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Until and unless the probations start, posters here are going to continue believing that they couldn't possibly be the problem. We know this because it keeps happening. e: Depressing page snipe.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:13
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Infinite Karma posted:They are printing plenty of creatures of relevant types, but I have yet to see a good enough payoff card that cares about party members/full parties. Archpriest of Iona and Coveted Prize seem like the strongest two payoffs. A blue/white deck splashing black could plausibly fill the party on turn three. The big question is how much friction there'll be from other decks - if cheap removal is widely played, keeping the party full will be almost impossible. It could be strong against ramp, though, with strong attackers and the ability to absorb most sweepers using Linvala.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:15
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Lone Goat posted:A constructed strategy of "I need to get four creatures in play and THEN something good is going to happen" is just begging to get demolished by sweepers. edit: ^^^ if I were to pick cards that might be workable, those two are okay, Malakir Blood-Priest is low-stakes with good payoff, and Zagras, Thief of Heartbeats would be a pretty broken T4 drop on the back of two other party members. We've only seen one mythic "party matters" card though, so I'm sure there will be a stronger handful that get spoiled later. Infinite Karma fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Sep 8, 2020 |
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Sep 8, 2020 21:15
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fadam posted:Seems like a cop-out answer. Actually you're right. It's not fair for me to obliquely suggest that some posts are unacceptable without identifying those posts. But I also didn't feel like any of the recent posts were immediately probatable - just, there's a gray area and this thread steps into that area a lot. Corbeau posted:Until and unless the probations start, posters here are going to continue believing that they couldn't possibly be the problem. That's fair, maybe. I've had good success in a couple of other threads when I've stepped in and said "hey maybe don't be dicks so much" and I'm sort of hoping that happens here too. As always, you can directly report a post that breaks the rules. I can't see those reports but the mods ping me if a thread is generating reports. My problem with this particular thread is that it moves too fast, if I take a couple days off (like I often do on the weekends) I come back with 300+ posts to get through. But I've also had people suggest to me that this thread is too nasty and that pushes people away and that's more of a general thing than specific to one bad poster or one bad post. Anyway I appreciate the feedback and I'll give this some more thought.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:17
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If I may post a derail: to the guy several pages back who asked why they haven’t made a card that says “cards can’t be exiled” - They actually tried a “cannot be exiled or bounced keyword in shadows over innistrad, but it caused too many rules issues. The most obvious example is what happens if a 1/1 that can’t be exiled is on the battlefield with a Rest In Peace and something giving all creatures -1/-1. I know as written a card that said “cards cannot be exiled” would turn off all cards with madness, what all else would it ruin?
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Sep 8, 2020 21:30
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Is there a rule thing that gets in the way of a card saying something like (phrased properly) "you may choose permanents an opponent control for spells and effects that require you to sacrifice"?
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Sep 8, 2020 21:33
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dangerburrd posted:If I may post a derail: to the guy several pages back who asked why they haven’t made a card that says “cards can’t be exiled” - I wonder if a card templated like Sigarda, Host of Herons, "spells and abilities opponents control can't cause you to exile spells or permanents, or return them to your hand." would cause rules issues.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:44
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fadam posted:Is there a rule thing that gets in the way of a card saying something like (phrased properly) "you may choose permanents an opponent control for spells and effects that require you to sacrifice"? I could see it done in a way where a card takes control of an opponent's permanent but it loses all abilities and can't be used other than sacrificing it to pay costs. A variation on pacify/prison in a cultist or vampire themed set.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:47
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fadam posted:Is there a rule thing that gets in the way of a card saying something like (phrased properly) "you may choose permanents an opponent control for spells and effects that require you to sacrifice"? The rule on saccing specifies it has to be a permanent you control, but I don't see any reason a card couldn't override that, other than being horribly broken as a static effect.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:50
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Mashing together the wording for Unpredictable Cyclone and Mythos of Snapdax, it would probably be worded, "If a spell or ability would cause an opponent to sacrifice one or more permanents, you choose which permanents are sacrificed instead."
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Sep 8, 2020 21:51
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wouldn't "choose a permanent. Its controller sacrifices it" work just fine?
