Sept Chat: npc said to stux, "i know this is a wasteland but i didn't expect to find a wasteman

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Sept Chat: npc said to stux, "i know this is a wasteland but i didn't expect to find a wasteman

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Now that Bowsette is officially over, where will you be sending your horny energy? This poll is closed.
Melinda Rust (n�e Megamelons)	13	5.86%
Twitch streamers	9	4.05%
VTube animes	27	12.16%
Any of the other �ette monstrosities	10	4.50%
[Lie] I don�t get horny.	54	24.32%
Other (Bowsette)	93	41.89%
Now that I'm an IK, I can make my own option	13	5.86%
David Crossup	1	0.45%
Bob PSPGodenkirk	2	0.90%
Total:	222 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

CharlieFoxtrot: Mar 27, 2007; organize digital employees

OK I guess I don't care about side games, my key argument is "Everything in the so-called Metroidvania formula is contained in Metroid [main series sure] and the vania is redundant"

# ? Sep 6, 2020 17:54

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 20:35

homeless snail: Mar 14, 2007

lets hang out posted:

I see goons say metroid fusion isn't a metroidvania all the time

I'd be inclined to put it in the negative zone

# ? Sep 6, 2020 17:59

Stux: Nov 17, 2006

the vania isnt redundant because it was both metroid and sotn onward cv games that popularised the format and did it successfully. metroid already has all the features but i dont think the genre gets as much visibility or spreads as far without sotn etc.

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:01

Handsome Wife: Feb 17, 2001

Metroidvania is also more fun to say than Metroidlike.

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:11

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

Fusion haters are just scared of sa-x

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:14

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

Stux posted:

the vania isnt redundant because it was both metroid and sotn onward cv games that popularised the format and did it successfully. metroid already has all the features but i dont think the genre gets as much visibility or spreads as far without sotn etc.

Well metroid stopped being made for a thousand years after super

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:15

Barudak: May 7, 2007

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

OK I guess I don't care about side games, my key argument is "Everything in the so-called Metroidvania formula is contained in Metroid [main series sure] and the vania is redundant"

Thats fair-ish, given you don't need shops, npcs, useable items, equipment, leveling, etc.

However, I don't really like the Metroid games and do like Castlevania games because of the difference of their design in how those are expressed. I judge metroidvanias by where they fall on the metroid to castlevania continuum and the closer to Castlevania the better.

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:16

Khanstant: Apr 5, 2007

no offense but i just dont believe anybody actually played those first crappyvanias. i mean, sure, load the rom up in nesticle once or twice or if u got it from a garage sale or whatever as a kid, worth putting in but come on. those games suck to play, control bad, who cares what genre they are no genre wants them stinkin up the place

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:17

homeless snail: Mar 14, 2007

Khanstant posted:

no offense but i just dont believe anybody actually played those first crappyvanias. i mean, sure, load the rom up in nesticle once or twice or if u got it from a garage sale or whatever as a kid, worth putting in but come on. those games suck to play, control bad, who cares what genre they are no genre wants them stinkin up the place

2 sucks rear end, but 1 and 3, and castlevania adventure are good games. i dont know where youre drawing the line but if youre calling rondo a crappyvania then i'm going to have to call this post cringe, i'm sorry that's just the law

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:23

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

They probably dont like knock back into pits and zero air control but they are good if you accept that and the delayed attack speed

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:25

Zeether: Aug 26, 2011

Is it just me or does Codemasters suck at making games that aren't F1 or DIRT now? I got Toybox Turbos recently and it reminded me that they later made an ACTUAL Micro Machines game but it was a gigantic piece of poo poo that was mostly multiplayer reliant

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:30

John Murdoch: May 19, 2009; I can tune a fish.

Barudak posted:

However, I don't really like the Metroid games and do like Castlevania games because of the difference of their design in how those are expressed. I judge metroidvanias by where they fall on the metroid to castlevania continuum and the closer to Castlevania the better.

