|
kill him Forcing him to pay the dishonored to loot the battle and recover their gear is probably the most practical option, but from what I've seen of kyros his general response to problems is to either murder the poo poo out of anyone in the vicinity or to threaten to do so if he doesn't get what he wants. Tldr: he's a nuisance operating without permits at the armies expense. 
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 04:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 18:56 |
|
|
I don't know, this line:quote:The Overlord regulates all trade. If you lack the proper permits, your goods are forfeit. seems to establish both what crime is being committed and also the proper punishment? But none of our options quite cover that. Option three seems closest but there is a weird emphasis on 'leave and never return' that seems kind of unnecessary. But be that as it may, I think option three is closest to 'the law' that's been established to us.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 04:12
|
|
|
2. Make him pay up, might as well have another "registered" merchant around.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 04:24
|
|
|
TheGreatEvilKing posted:Decisions Lie Before Us!
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 04:29
|
|
|
sunken fleet posted:I don't know, this line: But if we kill him and take
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 06:04
|
|
|
the problem with the scarlet chorus is that they're probably the most anachronistic part of the game, and for all the talk of higher thoughts re: evil the team came up through D+D games and it shows. the Disfavored are Lawful Evil. the Scarlet Chorus are Chaotic Evil. as Chaotic Evil has never really made a ton of sense, so too do the Chorus. how do they have a never-ending resupply of garbage soldiers? don't worry about it! the chaotic hordes ALWAYS have a bunch of expendable cannon fodder, therefore so do they. somehow the indiscriminately slaughtering masses manage to be occasionally human-positive in their rampages, and avoid any of the problems that have come with slave soldiers courtesy of their Archon's general coolness. you dig a little deeper, though, and you find something a little neater. why DOES chaotic evil always have more dudes? and the answer there is that beyond Lawful and Chaotic Evil, there are the two entities a modern technocratic society fears most. the disfavored are easy; they're a bunch of strictly disciplined soldiers with a snappy logo, a cult of personality around their leader, and a pathological hatred of anyone who's not them. the Scarlet Chorus, and their anachronistic ability to grow in size as they plunder, are The Masses Are Coming For You. stinking, furious, ragged peasants, the base id of humanity unleashed, ruled over by the vicious and the mad, here to take your poo poo and turn you into one of them and that's if you're one of the lucky ones. meet the two faces of the boogeyman. the only people they play worse with than you are each other.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 06:27
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the disfavored are easy; they're a bunch of strictly disciplined soldiers with a snappy logo, a cult of personality around their leader, and a pathological hatred of anyone who's not them. the Scarlet Chorus, and their anachronistic ability to grow in size as they plunder, are The Masses Are Coming For You. stinking, furious, ragged peasants, the base id of humanity unleashed, ruled over by the vicious and the mad, here to take your poo poo and turn you into one of them and that's if you're one of the lucky ones. so basically the Disfavoured are D&D and the Scarlet Chorus is C-SPAM
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 08:23
|
|
|
Execution. I'm looking forward to seeing how the thread chooses to play out this rebellion, as I made choices that were very much along the lines of bronze age warlords dealing with people being, well, traitorous oathbreakers.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 08:46
|
|
|
TheGreatEvilKing posted:
This actually seems to be a good point about how the interaction of the regeneration of disfavored and brain injuries probably leads to some uh, damaged goods. Saros fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Sep 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 09:42
|
|
: "One last thing... be careful around these Disfavored types. They take their work seriously, and most have suffered too many blows to the head."
|
Even with the boosted text size, the screenshots can be a little hard to read. Maybe make the actual screenshots themselves bigger? I zoomed in the size to about 150% in my browser and that looked pretty good. This will also make the actual on-screen events clearer. As for how to deal with this guy, my vote is going to be guided by a single thing, which is what I believe to be the true and underlying purpose Kyros' law. Which is "keep Kyros in charge by any means necessary," which is really what the laws of all dictatorial types come down to. It's why the people are offered a little slack but not much, retribution is swift and brutal, and the armies are allowed to be at each others throats all the time. So with that in mind, what would help keep Kyros in charge here? With that in mind, I am thinking he gets to stay but he pays. Kyros is not currently in charge, and the Disfavored are the elite fighters, the tip of the spear Kyros will thrust into the heart of the Tiers. (Okay, I know that they're racist morons, but they're well equipped and trained racist morons.) Letting this guy live and trade will help build up the strength of the Disfavored... But he has to pay a price. You don't get to violate the law of Kyros without consequence. That consequence need not be death, but there needs to be something that stings.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 09:57
|
|
|
