Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Mandibular Fiasco
Oct 14, 2012

Purgatory Glory posted:

You're quality if life skyrockets when your rich boomer parents die.

Perhaps, but I love my parents and my kids love their grandparents. I want them around and in my life. I hate the fact that our culture has devolved to the point where one of the few ways thought to even the playing field between generations is to get an inheritance.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005
Well, I'm officially a homeowner, the bubble can feel free to burst now.

Bi-la kaifa
Feb 4, 2011

Space maggots.

I think we root for the bubble now that we're part of the problem

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

This is the best place on earth and they aren't making more land. Get in now or be condemned to be a rentailer dalit or what ever CI used to say.

Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

"That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."




odiv posted:

How's the fire situation there these days?

I imagine the FIRE situation is pretty hot too, despite the fires.

Sassafras
Dec 24, 2004

by Athanatos
I was under the impression that the banks were looking at extending terms rather than doing this but hey, now we get to see the 50-60% of people who report that they couldn't afford an extra 200/mo start to dance!

https://twitter.com/JaneMoneypenny/status/1303451085697355778?s=19

(Although depending on how much was owed, maybe that is just the extra interest on an extended term)

Sassafras fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Sep 10, 2020

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


It shouldn't come as a surprise that you're expected to amortize the interest over that period. It was very well publicised.

half cocaine
Jul 22, 2019


:laugh: $10 more will send a family into debtors prison thanks trudeau

apatheticman
May 13, 2003

Wedge Regret

qhat posted:

It shouldn't come as a surprise that you're expected to amortize the interest over that period. It was very well publicised.

I mean when you market as "Helping out" and "relief" there is some expectation of actual sacrifice not just LOL gonna charge u later.

I can forgive people for not paying attention to the 3rd paragraph of every ad or new story being like "this is essentially useless"

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Expecting a bank to sacrifice on your behalf is the first catastrophic mistake there

RBC
Nov 23, 2007

IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

Sassafras posted:

I was under the impression that the banks were looking at extending terms rather than doing this but hey, now we get to see the 50-60% of people who report that they couldn't afford an extra 200/mo start to dance!

https://twitter.com/JaneMoneypenny/status/1303451085697355778?s=19

(Although depending on how much was owed, maybe that is just the extra interest on an extended term)

lmao

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008
The Prime Minister of Canada coming to rescue someone who's fallen behind on their mortgage sounds like something out of a south park episode.

Purgatory Glory
Feb 20, 2005
Sell the house, while you're still above water.

Hubbert
Mar 25, 2007

At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

Purgatory Glory posted:

Sell the house, while you're still above water.

but my investment!!!!

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

half cocaine posted:

:laugh: $10 more will send a family into debtors prison thanks trudeau

It's 210 more per month. That seems like a lot to me.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

mila kunis posted:

It's 210 more per month. That seems like a lot to me.

My landlord was doing this to everyone in the building every year for years and Horgan still dragged his feet closing that loophole. No matter what a home owner is whining about, renters always have it so much worse but no one gives a gently caress about them.

Seat Safety Switch
May 27, 2008

MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.

Pillbug
How much interest are you walking around with if just six months of deferral turns into $210 more monthly for the rest of your term?

This is going to bug me for the rest of the day. It must be either a super young mortgage or there’s something else I’m missing.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Did they say it’s for the rest of the term, or just until the deferral is caught up?

RBC
Nov 23, 2007

IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

Seat Safety Switch posted:

How much interest are you walking around with if just six months of deferral turns into $210 more monthly for the rest of your term?

This is going to bug me for the rest of the day. It must be either a super young mortgage or there’s something else I’m missing.

it's must be a massive mortgage at high interest

Defenistrator
Mar 27, 2007
Ask me about my burritos

RBC posted:

it's must be a massive mortgage at high interest

Its probably a fresh mortgage with a large bulk. A 600k mortgage that's less than 2 years old would probably see this increase

sleep with the vicious
Apr 2, 2010
Observations on Canadian financial situations:

I've been watching lots of the NBA and NHL playoffs on Sportsnet and TSN. Lots of sub-prime mortgage/lending (cash-money, capital direct) commercials, more than in the past I think. Certainly presented very positively. But then these have been around for a while, I'm sure regionally there are tons of small ones during local broadcasts.