I am the exact opposite and regularly get annoyed because the overwhelming majority of metroidvanias take after Castlevania more than Metroid.

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:33

homeless snail: Mar 14, 2007

Zeether posted:

Is it just me or does Codemasters suck at making games that aren't F1 or DIRT now? I got Toybox Turbos recently and it reminded me that they later made an ACTUAL Micro Machines game but it was a gigantic piece of poo poo that was mostly multiplayer reliant

codemasters has been bleeding talent for years, in anything that isnt their big racing games. and I mean big racing games, like how they made the really good arcade racer onrush a couple years back and then laid off the entire team

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:34

Khanstant: Apr 5, 2007

Real hurthling! posted:

They probably dont like knock back into pits and zero air control but they are good if you accept that and the delayed attack speed

this is basically it. Blasphemous played fast and loose with endless death pits and I hated them there too

First Castlevania I bought for myself was one of the GBA or DS ones, that's when I was sold on the series. Supposedly SotN is better but there's no play station at my house

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:42

CharlieFoxtrot: Mar 27, 2007; organize digital employees

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOWUSsFar-s

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:43

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

Khanstant posted:

this is basically it. Blasphemous played fast and loose with endless death pits and I hated them there too

First Castlevania I bought for myself was one of the GBA or DS ones, that's when I was sold on the series. Supposedly SotN is better but there's no play station at my house

Yeah i thought blasphemous had a pretty frustrating design in a lot of places too

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:48

hatty: Feb 28, 2011; Pork Pro

Most Metroidvanias take inspiration from the Vania part. There aren�t too many Metroidlikes by comparison

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:49

Zeether: Aug 26, 2011

homeless snail posted:

codemasters has been bleeding talent for years, in anything that isnt their big racing games. and I mean big racing games, like how they made the really good arcade racer onrush a couple years back and then laid off the entire team

And that led to the PC port basically being canned as far as I can tell

No wonder GRID is rear end now

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:50

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

OK I guess I don't care about side games, my key argument is "Everything in the so-called Metroidvania formula is contained in Metroid [main series sure] and the vania is redundant"

"Metroidvania" and "Metroid-like" both take the same amount of time to say or type so its kinda irrelevant. Metroidvania is more fun to say and potentially more illustrative in case someone only knows one or the other, but you're not wrong.

If someone could come up with a better name we could all agree on we could stop calling them doom-clones and call them FPS but names are hard so metroidvania it is.

People just like saying metroidvania.

....

You know what would be baller? An official Metroidvania.

Castlevania 3055 : The bounty hunter known as Cyber-belmont is shot down by space pirates and crash lands on Planet Transyl IV

While trying to explore the terrain to find materials to repair her ship, she discovers the last dracula, a vicious parasitic alien life form which sucks energy from all species it encounters

# ? Sep 6, 2020 18:59

Healbot: Jul 7, 2006; very very very fucjable
very vywr very

Real hurthling! posted:

Yeah i thought blasphemous had a pretty frustrating design in a lot of places too

Spikes are the worst offenders in Blasphemous, a game where the sinner gets thrown half a room after getting hit.

# ? Sep 6, 2020 19:14

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

You're a metroidvania if:

-You have a connected world, rather than distinct levels
-There are a number of passageways in the world which can't be used until after obtaining an item elsewhere in the world
-Many or all of the items used to unlock passageways have other uses (i.e., they're powerups, not keys)
-The world is designed in such a way that the player is not shown where the locks and items are; exploration is required to find both the powerups and the places where you use them

Please post your favorite game which isn't generally thought of as a metroidvania but which technically fits the definitions

# ? Sep 6, 2020 19:23

Viewtiful Jew: Apr 21, 2007; Mench'n-a-go-go-baby!

Zaphod42 posted:

....

You know what would be baller? An official Metroidvania.

Castlevania 3055 : The bounty hunter known as Cyber-belmont is shot down by space pirates and crash lands on Planet Transyl IV

While trying to explore the terrain to find materials to repair her ship, she discovers the last dracula, a vicious parasitic alien life form which sucks energy from all species it encounters

MercurySteam would probably be the developers though.

