having a helluva time finding them. Much appreciated. first, this is the easy mode way of starting monster crafting. remember when you do this that this is one step in the process, but it is a good first read for learning about creating monsters and i use the templates of states as a framework before going in and fine tuning things - https://giffyglyph.com/monstermaker/ now, for encounter design. this is an art, and one that is very dependent on your party so i can not tell you how to balance or fine tune anything without knowing what exactly you are working with(once you get used to this... at this point i just eyeball everything and have no thought put into specifically what i am doing. it really does become second nature over time). i have a 6 step process that i broadly work in. balance is not included here because balance is very overrated and is like trying to perform calculus on an etch a sketch
another encounter design tip is if your party is pissing you off just start running shadows and rot grubs and poo poo. i dont know why they printed these monsters
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Sep 3, 2020 19:41
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Azza Bamboo posted:For starters they could deal with whatever contrivance it is that I'm involving in these exceptional encounters to create the "don't go to 0" rule. Like if they're on narrow platforms over lava they could use a wall of force or make some kind of toggle rope contraption. If vultures are hanging overhead the character with the highest Nature score would know their intentions without a shadow of a doubt, and they get a chance to go on a vulture cull before the combat starts. So... as long as they can freely manipulate the particulars of the combat arena, including killing as many of the combatants as they want, without actually starting combat, they'll be fine? I mean, fair enough, it is true that rolling for initiative has a nonzero chance of ending in the party dying helplessly, so you probably shouldn't do it if you want to live.
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Sep 3, 2020 20:10
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Yeah it's not a video game where the encounter begins as soon as they walk through the invisible wall detection, or where the mobs hang around the same place forever just waiting for the party to arrive. Also you're still binding the party to taking the specific course of action if you assume that fixing the arena is the only answer. I was using that as an example rather than as the be all solution to the problem. Tell me, when you buy a puzzle do you expect each piece to be numbered with the order it is expected to be placed in? Would you feel uncomfortable if someone had the power to trim the pieces to their own size and say "gently caress the picture on the box I'm making a mosaic out of this". Your insistence on prescribed solutions is growing tiresome. Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Sep 3, 2020 |
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Sep 3, 2020 20:24
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Azza Bamboo posted:Yeah it's not a video game where the encounter begins as soon as they walk through the invisible wall detection, or where the mobs hang around the same place forever just waiting for the party to arrive.
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Sep 3, 2020 20:32
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Yes, they sell jigsaws without edge pieces for just this kind of challenge. I'm not "mad" at that and I think most combats will have a whack a mole thing going on, but my players are the ones who've pointed out it's kind of ridiculous so I came to the thread for ideas on a combat encounter that amounts to a puzzle with no edge pieces. Instead what I get is "but how do they do it with no edge pieces, your players will surely fail and it will be too harsh". Anyway I've got what I want from the thread which are some really neat suggestions on things like the lightning trap, vultures and lava encounters. All we're doing now is arguing about the difficulty settings of a table you're not even at. Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Sep 3, 2020 |
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Sep 3, 2020 20:34
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I feel like what's being said here isn't 'you should have a prescribed solution to your fights', it's 'are your fights balanced such that it's mathematically feasible for your players to accomplish what you want them to accomplish? (IE, finishing the fight without anyone going to 0)." Balance is largely in the DM's hands, as is the effect and effectiveness of any sort of improvised/narrative tactic. You want your players to win on their own merits, and that's a noble ideal, but with how DnD works their fate is always going to be in your hands. The first question in answering "how can I stop my players going down to 0 frequently because it's hurting their and my narrative enjoyment of the game" is always going to be "is that a possible outcome that you're allowing in the first place."
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Sep 3, 2020 20:49
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I can eyeball the average damage output based on probabilities but in my experience the number of assumptions I have to make are way too high. I can always see that it's technically possible, even likely, but I also find that the players feel comfortable to run on HP fumes because you can always fill an empty tank in this game (pun intended). As an example, mathematically there's no reason that some of the times they've gone down would have happened if they'd healed in the middle turn rather than waiting for the go down. Again I don't like thinking this way because it prescribes a course of action and that's always a huge assumption in a sandbox like this. If the question is "is it possible for them to achieve", though, absolutely yes. I think they just need that flame to their feet.
Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Sep 3, 2020 |
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Sep 3, 2020 20:59
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Just FYI, your conversation is getting weirdly adversarial. You said that adding exhaustion to going down is kinda the way you want to go in, as in you want it to be a real threat that just getting back up because a cleric said the right words isn't enough, but you also don't want it to be too boring and mechanically driven. Am I reading that right? Maybe instead of a point of exhaustion you could do something more narrative and roleplay focused? Like introduce a kind of infection or corruption that takes hold of the dying, so that even if they get healed back up they suffer aftereffects. Maybe they lose some of their humanity, are slowly turning into undead, or lose their sense of self. Memories, while still accessible, become harder to recall. They lose some of their emotions and personality, that kind of stuff. Doesn't even have to have mechanical downsides. It's fixable, but does require some resources or a sidequest (to get those resources). You could decide for yourself how difficult a cure is. Maybe it's easy enough to find a restoration spell, or maybe they just have to hunt down a specific creature or ingredient. Maybe there's a big bad that's the cause of all this and it's an entire storyline. I'm just spitballing here and taking some inspiration from my own campaign. You could, for example, introduce a meteorite sent down by Hadar (undead and dying Eldritch planetoid being) that burst in the sky, spreading its corruption everywhere. So now there's shards from the meteorite that can be used to cure the corruption. This might give some fun roleplay opportunities for your players if they do get downed, while also being a hassle they want to avoid. Going down is kinda fun for a bit when it happens, because you get to play your character differently and the party has to deal with, but also kind of a hassle that drains the parties resources beyond just a spell slot and ingredients until they get a long rest. It could also introduce a new form of tension depending on how rare the cure is. "poo poo, we're in the middle of the dungeon and already lost one of the three shards we have, and we've yet to face the big bad. We gotta be careful because otherwise Jimmy, who's always the first to go down, is gonna get super weird again until we hunt down more shards." Like I said, just spitballing here.
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Sep 3, 2020 21:02
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Yeah one of the things I was spitballing here myself was having a trader offer some kind of reward to individuals who agree to give their body upon their death, on the understanding that they'd be warded against resurrection or (if we're addressing whack a mole) on the understanding that they'd be much closer to death as a result of this magical contract (perhaps only having one death save). In this scenario not only is it a roleplaying thing but it offers the players the choice of whether they want that danger or not.
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Sep 3, 2020 21:06
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I feel you on maybe needing to push the players a bit to get the right response, but I feel you're fixated on 'the solution to this is permadeath at 0'. This is more of a subjective thing on my part, but I feel that actual death is kind of a hard thing to roleplay around, especially if it happens more than once. Having the character story you're trying to tell cut short by 'whoops that goblin's crossbow crit you, RIP' kinda blows. I'm personally inclined to favor a softer 'you can heal yourself up from zero, but there's consequences, possibly temporary, possibly lasting.'
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Sep 3, 2020 21:10
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Sounds harsh, but good. I think the issue is that because going down isn't very punishing, your players don't really feel the need to roleplay not wanting to die. Like they forget that being at death's door is not just painful and terrifying, but something to be avoided at all costs. For any reasonable person, even an experienced adventurer, nearly dying is a lifechanging experience even if the cleric saves you with a spell. There's a disconnect where a cleric or bard can get you back up the next turn, so it doesn't feel like the big deal it should be. So yeah, I'd introduce some narrative or roleplay reason to avoid going down instead of looking at mechanics or encounter design to solve the problem. E: I realise now how lucky I am that my players are absolutely terrified of going down, and roleplay it well when it does happen. Taeke fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Sep 3, 2020 |
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Sep 3, 2020 21:16
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pog boyfriend posted:first, this is the easy mode way of starting monster crafting. remember when you do this that this is one step in the process, but it is a good first read for learning about creating monsters and i use the templates of states as a framework before going in and fine tuning things - https://giffyglyph.com/monstermaker/ If you had any sources that gave you inspiration on environment design, I would love to know. It's definitely a weak part in my combats, and every time I sit down to try and design a fight, I find I don't know where to begin. Monster abilities are so much easier to work with. I'm also going to second Giffy's, my players have responded pretty favorably to everything I've made using it. A bit of encounter advice I read somewhere was to give all your monsters at least two defenses they can target (AC and a save, etc). I've come to really like this, because rather than play "gentleman's agreement" for tanking, I just have monsters target the player who's strong or weak to their particular attacks depending on how hard I want the fight to be. It's certainly more interesting than watching the mobs try to whittle down the Totem barbarian's HP.
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Sep 3, 2020 21:18
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Azza Bamboo posted:Yeah one of the things I was spitballing here myself was having a trader offer some kind of reward to individuals who agree to give their body upon their death, on the understanding that they'd be warded against resurrection or (if we're addressing whack a mole) on the understanding that they'd be much closer to death as a result of this magical contract (perhaps only having one death save). In this scenario not only is it a roleplaying thing but it offers the players the choice of whether they want that danger or not. Didn't this whole discussion get started with "my players are confused as to why it's so easy to come back from 0 HP?" It's easy because it's a game, characters dying a lot screws up any attempt at over-arching story narrative pretty quickly, and everyone should really just relax. From my perspective it seems like everyone at your table is getting hung up on rules they don't understand/trying to play a different game with different assumptions/tone than what the game generally intends. Trying to build a better mousetrap in every single encounter for why "no really, you will die permanently this time" is just going to burn you out. This started with an evil wizard for some reason waiting to use his damage spell until people went down. That's a level of contrived logic that far outweighs that of the problem it's trying to solve. 5E combat balance is fast and loose as it is, and soft death rules serve as a safety net against that.
