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KaosMachina posted:Any hopes I had of a Cyborg Solo film being good died out long before now, so honestly this just seems like a win-win all around to me. He can make movies with John Boyega and Jordan Peele.
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Sep 5, 2020 02:39
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It's sort of darkly funny that Johns has pushed Cyborg for so long as a big, marquee character and he finally gets to see him in the Justice League, in a movie and is such a horrible gently caress-up and rear end in a top hat that the actor playing him wants to end his career.
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Sep 5, 2020 03:43
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Why are people trying to make Cyborg a thing? Not even Doom Patrol could make him interesting or compelling.
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Sep 5, 2020 10:28
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Alhazred posted:Why are people trying to make Cyborg a thing? Not even Doom Patrol could make him interesting or compelling. Geoff Johns loves him. That's why he got pushed into the JL and Martian Manhunter was pushed out.
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Sep 5, 2020 10:39
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Alhazred posted:Why are people trying to make Cyborg a thing? Not even Doom Patrol could make him interesting or compelling. I mean, he’s a fairly prominent black superhero in an industry (and especially at DC) that has historically not been great at representation, so I definitely get why.
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Sep 5, 2020 10:43
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I mean, he’s a fairly prominent black superhero in an industry (and especially at DC) that has historically not been great at representation, so I definitely get why. Any one of the electric powered black dudes that was invented to not have to pay royalties to the guy who invented the last black guy with electricity powers would have been better. Or you know, the first one. Or if it's for movies make John Stewart the original Green Lantern.
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Sep 5, 2020 10:51
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MoS had so much Superman is JESUS crap in it they should have cast a black dude to be Superman
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Sep 5, 2020 11:17
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Rhyno posted:MoS had so much Superman is JESUS crap in it they should have cast a black dude to be Superman So did Returns.
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Sep 5, 2020 11:19
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Skwirl posted:So did Returns. I like to imagine that Singer was running around yelling at Routh to keep doing the crucifiction pose constantly.
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Sep 5, 2020 11:25
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Black Superman though is one of those things that would be very hard to do well. Like, there's not much you'd have to change about Spider-Man if he was black, Batman couldn't be black when he was first created, but if he's in his mid twenties now he could absolutely have rich and respected parents that died sometime in the early 2000s. But Superman doesn't really work for that.
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Sep 5, 2020 11:29
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Rhyno posted:Geoff Johns loves him. That's why he got pushed into the JL and Martian Manhunter was pushed out. Well gently caress Johns. No wonder my favorite JL’er disappeared from the books.
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Sep 5, 2020 11:45
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Rhyno posted:Geoff Johns loves him. That's why he got pushed into the JL and Martian Manhunter was pushed out. Does he love him? He never seems to do anything with him. He just is around and is the tech/portal guy.
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Sep 5, 2020 11:46
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Lurdiak posted:Does he love him? He never seems to do anything with him. He just is around and is the tech/portal guy. He loves the original version so much he started making moves to restore him all the way back in OWAW.
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Sep 5, 2020 11:55
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Diversity is important, not having a black superhero on the team was a non-starter, and rightly so. But I also think there's a pretty interesting story to tell with Cyborg, about being differently abled and how to handle that, especially as a black person. We'll see how well that works out next year in the Snydercut, but Cyborg is not a bad character to include imo
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Sep 5, 2020 13:49
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The "Cyborg sucks" sentiment that always seems to come up around these conversations has never not weirded me out Maybe that's because the idea that there's something inherently wrong with a comic book character that prevents a good story being written about them really sticks in my craw
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Sep 5, 2020 13:52
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Blockhouse posted:The "Cyborg sucks" sentiment that always seems to come up around these conversations has never not weirded me out Cyborg sucked until I started watching Doom Patrol, now I like Cyborg, but only in that show.