# ? Sep 6, 2020 19:25

CharlieFoxtrot: Mar 27, 2007; organize digital employees

cheetah7071 posted:

You're a metroidvania if:

-You have a connected world, rather than distinct levels
-There are a number of passageways in the world which can't be used until after obtaining an item elsewhere in the world
-Many or all of the items used to unlock passageways have other uses (i.e., they're powerups, not keys)
-The world is designed in such a way that the player is not shown where the locks and items are; exploration is required to find both the powerups and the places where you use them

Please post your favorite game which isn't generally thought of as a metroidvania but which technically fits the definitions

The Witness

# ? Sep 6, 2020 19:26

Khanstant: Apr 5, 2007

banjo kazooie has distinct levels but also a connected world

# ? Sep 6, 2020 19:26

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

cheetah7071 posted:

You're a metroidvania if:

-You have a connected world, rather than distinct levels
-There are a number of passageways in the world which can't be used until after obtaining an item elsewhere in the world
-Many or all of the items used to unlock passageways have other uses (i.e., they're powerups, not keys)
-The world is designed in such a way that the player is not shown where the locks and items are; exploration is required to find both the powerups and the places where you use them

Please post your favorite game which isn't generally thought of as a metroidvania but which technically fits the definitions

Pokemon Red/Blue counts for all of those I think

Dark Souls and Bioshock both almost count but not quite :cheeky:

# ? Sep 6, 2020 19:29

Volte: Oct 4, 2004; woosh woosh

cheetah7071 posted:

You're a metroidvania if:

-You have a connected world, rather than distinct levels
-There are a number of passageways in the world which can't be used until after obtaining an item elsewhere in the world
-Many or all of the items used to unlock passageways have other uses (i.e., they're powerups, not keys)
-The world is designed in such a way that the player is not shown where the locks and items are; exploration is required to find both the powerups and the places where you use them

Please post your favorite game which isn't generally thought of as a metroidvania but which technically fits the definitions

Those are the aspects that come from Metroid, but the actual Metroidvanias (i.e. the Metroid-like Castlevanias) also have RPG elements that I think are equally important, like character stats and the ability to wear equipment to modify stats and grant powers.

# ? Sep 6, 2020 19:46

Hwurmp: May 20, 2005

cheetah7071 posted:

You're a metroidvania if:

-You have a connected world, rather than distinct levels
-There are a number of passageways in the world which can't be used until after obtaining an item elsewhere in the world
-Many or all of the items used to unlock passageways have other uses (i.e., they're powerups, not keys)
-The world is designed in such a way that the player is not shown where the locks and items are; exploration is required to find both the powerups and the places where you use them

Please post your favorite game which isn't generally thought of as a metroidvania but which technically fits the definitions

Sleeping Dogs

# ? Sep 6, 2020 19:48

Stux: Nov 17, 2006

Real hurthling! posted:

Yeah i thought blasphemous had a pretty frustrating design in a lot of places too

mad cos bad

hatty posted:

Most Metroidvanias take inspiration from the Vania part. There aren’t too many Metroidlikes by comparison

the castlevania games that give the vania part of metroidvania are metroidlikes. the vania part is mostly stuff stuck ontop of metroid style stuff.

also i dont think thats particularly true, like the big ones recently are stuff like hollow knight and ori which are very much more metroid than vania. but its kind of irrelevant, the genre name is because the two series both were important in creating the genre bounds and popularizing them and thats why its called what its called.

# ? Sep 6, 2020 19:51

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Volte posted:

Those are the aspects that come from Metroid, but the actual Metroidvanias (i.e. the Metroid-like Castlevanias) also have RPG elements that I think are equally important, like character stats and the ability to wear equipment to modify stats and grant powers.

Super Metroid had suit upgrades. That and weapon unlocks (and movement abilities that get you to new areas) seem sufficient to me.