But at the same time, I know 5 couples who bought houses in the last month. None of them are stable dual-income and they all explicitly will talk about problems at work. One is also buying a Tesla SUV because "it's time to upgrade". Calgary's oil economy has pretty much entirely collapsed but it hasn't had any effect on house prices or overall rent. Rental availability has gone up but prices never really dropped. I do know multiple people with condos who bought in the last 3-5 years who can't sell now because they'd be too underwater.

I've posted a few times in this thread recently that I'm likely moving to Toronto for work at some point - covid has delayed but not stopped the plan - and I've been monitoring Toronto rentals. There's an unbelievable amount of lovely condos for rent. Again in the 8+ months I've been watching, prices haven't budged. A lovely rental house (main floor) or townhome still barely comes on market, and they're ungodly expensive (over 3.5K+) when it does happen.

To the thread title: I'm doing some business with Hootsuite, for a really basic business process they should have had in place 7+ years ago especially when they thought they could go public, and they're being hilariously unreasonable because there's not a single experienced person there.

I think like the posters who bought houses in the last couple of weeks, I'm resigned to this being unchanged. Not a single semi-mainstream Canadian figure (politician, business, columnist) even pretends to give lip-service, and the Canadian public certainly doesn't. My career trajectory would be much better in Toronto long-term so it's still probably worth moving for at least a try, but drat it is going to suck spending that much.

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

The only thing that I can see changing things in the short term is if there is no extension of the mortgage payment deferrals, and people who lost their jobs now have to start making higher mortgage payments in October with their nonexistent income.

half cocaine
Jul 22, 2019


There will be an extension of mortgage deferrals because my equity depends on it.

Wake up sheeple

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Personally I never plan to buy. If at some point in the future it makes financial sense, or I can do it without a mortgage, I'll do it. Else, gently caress it, renting is working fine for me, I'm still saving good money and gross rental yield is less than 4% in the major cities. I don't really have any incentive to own and I'm cool with that.

tagesschau
Sep 1, 2006

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
THE SPEECH SUPPRESSOR


Remember: it's "antisemitic" to protest genocide as long as the targets are brown.

sleep with the vicious posted:

I think like the posters who bought houses in the last couple of weeks, I'm resigned to this being unchanged. Not a single semi-mainstream Canadian figure (politician, business, columnist) even pretends to give lip-service, and the Canadian public certainly doesn't.

It can always get to a point where it can't remain unchanged, and government intervention ultimately won't be able to stop a correction.

RBC
Nov 23, 2007

IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888
i would be fine with renting forever if landlords werent universal scum

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

Big takeaway from this garbage op-ed is: I sure hope Josh Gordon has tenure and/or don't get a poli sci degree at SFU.

quote:

The ‘supply crisis’ in Canada’s housing market isn’t backed up by the evidence

If you follow the housing debates in Toronto and Vancouver, you’ll have undoubtedly heard the claim that the affordability challenges facing both cities are the result of supply problems. Common complaints include a lack of new housing, burdensome regulation and flawed zoning.
This “supply narrative” has been endlessly repeated. There’s only one problem: there’s no good evidence for it.

Consider the following pieces of inconvenient evidence. First, there have been no major changes to the regulatory framework around supply in either city since the early 2010s. Yet benchmark house prices in both cities have risen between 75 per cent (Vancouver) and 115 per cent (Toronto) since 2010. If there has been no significant regulatory change on the supply side, then this suggests that price appreciation reflects changes on the demand side of the equation.

Second, rates of housing construction have remained very strong for several years. In fact, in Vancouver there were more housing completions from 2015 to 2020, in the midst of the housing crisis, than there were in any five-year period before that. In Toronto, the rate of housing completions in the same recent period was second only, for recent decades, to the pace set between 2000 and 2004.