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Sep 8, 2020 21:53
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I think we’re more looking for a “If a creature would be exiled from the battlefield, it’s controller may instead move them to the graveyard” type of thing for exile
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Sep 8, 2020 21:56
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Leperflesh posted:That's fair, maybe. I've had good success in a couple of other threads when I've stepped in and said "hey maybe don't be dicks so much" and I'm sort of hoping that happens here too. For what it's worth, I appreciate that you're trying to ease into things rather than power tripping, but this thread is historically unresponsive to soft touches.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:57
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I think for the sacrifice thing, they mean "Your opponent hits you with Torment of Hailfire, you start saccing their stuff instead of your own" type deals.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:58
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Chamale posted:I'd love to hear about the decks you guys are planning to build in the new Standard. Is anyone else working on a Party deck and have some insights for me? With Rakdos Sac rotating out, will big creature decks become more viable? Will mono-red be just as strong without Runaway Steamkin? I've been trying to make various party decks work, with the payoffs that don't require a full party to be very strong, but I don't think it can get there without more party typed cards and the full set of pathways. Archpriest of Ionia, Malakir Bloodpriest, Ardent Electromancer, and Zagras are all good aggressive Mardu payoffs but don't work great together yet, Spoils of Adventure is a good slow Azorious payoff. It feels bad to need to take turn 1 off because of mana/lacking good creatures of the type, when you're trying to count to 3 as quickly as possible without opponents being able to efficiently respond. There is potentially something cute with Ardent Electromancer and Escape Protocol, but Drannith Healer is the only card with cycling that provides a type.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:59
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BioThermo posted:Mashing together the wording for Unpredictable Cyclone and Mythos of Snapdax, it would probably be worded, "If a spell or ability would cause an opponent to sacrifice one or more permanents, you choose which permanents are sacrificed instead." Also, there is a partial exile protection card : Kaya's ghostform, which turns exile into blink. Might be a nice upside of a protection interrupt.
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Sep 8, 2020 22:01
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Sep 8, 2020 22:07
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dangerburrd posted:If I may post a derail: to the guy several pages back who asked why they haven’t made a card that says “cards can’t be exiled” - The way to fix this is a trigger imo. "Whenever ~ enters the graveyard or exile from the battlefield, you may return it to the battlefield," or some variant therof.
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Sep 8, 2020 22:07
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Leperflesh posted:As always, you can directly report a post that breaks the rules. I can't see those reports but the mods ping me if a thread is generating reports. My problem with this particular thread is that it moves too fast, if I take a couple days off (like I often do on the weekends) I come back with 300+ posts to get through. But I've also had people suggest to me that this thread is too nasty and that pushes people away and that's more of a general thing than specific to one bad poster or one bad post. 300 posts or 300 reported posts? Because if this thread is generating 300 reported posts and yet not meriting any actual probes maybe it's time to take the button away from whoever is mashing it on every single post.
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Sep 8, 2020 22:13
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serefin99 posted:I think for the sacrifice thing, they mean "Your opponent hits you with Torment of Hailfire, you start saccing their stuff instead of your own" type deals. Yeah, exactly.
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Sep 8, 2020 22:13
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Chamale posted:Archpriest of Iona and Coveted Prize seem like the strongest two payoffs. A blue/white deck splashing black could plausibly fill the party on turn three. The big question is how much friction there'll be from other decks - if cheap removal is widely played, keeping the party full will be almost impossible. It could be strong against ramp, though, with strong attackers and the ability to absorb most sweepers using Linvala. Archpriest of Iona is specifically the "party" card I expect to see constructed play where a deck is playing enough good cards around it that support it enough to where it is more than a 1/2 for 1, kind of like Toolcraft Exemplar in Mardu Vehicles. e: Without a doubt the biggest issue with lovely posts/posters in this thread is when people are posting about posting or off topic. People discussing whether cards are good or not especially in spoiler season hasn't really caused any big problems I can remember. Marketing New Brain fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Sep 8, 2020 |
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Sep 8, 2020 22:18
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"If you would sacrifice a permanent, you may choose a permanent of the same type controlled by an opponent. If you do, that opponent sacrifices it instead." Like that?
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Sep 8, 2020 22:19
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wizzardstaff posted:"If you would sacrifice a permanent, you may choose a permanent of the same type controlled by an opponent. If you do, that opponent sacrifices it instead." Like that? Yeah. It's the kind of effect that they would only ever put on some super expensive EDH meme, but I was just wondering if there's anything in the rules that stops it from working.
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Sep 8, 2020 22:21
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fadam posted:Yeah. It's the kind of effect that they would only ever put on some super expensive EDH meme, but I was just wondering if there's anything in the rules that stops it from working. I think my replacement effect would keep your stuff from being sacrificed but I don't think it would count for things like Fling. I'm no judge but my gut says that anything that tries to quantify a value from the sacrificed creature ends up as 0 regardless of what your opponent sacrificed, as well as anything that asks "if you did" to see if you actually sacced anything. So it has value but it's not quite the 1:1 effect you're looking for. Also it would be hard to make it reproduce the sacrifice exactly....my text would work for "sacrifice a land" but not "sacrifice a creature with CMC less than 3". edit: it seems like the kind of thing they might just print on an un-card because the intent is quite clear even if you have to jump through a bunch of rules contortions to make it work. But it also seems like a pretty un-fun punishing effect which they try to avoid in those sets. wizzardstaff fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Sep 8, 2020 |
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Sep 8, 2020 22:25
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I like this design a lot. Artifacts that change depending on who is using them is a cool area to explore.
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Sep 8, 2020 22:26
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣 they make the card that *exiles* Time Raveler , the Uro in play, and the Uro in the graveyard, all at the same time, at once, but apparently it needed to give blowjobs and improve credit scores too!! 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣 i thought it would cost 3B and even then it was overcosted.
