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whydirt posted:DE definitely feels uniquely European in the same way that Fallout (at least 1, 2, and NV) is uniquely American, at least to my simple yankee brain. Probably because ZA/UM is an Estonian game studio with a sales office in London.
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Sep 3, 2020 14:40
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Haven't the lead writers been living in England for a few years now?
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Sep 3, 2020 14:57
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when is that dang book coming out in english?
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Sep 3, 2020 15:39
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Der Kyhe posted:Probably because ZA/UM is an Estonian game studio with a sales office in London. Now I wish I’d put fewer points in Encyclopedia
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Sep 3, 2020 15:43
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JustaDamnFool posted:Haven't the lead writers been living in England for a few years now? IIRC They were living in Brighton (UK Southeastcoast) for most of the development.
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Sep 3, 2020 15:48
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Maybe you guys are bored enough for another deliberately inflammatory hot take: 'Disco Elysium' Was Too Afraid of Sincerity to Be Revolutionary | VICE
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Sep 3, 2020 16:05
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Megazver posted:Maybe you guys are bored enough for another deliberately inflammatory hot take: Top of the last page and the entire discussion since.
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Sep 3, 2020 16:07
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Megazver posted:Maybe you guys are bored enough for another deliberately inflammatory hot take: Maybe you're bored enough to read the thread... ...NOT!!
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Sep 3, 2020 16:22
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showbiz_liz posted:Maybe you're bored enough to read the thread... You got me.  Missed it somehow! Sorry. Well, here's a decent video with reviews of every major CRPG (including DE) from the past decade, then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P4xJ34dmqQ
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Sep 3, 2020 16:27
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Thank you for all the good posts in response to that article! What a game this is.
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Sep 3, 2020 17:15
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Watching most game journalists take a swing at DE and whiffing because they're so far up their rear end has been really enlightening. Watching Giant Bomb's Quick Look of this led to me deciding not to renew my sub when it expires this year - they weren't even missing the point like Colin did up above, they just seemed incapable of even understanding what was in their hands. I hadn't played or seen anything of the game so far and even I could tell they were missing the point. All of these people begging for more mature discourse in games, more mature themes, more political and ideological critique, etc, and when a game finally comes around that does all that and more they can't see the forest for the trees, or load up on their preconceived notions and don't let the game take them anywhere they haven't already been (this is Colin's piece IMO) There was some indie game that had a who's who of woke game journalists (including some I really like, like Austin Walker) to submit writing for, and hoo boy was that enlightening. Can't remember the name of it now, though
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Sep 3, 2020 17:37
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rideANDxORdie posted:There was some indie game that had a who's who of woke game journalists (including some I really like, like Austin Walker) to submit writing for, and hoo boy was that enlightening. Can't remember the name of it now, though Where the Water Tastes Like Wine?
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Sep 3, 2020 17:54
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There was also the opposite case where one "indie rebel game journalist" gave Journey three star review calling it a short and boring walking simulator and was collectively called a loving tool by the entire Internet.
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Sep 3, 2020 18:05
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Hokkaido Anxiety posted:Where the Water Tastes Like Wine? That's the one. Wasn't terrible, but man did it feel disjointed. Too many cooks in the kitchen IMO
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Sep 3, 2020 18:08
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rideANDxORdie posted:Giant Bomb's Quick Look of this Just looked this up and wow that's rough. Clearly just an extremely rushed look at the game.
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Sep 3, 2020 18:41
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Hokkaido Anxiety posted:Where the Water Tastes Like Wine? Now, this looks like the epitome of humourless American sincerity in a game.
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Sep 3, 2020 18:50
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One thing I love about DE that I think doesn't get mentioned enough is that it delves into masculinity without starring a Tough Gamer Dad protagonist that seems to be all the rage these days (Joel from Last of Us, Kratos, etc)
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Sep 3, 2020 19:47
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rideANDxORdie posted:One thing I love about DE that I think doesn't get mentioned enough is that it delves into masculinity without starring a Tough Gamer Dad protagonist that seems to be all the rage these days (Joel from Last of Us, Kratos, etc) likewise, the homo-sexual underground journey is... just fantastic in that regard, in all aspects really. "he is a friend, but only on Sundays" is a well known story, especially for proletarian gays like the man in the balcony. It is sensible, clever and the humor plays it really well in that contrast (picking the best options to maximize Kim's reactions makes it amazing)   I really wanted some guuuuuuuuuuurl come on from one of them as my head was screaming that, especially with the thoughts commenting about the smoker's physique haha
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Sep 3, 2020 22:10
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dead gay comedy forums posted:likewise, the homo-sexual underground journey is... just fantastic in that regard, in all aspects really. "he is a friend, but only on Sundays" is a well known story, especially for proletarian gays like the man in the balcony. It is sensible, clever and the humor plays it really well in that contrast at the risk of emphasizing just how much of an oblivious dumbshit I am: I follow that Sunday Friend and the smoker are loving, but is “Sunday friend” a preexisting turn of phrase? is it like “friend of Dorothy” or “confirmed bachelor” or something?
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Sep 3, 2020 22:38
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Megazver posted:Maybe you guys are bored enough for another deliberately inflammatory hot take: I don't think it's deliberately inflammatory, i think it's just a little undercooked. e: like, i don't think he's stupid or trolling, he's just wrong sebmojo fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Sep 3, 2020 |
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Sep 3, 2020 22:55
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When will ZA/UM condemn the toxic disco bros
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Sep 3, 2020 22:57
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Au Revoir Shosanna posted:Just looked this up and wow that's rough. Clearly just an extremely rushed look at the game. No, I'll be fair about this - the person playing it is a big fan of conventional detective adventure games, like your Sherlocks Holme and your Nancys Drew. They went in without seriously expecting that their own skills might lie to them - not just in an "oh, how funny, this is obviously wrong" way, but also in a "wait, if I do this, it will be terrible, and make me a terrible person" way. I've seen people (not the Giant Bomb people) seriously post about running out of things to do in the game because they never took a stab at inspecting the body because they had an 8% chance of making it -- they thought they could boost their chances in advance, when most of the options for doing it are locked behind failing the roll not just once but multiple times. Ultimately it's not wrong to want to play a game where you don't even have the option to be exposed to terrible people or to be one yourself. It's not wrong to want to play a game where you don't have to interrogate the game's text to draw the line between truth and viewpoint, between flippancy and sincerity. And DE never comes out and says, in the game in big bold ink, that you shouldn't just listen to certain skills or say certain things but always consider what you're picking from the options, because Harry is really saying that and it can really affect people. It never comes out and says that failing white checks may hurt you a little, but won't redirect the game, and you may need to try and fail to find out what you need to do them better. Isn't it fair to say that there might not be a game quite like Disco Elysium, certainly not to the incredible extent that it came out as being? I think it's also fair to say, in that case, that people might not be equipped to evaluate it in a way that they've practiced doing to other video games.
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Sep 3, 2020 22:59
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The best review I've read of Disco Elysium was by Scott Benson (of Night in the Woods fame) in his Giant Bomb GOTY list from last year. He completely gets it in a way a lot of American left(ish) critics just seem to not. Admittedly that's a bit of a lovely privileging of MY read on the game over theirs, but sometimes you just have to call something a misread when you think it's a misread. The GB QL was legendarily bad. It was basically a freak storm wherein Abby (who is understandably pretty sensitive to Gamer Misogyny) accidentally specced into a high-phys lovely misogo-cop build, and the rest is history.
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Sep 3, 2020 23:00
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my favourite bob each way review is the RPS one where she said it was deeply flawed but didn't say how it was flawed (tbf she liked it a lot)
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Sep 3, 2020 23:06
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Yeah the GB disco elysium QL is not the only reason I'm out, more like the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't want to detail so I'll just say their coverage of a game actively pushed me away from a product I ended up loving, and while that's okay, I'm not comfortable paying for coverage like that
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Sep 3, 2020 23:47
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Lightningproof posted:The GB QL was legendarily bad. It was basically a freak storm wherein Abby (who is understandably pretty sensitive to Gamer Misogyny) accidentally specced into a high-phys lovely misogo-cop build, and the rest is history. lol, i need to watch this. giant bomb is not a place one goes for thoughtful analysis of the themes of a game.
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Sep 3, 2020 23:52
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It's funny that Baldur's Gate opened with that 'abyss stares into you' quote from Nietzsche but it was 20-ish years before DE finally put that into practice.
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Sep 3, 2020 23:57
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Megazver posted:Well, here's a decent video with reviews of every major CRPG (including DE) from the past decade, then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P4xJ34dmqQ yeah this is worth watching. This sucked me in so i went looking for more. It's nice to have a breakdown of the differences between them and now i'm playing Divinity Original Sin since i somehow have it already, and it's fully voiced.
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Sep 4, 2020 00:04
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Philman posted:lol, i need to watch this. I don't think they're incapable of better analysis I just think they rushed the quick look out the door without giving the game a proper chance. She even mentions that she hasn't even gotten the body out of the tree in her main playthrough yet so she's basically operating entirely on first impressions. also she's running a hilariously high electro chemistry build which lol
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Sep 4, 2020 00:07
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World War Mammories posted:at the risk of emphasizing just how much of an oblivious dumbshit I am: I follow that Sunday Friend and the smoker are loving, but is “Sunday friend” a preexisting turn of phrase? is it like “friend of Dorothy” or “confirmed bachelor” or something? I don't think it's pre-existing slang (although I might just be unfamiliar with it) but the implication from it is pretty clear - he's the guy that comes around once a week to get hosed, and that is as deep as their relationship goes, and if he were to see the smoker on the street he would pretend not to recognize him (presumably because the Sunday Friend is still in the closet because Moralism is still too conservative to accept that kind of thing openly). He's a friend, but only on Sundays.