This broad pattern applies to rental construction too. For example, Vancouver saw more rental completions in the five years from 2015 to 2020 than in the previous 15 years before that combined; Toronto, meanwhile, saw the fastest pace of rental construction since the early 1990s.

Rather than weak supply, then, the issue has been intense demand pressures, including cheap credit, foreign ownership, speculation and high rental demand emanating from a previously strong labour market.

Third, sharp increases in housing prices have happened in many cities surrounding Toronto and Vancouver, even though there are far fewer regulatory and geographic supply constraints in those areas. This suggests that housing prices can rise sharply in the face of strong demand pressures, regardless of the regulations in place.

Fourth is the question of zoning. A common claim by so-called YIMBY (“yes in my back yard”) activists is that single-detached zoning is a central cause of housing unaffordability, since it constrains the land that can be developed and thereby drives up land and housing prices. However, there is no clear relationship between the prevalence of single-detached zoning in Canada and the level of affordability in a city. If anything, Canadian cities with the highest share of single-detached houses have the least intense affordability challenges – the opposite of the hypothesized relationship.
Indeed, Vancouver has the lowest share of single-detached housing among urban areas in Canada, while Toronto is fourth-lowest.

Of course, that pattern exists not because single-detached zoning causes improved affordability. Rather, it’s because strong demand pressures tend to cause both denser housing patterns and higher prices.

Housing form is basically irrelevant to the affordability challenges in an urban area. That’s why Hong Kong and Manhattan are highly unaffordable, even with no single detached houses in sight. Similarly, paragons of “missing middle” housing, such as London and Stockholm, are also highly unaffordable.

The commonality between these expensive cities is very strong demand pressure, not housing form or zoning – and that’s the best indication of what’s driving prices up.

There are several peer-reviewed articles that document the connection between demand-side factors and housing prices in Toronto and Vancouver, particularly the role of foreign ownership and speculation. Yet that peer-reviewed research is dismissed or ignored by advocates of the supply narrative. In fact, the case for the supply narrative is so weak that, after several years of research in this field, I have yet to encounter a single academic peer-reviewed article which documents a substantial causal link between supply-side factors and housing unaffordability in Canada.
So why is the debate so evidence-averse? Because the narrative is useful to powerful people.

The supply narrative does two things. It helps stymie action on the demand-side, which might actually bring prices and rents down, while giving cover to governments who want to pretend to care about affordability for the middle class. And it is a useful weapon for developers seeking to gain various policy concessions, including rezonings from municipal governments, which deliver windfall land appreciation.

The vested interests behind the narrative are relentless, since there are billions in profit to be had. Why let pesky facts get in the way? Such interests, and their noisy Twitter allies, are trying to win the debate through sheer repetition.

However, housing affordability will suffer to the extent that policy makers either buy into the misdirection, or use the narrative to deflect public pressure to take substantive action. Sometimes, then, it’s helpful to point out that the emperor has no clothes.


Yes demand is very strong. What's the way Gordon wants to satiate the demand without increasing supply? Lowering immigration? No solutions actually laid out here of course.

Not noted is that we actually did implement an array of demand side measures such as as the foreign buyer tax and the speculation tax, which did cool prices (pre-pandemic). Were those not sufficient?

quote:

If anything, Canadian cities with the highest share of single-detached houses have the least intense affordability challenges – the opposite of the hypothesized relationship.

Wow you're telling me that random SFH dominated small towns with no industry are more affordable than Vancouver and Toronto, the only places where there has been any economic growth in Canada for the last several years? Remarkable. I wonder if there could be any other reason for this.

half cocaine
Jul 22, 2019


A rising tide lifts all boats so make sure you write your mp to remind them to work with your friendly developer!

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

sleep with the vicious posted:

I think like the posters who bought houses in the last couple of weeks, I'm resigned to this being unchanged. Not a single semi-mainstream Canadian figure (politician, business, columnist) even pretends to give lip-service, and the Canadian public certainly doesn't. My career trajectory would be much better in Toronto long-term so it's still probably worth moving for at least a try, but drat it is going to suck spending that much.