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Sep 5, 2020 14:53
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cyborg's a black superhero with themes of disability, dehumanization and reducing black men to their physical prowess. he's also (thanks to teen titans 2004) one of the most beloved, accessible heroes DC's got—known by millions of black kids, including yours truly. this reminds me of when i heard somebody say "kamala khan has the same powers as mr. fantastic, so I don't get why she exists". cultural context is important, y'all
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Sep 5, 2020 15:19
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also, up until a few decades ago superheroes were mainly four-color one-dimensional violence clowns used to sell snack cakes and patriotism. the reason any of them are more or less "compelling", in your view, is likely due to you happening to read things that made them compelling. all supes are really just flexible ideas—only as good as the way they're presented.
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Sep 5, 2020 15:25
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I love Cyborg as a Titan but his inclusion on the JL has always felt shoe-horned. There was no natural growth into the role, he was just thrust in from Flashpoint on. But then, so was most of the things that spun out of Flashpoint.
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Sep 5, 2020 15:27
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i definitely get feeling like companies don't know what to do with characters, yeah.
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Sep 5, 2020 15:39
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McCloud posted:Diversity is important, not having a black superhero on the team was a non-starter, and rightly so. But I also think there's a pretty interesting story to tell with Cyborg, about being differently abled and how to handle that, especially as a black person. We'll see how well that works out next year in the Snydercut, but Cyborg is not a bad character to include imo You should check out Doom Patrol, it takes "Cyborg-as-disability-metaphor" to really interesting places.
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Sep 5, 2020 15:48
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Yeah, Cyborg in Doom Patrol has been one of his better versions to date. Really hoping DC doesn't gently caress up the Milestone relaunch (in the studios and on the page), or, knowing DC's track record, that they at least manage to get some 12-issue bangers out the gate before shooting themselves in the foot.
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Sep 5, 2020 16:22
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Cyborg is an absolutely fine concept for a character which often gets reduced to "We need a black superhero" which is genuinely lovely to him as a character because rather than focusing on him they just want to include him so the Justice League isn't a bunch of incredibly white people. It also ends up making him seem like a crappier character because he's included so halfheartedly he never really stands out.
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Sep 5, 2020 16:32
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Cyborg being on the team also goes all the way back to the later Super Friends and some other TV stuff from back in the day https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Victor_Stone_(Super_Friends)/Appearances
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Sep 5, 2020 16:40
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Rhyno posted:I love Cyborg as a Titan but his inclusion on the JL has always felt shoe-horned. There was no natural growth into the role, he was just thrust in from Flashpoint on. But then, so was most of the things that spun out of Flashpoint. They were teasing having Cyborg in the League at the beginning of Brad Meltzer’s JLA. Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman decide he should be offered a position on the team, and then it’s never followed up on. Cyborg is also part of DC’s problem with barely knowing what to do with the Teen Titan characters. That cartoon was so popular, but the best you’d get was maybe a Raven mini series or Starfire loving around with Jason Todd. Cyborg has all the potential in the world, but it’s only the Doom Patrol tv show that really tries to take a deep look at his character.
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Sep 5, 2020 16:42
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Open Marriage Night posted:They were teasing having Cyborg in the League at the beginning of Brad Meltzer’s JLA. Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman decide he should be offered a position on the team, and then it’s never followed up on. That was the same run that put Arsenal on the team instead of Green Arrow and then pushed him into an infatuation with Hawkgirl that also never went anywhere. TLDR: Brad Meltzer's JLA is absolute poo poo.
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Sep 5, 2020 16:46
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Space Fish posted:Yeah, Cyborg in Doom Patrol has been one of his better versions to date. DC already canned the new Hellblazer with issue 12. It's the single biggest selling book at one of my FLCSs and I'm pretty sure that it's doing good numbers everywhere. Whoever is running that company is an idiot.
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Sep 5, 2020 16:47
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Jedit posted:DC already canned the new Hellblazer with issue 12. It's the single biggest selling book at one of my FLCSs and I'm pretty sure that it's doing good numbers everywhere. Whoever is running that company is an idiot. Hellblazer outsells every other book at a physical store?
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Sep 5, 2020 16:49
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Rhyno posted:Hellblazer outsells every other book at a physical store? Around here it does, yes.
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Sep 5, 2020 16:50
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Jedit posted:Around here it does, yes. I mean, did the owner tell you this? Because that just sounds incredibly unlikely.