Stay but he pays, this man is an entrepreneur, he is invigorating the economy by recycling old goods.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 10:12
|
|
|
Pretty sure that stealing from the legions is punishable by death, but I am not sure that "salvaging" from the dead counts. Thus I vote for confiscation, because that is the punishment for trading without permit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 10:19
|
|
|
I forget if it's ever brought up in game, but there isn't actually a codified Kyros's Law anywhere, right? The law is more along the lines of Common Law, where maybe someone wrote something down or proclaimed something, but it's the precedent and case law built up around the code that ultimately determines the final interpretation. And then you have Tunon and the Fatebinders, who are all essentially individual Supreme Courts running around and making rulings that may or may not obey precedent, or may establish new precedent as they feel. So since we're not actually bound by any specific interpretations, I would argue that the ideal ruling in any situation is whatever furthers Kyros's goals. Since Kyros has the stated goal of bringing this area to heel, then we should permit the merchant to trade so long as he pays the Disfavored for the privilege. His salvaging will allow crucial equipment to be brought back to the soldiers who need it and leave the soldiers free to focus on soldiering. The rule about permits doesn't make a lot of sense in an active war zone that's about to be under a universal death sentence and the rule should be considered suspended. Or you can presume that the Fatebinder providing permission is the equivalent of a retroactive trading permit duly applied for. The Disfavored won't like it but they're also a bunch of losers who have been doing everything wrong up until now, so their concerns can be disregarded. Also are you showing us all the treasure and hidden stuff on the maps? Because I didn't see you grab the small camp with some treasure and a lore check right next to the game start. If you're just not showing everything for readability then forget I said anything.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 10:52
|
|
|
Confiscate/Leave as a gift for Graven Ashe. The dead are not, strictly speaking, part of Kyros's legions. While they could be considered as such, that is up to the individual fatebinder to decide. (Or to be accurate, to give the Fatebinder the room to interpret the law either as warranting so-and-so's death or a lesser punishment of their devising.) Now, while the direct wielders of the 'scavenged' equipment are deceased, the soldiers were members of the disfavored; any equipment used by the disfavored can be said to belong to the disfavored et large. Thus the vendor is attempting to sell the property of the disfavored to the disfavored. Were the option possible, I would fine Hagnon for this offense by having the Disfavored confiscate the weapons, armor, and any trinkets that could've belonged to them, regardless of their origin; any remaining non-scavenged merchandise may be sold as normal. Further, Hagnon is providing a service by reclaiming equipment from the fallen. If Hagnon still wishes to continue salvaging after this, he may do so so long as he also recovers the bodies for burial. With the condition that Hagnon does not attempt to resell the equipment to the Disfavored, but instead receives a commission per recovered body plus a fraction of any equipments value. Should Hagnon be found attempting to sell Disfavored equipment to the Scarlet Chorus or other parties, his life is forfeit to the Disfavored's judgment. Alas, we must work with the options we have. Confiscate it is.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 11:03
|
|
|
Xarn posted:Pretty sure that stealing from the legions is punishable by death, but I am not sure that "salvaging" from the dead counts. Thus I vote for confiscation, because that is the punishment for trading without permit. If it was punishable to salvage Verse and Cleopatra would be in deep poo poo, along with the entire Chorus. The merchant should be fined for operating without proper permits, but there is no basis for a capital punishment for simply outsourcing an act the Kyros's forces depend on to sustain themselves.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 12:27
|
|
|
Let him live we can give grace in exchange for maintaining Kyros' economy and preventing waste of precious materials by this moronic disfavored.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 13:52
|
|
|
Servetus posted:If it was punishable to salvage Verse and Cleopatra would be in deep poo poo, along with the entire Chorus. The merchant should be fined for operating without proper permits, but there is no basis for a capital punishment for simply outsourcing an act the Kyros's forces depend on to sustain themselves. Salvaging from your own dead is obviously different than salvaging from someone else's dead. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 15:25
|
|
|
Xarn posted:Salvaging from your own dead is obviously different than salvaging from someone else's dead.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 15:53
|
|
|
"Stop! You have violated the Law! Pay the
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 16:17
|
|
|
Servetus posted:If it was punishable to salvage Verse and Cleopatra would be in deep poo poo, along with the entire Chorus. The merchant should be fined for operating without proper permits, but there is no basis for a capital punishment for simply outsourcing an act the Kyros's forces depend on to sustain themselves. Cleo is a fatebinder and Verse is part of her retinue, which makes them both officers of the Court. Fine him.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2020 16:19
|
|
|
Stay and pay- in the end, the Laws of Kyros are whatever we think are best.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2020 00:20
|
|
|
So if the Disfavored are Lawful and the Chorus are Chaotic, is the PC Neutral Evil?
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2020 02:32
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:So if the Disfavored are Lawful and the Chorus are Chaotic, is the PC Neutral Evil? Tunan is lawful evil. The Disfavored are more neutral evil
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2020 05:14
|
|
|
Both the Disfavored and the Chorus have their own rules that they will happily ignore whenever it's convenient or they want to follow their prejudices, in the same way they'll ignore Kyros'.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2020 05:30
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:So if the Disfavored are Lawful and the Chorus are Chaotic, is the PC Neutral Evil? Neutral Evil is a role very, very ably filled by the two archons of Tunon's court. the PC is someone trying to function in an environment where these fuckers are your options as far as power goes, and trying to find the least destructive option to them personally. as you may have noticed, there is not an exception for you in the Edict: your destruction is incredibly explicitly on the menu, at all times, from all parties, including your boss.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2020 06:29
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:Neutral Evil is a role very, very ably filled by the two archons of Tunon's court. the PC is someone trying to function in an environment where these fuckers are your options as far as power goes, and trying to find the least destructive option to them personally. Eh we got this, a full rear end week to get poo poo right. Time is wierd and hard to grasp in this game tho, going from camp to camp can take like a full rear end week too. Shoot.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2020 07:28
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:Neutral Evil is a role very, very ably filled by the two archons of Tunon's court. the PC is someone trying to function in an environment where these fuckers are your options as far as power goes, and trying to find the least destructive option to them personally. Although notably there is a very big legal loophole in the edict that can actually be exploited by the PC.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2020 07:38
|
|
|
You can note at the top of the screen in screenshots that the date is given. 'Kyros Day' is the last day of any given month. Kyros' magic has sealed the valley, but the Edict itself hasn't actually been proclaimed yet.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2020 07:48
|
|
|
Oh hey, that does remind me. I assume "here's what happens if you gently caress around and don't fill the Edict" will get shown, but will it get shown in the next update, or a post-game "here's all the stuff where you deliberately gently caress around and do stupid poo poo" update?
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2020 08:10
|
|
|
bewilderment posted:You can note at the top of the screen in screenshots that the date is given. 'Kyros Day' is the last day of any given month. Which is another fun little loophole.  Also, if we are doing the DnD alignment chart, I would argue Tunon is just plain lawful neutral. Laws above all, he doesn't seek to cause harm or good, just follow the laws as well as he can. He is, after all, the Archon of Law. This also provides an interesting loophole, as he is loyal to Kyros's law, not to Kyros
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2020 08:17
|
|
|
I had no idea until replaying this game again that there were more than three paths you could take to completion.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2020 09:07
|
|
|
Which one was the one you didn't find at first? For the longest time, I didn't figure out that anarchist and rebels are two separate paths
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2020 10:23
|
|
|
Xarn posted:Which one was the one you didn't find at first? For the longest time, I didn't figure out that anarchist and rebels are two separate paths The first one.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2020 16:13
|
|
|
Regarding different paths: I would imagine that most people miss the anarchist path. The rebel path is offered to you if you're just trying to be a good person and not murder everybody, whereas the anarchist/go-it-alone path requires you to explicitly reject everyone's attempts to work with you.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2020 16:46
|
|
|
AFAIK you can miss the ally with the rebels path very early. On the other hand, the gently caress everyone, anarchy path seemed to be signposted a lot later on as well. This made me think that they are the same, but I was playing a Kyros loyalist anyway
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2020 21:11
|
|
|
Let's go with Option 3 - Take his stuff, let him leave He already broke the permit law, so if he sold anything, even if it was legitimate, he would have violated trade law and his goods would be forfeit. While he did technically loot Kyros' stuff with the intent to make a profit off of it, he makes a valid point in that the extraordinarily valuable iron was just left lying around though where it would have been ruined, therefore he also kinda saved Kyros' stuff. I'd argue the two sort of balance out in that case. He did a bad thing, but it is balanced by the good. It was very nice of him to take time out of his day to recover Kyros' stuff for them. So let the man live and maybe get his paperwork in order and he might someday provide a useful service for Kyros.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2020 01:51
|
|
|
welcome to the first one of the fun choices. letter of the law, 2 and 4 are both justifiable. in a hypothetical world where we're sincerely dedicated to the cause of Kyros, an argument can be made for #2, as a way for our judgement to exploit the grey area in the law for the greater effectiveness of the Disfavored and/or the Empire. we are also completely within our rights to go with #4. #3 combines not killing him with not reimbursing him, and as such constitutes Double Crime, the worst form of crime short of treason. the only one that's right out is #1. however, as rpg protagonists, a higher awareness than mere law informs our actions, and that awareness tells us "don't shut down shopkeepers that might have cool magic items later." also gently caress the Disfavored, they're stupid assholes and them being sad is its own reward. let him off with a warning. Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Sep 9, 2020 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2020 06:49
|
|
|
As someone who's played this before (and is playing again because of this LP), I feel I must recuse myself from all votes on matters of law... but I wanted to say I'm glad to see so many people thinking seriously about this. Keep it up!
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2020 14:39
|
|
|
If everyone involved in this was a mindless thug it would fall apart completely, so we keep things going by seeking reasonable ways to view the Law. Pay the fine and be on your way, citizen.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2020 15:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 18:56 |
|
|
Stay but pay. I'm glad to see you're doing an LP again and I like your summaries and how they've become kind of like your trademark style, but I'm also pleased that you're playing a game where I don't have to rely on those summaries to understand just what in the hell is going on. (Please don't stop summarizing--they're very amusing.) I like how there's a general feeling that everything has consequences, usually negative ones, but the game isn't beating us over the head with it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2020 19:14
|
|