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Sep 3, 2020 21:32
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I wasn't intending to have a trap for every encounter or even most of them originally, just one occasional badguy who challenged the assumption by holding a scorching ray over the dying, thereby making their encounter(s?) more dangerous than average and standout. On that strand of the discussion, much better standout encounters have been suggested like vultures or lava traps that challenge the exact same assumption my players have been leaning on. However there is also the ongoing 0HP issue which some people pointed out as needing some kind of ruling for, and which my players have brought up. In response to that branch of the discussion I was spitballing other solutions. I don't see anything as a simple solution or fix, rather I like to just have a big toolbox and say well if some people want to take the faustian bargain and in other situations we have these standout battles and maybe there's some death plot with consequences. It's all tweaks that can be introduced and pulled back as the demand ebbs or flows. Also the bigger and more permanent the fix the more important it is that I don't decide it on my own but speak to my friends like "how would you feel about..." Like I said I've got what I was looking for: some things to put in that toolbox, like having some kind of harrowing consequence for a near death experience. Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Sep 3, 2020 |
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Sep 3, 2020 21:42
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Azza Bamboo posted:Yeah it's not a video game where the encounter begins as soon as they walk through the invisible wall detection, or where the mobs hang around the same place forever just waiting for the party to arrive. But a prescribed solution is exactly what you get when you buy a puzzle? The puzzle can only be put together in one way, and there's only one picture on it when it's done. There are extremes of the puzzle medium, of course - puzzles with a single way to put them together, but they have no picture so the shapes of the pieces are your only clue, and puzzles that are made up of regularly tessellating pieces in a limited number of shapes, where the picture is your only clue, and I'm almost certain someone clever has further iterated on the second one of those to create a puzzle which can be put together in multiple ways to create multiple pictures. If I buy a puzzle from a disreputable seller on Amazon and it turns out to be a bunch of factory-second pieces in a factory-second box, none of which fit together or make a picture, it's not fair to call it a good puzzle because I can recut the pieces so they fit together and paint a different picture on top of them when I'm done. I could do the same thing to the box lid and it would take less time. (well, it's a disreputable seller, maybe I can't actually) It's not fair to expect the players to exactly match your solution to a problem that you've thrown at them, or it doesn't work. But it's also not fair to present your players with a problem where you don't know that there even is a solution, and expect them to either be able to convince you that there is one or else lose in misery. You've created a game that you do not control and there's no guarantee anyone will have a good time playing it.
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Sep 3, 2020 21:56
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Azza Bamboo posted:I wasn't intending to have a trap for every encounter or even most of them originally, just one occasional badguy who challenged the assumption by holding a scorching ray over the dying, thereby making their encounter(s?) more dangerous than average and standout. However there is also the ongoing 0HP issue which some people pointed out as needing some kind of ruling for, and which my players have brought up. In response to that branch of the discussion I was spitballing other solutions. I think one of the reasons you're getting a lot of pushback is that 5E is designed entirely around pop-up from 0 healing. The system is made for them to hit zero, almost the entire value of healing magic in 5e comes from raising people up from zero, without that, the healer role basically no longer exists. Its understandable to not like that, but to change it would take a lot of careful work, with many changes having to be made to various game systems, as you can't just rely on players to play "better" or "smarter" due to it being an expected common outcome of combat, unless you plan on playing a drastically different game of DnD 5e from the default. Even instituting some light consequences from hitting 0 tends to just demoralize players because it just isn't avoidable unless you rework the entire system. If you want to go that route go ahead but from the reason people are reacting harshly, I think, is that they're getting the impression you're going to institute punishments without also balancing the other side to make those punishments avoidable. Buffing all healing magic so that damage recovered matches damage received would be a way of letting players mitigate risk, and give the healer a role again, but it risks drawing out combats to a ridiculous degree, especially if both sides have access to lots of healing resources.
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Sep 3, 2020 22:05
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I've lost track of whatever was being discussed because of all the analogies written with what appears to be the explicit purpose of making concepts harder to understand instead of easier.
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Sep 3, 2020 22:07
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I just think people are assuming the worst, like I want a level 7 party to fight a kraken with no unconsciousness or whatever. My approach to "balance", seeing as I'm now shooting at a third or fourth set of goalposts here, is to try something on the safer side and then ratchet it up. I don't try to have all the answers or boil things down to an equation because gently caress that, just having a dial labelled danger and seeing at what point on that dial people have fun is much better.
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Sep 3, 2020 22:26
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