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Sep 8, 2020 22:30
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I wonder if all these full party cards are an ascend situation. People wrote off getting ten permanents in to play when it turned out to be pretty easy. I think getting a full party will be a fair bit harder, but not so difficult you should write it off, in limited and constructed. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Sep 8, 2020 22:36
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:I wonder if all these full party cards are an ascend situation. People wrote off getting ten permanents in to play when it turned out to be pretty easy. I think getting a full party will be a fair bit harder, but not so difficult you should write it off, in limited and constructed. Maybe I'm wrong. Was there ever really an 'Ascend' deck tho, or was it just the occasional card with Ascend making its way into good lists? I suspect the latter is what is going to happen with Party.
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Sep 8, 2020 22:38
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Not a chance. The boxes are too expensive for that. The normal versions from the common slot will be a buck or two, the non-foil topper (that you get two of, per $325 box remember) will be $500 for a set of twelve, and I think at foil will be $750. At least at say, 30 days after release. Holding myself accountable here, a nonfoil set is $320 and a foil set is $370. I'll blame it on more people willing to shell out for the vip packs than I anticipated heh.
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Sep 8, 2020 22:41
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fadam posted:lol I think TKoS is a crybaby and half the time they post in this thread it's complaining about the game or the players or the posters in this thread, but I don't think anything they've posted deserves moderation, and none of their posts really match what Leperflesh was talking about. he is the one that reports everything ITT. but for real mr mod guy, let us just post. it's contained in here and we might call each other stupid about card evaluations but it's not like this thread spills out and and carries to other forums or we are like hardcore slurring and slandering each other. hell this thread doesn't even get 1% as bad on a forum that still has FYAD/BYOB 80s James Hetfield fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Sep 8, 2020 |
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Sep 8, 2020 22:52
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Bust Rodd posted:I think we’re more looking for a “If a creature would be exiled from the battlefield, it’s controller may instead move them to the graveyard” type of thing for exile Kinoros, Puppy of Athreos {1}{W}{B} Legendary Creature - Dog Vigilance, menace, lifelink Creature cards in exile can't enter the battlefield. Players can't cast spells from exile. 3/3
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Sep 8, 2020 22:55
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Lone Goat posted:300 posts or 300 reported posts? OH my god no, just 300 posts for me to read. If there were even 20 reports a week from this thread they'd probably just gas it. The whole of trad games generates only a handful of reports a week, that's why we only have an IK right now. We're a Good Subforum.
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Sep 8, 2020 22:57
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Leperflesh posted:OH my god no, just 300 posts for me to read. If there were even 20 reports a week from this thread they'd probably just gas it. just wait until my posting crystal is done charging
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Sep 8, 2020 23:15
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fadam posted:Was there ever really an 'Ascend' deck tho, or was it just the occasional card with Ascend making its way into good lists? I suspect the latter is what is going to happen with Party. There was a mono white aggro deck in Standard that relied pretty heavily on Ascend and put up decent results for a while.
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Sep 8, 2020 23:21
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Party seems like one of those mechanics that makes for really cool limited play and does literally nothing in constructed. I hope I'm wrong but like, having 4 creatures of 4 different specific types is a big ask FWIW they clearly know that since a few cards have all 4 types but still, seems like it will never come together
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Sep 8, 2020 23:23
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Chamale posted:I'd love to hear about the decks you guys are planning to build in the new Standard. Is anyone else working on a Party deck and have some insights for me? With Rakdos Sac rotating out, will big creature decks become more viable? Will mono-red be just as strong without Runaway Steamkin?
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Sep 8, 2020 23:29
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Mat Cauthon posted:There was a mono white aggro deck in Standard that relied pretty heavily on Ascend and put up decent results for a while. Wasn't that more about skymarcher was a good aggro card on its own? I dont think it even played the ascend pump spell after kaladesh rotated but could be wrong about it.
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Sep 8, 2020 23:29
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Corbeau posted:Until and unless the probations start, posters here are going to continue believing that they couldn't possibly be the problem. Pretty much, consider giving the 6 most frequent posters in this thread a periodic 12 hour maybe 
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Sep 8, 2020 23:44
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Bugsy posted:Wasn't that more about skymarcher was a good aggro card on its own? I dont think it even played the ascend pump spell after kaladesh rotated but could be wrong about it. Didn't Radiant Destiny see some play?
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Sep 8, 2020 23:48
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mandatory lesbian posted:Party seems like one of those mechanics that makes for really cool limited play and does literally nothing in constructed. I hope I'm wrong but like, having 4 creatures of 4 different specific types is a big ask I'm getting the impression that the rogue/warrior/wizard/cleric types are more commonly paired with another type than they appear by themselves. So you can have a vampire rogue, a vampire warrior, and a vampire cleric in your vampire party deck and you can still do all your vampire poo poo as well as constructing around maybe having 2 or 3 vamps in your party. Doesn't mean this idea is gonna work, but I think it's not intended that you have to handle four distinct creature types in constructed just to have a full party.
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Sep 8, 2020 23:50
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