I think there's some progressive mayors out there that would love to get into creating public housing in a big way, but unfortunately these are the politicians that have the absolute weakest ability to do anything about housing.

Not public housing, but coincidentally Vancouver's mayor just threw this big policy on the table for debate and he even made a shiny website for it.

https://twitter.com/kennedystewart/status/1305616029364621313?s=20

Multi-units on a single Vancouver lot, with some restrictions on price to create some meagre middle class affordability?

some further details here.

https://twitter.com/fabulavancouver/status/1305620572605276160?s=20

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


It'd be good if Vancouver didn't have the lowest property tax in the entire of North America. Something the mayor is in fact capable of increasing.

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

qhat posted:

It'd be good if Vancouver didn't have the lowest property tax in the entire of North America. Something the mayor is in fact capable of increasing.

Lowest property tax rate. Which kinda matters when the like half of the land values in your city start at $3M. The rate would be a lot higher if typical houses were $300k.

He should raise property taxes, but he's just one voice on council and Vancouverites keep voting in centre-right people that aren't gonna raise taxes that much. (or let's be more clear, Vancouverites progressive or not aren't showing up to vote in the municipal election at all)

yippee cahier
Mar 28, 2005

The Russians built apartments.

Sassafras
Dec 24, 2004

by Athanatos

yippee cahier posted:

The Russians built apartments.

Have you no pride of ownership, sir?

Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

"That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."




Femtosecond posted:

I think there's some progressive mayors out there that would love to get into creating public housing in a big way, but unfortunately these are the politicians that have the absolute weakest ability to do anything about housing.

Not public housing, but coincidentally Vancouver's mayor just threw this big policy on the table for debate and he even made a shiny website for it.

https://twitter.com/kennedystewart/status/1305616029364621313?s=20

Multi-units on a single Vancouver lot, with some restrictions on price to create some meagre middle class affordability?

some further details here.

https://twitter.com/fabulavancouver/status/1305620572605276160?s=20

Unfortunately, one of the features of the Vienna model is that Vienna is considered its own province for the purposes of government. So all of the stuff run at the BC provincial level here -- public housing, healthcare, etc -- gets handled by the city there. Municipal governments have relatively very little budget or control.

Flater
Oct 20, 2006


Ask me about sucking Batman's dick
Am I missing something? Isn't this just going to encourage cramped little one-room box apartments even more?

half cocaine
Jul 22, 2019


Flater posted:

Am I missing something? Isn't this just going to encourage cramped little one-room box apartments even more?

How do you expect the developers and architects to make money if they aren't allowed to increase supply? What will they do instead?

Sassafras
Dec 24, 2004

by Athanatos
Is "Own a microhovel for JUST 80,000/year" a faux pas that will piss off the poverty set?

Flater
Oct 20, 2006


Ask me about sucking Batman's dick

half cocaine posted:

How do you expect the developers and architects to make money if they aren't allowed to increase supply? What will they do instead?

I also didn't see any talk of making sure the apartments are uniform in size and quality. Can't wait for them to turn two basement closets into defacto servants quarters

yippee cahier
Mar 28, 2005

Flater posted:

Am I missing something? Isn't this just going to encourage cramped little one-room box apartments even more?

No, no, you share on heating costs and exterior maintenance in an apartment. These are detached units.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Flater
Oct 20, 2006


Ask me about sucking Batman's dick

yippee cahier posted:

No, no, you share on heating costs and exterior maintenance in an apartment. These are detached units.

From the site:
"But Sarah wants to take advantage of Making HOME to change that. She hires a builder to redevelop her one big, empty home into four smaller homes. She keeps one of the units for herself, she sells two of the remaining market homes to a couple of young professionals, and she sells the guaranteed middle-income home to her daughter who makes $80,000 a year."

Are you sure about that? Sounds like it is talking about turning larger homes into attached/multi-dwelling structures to me.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply