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https://twitter.com/elhotzo/status/1302690733275652098?s=21
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Sep 7, 2020 20:08
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The Berliner Senat used the Corona downtime to create a number of so called Pop-up-Radwege, which basically meant that they took a lot of space away from cars and reserved that space for cycling. Of course this was too much progress for AfD and FDP so they sued the Senat and won. I used these new Radwege daily, it was absolute heaven lol. https://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/article230351726/Pop-up-Radwege-Berlin-Gericht-Eilverfahren-Corona-Pandemie-Gefaehrdung.html
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Sep 7, 2020 20:16
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Wengy I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you - you and I - were scammed. And I'm saying, maybe we should stop giving the scammers money? Although I still consider this "my salary is as low as that of a mere supermarket cashier" talk to be in extremely bad taste. KonvexKonkav posted:Honestly, the main problem (besides lack of funding) is that there are too many befristete Verträge and not enough unbefristete or at least ones with reasonable durations, especially at the postdoc+ level. That way, more people who had no chance of getting a permanent position would leave sooner and the rest would have some kind of job security. It would also make working in academia more attractive for people whose partner/family is understandably not 100% on baord with them moving/having to look for a new position every few years or months or for people who have a life in general. know people who have been at university for x years and have had 2x Arbeitsverträge, which is frankly insane (this is also in maths btw). My mom was on contracts with limited duration until retirement while doing mostly teaching. Einbauschrank posted:The system feeds on desperate people willing to do lovely jobs to stay float. In Germany the ÖD (even outside of unis) is the main culprit for befristete Verträge and also used to be pretty reliant on Scheinselbständigkeit to - like real Beamten - avoid paying Sozialversicherungsbeiträge. Zwille posted:All pre, post and docs I know (linguistics) have been miserable piles of secrets and academia sounds like an ivory hamsterrad at best from what i gather, so: I agree pidan posted:yeah same, don't go into academia, don't bait people into going into academia, don't pretend like academia isn't a scam. (Non-STEM) academia is a system for turning bright young people into depressives wasting their talents.
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Sep 7, 2020 20:24
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KonvexKonkav posted:Honestly, the main problem (besides lack of funding) is that there are too many befristete Verträge and not enough unbefristete or at least ones with reasonable durations, especially at the postdoc+ level. That way, more people who had no chance of getting a permanent position would leave sooner and the rest would have some kind of job security. It would also make working in academia more attractive for people whose partner/family is understandably not 100% on baord with them moving/having to look for a new position every few years or months or for people who have a life in general. know people who have been at university for x years and have had 2x Arbeitsverträge, which is frankly insane (this is also in maths btw). My mom was on contracts with limited duration until retirement while doing mostly teaching. I'm not sure what I did to you for turning passive-aggressive on me as we seem to agree on the premise. I don't care who turns out a leistungsträger or not as long as someone is able to support himself he can do whatever s/he wants. University (I'm speaking from my experiences in the brotlose Künste of humanities) prevents young and not so bright people from turning into self-sufficient adults by luring them into the deadend of Prestigeprekariat.It's a gigantic black hole that sucks out years or even decades out of people's lifetime with what the late Graeber called bullshit jobs. And if there's one thing that really hurts once you get into your 30ies it's the tempoverlust in your 20ies. It'll haunt you with zineszinseffekt.
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Sep 7, 2020 20:26
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lol, Cingulate tell us what you do for a living. It's something marketing related, right? If so, I have some really, really bad news about the 'good for society' and 'useful' parts
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Sep 7, 2020 20:29
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GABA ghoul posted:lol, Cingulate tell us what you do for a living. It's something marketing related, right? If so, I have some really, really bad news about the 'good for society' and 'useful' parts
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Sep 7, 2020 20:43
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Cingulate posted:I don't understand what the suggested solution is here. Is it just to create more academic jobs? Which jobs, Studienräte? What are they supposed to do? And where should the funding come from. I thought it was pretty clear that it's not necessarily about more jobs, it's about better conditions for doing the work that already exists at universities. Do you seriously think it's cool and good that many contracts in academia have a duration of 1 or 2 semesters written on them?
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Sep 7, 2020 20:53
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How do people still manage to fall into the Cingulate trap, it's incredible. Congratulations, now you're part of a discussion about how we can get young people to serve the needs of old rich white men in a more effective way. You can't win that kind of argument, every exit of this labyrinth of bullshit is inhuman and protofascist. And then he'll disappear again and in a few months it's "Hey guys I am very liberal but have you noticed how the reactionaries are actually right about everything?" time again. Can someone please post some chilis or something
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Sep 7, 2020 20:55
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Einbauschrank posted:I'm not sure what I did to you for turning passive-aggressive on me as we seem to agree on the premise. I didn't mean to come of as a dick to you personally, I just hate these arguments along the lines of "if we don't keep things miserable for academics, they will become lazy and complacent" which are ironically often touted by people who are or were in those conditions (like you and cingulate, but my mom is like that too ironically, and she never got a permanent position).
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Sep 7, 2020 21:01
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Cingulate posted:Data stuff. Yeah, but it's marketing related, right? Like, you are the guy that finds out that there is a correlation between seeing butts and buying yoghurt so they put an image of a peach on the youghurt that looks like a butt, right?
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Sep 7, 2020 21:01
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KonvexKonkav posted:I didn't mean to come of as a dick to you personally, I just hate these arguments along the lines of "if we don't keep things miserable for academics, they will become lazy and complacent" which are ironically often touted by people who are or were in those conditions (like you and cingulate, but my mom is like that too ironically, and she never got a permanent position). I don’t get where I (or Cingulate or anyone else) have argued in favour of lovely conditions at university. I‘ve observed/experienced lovely conditions, I definitely don‘t endorse them.
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Sep 7, 2020 21:11
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over the weekend it looked like germany might be turning the curve, but it looks more like settling in at a higher level again  and this week ferien end in bavaria?  
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Sep 7, 2020 21:21
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Mithaldu posted:over the weekend it looked like germany might be turning the curve, but it looks more like settling in at a higher level again
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Sep 7, 2020 21:28
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aphid_licker posted:It's kinda fun how umfahren and umfahren are pronounced unterschiedlich aphid_licker posted:Oh man check out this thread about an old DaF grammar book: https://twitter.com/mirandajewess/status/1302930890213994496 I enjoyed both these posts
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Sep 7, 2020 21:50
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Cingulate posted:It’s intrinsic. The problem is there is no high status well
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Sep 7, 2020 22:48
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Cingulate posted:I don't understand what the suggested solution is here. Is it just to create more academic jobs? Which jobs, Studienräte? What are they supposed to do? And where should the funding come from? quote:(Non-STEM) academia is a system for turning bright young people into depressives wasting their talents.
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Sep 7, 2020 22:56
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suck my woke dick posted:Literally just mandate a Dauerstellenquote so universities are forced to turn every 3 postdoc positions into 2 akademischer Oberrat positions. suck my woke dick posted:Reduce reliance on grants for hiring people. Just have a chunk of Grundförderung for feste Stellen that people can apply for. Grants should be for stuff like travel and equipment expenses or advancing national flagship projects, not for the bulk of non professorial Personalkosten. So you'd say most post-graduate academic jobs have to be permanent. Who's paying for these? Not the grants. You'd have to raise taxes, so now your Kassiererin is paying for Wengy to complain about not being paid enough or me to learn Machine Learning even more than she already does. And in turn where does the grant money go? I assume non-Uni research institutes, with the same dynamics settling in after a while. As a non-Uni research institute is the only place where you can launch a superstar career on the back of a bunch of fixed-term idealists, that's where all the academic superstars who end up getting professorships will come from within 5 years. And they'll keep their strong ties to these institutes ... Granted, the same dynamic could emerge in my "just defund" scenario, but at least then you'd have our Kassiererin pay fewer taxes, not more taxes.
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Sep 7, 2020 23:12
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Instead of having the Kassiererin pay just significantly raise taxes for data scientists and the like and have them pay for it Bing bang done
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Sep 8, 2020 00:10
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Sereri posted:I enjoyed both these posts 
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Sep 8, 2020 00:52
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suck my woke dick posted:Reduce reliance on grants for hiring people. Just have a chunk of Grundförderung for feste Stellen that people can apply for. Grants should be for stuff like travel and equipment expenses or advancing national flagship projects, not for the bulk of non professorial Personalkosten. Can confirm. The way science is funded is hot bullshit. Cingulate posted:I don't know how that would play out. Let me sketch out one scenario I can imagine. You're imagination seems very keen to vote for Margaret Thatcher.
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Sep 8, 2020 03:22
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Ah yes, defunding higher education so the supermarket cashier saves 100 Swiss Francs in taxes every year, sounds like a great bargain. Also, Cingulate is - bewusst oder nicht - reproducing all the bullshit neoliberal arguments about why the culture of fear and uncertainty in academia is actually cool and good even as he professes to denounce said culture. You can’t make this poo poo up.
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Sep 8, 2020 06:15
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I'd suggest raising capital gains taxes to fund higher education. Maybe we'd even have enough money to fund some additional linguistics professorships.
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Sep 8, 2020 07:17
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cebrail posted:How do people still manage to fall into the Cingulate trap, it's incredible. Congratulations, now you're part of a discussion about how we can get young people to serve the needs of old rich white men in a more effective way. You can't win that kind of argument, every exit of this labyrinth of bullshit is inhuman and protofascist. And then he'll disappear again and in a few months it's "Hey guys I am very liberal but have you noticed how the reactionaries are actually right about everything?" time again. No chili pics since I don't have any ripe ones for harvesting today, but I am totally looking for some hot sauce recipes if any of the fellow chilihavers have any. I now have a fat sack of chilis in my freezer, more than enough at this point to keep me supplied with hot sauce for the next year.
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Sep 8, 2020 07:45
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Wengy posted:Ah yes, defunding higher education so the supermarket cashier saves 100 Swiss Francs in taxes every year, sounds like a great bargain Not STEM. Just humanities. I’ve met like ... two?.. people who had interesting things to say about books, out of hundreds of students. And these two didn’t end up staying in academia either. Edit: maybe STEM should also be defunded, I don't know, I haven't experienced it. Cingulate fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Sep 8, 2020 |
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Sep 8, 2020 08:50
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Pretty sure the coming Great Depression 2.0 austerity hell years will give Western governments the chance to finally reduce the humanities back to an ornamental feigenblatt, with the few remaining Lehrstühle limited to abstract critiques of capitalism from the Elfenbeinturm or even willing contributions legitimizing the glorious teleologic way of NUMBER and GROWTH.
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Sep 8, 2020 09:34
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Why doesn't the state fund my essays on anarchism with a competitive Beamten salary??? Why don't they tax corporations to pay me for explaining why capitalism is bad???
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Sep 8, 2020 09:38
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I looked up those two people who said interesting things about books. One owns a bookstore - actually just took it over in January, so had all of 2 months to sell books before COVID happened. The other works as a journalist, she's doing fairly well even. On the other hand, I knew numerous people who were writing interesting books. Novels. They've all been forced to work in media agencies and the like, presumably coming up with new ways to make bread or maybe CDOs sound appealing. How about : a blanket defunding of all academic humanities, and the saved money goes into funding the arts? Literally nobody needs Germanisten, Medienwissenschaftler, Theaterwissenschaftler. But books, people like books! Not that I'd have a good idea of how to fund the arts. pidan posted:Why doesn't the state fund my essays on anarchism with a competitive Beamten salary??? Why don't they tax corporations to pay me for explaining why capitalism is bad???
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Sep 8, 2020 09:40
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Dunno man, governments defunding all internal ways of questioning their governing ideologies and forcing the training of critical thought into hobby niches after the daily round of capitalist exploitation sounds...problematic.
SavageGentleman fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Sep 8, 2020 |
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Sep 8, 2020 09:57
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defund cingulate imo
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Sep 8, 2020 10:04
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From all I can find humanities makes up about 10% of science and education funding, which in itself makes up about 3% of the BIP. It's a drop in the bucket. It's a fraction of a Hauptstadtflughafen. It's something a society affords itself to have a healthy spread of voices and ideas.
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Sep 8, 2020 10:18
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Most of the arguments here - and IRL too, I have those discussions even with a lot of my STEM peers - are missing an obvious point: a lot of the discourse (on either side!) is rooted firmly in the neoliberal/capitalist idea that the only possible incentives are monetary. Of course, Cingulate et al. build on this by saying that negative reinforcement is better, because it saves money. This is a hosed up basis to begin with, but it also ignores a very obvious truth: people who attempt an academic career, or even start studying any sort of "useless" subject, are not stupid. Most of them are aware on some level that the system is stacked against them, they have little chance of success, they might not get a high paying job or whatever. The neoliberal philosophy is again at play when you think "oh, we just need to make academia 20% shittier, THEN the tipping point will finally be reached and those dumbasses stop supporting a corrupt system". It, as always in these arguments, assumes a rational actor solely acting on monetary motivation (or, simpler put, "everyone is maximally greedy"). A clear end goal of this philosophy, therefore, is to quash any form of idealism, passion or altruism as early and thoroughly as possible. It's a deeply cynical and inhumane position to have. You can only really have it if you have already convinced yourself that there isn't any inherent value in higher education, in the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake, and I don't see much value in arguing against that; what you can do, however, and what I'm doing here, is pointing out how disgusting it is. What you, Cingulate, and many other people ultimately want is a university system that produces maximally efficient workers for the least amount of investment possible. The clear assumption is that you only need a select few elite researchers/teachers that actually do work at the university itself, those are the only ones that deserve funding, and the rest should only use university as a stepping stone to kickstart their industry career. Everything else is superfluous and needs to be cut away mercilessly. Of course, this is reductionist nonsense. You need a veritable army of researchers - in every subject, leave me alone with that "oh but STEM is ~useful~, I'll gracefully exempt them" poo poo - to achieve any kind of advancement in a field. People who have no idea what they're talking about, and a frightening amount who should, believe in just supporting a dubious class of "elite scientists" who, by virtue of being the smartest and best will solve all of the world's problems, and obviously any money spent on all those other losers is wasted. This is not how science works, and I very deliberately include social sciences here. We need people who are able to just fart around and research pet projects because you never know what might be useful in 10 or even 50 years. There should be a way higher budget for research on any level, for any field, because this is what drives progress, not subsidies for car companies or army budgets or whatever else you could cut instead. Scientists, currently, spend over half their time not doing science because they constantly have to write grants, apply for another 1-year-contract, or are in therapy because this hosed-up system burns them out. Give more people permanent positions, make it possible to have an actual career in science, create university jobs that can focus on either teaching or research instead of forcing profs that hate teaching to hold garbage lectures, and so on. Or you will see an unsustainable system built on idealism crash before long, but that cannot be your end goal. STEM or not.
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Sep 8, 2020 10:36
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This whole discussion has convinced me that we should have some sort of UBI, so that people who want to spend their life writing essays (or give the cruel university system a try) can do so without Existenzangst. It has not convinced me that the state should have any interest in raising taxes specifically so that Lehrerkinder can get a nice salary for navel gazing. Personally I love learning, I actually did study Theaterwissenschaft, but objectively it's not the kind of thing a lot of tax money should be spent on, sorry.
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Sep 8, 2020 11:10
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Cingulate having a full blow meltdown into boomerism as soon as he hit a high paying job is the least surprising thing in the universe
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Sep 8, 2020 11:22
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Simon all of the motives you ascribe to me are insultingly wrong. I'm honestly pissed off at what you wrote, to the extent that you're straw manning me.pidan posted:This whole discussion has convinced me that we should have some sort of UBI, so that people who want to spend their life writing essays (or give the cruel university system a try) can do so without Existenzangst. Funnel it into public libraries, alternative museums, small theatre groups. Museums and theatres are great! I've never been to a bad one! Funnel it into local arts stipends to be administered by the municipalities. And all the free time kids and teens and young adults would have, they could form punk bands, read books, take psychedelic substances instead. Maybe even ... work? If they absolutely have to live in that nice apartment in Berlin or Munich, instead of some cowshed in Sachsen. Just not ...this. GABA ghoul posted:Cingulate having a full blow meltdown into boomerism as soon as he hit a high paying job is the least surprising thing in the universe 
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Sep 8, 2020 11:23
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Simply Simon posted:Most of the arguments here - and IRL too, I have those discussions even with a lot of my STEM peers - are missing an obvious point: a lot of the discourse (on either side!) is rooted firmly in the neoliberal/capitalist idea that the only possible incentives are monetary. Of course, Cingulate et al. build on this by saying that negative reinforcement is better, because it saves money. I‘d really interested to know where you (and Konkav) read from anyone itt „We have to worsen the conditions.“ The whole exploitation is based on non-monetary rewards, mainly idealism, hope and prestige. For many PhD students 1800€ netto is more than enough when they are 25 as they‘ve lived on 800-1000€ as students. They don‘t mind working 40h a week instead of the 20h they are being paid because they are part of the inner circle. They don‘t mind losing life time because they are still young. They don’t mind 2 year contracts because 2 years seem long when you’ve only spent 5 years at uni and they never had an unbefristete Anstellung before. Also, alumni of humanities have a rockier start than most as they have no Berufsausbildung. They could apply anywhere and nowhere. The only thing they know is uni (or their nebenjobs). Entrance salaries are pretty low for the humanities, though after a few years on the job they climb to normal levels. So the direct comparison between Unistelle and the grind in the freie Wirtschaft seems not too unfavorable at this point. The main culprit isn’t everybody’s favourite bogeyman “neoliberalism”, but, and this is conjecture on my part after working with the ÖD in other fields, it’s rather Mittelqualitäten and their Verwendungszweck. It‘s difficult as hell to get an expanded Stellenplan, so befristete Projektstellen are the answer. Also, as the Verwaltung is filled with old farts and fartesses who rose to Erfahrungsstufe 5 or 6 on their butt cheeks, the administration can be a real money sink without showing much increase in productivity. The decision makers, i.e. profs, would rather have access to 5-10 eager PhD students they can use as their personal assistants than one or two verbeamtete Studienräte who stopped giving a poo poo 20 years ago and won‘t answer mails on a Saturday evening. Also, the Bildungsexpansion has created tons of alumni who cannot find a job in their niche. It‘s not sensible to create Studienräte in such numbers as to ensure no Orchideenfächler gets left behind and has to dip his toe in the cold waters of the non-ÖD Arbeitsmarkt. I‘ve got Byzantinistik on my resume and I don‘t think there‘s that much demand for my leet Byzantinistik skills tbh and I never felt entitled to a Byzantinistik related job only because I had the privilege to study something I was interested in in the first place. I guess in STEM the number of PhD students is limited by access to labs etc? This might be some kind if natural limit that the humanities lack.
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Sep 8, 2020 11:32
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Einbauschrank posted:
Yes, the neoliberal reforms that replaced all permanent positions with ritual combat for Drittmittel have nothing at all to do with the lack of permanent positions.
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Sep 8, 2020 11:46
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As a Doktorand at a Geisteswissenschaft, I'm just really glad we have Cingulate back here.
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Sep 8, 2020 11:48
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genericnick posted:ritual combat for Drittmittel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0bClUp9I6w#t=15s
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Sep 8, 2020 11:57
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Accurate depiction of that time Wengy and I battled for that W1 (2 Jahre, Verlängerung auf 4 nach positiver Zwischenevaluation, danach rituelle Verspeisung der Überreste durch Den Markt) in Bumfuckigton, Sachsen.
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Sep 8, 2020 12:16
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Cingulate posted:Simon all of the motives you ascribe to me are insultingly wrong. I'm honestly pissed off at what you wrote, to the extent that you're straw manning me.
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Sep 8, 2020 12:18
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