Hollow Knight doesn't have stat numbers, and its definitely a metroidvania.

Having stats isn't integral to metroidvania, its integral to RPG.

# ? Sep 6, 2020 19:51

Stux: Nov 17, 2006

now onto my next argument: dark souls 1 is a metroidvania game and so soulslike is a subgenre of metroidvanias

# ? Sep 6, 2020 19:54

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

The origin of the word was to describe the Metroid-like Castlevanias, it's true. So SotN was a metroid 'vania, as opposed to a classic 'vania

That isn't really what the word means anymore and it isn't how I meant it when I laid out that definition. People these days use it to describe the genre that both Metroid and that era of Castlevania belong to

# ? Sep 6, 2020 19:56

Red Alert 2 Yuris Revenge: May 8, 2006; "My brain is amazing! It's full of wrinkles, and... Uh... Wait... What am I trying to say?"

resident evil is metroidvania, etc

# ? Sep 6, 2020 19:57

Captain Cappy: Aug 7, 2008

cheetah7071 posted:

You're a metroidvania if:

-You have a connected world, rather than distinct levels
-There are a number of passageways in the world which can't be used until after obtaining an item elsewhere in the world
-Many or all of the items used to unlock passageways have other uses (i.e., they're powerups, not keys)
-The world is designed in such a way that the player is not shown where the locks and items are; exploration is required to find both the powerups and the places where you use them

Please post your favorite game which isn't generally thought of as a metroidvania but which technically fits the definitions

Atelier *

# ? Sep 6, 2020 20:06

Volte: Oct 4, 2004; woosh woosh

Super Mario 64 is a Metroidvania because of the caps

# ? Sep 6, 2020 20:08

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Relax Or DIE posted:

resident evil is metroidvania, etc

The keys are keys, which cheetah's post clearly called out as being unacceptable.

No movement abilities in RE unfortunately.

Volte posted:

Super Mario 64 is a Metroidvania because of the caps

I considered saying that myself. It doesn't quite count as a connected world though, clear hub and separate levels. But all these things get kinda grey.

# ? Sep 6, 2020 20:09

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

Captain Cappy posted:

Atelier *

hm I don't think that's quite right,

# ? Sep 6, 2020 20:09

Chev: Jul 19, 2010; Switchblade Switcharoo

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

OK I guess I don't care about side games, my key argument is "Everything in the so-called Metroidvania formula is contained in Metroid [main series sure] and the vania is redundant"

As mentioned in previous chat threads, historically the Metroidvania genre didn't even include Metroid in the first place, it's a late addition after years of broadening the definition.

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

The Witness

No items or upgrades! (although it does have the best variation on the idea of the inverted castle, including other not-metroidvania Frog Fractions)

# ? Sep 6, 2020 20:11

Volte: Oct 4, 2004; woosh woosh

Zaphod42 posted:

I considered saying that myself. It doesn't quite count as a connected world though, clear hub and separate levels. But all these things get kinda grey.

I think non-linearity and the ability to revisit areas is more important than a truly continuous world. I would definitely call Arkham Asylum a Metroidvania (by the modern definition at least) and it has separate "levels" but you can go back and forth between them any time.

# ? Sep 6, 2020 20:13

CharlieFoxtrot: Mar 27, 2007; organize digital employees

Chev posted:

No items or upgrades! (although it does have the best variation on the idea of the inverted castle, including other not-metroidvania Frog Fractions)

In the realm of forms all "items" are merely conceptual objects instantiated as a given set of principles. It makes no difference whether they are encoded in the rules of the game or they are encoded in my mind. I upgrade my perception rather than ticking off a variable in the game code, it works the same way

# ? Sep 6, 2020 20:16

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 20:35

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

I intentionally left the wording on connected world a bit fuzzy. Like, Super Metroid sort of has levels, depending on how you define levels.

# ? Sep 6, 2020 20:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Sept Chat: npc said to stux, "i know this is a wasteland but i didn't expect to find a wasteman

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