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Sep 5, 2020 16:53
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Si Spurrier moves numbers in Australia, brother
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Sep 5, 2020 16:55
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Wasn’t Cyborg’s tech in part based on experiments his parents were doing with Boom Tubes? I’m one of those people who was used to Cyborg leading the Titans and figured he’d always be there guiding other young heroes. I wish he felt less shoehorned into JL.
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Sep 5, 2020 17:18
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:Wasn’t Cyborg’s tech in part based on experiments his parents were doing with Boom Tubes? That's his New 52 origin, yeah. Prior to that he was just a 'regular' cyborg and part of his special skillset is that he was smart as gently caress. (Which is why in the cartoons he is Team Titan's tech guy, not just because he is a cyborg.) He was able to upgrade himself and part of what made him stand out was that he was basically doing the Spider-Man thing of customizing himself based on the needs of the sitaution. But of course Geoff Johns can't allow that so instead he's just got magic alien technology.
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Sep 5, 2020 17:26
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i feel so bad for anyone who was actually hype for the dc jl movie and then watched it lol. rip
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Sep 5, 2020 17:42
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ImpAtom posted:That's his New 52 origin, yeah. Prior to that he was just a 'regular' cyborg and part of his special skillset is that he was smart as gently caress. (Which is why in the cartoons he is Team Titan's tech guy, not just because he is a cyborg.) He was able to upgrade himself and part of what made him stand out was that he was basically doing the Spider-Man thing of customizing himself based on the needs of the sitaution. He got magic alien tech years prior to johns.
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Sep 5, 2020 17:44
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Rhyno posted:He got magic alien tech years prior to johns. Magic alien technology was not the center of his origin the way it has been in everything Johns pushed.
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Sep 5, 2020 17:54
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The last time Diamond was actually functional (back in March) where you could get a real physical comics sales chart, Hellblazer #5 came in as the 107th best-selling comic from Diamond, which put it ahead of several DC books, but well behind you know, over 100 other comics. In July, Hellblazer #8 was DC's self-distributed 35th best-selling direct market book, putting it ahead of Batman Beyond, Batman & the Outsiders, Hawkman, Teen Titans, Red Hood, Amethyst, Jimmy Olsen, Metal Men, Books of Magic, and Doom Patrol. All of those books are completed/canceled as well except Red Hood, and I guess Batman Beyond, but that might be ending with issue 50 in the December solicitations. Both of those books are down at roughly the level of Hellblazer after 40+ issues, as opposed to under ten though. And yeah, there has been power creep and weird alien/magic technology involved with Cyborg prior to Johns, but Johns is the one who substantially changed Cyborg's origin/backstory. Originally it was "Victor Stone is the super smart son of two super smart scientists whose bleeding edge experimentation grievously injures their son, who they rebuild with their own technology and then years Stone integrates other weird alien tech into it." Now it's "Victor Stone is a jock whose dad is a scientist, jock son gets blowed up by a Father Box and absorbs New God tech and then his dad calls in favors from a bunch of smarter scientists to build him the best and most expensivest cyborg body! And I guess he and his dad are smart too. And his mom's still dead and maybe was some sort of scientist too?"
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Sep 5, 2020 18:45
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Rhyno posted:I mean, did the owner tell you this? Because that just sounds incredibly unlikely. Yes, he told me this straight up. And while I know he's been pushing the book since launch, he didn't need to foist it on me because I already have it on my pull list.
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Sep 5, 2020 19:10
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sliami posted:also, up until a few decades ago superheroes were mainly four-color one-dimensional violence clowns used to sell snack cakes and patriotism. Okay, that's not even close to true.
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Sep 5, 2020 19:25
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sliami posted:i feel so bad for anyone who was actually hype for the dc jl movie and then watched it lol. rip According to Ray, the plan was to put race and disability on the forefront in JL. That obviously didn't survive the transition from Zack to Whedon. It's part of the reason I'm excited for the directors cut, all Cyborgs stuff that was cut out is gonna be back in. How Wonderful! posted:You should check out Doom Patrol, it takes "Cyborg-as-disability-metaphor" to really interesting places. It's on my List! I keep hearing good stuff about it
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Sep 5, 2020 19:35
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