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Sep 4, 2020 01:29
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lol, abby wasnt even reading it, and then she called it bad writing. at least alex was getting a laugh out of it.
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Sep 4, 2020 01:49
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:game is incredible, better than i had even expected (and i had expected a lot) Yeah lol it's a really deep cut for inspiration
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Sep 4, 2020 01:49
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World War Mammories posted:at the risk of emphasizing just how much of an oblivious dumbshit I am: I follow that Sunday Friend and the smoker are loving, but is “Sunday friend” a preexisting turn of phrase? is it like “friend of Dorothy” or “confirmed bachelor” or something? I would surmise as the term being both the equivalent of a "friend of Dorothy" in the game's world and also applicable to the all too common dynamic of wealthy closeted guy having a furtive relation with a younger, poorer but very much freer gay man, especially those with a more intellectual bent (which seems to be the case here). I don't know if there is a particular specific American slang for that, though. There more to it than just being a friend only on Sundays, though. An implication of such relationships is the element of convenience for the younger men, as those Sunday Friends tend to help financially in diverse matters, but isn't a "sugar daddy" type of deal because there is an affectionate bond there; which is why, imho, the game does this very well by making the man on the balcony being very discrete about him. He is a moralist bureaucrat shitbag - and ZA/UM goes hard on that as we've established previously - but still, he has someone who cares about him in the limitations established by their time and place in society. Although the text makes the smoker being acutely aware of their discrepancy and diminished as such ("he can go back to the Occident, to the wealth and opportunities any time he wants" iirc), the far greater tragedy lies with the Sunday Friend, who cannot pursue and enjoy a fruitful relationship with someone he truly desires to be with - and it is on him. Even if the younger man is wistful about the other, he is stronger of the two. And while this doesn't happen as much as it used to, it is still a rather frequent dynamic that happens in many countries in the West, afaik. It isn't a lengthy bit at all, but imho ZA/UM deserves kudos for doing that scene with care, nuance and sensibility.
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Sep 4, 2020 02:49
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dead gay comedy forums posted:I would surmise as the term being both the equivalent of a "friend of Dorothy" in the game's world and also applicable to the all too common dynamic of wealthy closeted guy having a furtive relation with a younger, poorer but very much freer gay man, especially those with a more intellectual bent (which seems to be the case here). I don't know if there is a particular specific American slang for that, though. I don't really have anything to add beyond that you hit the nail on the head and it's reflective of real-world history and cultural norms in the same way the rest of the game does but ends up with a very unique-feeling romance in fiction.
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Sep 4, 2020 04:04
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y'all are so good at thinking about this game and i appreciate you
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Sep 4, 2020 04:05
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Kaysette posted:y'all are so good at thinking about this game and i appreciate you  To add to the emptyquote - in all honesty, this thread is probably *the* best place online for in-depth DE discussion and insigths, imo. The effortposts and takes posted here are consistenly amazing and on-point, at least in my humble opinion - so thank you posters 
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Sep 4, 2020 04:21
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Sep 4, 2020 04:23
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I don't think it's pre-existing slang (although I might just be unfamiliar with it) but the implication from it is pretty clear - he's the guy that comes around once a week to get hosed, and that is as deep as their relationship goes, and if he were to see the smoker on the street he would pretend not to recognize him (presumably because the Sunday Friend is still in the closet because Moralism is still too conservative to accept that kind of thing openly). He's a friend, but only on Sundays. dead gay comedy forums posted:I would surmise as the term being both the equivalent of a "friend of Dorothy" in the game's world and also applicable to the all too common dynamic of wealthy closeted guy having a furtive relation with a younger, poorer but very much freer gay man, especially those with a more intellectual bent (which seems to be the case here). I don't know if there is a particular specific American slang for that, though. I like to think I had a bead on the unequal nature of the relationship, but these are great elaborations thereupon, thanks
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Sep 4, 2020 05:15
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IIRC, the protagonist is implied to be interested in the smoking man because he has a resemblance to his ex-wife. Funny thing is the thought doesn't seem to end with him outright going 'It's okay to be gay, maybe I'm at least a little bit gay too' but just to stop fussing about what's none of his business.
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Sep 4, 2020 06:18
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Ghost Leviathan posted:IIRC, the protagonist is implied to be interested in the smoking man because he has a resemblance to his ex-wife. This is true, although let’s not forget, there is also another man who smokes on a balcony in this game...
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Sep 4, 2020 09:58
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